Mystic Sword Master
The Build is fully on line at level 10.
I am GM about half of the time. I see the positives of the system. Not having the full guide lines from the start does cause some problems, even if it is understandable.
The thing about uncommon options, is that by their very nature they are not always an option. I plan on not buying books that have a lot of uncommon stuff unless I plan to run a game around what is in it.
It is not fun to finally find a game, just to find out that you have to redo a character build you had been looking forward running because the DM does not let options in the game from books pass the Advance Players Guide. Made me feel like I wasted money on buying the other Pathfinder books, when you cannot use what is in them.
The main problem I have with the rarity system is how it is packaged. The uncommon options should be in books for GMs, not general player books. I do not want to buy a book targeted at me as a player just to find out that I may not be able to use it. It feels like I have been cheated. I hope they keep the uncommon stuff to GM targeted books.
I like the “Tome of Battle”. I used it with Pathfinder and had it as a source book for all of my home games. None of my players used it. A Pathfinder fighter comes in at a little stronger than the warblade with the fighter be being less complex.
You can do a lot of the things from ToB in PF2. Make an attack targeting touch AC, the monk can do this at level 8. Move across water. Both the monk and the rogue can do this. Run up walls. The rogue can do this. Move and still hit hard. Everyone can do this with how magic weapons work. Move two times in a round and still attack. Everyone one can do this now with the three actions a turn. Move and get two attack rolls.
I would guess that you can do at least 20% of the things listed in ToB in PF2, and more is likely coming in the future. Given this I do think they did hit the casters with the nurf bat a few too many times. I was one of the ones that thought the casters needed a bit of nurfing, and the martials could use a boost.
The things I think should be given back to the casters.
1. Quality of Life spells. They did not hurt game balance.
2. The duration of many spells needs to be increased. This could be done by being able to heighten spells to increase duration like is done with the jump spell.1 Minute-> 5 minute-> 30 minute-> 1 hour-> 8 hour->1 day. Each boost in duration only increasing the duration. Each step up takes another level higher spell. I do not think it would be over powered to use a 6th level spell slot to get 1st level spell effect all day.
3. Decrease casting time on some spells. Mending is a good example, it is possible to do repairs much more quickly with the “quick repair” feat. The 1 hour casting time is not reasonable.
4. Decrease the casting time of at least some of the attack cantrips to one action. If the cantrip is doing less damage than a weapon attack and requires an attack roll I do not see what would be unbalanced with letting a caster cast more than one. Just add on the multiple attack penalty and it is unlikely to cause a problem.
Flying Kick is two action to use.
You are better off taking powerful leap if you have a speed of 30 or more. At least at low levels. At higher levels I could see retraining Powerful leap to quick jump.
1. Leap is one action.
1. Long jump is two actions.
The higher your Athletics the better Quick jump is, but you need a very high athletics bonus to hit the higher DCs.
Why 65% feels bad.
Most players have went to school for 12 plus years and you are told somethings about what is good, what is average, and what is bad. We know these marks as grades. What the percentage range of each letter changes from school to school, so I am going to with the simplest and the nice I
A 90% plus this is great.
For my bachelors program you were required to have at the least a B average in your main field of study. And you had to have at least C in all courses for your main field of study. You are considered an expert
So when you say the Fighter is the best when it comes to weapons and thus at landing hits with them 65% feels like a ripe off. That first attack is a D, a barley passing grade and if this is your area of expertise not acceptable. I feel the same for fully invested skills. I have had it drilled into my head for years that 65% is a D and a poor showing, it is passing but not acceptable.
If the fighter is the best class when it comes to using a weapon they should at the very least be able hit 80% of time with their best attack. For other martial classes being average 70% a C is fine.
I would be alright if not happy if the max would be 80% on the first attack for the fighter. That would place a non-optimized fighter at 70%-75%. Which is where I think the ranger, monk, and barbarian should be. This would put your first attack at 80%, second attack at 55% and third attack at 30%.
