Basically my Wednesday night GM is overpowering one of our players. In a saturday night game the player is a level 9 cleric, and he wanted her to bring her into his game. Basically she did and brought all the levels down, but she is still very powerful. Basically he has allowed her to keep her channel energy at 6d6 (note undead-heavy game) and her base attack at +6. Now note we are all level one. I decided to play a paladin, stone lord archetype to be specific in order to be good but not overpowered. Now, their are many powerful people, i.e a orc barbarian, drow rouge, human standard paladin, but when I brought this up he basically dismissed me saying its for game reasons. I run a monday night game and have allowed him to use my world for his setting (and is trying to change some things) so I think I would liek to know what is going on. My biggest fear is that he is going to up everything to her power level and thus get everyone else all killed, or she is going to do one channel energy and destroy all undead in the room. I'm also fearful of what will happen when we do reach level 10, if we do, will she be the equivilent of a level 19 or 20. He is also trying to change my map and lore of the world for his own benefit and I don't appreciate it. I spent about a month just drawing it up and getting the base information and races.
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No, she is much older then him and are not involved like that. She has provided him with a job though. She (and the orc) killed my first character off because my character was a drow. I understand it, but she hit which surprises me because she has no str and did like 4 or 5 damage with her mace and the orc finished me off. Also does anyone know how to optimize a paladin as I don't want to fall behind.
I already made my character, and hes a stonelord dwarf, so more focused on that would prob be for the best
Str 20
Dex-11
con-19
Int-13
Wis-17
Cha-15
1st level feat was power attack. Hp is at 14
Primary weapon - dwarven longhammer - 2d6, reach
Secondary- Dwarven waraxe- 1d10
Armor- scalemail- +5
where do you think i should go with this, prob going to pick up lunge and potions of enlarge.
Edit: Please note that she doesn't have her spells or her knowlage skills apparently, but in the night of her introduction, she was given about 12 flashbacks.
2 Parts here. Him using your world and the Cleric.
Uber Cleric
Giving the benefit of the doubt, it SOUNDS like she's a GM-NPC that he wants in for a specific plot point in the story and he doesn't want to play the char, instead giving it to (maybe) a new player either to ease them into the story, or (BEST CASE) because he plans to pull a Richard with the char later and is maybe figuring that's best a job left to an 'outsider' so it doesn't angst internal relationships. That's being pretty generous though. My money is he has the story revolving around this great and awesome hero and your the tag alongs.
It's a game that is supposed to be co-operative between the GM and each of the players. If you turned up to play monopoly and someone said "That's Sandy BTW... they're going to start with 100K instead of 2 because... well.. no reason." your reaction would be less than favourable, I'd imagine. While there is a slight difference in so far as the party is supposed to be working together (whereas Monolopy is competitive), but each player needs to feel like they are contributing to the game, not just being overshadowed by God-Smite Mc-Almighty over there.
Talk to the other players. Get a feel for what they are like over a couple of games. If they are feeling like they are being overshadowed as well and aren't having fun, talk to the GM. Tell him in those terms that "Hey... we're all feeling like we're along for the ride here rather than actually playing and contributing. That means we're not having fun. If we're not having fun, why are we playing?" From there, work towards a soln. If the cleric is supposed to go down in a blaze of glory at the chronicle end in 6 months.... SKIP!!!! He's not playing a game. He's telling you a story, and odds are you aren't going to have an impact on it anyway. Just tell me the story over a couple of nights and be done with it (incidentally, it might be an awesome story none the less). If he gets enervated to death by BBEG and explodes in a shower of 'Have a bunch of mythic levels because I was a godling and now I need you help find my bits to restore me' in 2 games and this is where the adventure REALLY starts.... Can you live with it for another 2 games? You might still be in the prologue.
Use of your world
Sorry to say it, but as soon as you let him GM in it, it's no longer your world. It's his. As a GM he has ultimate control over what happens in a world that he is GMing in. If he wants to have bring in an order of Catfolk cavaliers riding talking unicorns and pegasi that's his call as GM the world. That's not to say though that his world MUST be the same as yours. You can still have yours. Retcon the bits out you don't like and call it a parallel reality. Impress on anyone who plays in both groups that they ARE different realities and what happens in one doesn't necessarily happen in another. Hell, move the campaign to a different region of your world in your game so the names are different to help keep that disconnect in play. Ask him to refer to his world by a different name. If he gets narky and wants it to be your world... tell him the things that he's doing wrong according to what is panning out in your world. If he's willing to work with you on it, great... if not, start enforcing that disconnect sooner rather than later. Otherwise you'll be stuck with Hello Kitty riding My Little Pony in your world because that's what people have come to expect because of his.
