Best Fifth Party Member

[caith]

Pretty straightforward question.

You have your Fighter, Cleric, Wizard, and Rogue covered. You have 5 players. Who is your 5th man(or woman), and why?

[Lilith]

Bard.

[Hzardus]

master summoner to make fun of them all

[Lincoln Hills]

Bards and Cavaliers are very different in most regards, but they have this in common: the bigger the party, the more people their abilities are helping. The Cavalier's better if the Cleric and Rogue intend to be ranged types, while the Bard fits better if melee is already well-covered.

[Kthulhu]

I would generally suggest another fighter type (ie, fighter, barbarian, etc).

[Rynjin]

Bard.

Bards make everything better.

[Darigaaz the Igniter]

Druid

[Grimmy]

Bard

[Makhno]

A second cleric.

But make it a different cleric build. Different domains, different focus (first one's a support cleric? make the second an archer cleric, etc.).

But yeah, more cleric = more better.

[Tursic]

Magus

Can fight on the front lines, Helps to have someone who will want to be casting spells like haste. Lets the full casters use their spells for other things. Can add a bit of healing with infernal healing if it is really needed.

[Pan]

Everything goes better with Bard.

[Mudfoot]

Any half-caster. Magus, inquisitor, bard, maybe ranger or paladin. Or druid. Essentially you need someone who can step in when one of the other 4 is down, needs help or picked the wrong spell. You might get away with a multiclasser but multiclassed casters are generally weak.

Although there's the camp who would claim that a fighter N / cleric M is better than a fighter N+M for all (N,M).

[Gerald]

I like witches as 5th party members. At low levels, it's a bit tougher, but after a couple levels, the debuffing, and extra spells to take care of both wizard and cleric casting is great.

[Thalin]

First, how did the Rogue sneak in the party (see what I did there?)

Second, you can do well with a bard, a second mage specialist, or a front line that does not specialize the same as the other front line (CMB if you have your damage-tank, damage-tank if you have a CMB).

The actual "best" is a summoner, since they get the buff spells like a bard (often earlier) AND bring in a second tank setup. But summoners would also be the best rogue and fighter; they're a little like cheating.

[Avatar-1]

Gunslinger.

You haven't defined the criteria for "best", but the idea between those 4 classes is that they each do something that the others either can't do or don't do as well.

The bard doesn't really make sense because he's either or both an arcane caster (like the wizard) and a light combatant (like the rogue).

You need something wildly different to make the 5th.

[GoldEdition42]

Bard vote again. But a fairly close second is the Inquisitor. Third is, as mentioned, a Cleric with different Domains.

Cheers, Ed

[Rynjin]

Avatar-1 wrote:

Gunslinger.

You haven't defined the criteria for "best", but the idea between those 4 classes is that they each do something that the others either can't do or don't do as well.

The bard doesn't really make sense because he's either or both an arcane caster (like the wizard) and a light combatant (like the rogue).

You need something wildly different to make the 5th.

He's an Uber-Buffer. He is a natural face and knowledge monkey, with more potential skill points through class abilities than any other class in the game.

TBQH the set-up should be "Fighter, Cleric, Wizard, Bard" (though I'd usually take a Barbarian over a Fighter too...) and then who is the 5th party member because Bards make Rogues cry.

[Lemmy]

I agree with Rynjin...

Honestly, I'd make Ranger (or Barbarian, or Paladin), Cleric, Wizard, Bard (or Inquisitor), then... as a 5th member...

I dunno... It depends a lot on the specialization of each character. Inquisitor, Ranger or Witch can be pretty awesome.

I think I'd go with a ranged character. Maybe an archer Ranger or Zen Archer Monk...

A Druid would make a damn good addition too.

[Avatar-1]

Rynjin, your description is exactly the same as that of a rogue, except for uber buffer (and both the cleric and wizard do that).

If you want to talk about Barbarian, Oracle, Summoner, Bard, I think you've going way off track.

[Nicos]

Kthulhu wrote:

I would generally suggest another fighter type (ie, fighter, barbarian, etc).

I agree here but I would prefer a magus or a heavily focused battle cleric(or druid).