If you need to increase creature HP and/or increase a critical to be 15 over the AC instead of 10 over. Or you could add a class feat like sure strike that could add a +2 circumstance bonus to the attack.
There is a reason that I rarely used power attack in PF1 and it was the minus to attack.
I hope this explanation explains why I and most likely others feel that 65% success is too low for something you are supposed to be the best at.
Light steel shields have hardness 5. They have light bulk, so you can have a lot of them. I had a fighter on his third light steel shield in one fight in the play test. Free action to drop broken shield, action to get new shield, action to raise new shield, and an action to attack with long sword. My fighter took 5 crits that fight and thanks to healing and the shields he did not drop. So it works at level one. Do not know about the higher levels but I think not. Need a feat or skill feat to boost the hardness to meet increasing damage without increasing the cost of shields to much. The magic shields will not work for the style I used at higher levels.
They said they were mostly doing a way with feat trees.I like the ideal of turning some of the feats chains into scaling feats.
This would work for a lot of the fighter feats:
For doing away with feat trees, that is a lot of feat trees the fighter still has. Both the Dueling Parry and the Twin Parry trees have 4 feats. That is a lot of class feats to do one trick well.
Vesting only last a day. That rule is for switch in the same day.
A lot of the problems with spells could be fixed by just increasing how long they last. The one minute limit does not make sense. I understand why they did it from a balance stand point, but I think they hit the spell casters one too many times with the nerf bat.
In PF1 I played a martial/caster. Magus 8/weapon master 3/Elditch Knight 9. I thought the casters where over the top, and the martials needed a boost. I wish they had boost the martial a bit more instead of nerfing the casters so hard.
If you could increase how long a spell lasted by casting it in a higher level slot that would help a lot.
Example: Unseen Servant
The spells last longer by using a higher level spell slot. A feat that would let you increase duration by heightening the spell would help a lot.
The caster has their own staff. The charges do not go bad. A level 3 staff of healing has three charges. The higher the level of the staff the more charges.The caster can attune a different staff each day during down time.
This is a work around to a problem in the system. Would use the heal skill instead but as it is now this bad option is the best without forcing a player into playing a healing cleric.
Fighter/Rogue. Needed some more healing in the party. Use Assurance to use the Trick Magic Item feat to use low level staff of healing. Expert lets you use level 3 staff of healing, Master lets you use level 7 staff of healing and legendary lets you use a level 11 staff of healing. A caster can charge the staff during down time. Like I said a corner case.
Assurance feat does have a use. If you take a skill to Master or legendary that keys off a dump stat it is useful. My stats at level 20 without stat boosting items are 22, 19, 18, 18, 16, and 12. Listed from highest to lowest. A legendary skill for the dump stat would have only a +24, and only a plus +19 at level 15.
Assurance makes you not bad at a skill would be bad at other wise. This feat would be alright if it was not in the core rules and it was clear that it was to be used to make skills you would be bad at or alright.
This kind of corner case feat is not a good fit for the core rule book I think. The effect needs another name. The name is miss leading as the feat is not.
You could use a scaling DC. DC 5 heals 1d8, DC 10 heals 2d8, DC 15 heals 3d8, DC 20 heals 4d8, DC 25 heals 5d8, DC 30 heals 6d8, DC 35 heals 7d8, DC 40 heals 8d8, and DC 45 heals 9d8.
Proficiency cound determine the size of the dice. Trained d4, Expert d6, Master d8, and Legendary d10.
Limit the use per a character base on either the medics skill level: Wisdom mod + proficiency mod.
Limit the use per a character based Con mod. Maybe 3+con mod.
Non-magic healing needs a boost. As is you require a magical healer from level one, most likely it needs to be a cleric as the other magical healers fall short.
30sp would be at worst 2 months work. The thing is the worst is not normal, so I would say one to two weeks pay on the low end of average. Remember that the characters start off with 150sp and that a lot of NPC would likely have at least a third of that on hand in savings. If the elixirs do not go bad over time I would think most families would have one or two on hand.