Wait. So this new OP character is brought in and immediately goes to kill off your character? And the orc character joins her in killing it off? There should be a bit of leeway players give to other players with their characters. Immediately attacking 'because' you're character is a drow doesn't pass the smell test. Did your character do something to provoke? Why did the orc character attack you too?
My initial thought was that perhaps she was brought in temporarily as a high powered NPC that he wanted you guys to think was a typical player character, but with the rest of the information you've shared (and there's probably more information needed for a proper assessment), I've moved away from that idea and am now thinking it's just foolishness.
As for your stonelord. How did you get 20 str?
With just the information provided, "Where do I think you should go with this?" is out the door. Players characters killing other PCs isn't right in my books without a very good reason. At 1st level, I can't see as there would be enough history to make a good enough one.
Wait. So this new OP character is brought in and immediately goes to kill off your character? And the orc character joins her in killing it off? There should be a bit of leeway players give to other players with their characters. Immediately attacking 'because' you're character is a drow doesn't pass the smell test. Did your character do something to provoke? Why did the orc character attack you too?
My initial thought was that perhaps she was brought in temporarily as a high powered NPC that he wanted you guys to think was a typical player character, but with the rest of the information you've shared (and there's probably more information needed for a proper assessment), I've moved away from that idea and am now thinking it's just foolishness.
As for your stonelord. How did you get 20 str?
With just the information provided, "Where do I think you should go with this?" is out the door. Players characters killing other PCs isn't right in my books without a very good reason. At 1st level, I can't see as there would be enough history to make a good enough one.
Instead of 18's he makes them 20's. And no, she is permanent. I enjoy her company, as she is a good player and GM. And they saw me praying to a more or less evil god, although I am CN, and I understand why she did it. Although the other paladins detect counted me as not evil. Now I am playing a paladin to ensure that I can keep up and to stop from being killed off for religion. And I'm looking for builds, not for revenge, but to keep up with the onslaught that is to come, as I'm sure by 3 game sessions in she'll have her spells.
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Get out of that group, and get a better one. If it happens naturally (through deaths etc), a few levels difference isn't a big problem, but giving a new player a level 9 character when everybody else is level 1 is ridiculous. I can't imagine a justification for that. If she then proceeds to kill your character (simply for being a Drow?), then it really starts to sound like a toxic group, or at least one or two toxic players.
Discuss it with the group, or at least with the other players. Do you want to play in this group, or maybe start a new group without them?
Farmers pray to "more or less" Evil gods. Citizens of great cities pray to evil gods, legally (see Cheliax in Golarion). Should the party go kill them off too? Stand outside the churches to evil gods in the city and smite any who enter? No possible repercussions there. You were a rogue. Roguish gods tend to be Evil. CN isn't necessarily a team friendly alignment, but still it shouldn't matter, unless you were betraying the party (and, at 1st level, it's way too soon for such a swerve to even have germinated from a seedling). And why would an orc barbarian care who your character was praying to?
Well the goddess loth is a bit far. The barbarian is also very religios as part of his back story.
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You should politely announce to your GM that everyone should be equal or some are more equal then others?
Good players also don't kill each other after they risked their life in combat. After such intense periods of being with each other. Killing someone over religion is 0 excuse both as a player or person. It seems just coldblooded PvP to me.
This DM does not sound like he's very good at his job. Very odd house rules at work.
I am not sure what can really be done. Making an effective character doesn't look like it would address the root problem. Hard to tell since the social dynamics here are far from clear.
Why'd he allow this person to stay at 9th level (or whatever)? And if so, why not have everyone start at the same level then? I'm a little unclear on her power level actually. No spells at all? What does she have that a 9th level cleric has? What doesn't she have? Does she have magic items?
I wouldn't fret over him changing the background of the world. That's a normal thing for a GM to do and well within his rights. More concerning is the favortism
Well she has the channel energy, the base attack bonus, the saves, everything except the spells and skill ranks I think. She may not have the feats.
None of this would fly in our group...
Strange, clearly your GM is going through one of those phases. Talk to him. If he won't relent then you only have two courses. One, sit this game out. Or two, play the game and just politely point out when the overpowered abilities get used how unfair it was. If you go with two then don't stop the game by arguing. Point out the obvious and then keep playing. This is the rub the dog's nose in it approach. Hopefully the GM or super player will get uncomfortable and not ever do this again.