[Rynjin]

Yes. He fills the same role as the Rogue, but better. That was the point I was trying to make.

[FanaticRat]

Bard.

The party needs theme music.

[Coriat]

Bard is the clear winner of 5th man if the party doesn't have a bard already.

Given a four man party that already includes a bard in place of a rogue... master summoner as the fifth, for further multiplication of the bard's abilities upon a horde of summoned critters.

[Silent Saturn]

Is it necessary to have both melee and ranged damage covered? If yes, then I'd say Ranger or Gunslinger (if the Fighter is melee) or Barbarian or Cavalier (if the Fighter is an archer).

I do love me some half-casters, bards in particular, but it seems to me like there may be a role not yet fulfilled.

[Rynjin]

Bards make decent archers, especially with Bardic Performance up giving them effective Full BaB. I was assuming the Fighter was your standard Full Plate/Greatsword type.

[TarkXT]

Depends on what we're talking about in terms of Wizard, Fighter, Cleric Rogue.

A bard is kind of a silly choice if the Rogue plays like a face and the cleric is an Evangelist.

A druid might be a touch redundant if the cleric and wizard are summoning focused guys and the cleric worships a nature diety.

So the answer is "what does the party need?"

[Cranefist]

Kthulhu wrote:

I would generally suggest another fighter type (ie, fighter, barbarian, etc).

I agree. Two guys in the front, ready to deal damage and block makes everything so much easier for casters and flankers.

[memorax]

A bard, Paladin or Cleric.

[lemeres]

Inquisitor.

Besides the fact that they are like a bard that isn't so much of a....... BBBAAAAARRDD *look of disgust*, they have decent at will powers and bonuses to several skills important for combat. Combine that with decent combat abilities, especially combining stern gaze and cornugan smash, and they can both do damage and help shape the battle.

[Painful Bugger]

Commoner with muleback cords and permancy ant haul.

[Mathius]

Add what ever it is that adds +8 str to carrying capacity and permanent enlarge person.

[Silent Saturn]

Also, does the Cleric Cure or Inflict? If it's an evil cleric, you're going to need a healer whose powers aren't tied to his alignment. Druid or Bard would be best for this, but an Alchemist could do it too.

Or another good cleric, but having two divine casters of different deities makes things tricky, as does having two of anything with radically different alignments.

[Renegadeshepherd]

caith wrote:

Pretty straightforward question.

You have your Fighter, Cleric, Wizard, and Rogue covered. You have 5 players. Who is your 5th man(or woman), and why?

assuming that party I would get an inquisitor as he would make the best face, is as accurate or damaging as a fair of amount of fighter builds (though not as many attacks), has some spellcasting, and has comparable skills to rogue without suffering from MAD. Inquisitor can adjust to any situation with any group on the fly and that is what the 5th man is about more than anything else.

Now if u asked me that if skill monkey, face, caster, and tank are covered my answer would change. In that case master summoner would undoubtedly be the best since the best thing you can do in the game is get more bodies OR attacks and the master summoner is doing all that and more.

Honorable mention is the magus in both cases as he is ALWAYS solid and arguably has the highest nova potential of any class. Also he like the inquisitor can have great flexibility while being almost single-minded on his stats.

[Der Origami Mann]

caith wrote:

You have your Fighter, Cleric, Wizard, and Rogue covered. You have 5 players. Who is your 5th man(or woman), and why?

Which Level(s)!? -> Lvl 1-5 / Lvl 1-20 / Lvl 10-x / ...

Which classes / multiclasses? -> Core , APG, ...
Which campaigne type/style?

• hack and slash / dungeon crawl campaign
  -> Barbarian --> Damage Dealer / Tank
  -> Rage-Prophet (Life/Battle) --> Damage Dealer + Healer
  -> Bard --> Buffer + Healer
  
• wargame campaign / military and political activities
  -> Paladin --> Military & Polical
  -> Bard --> Political
  
• detective campaign
  -> Bard

[Kyras Ausks]

switch hitter. ei bard, alchemist, witch, hell most the class in the APG

[Petty Alchemy]

I'd replace the Rogue with the Bard, then consider a 5th man from there. Probably another multipurpose class with 3/4 BAB and spells to 6th like Magus or Inquisitor.