A character can make lower level items faster than at level items. I would think that Minor elixir of life would be very common item. It could be made quickly and cheaply. A level 5 expert could make a batch of 4 at lowest cost in just 13 days. That is just a little over 3 days per a elixir and an average profit of just under 10sp a day.
As for the level of skill the NPC are likely to have? It takes only a few months to become trained at a job. It takes 3 to 5 years to get skilled at a job or expert level. Job listing have 10 to 15 years exp. to be the leader. So Master level. I would say most NPC are at least expert in one skill, now that skill is likely something like baking, farming, or fishing. But they can use that skill to earn coin.
I took the tactics listed to be a base line for me the GM to use. If you are using minute you can take two actions on average a round and not have a problem as long as only one is energy intensive. (stride, maintaining a spell, or other such actions)
What is searching in round action terms? One stride action, seek action left. Next round seek action forward, seek action right. Over a minute the character is moving at half speed, and covering the area. If you are moving faster than 100ft there are going to be some blind spots in your search. Exploration mode is just to make this simpler.
Have weapons out does not take up an action, on the other hand having your shield up ready to block an attack does. If you have a shield in one hand and a weapon in the other you do not have a free hand if needed.
Sneaking slows you down, to about half speed. Using the search and turning the stride into a sneak takes you down to 1/4th your speed. If your normal speed is 40 that means you are traveling at 100ft a minute. The party will be traveling at the speed of the slowest member. So a speedy elf with a speed of 40 could stealth and search at the same time and keep up with the dwarf fighter with a speed of 20 that is going at half speed to have their shield at the ready. A gnome with a speed of 20 could do so but would low the party down to 50ft per minute or 1/2 mile per hour.
If the wizard wants to keep a spell up while traveling the party will need to cycle. Travel 5 minute, rest 5 minute. This cuts your travel speed in half.
If the next town is 20 miles that is a one day journey for a character with a speed of 25. If you use a complex tactic it is going to slow you down. Turning a one day trip into a 2 or 4 day trip. That means needing supplies, setting up camp and the risk that comes with that. If the party is on a time table they may not be able to use a complex tactic or any tactics at all.
As for the fighter and other martial classes losing class feats that make them stand out, fill in the wholes with abilities from books like the 'Weapon Master Handbook'. Abilities like your blocking an attack with your weapon that would take you down, cutting arrows and even spells from the air would make great class feats for the fighter.
The blocking attacks with a weapon would be easy to do, just have the ability let you use a weapon instead of a shield to block. You already have abilities that let you parry with weapons, just make it an upgrade that any of the parry abilities can take.
They did not lie so much as form what they said some of us thought we were get something different than what we did. Example: One of the designers talked about how they planned to make it so base line was hitting 50% of the time, but fighter would be better than that.
The statement is true. I went and built a fighter then checked attack vs AC. My character was hitting round 75% on average. 55% on the low end and 80% of the high end with just the base build. Add in buffs and flaking and that is up to the 95% I was expecting. The reason I was expecting 95% base to hit on the first attack is that PF1 fighters can do this pass the low levels.
The game designers statement was true, but with the background in PF1 I had and they know I had the statement appeared to be misleading at first. Then I got to thinking, They have been working on this new system for months, so could have overlooked how it would appear to someone coming streight from PF1.
If they had just left the fighter weapon ability from PF1 it would have solved the problem. In this new flat system a +5 to attack would be big. The fighter would hit on their first attack, have a 75% chance to hit on the second attack and a 50% on the third. As it is now you are pushing to get to 75% on that first attack. Most of the other martial class are at around 65%. With a buff and flaking that goes up to 90%.
They sold the fighter being better at hitting than the other classes. The Fighter is better by about 10%.
I guess when they talked about making the fighter be better at hitting I was thinking 95% on that first attack, Like a PF1 fighter can do.
While the Rogue cannot do it the Rangers cat can. At the top of page 286 it list the cat's Advanced Maneuver: Cat Pounce: "CAT POUNCE You Stride and then Strike. If you were unseen, you remain unseen until after the attack." It is a single action ability.