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This issue so badly fails the smell test it's stinking over in product discussion!
Really man think this through.What if YOU had shown up for that first game and everyone else was 1st level and you got to play a 9th Drow (whatever)without some of your stuff.Then YOU killed off that Cleric and her buddy because they didn't follow Loth. How do you think that would have gone down? Would it have been ok because...you were acting in character right? Wouldn't you have felt like a turd and maybe,oh I don't know WORKED with everyone so you could all have fun?
The fact that the other player ran with it and killed off your character and even had someone join in just goes to prove...you guys are NOT gaming to have a good time and role play.
Nope,these people have inside issues that you are oblivious to and you simply exist to contrast their awesomeness.
Dude get out of that crappy game now! Do not pass go,do not collect $200 because it's a frigging Trap!
You were a CN drow praying to the CE Lloth, the goddess of the drow... It's like praying to your mom. You weren't a cleric, so it's not like she'd respond with power, spells, or unspeakable evil. It could have been something you were raised with. A habit you didn't dare stop (on the off chance she was listening to you and smites you), but also didn't really feel.
In this homebrew world of yours, is Lloth the main big bad goddess around? Are the Drow known as major enemies? If the answer is no to either of these, there's a problem. Did the cleric make her knowledge (religion) check to know it was the paraphernalia of Lloth you were using or that even her name equates to a big bad evil goddess?
Regardless, there should be more 'transgressions' before an outright kill of one PC by another should be sanctioned, particularly in a good aligned group (although we can leave alignment out of the discussion since it still smells bad). It's Pathfinder, not Paranoia. Did the murder ('cause that's what it was) of your character occur in the city? Where are the lawful authorities to investigate, catch and prosecute the criminals? Did the Paladin just stand by and watch? Two people just murdered a fellow party member because of a religious preference AFTER having not detected as evil.
Ugh. In any case, I commend you for wanting to try and stick to it, and I hope that whatever the motivations behind the GM's (and the player's) actions are/were, that everything works out in the end. I'm just not that patient, I guess. I don't even see how anyone would have fun playing the OP character in the group, or not even realize the poor dynamic it could cause.
Ignoring all I said before, regarding your new character and party composition, you'll be pretty combat heavy with two paladins and a barbarian. And, it seems, no spellcasters until the uber-cleric gets her spells. Is this a low-magic world or something? You might consider playing a caster of some kind to fill that gap (although it's not necessary, just a thought).
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You should politely announce to your GM that everyone should be equal or some are more equal then others?The pigs are walking! The pigs are walking!
I have not read this in a while.. :)
Now for a more serious post...I would leave the game.
BTW Good Role players don't (stay in character) no matter what.Good Role players will change and alter their character for both the good of the gaming group as well as their evolving character portrait.
This is a game and we work and role play in the best way for everyone to have fun. Role playing isn't a crutch to be dragged out when we want to justify something.(Also you might have taken the rest of the groups character choices to mind when creating your character,but I assume you didn't know what everyone else was playing,though at least you were not Evil.
Her character could have recognized the goodness deep down in your drow and worked with you both in character and out of character to redeem your character as well as play well with the rest of the group.
I'm not saying you wouldn't have had to make some hard choices and changed as well,Heck im not even saying it would have worked out. Inner party conflict can be a good thing!
That is not what happened though.That player and the DM ended your fun without much thought or consequence.
She had the POWER and the desire and so got it done with the DM's backing.
I can pretty much guarantee your new shinny Paladin will also either tow the line doing whatever she thinks best or die. She has already killed a Neutral person you really think she is going to shy away from killing off a Fanatic who is standing in the way of what she thinks is right or needs to be done?
You think that DM will stop her or even cause her to face consequences?
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There is no logical or good reason that I can think of for a PC to be playing a 9th (11th?!?) level character when you are all 1st level, period. Even if he were having her play an NPC for a couple of game sessions, that is unfair to her, since she could be playing her own character and developing chemistry with the rest of the group.
I have no clue as to your GM's motivations for doing so, but I do know this- as long as she plays this character, you all are her first graders on a school field trip and she is your babysitter. Those are the roles being forced upon you. Unless you particuarly enjoyed being a first grader and would like to do so again, why would you want to continue to play in this game?
Which also is not a bad argument to offer him if you decide to discuss the issue. Don't expect to get very far, since he obviously thought this would be a good idea in the first place, but hey, you never know.