[Renegadeshepherd]

Petty Alchemy wrote:

I'd replace the Rogue with the Bard, then consider a 5th man from there. Probably another multipurpose class with 3/4 BAB and spells to 6th like Magus or Inquisitor.

second that.

[strayshift]

Makhno wrote:

A second cleric.

But make it a different cleric build. Different domains, different focus (first one's a support cleric? make the second an archer cleric, etc.).

But yeah, more cleric = more better.

Concur with this, different but complimentary domains, offensive capabilities, etc.

I'd also choose Bard or Trapper Ranger over a Rogue.

[Craig Frankum]

Fighter is the obvious battle tank; Cleric is your heal-bot; Wizard is your battlefield controller; and Rogue is your ambusher...

I would have to say a solid fifth character would be a ranged Ranger

[CWheezy]

Another wizard so you can double break the game?

[Kolokotroni]

Define 'best'. Because my usual answer would be, you have your bases covered, do something you think will be the most fun. If best means the most able to take on a variety of encounters, I'd say summoner or druid, because they are probably the most flexible of the classes and can contribute to almost any situation, while having more staying power in terms of encounters per day then pure casters like the cleric or wizard.

[Makhno]

Craig Frankum wrote:

Fighter is the obvious battle tank; Cleric is your heal-bot; Wizard is your battlefield controller; and Rogue is your ambusher...

I would have to say a solid fifth character would be a ranged Ranger

If the cleric is a heal-bot then you're doing it completely wrong. The fifth PC should thus be another cleric, but a good one this time, to show the first cleric how to play his class.

[darth_borehd]

Inquisitor

They can be secondary healers and they have good combat abilities.

[Chengar Qordath]

I'll thrown another vote in for any of the 2/3 caster classes (Alchemist, Bard, Inquisitor, Magus). All of them do nicely at fitting into a party that already has all the basic roles covered.

[Tholomyes]

Bard is the obvious pick, but honestly they can replace rogues pretty easily, so as for a 5th party member given that, I'd say druid, or maybe a spontaneous caster class.

[darth_borehd]

You know, I would also recommend barbarian. They are excellent tanks that will the wizard and cleric to concentrate on spells while the rogue moves in for sneak attacks.

[KenderKin]

The a%$%~&$!

[Atarlost]

If this is a real party you're considering a character for I'd consider this an opportunity to play a sorcerer without being dragged down by expectations of doing a wizard's job. And see if you can use words of power.

If this is a thought experiment then presumably everyone's generic and bard is the best addition.

If you want to talk about the generic party the bard has the rogue's slot. Bards don't have as well defined a combat position since inspire courage doesn't suck at archery by requiring flanking and bards are potentially one of the tankier classes in PF at mid-levels thanks to the combination of armor, shield, and miss chance. That makes it harder to determine whether slot 5 should be front or back line.

My first inclination is to say inquisitor. Inquisitors can be good at either archery or melee and while there's skill overlap with the bard that's not entirely a bad thing. Monster Knowledge can free up the bard to use an archetype that loses bardic knowledge or just put his skill points elsewhere and aid another and two scouts means a higher likelihood of survival when an enemy inevitably smells them. If the bard can find room in his build stealth synergy and lookout might even be worth having. Having an inquisitor also means a reduced chance of everyone who can heal being unconscious and can probably afford to carry some of the emergency condition removal spells so the cleric can afford to memorize more generally useful spells.

[Tindertwig&Dirtbag]

Inquisitor or Paladin, depending on the other 4's specialties.

[Loup Blanc]

Always a bard. Every time. They make everyone else look good, A) by buffing, B) by debuffing the enemy, and C) by not being quite as competent at combat, offense magic, or defense magic as others. Not to say that they can't be good at these things, just that they usually aren't.

They might make the rogue cry, but the rogue has sneak attack and better combat ability with a little setup.

Seconding the theme music plan as well. And we all know that bards tend to come with endless copies of themselves, so they're virtually immortal.