Why did the Rogue not get this ability? The Ranger's cat gets it when the Ranger is level 12.
You have a few options on styles.
1. You can go all out on one style with a few feats left3
So 36 in class builds, plus 5 multi-class builds.
Some of the styles mix better than others. Mobile will work with most other styles. One weapon and Two-hand work with the right weapon. (Bastard Sword) One weapon and two-weapon styles work, just not much of a reason to do so, since they give most of the same kind of abilities.
The one weapon style mixes well with a multi-class caster.
A lot of the class feats have copies in multiple classes. Move the copies to the feat chapter, with tags to so they can be picked a class feats. I think this will take about half of the class feats out of the classes. Add a half as many new and unique class feats back in as where move and the book stays about the same size and the class have more cool stuff.
Since we can now upgrade items, one of the best armors in the game is Celestial Armor. It is common so very one can get it. There is no speed reduction or ACP. And it has some nice abilities built in. I plan to have my fighter in a chain shirt until I can find, buy, or craft a set of Celestial armor.
Many of the class feats are repeated. One fix would be to move these to the general feat section and add a tag like they did with skill feats. One tag for combat feats, and one for metamagic feats. Let martial class pick these combat feats as class feats, and let casters pick metamagic feats as class feats. This would free up room to add more options.
For the fighter that would be moving about 15 feat to the general section.
The spell selection with all of the spells that are now rare hurts. With these spell now just wasting page count for a lot of players. They should have saved the rare spells for later books, not eat up space in the core. If you are going to include a rare spells in core, there should be a way for a player to unlock it. Maybe a set of general feats that unlock the rare spells by school. You should not need to ask the GM to use stuff in core.
What abilities do you need for your character ideal? Classes are a lot more flexible now, and add in multi-classing and you are likely able to make it without the need of an archetype.
Most of my builds come online in stages in PF1. Fighter/Caster around level 3, Add key abilities and improved familiar at level 7 or 8, cut arrows out of the air at level 9 and cut spells out of the air at level 11. Teleporting and doing full attacks come on line at level 15. So it takes until level 15 to get my magical sword master who can cut anything attacking him out of the air and close with the enemy in the blink of an eye, with his side kick Drake the medic to come fully online. I know it is possible to do it sooner, but doing so add weakness to the build.
I used three classes and one archetype in this build, and at higher levels it adds a Prestige class for the last five levels. The character counts as a level 13 fighter, has BAB of 17, cast up 5th level spells with a caster level of 17. It takes information from five books to make this build.
I think I will be able recreate 60% of the character ideal with just the new core rule book, maybe more. I know I will be losing some power, but will be able to recreate the ideal of my character.
I will be able to be a sword master with a familiar, and magical abilities. I will be able form the sounds of it have medical abilities, close quickly with the enemy and attack. I can do most of this with just what they have already given us in the blogs. The only real thing I will be losing is some of the power of my character. But I think I will be able to get most of that back after I have had time to gain back system mastery.
• Wizards do not get as many spell now. They only get 3 spell of each level.
I would say 95% of my characters have been multi-class. The last time I had a character that did not multiclass I was playing 4th edition. PF2 does use the same model of multi-classing as 4th but it is not the same. 4th gave water downed class abilities in very small amounts, where as the PH2 is giving out the same abilities if in smaller amounts, that can be increased at the cost of more feats. I am very glad for that. You can get more out of this new system of multi-classing than most builds in both PF1 and 3.5. And to do that I used excel spread sheets.
The only real drawbacks I see in this system compared to PF1 and 3.5 is the high cost of early entry with the 16 stat requirement, limited number of multi-classes, and needing to plan your character out all the way before starting, in order to know which class is going to be your main class.
From what I have seen so far, I think multi-classing is going to have a much higher floor for the low end of the power scale. As for the high end? It looks to be a bit low not including game braking builds, just the powerful ones. Will not know for sure until I look closely through what is in the play test.