Sounds like it might be time to bow out of this game and either form your own or wait for this one to run its course. If you decide to stay in the game, definitely start calling the cleric "Mom".
I'll see if I can talk to him.
This doesn't sound like a fun game to play in.
My advice: if these things are spoiling your fun, don't play in it.
drop wisdom a bit and get at least 16 charisma, it gives you bonus to all saving throws. doubt you need Lunge if you are using a reach weapon already,
He's a Stonelord Paladin so he doesn't have Divine Grace (Cha to saves), spells or Smite Evil. The only thing Cha does for him is give him uses of Lay on Hands.
Also I feel for you TC. I played in a game briefly where we were level 1 and followed around by another player who was supposed to have been some military leader of our town. The guy was like level 6 and played by a dumbass >_<. If your game is going that way I'd politely bow out.
As for him messing with the setting, I can see your concern if you guys are trying to do two games that are intricately tied together, but if not let him do his thing and you do yours.
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Wow, after a re-read, my last post came off sounding a bit harsh!
Basically, you all are being railroaded down whatever path the cleric takes, and have little say in what the group does. I used to play with a GM who railroaded us everywhere, until a bunch of us finally lost patience and left to form our own gorup. Guess I have a few strong feelings about that, so sorry for the severity there Jimmy. I would suggest that you do something about your situation to get it to change however, either talking, bringing it up out of game to discuss, or something. You are probably not alone in disliking the situation.
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So let me get this straight. The only reason you are now playing a Paladin is because you don't want the other players to kill your guy off again? So you aren't getting to play the character you actually wanted to play?
Gadzooks, I once played a gnome rogue who played a nasty prank on a homicidal psychopathic ninja-barbarian, and even I didn't get killed! He'd been turned to stone, and we all had to wait a full day so that the party's cleric could learn stone to flesh the next day. I pickpocketted some lipstick and used some handkerchiefs and even a hat made of folded-up paper to make the angry macho killer look like a poofy pirate. Good thing he was dumb as a stick and rolled low, cuz he believed my explanation of "Gremlins. They came in the night. Sorry I fell asleep on the guard." We all had quite the good laugh.
Dude, I think they may have had other reasons for killing you off. Are you pissing folks off in the campaign you GM? That would explain the other guy "borrowing" your campaign. Wait and see if they stop showing up for when you are the GM. They like your world (well, with some changes to it, yes?), but not you running it?
Or maybe it's just the girl, and she thought it would be fun to kill you off, and the GM felt he had to go along with it, what with the "got him a job" and all.
In any event, you shouldn't have to limit your roleplay choices just to appease a bunch of twits. Sorry, but that's what they are. Get another group. Better yet, try PFS, as this kinda crap would not be tolerated.
So let me get this straight. The only reason you are now playing a Paladin is because you don't want the other players to kill your guy off again? So you aren't getting to play the character you actually wanted to play?
Gadzooks, I once played a gnome rogue who played a nasty prank on a homicidal psychopathic ninja-barbarian, and even I didn't get killed! He'd been turned to stone, and we all had to wait a full day so that the party's cleric could learn stone to flesh the next day. I pickpocketted some lipstick and used some handkerchiefs and even a hat made of folded-up paper to make the angry macho killer look like a poofy pirate. Good thing he was dumb as a stick and rolled low, cuz he believed my explanation of "Gremlins. They came in the night. Sorry I fell asleep on the guard." We all had quite the good laugh.
Dude, I think they may have had other reasons for killing you off. Are you pissing folks off in the campaign you GM? That would explain the other guy "borrowing" your campaign. Wait and see if they stop showing up for when you are the GM. They like your world (well, with some changes to it, yes?), but not you running it?
Or maybe it's just the girl, and she thought it would be fun to kill you off, and the GM felt he had to go along with it, what with the "got him a job" and all.
In any event, you shouldn't have to limit your roleplay choices just to appease a bunch of twits. Sorry, but that's what they are. Get another group. Better yet, try PFS, as this kinda crap would not be tolerated.