I plan to be testing the Fighter/Wizard and maybe adding a dash of a third class at the higher levels.
Remember not all power gamers are bad, some of us just like to play low risk characters.
I will be saving money. No point in getting a setting book if I am not going to run a game in the setting. Only need to get books that cover general settings and thus have usable stuff in them. I hope this does not cause too many problems with only general setting books being made since fewer people will be willing to buy the non-general setting books knowing they will not be able to use what is in them without getting their DM ok.
I agree. If you are going to use resonance do not use charges or uses per a day. If you do use charges and used per day toss out resonance. I have not problem with the math, it is the fact that it does not make sense. Telling me a item has charges make me think the item has the magical energy in it to work. Resonance is the item does not have the magical energy to work so I need to supply it. Using both on the same item does not make sense.
I could see using resonance to re-charge a item, but not to use charges. If the effect needs more cost to balance it, please do it some other way. decrease the power of the item, or add an action of needing to charge the item before use. Just please not charges and resonance at the same time.
My PF1 core hard back had to have duck tape add to hold it to gather, the same for one of my friends copy.
The Fighter get access to Legendary at level 13 for one group of weapons. It is likely that is going to be the hard floor for legendary in core. Most do not get access to legendary until level 15. So legendary does not kick in until one level after PFS play ends, if they do not change that.
There are high level NPCs in the world. There have been a lot of fallen and lost kingdoms. So a Kingdom that had some high level crafts in the pass, and armed their rank an file foot men with plus +1 weapons, their captains with +2 weapons, high level officers with +3, and generals with +4 weapons. A few small kingdoms like this and that would explain a lot of the magic items in the world. These would be rich kingdoms for their size and latter after the powerful persons who created the items have passed on, the rich kingdom is now target of conquest.
When the kingdom falls, many of the people will flee with the most valuable items they can take with them, others items are taken in the conquest, and other items are lost, to be found later by adventures.
Remember that magic items are tougher than normal items, and are harder to replace and thus more likely to be repaired. Also a lot cheaper to repair as well, with spells like mending, and make whole.
In the end I think the question is not where are all of these magic items coming from, but where have most of the magic items gone?
Will crafting become much less useful as we gain levels? In PF1 non-magical crafting became very slow as the price of the item went up, but other wise remained cost effective. It sounds like the new system will be time effective, but the cost savings as a percentage of a characters over all wealth will decrease as levels increase. Unless the cost of items increase is linear now.
Since familiars are now a feat instead of class ability I think it is likely there will be a way to grab the feat through multi-classing. If grabbing class feats form other classes is not the method of multi-classing now.
The fighter combos look fun. I do not see a problem with needing an action to enter a stance. I think a lot of class are going to have action cost they are going to want/need to pay the first round to activate class abilities. There is likely going to be a feat make drawing a weapon a free action or letting be combined with a move.
The Rogue getting super invisibility, most likely at or after level 15, is not that big a problem. By the level that this happens most of the other classes will have a lot of other abilities as well. Move to a narrow hallway back to back. Ready an action to gram the space the attack comes from. It will not matter as much that the rogue is invisible once they are grabbed. Getting that grab will be the hard part. There are still ways to counter the rogue, it is just that all of the easy ones are being taken off the table so you will need to think out side of the box.
It is also very likely that the rogue has a limit built into the ability. The rogue may have to pay Res(magic power form Cha) for each round the ability is up. The rogue will still be able to do a lot of damage with sneak attack in this time.
The magic item show that cost are not being to be going into the millions on gear this time. The item is nice and since a lot of time minor artifacts just have a lot of high level abilities, I think that any one of the abilities by its self is likely what we will be seeing on normal level 18 magic items.
The PDF copies of the books are also a good deal. They are cheaper than the physical books and a lot light as well.
On the background. It sounds alright. It lets me have a lot of control in building my character. As for being more simple, I do not see it, on the other hand I know the rules for PF1 good enough that I build characters without needing to look at my books so I thought PF1 was simple already.