I do like the idea of playing a paladin as I have yet to actually do it and think it would be fun, but the whole killing of my character had to do with my character praying to loth after having seen an aspect of her minutes earlier. A drider came down and attempted to trick me into killing the cleric, and I failed a will, and after exiting the church (of a good god) I was throne back in by the barbarian. When she did a channel energy I was brought back to positive and awoken without the urge to kill her (which by the way my character never stated he was going to do, nor made any actions that made him seem suspicious) and noticed that a drider was a male and a betrayer of loth and I preceded to kill it after the others attacked. I killed it with a magic arrow from earlier. After this happened I was hit by the clerics mace (which is when I and the GM noticed the high BAB, but he told me not to worry about it) and beheaded by the orc barbarian. As for the group I run a game with both of them and several others in it (I recently made a thread about it called big groups = big problems) and they seem to like the game. The Gm is playing the inquisitor (now an alchemist) and she is playing the Wayveran Sorc/cleric. I don't usually have a problem with either of them.
Now for a more serious post...I would leave the game.
Yep.
Time to go.
So you guys have a heal bot trailing you guys around draining your guys exp? Killed a lloth follower because its evil? QQ more please.
But yeah a level 9 heal bot seems much. Bring her down to 3 or 4 imo. She's obviously a key player in this gms world and wants her to be, but 9 seems way to high. If the pcs weren't lvl 1 and where lvl 6 that's cool. Can up the cr for the party, and how many players are there? 3-4? If 4, can always just have the high lvl level at the gms choice, and not effect the pcs leveling, or have it gain exp and lvl whenever, use the fast exp till they are on par with the cleric even then go to normal exp after?
I want a heal bot to carry me :'-(
ALL HANDS TO THE ESCAPE PODS! ABANDON GAME!
Actually more like 7 players. I'll list what I remember the classes as.
Drow Rouge (not me, friend who I decided to work with, he is not dead)
Orc Barbarian #1 -the one who killed me
Orc Barbarian #2 -usually plays rangers
Halfling rouge (the clerics original character, GM told her to scrap it)
Drown ranger (now dwarf paladin, was killed by orc 1 and cleric)
Human Paladin (confirmed I wasn't evil, but had no qualms for killing me)
Elf monk (wasn't there when I was killed, at botcon, but good friend who may have tried to stop it)
This is the party composition and I hope I didn't mess up with what kind of character to make based on what there is.
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Am I the only one who's confused as to how the paladin still has his powers?
No you aren't the only one Thymus... this is automatic fall territory.
Just roll with it, might get something epic out of it? I never, in all honesty, bad mouth a gm for doing something creative. Usually get a cool rp scene, with awesome perks. Give it a try, if this cleric is really just to op talk to the gm with others that feel the same way that you feel. I has a feeling its not going to be as op as you think. And omg 7 people....my groups usually 4-5 but every now and then we group up with another friend and have like 7-9 people and get a cool pc death(s) :9.
But yeah get a few other players see there thoughts talk to gm, etc whatever tickles your fancy.
Is this player the GM's girlfriend or crush by chance?
It's sounds just plain unfair to me. If he doesn't won't to bring her down then bump up your character. Don't ask nicely, just announce that it's happening, "I'm giving my character +6 base attack".
Do this, do this, lets know how that turns out please.
On your game world issue - it is simple. If you can't accept changes that others will introduce that will impact the game world, don't share. However you did share. What now? Tell the other DM that any changes he makes are NOT canon for your world and that the two campaigns, while geographically and culturally similar, represent two different realities and never the two shall meet (meaning characters in one campaign cannot be used in the other campaign).
As for the power bump allowing a 9th level character to be re-specced as a 1st level character but allowing to keep certain higher level class features - the answer is not NO. Its HELL NO. It is blatantly unfair to the other 1st level characters and I don't care the story reasons or justifications behind it. That only washes with me if the 'special' character is a NPC, not a PC and the character is around for a short time for a story arc and then goes away or dies to contribute to the story.
In short, you need to call shennigans on this and the DM either needs to explain what is going on and why to you as the co-owner of the game world or your cooperation stops. Whether it means you quit the campaign, lead a revolt or cashier the current GM and start afresh is up to your group.
Fill a sock with quarters, and then have a friendly talk with your DM.
Serious DM FAIL here....
... Talk to the other members of your group... come up with a consensus and explain to the GM that this is inexcusable...
Do not make threats... but if you are not having FUN (the most important thing about this GAME is to HAVE FUN) then tell the GM you will be retiring from the game..
Best thing is to probably show him this thread...
Infact show everyone this thread...
I do kinda feel bad for the GM. I mean he is wrong as all get out... but dang... GMing for your boss. Not in a million years. This game can have a bad habit of causing hurt feelings. I wouldn't risk that with the guy/girl writing my checks.