Free Rerolles With No Shirt or Folio


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I do need a question answered pertaining the this Subject. I know by the Guide it says for a free reroll you have to have a shirt or a folio. But I recently came from a PFS game that allowed a reroll for a store purchase. As long as the receipt was bought the same day as the game, you will get a reroll. The GM came from out of state and said the Venture-Captain allowed it.

I have heard stories about groups of people not supporting their local gaming store. Be it TCG groups, RPG groups, or Board game groups. By buying something to get a reroll, doesn't really hurt the game at all. It does help the store stay open.

I was wondering if any other gaming groups have done this, or is this ok to do?

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I haven't heard of that. Hosting the games at all supports the store so I don't know where those stories are coming from. In my experience, lots of people buy stuff while they are playing PFS or before they leave. You could buy the character folio and be getting a reroll for making a purchase (the character folio). Technically, I don't think getting rerolls for store purchases is allowed. Rerolls are in the rules to encourage purchasing Paizo products. Why should Paizo give you a benefit for buying Magic cards?

my 2 cp

*****

Officially, no, that's not how it works.

Practically, there's not really going to be any way to stop it, and it seems pretty harmless.


I agree about the buying something that is not paizo related. But what if they do buy Paizo stuff?

The stories are mainly the TCG groups where most people just buy off the internet for their cards. But I can see other different groups doing that as well.

Shadow Lodge ****

In my home campaign, I allow a one time reroll per roll where the player thinks he has failed as long as the player has a Pathfinder hardcover book. One reroll per book but the caveat is no more than one reroll per scary, may have failed roll and, you have to live with the second roll, just like PFS. I would like to have this in the PFS games. That way players do not rely on other players to have a book they need and it encourages books to be bought. Friends, in order to save weight, might share books but may end up at different tables. With the home campaign, players can get a reroll if they have a trait feat in a paperback book.

The Exchange ***** RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

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I've had players ask for re-rolls because they are wearing a convention shirt. Because they have a Paizo shot glass. Because they have a Paizo purple 20-sider. Because they have a faction shirt in their backpack. Because they have a Paizo goblin doll. And for no damn reason at all.

If the campaign wants to institute a rule that everybody gets a free re-roll every session, then that's cool. As soon as that announcement comes down, I'll be glad to run with it.

Until then: wear a faction shirt, or have a character folio in plain view.

As a side note: I look through players Chronicles when I have time; there are a lot of players who have earned re-rolls as a boon from playing in certain scenarios. Very very few players have used those. It's worth reminding them when they need to make, say, a skill re-roll.

Sczarni **** Venture-Lieutenant, Connecticut—Manchester aka Cpt_kirstov

There are a few places where people have asked for convention shirts or local pfs lodge shirts to be allowed for reroll... Ill see if I can find the thread

Grand Lodge *****

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I give out an additional free reroll (additional meaning it stacks with the shirt or the folio) for having the latest issue of the Pathfinder comic with you at the table. My players are aware that that is only at my table (and any other local GM who wants to allow it), but I cannot and will not force any other GM to follow it.

Out of our group of 20-30 regular players, probably half of them buy the comic, which keeps my flgs owner ordering it. :)

I'll also give out my shirt reroll to a player in a life or death situation, or one that has been having particularly bad luck that scenario, asuming they dont have any other rerolls of their own.

Sovereign Court ***** RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

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I'm with Seth on giving away my shirt/goblin/portfolio reroll thing.

One of our FLGS we've allowed in the past one reroll, if you buy the d20 (and that d20 is the only one allowed to be used for the reroll).

When I ran Nightmarch, we had a run on portfolios with the gravity poisoning :-)

Silver Crusade ****

Given that lots of people show up and play in the host stores without actually buying anything, I think this is a great idea. The stores don't always get as much business as they'd like for the effort of having people hang out there for hours playing. I try to buy stuff when I'm playing at a store. They support our hobby by giving us free space, so we should try to support them back if we have the money to spend on their merchandise. Even if it's just a soda from their machine, what I spend is more than at least half the players who attend our weekly game nights around here.

The question is whether house rules like this are PFS legal. Technically, probably not, but I doubt if anyone will complain.

The Exchange ***** RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

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Fromper, nobody ever complains when the GM gives the player characters goodies.

Except the players at the next table over, who have to play by the rules. Or the next session's GM, who's expected to give those players the same goodies.


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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

The problem I have with using the t-shirts as a reroll, is you can’t find them anymore.

I do a search here (Paizo.com) and you will find smalls and mediums for some of the factions, and some of them have no sizes available at all.

So I support other venues in gives options for rerolls. Are new faction shirts going to be made?

The Exchange ***** RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Hobbun, all the following shirts also grant re-rolls:

Pathfinder Goblin with Red Gem
Pathfinder Society: Year of the Risen Rune
Pathfinder Society: Year of the Ruby Phoenix

Grand Lodge ***

Hobbun wrote:

The problem I have with using the t-shirts as a reroll, is you can’t find them anymore.

I do a search here (Paizo.com) and you will find smalls and mediums for some of the factions, and some of them have no sizes available at all.

So I support other venues in gives options for rerolls. Are new faction shirts going to be made?

The folio is available, I don't think that it is a limited run product so it should stay available.

Now I do think that local lodge shirts should be allowed as long as they have the society logo on the shirt in plain sight.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Well, I do have the folio as well. I guess I just also wanted to purchase a faction shirt for my current character's faction, however, it's apparently no longer made.

But I may purchase one of the shirts that you mentioned, Chris.

Thanks for your replies.


Chris Mortika wrote:

Hobbun, all the following shirts also grant re-rolls:

Pathfinder Goblin with Red Gem
Pathfinder Society: Year of the Risen Rune
Pathfinder Society: Year of the Ruby Phoenix

Last I checked they no longer had any of those shirts in my size :(


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Matrix Dragon wrote:
Chris Mortika wrote:

Hobbun, all the following shirts also grant re-rolls:

Pathfinder Goblin with Red Gem
Pathfinder Society: Year of the Risen Rune
Pathfinder Society: Year of the Ruby Phoenix

Last I checked they no longer had any of those shirts in my size :(

I just checked all three of those and same goes for me (none in my size). XL seems pretty impossible to find for any of them.

Oh well.

Lantern Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, Germany— Südwest

I like the reroll for buying stuff.
We should not forget that PFS is a marketing tool.
Also it helps to keep our local gaming stores alive.

I will adopt this idea.


Here Here on getting more shirts in! But I think that's a topic for a different day.

Our Local Store charges $2.00 per person to play, that being said, the GM's get a $5.00 give certificate for running....

And as far as re-rolls, shirt or folio only.

Grand Lodge *****

Just remember, unless the free reroll item is listed in the current PFS Guide, PFS FAQ, or Clarifications thread, technically, it is not legal in PFS.


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber
Hobbun wrote:

I just checked all three of those and same goes for me (none in my size). XL seems pretty impossible to find for any of them.

Oh well.

Hobbun, have you thought about giving the 2XL a go? I gravitate between XL and 2XL and I find for some manufacturers XL fits just fine and for others XL is a tad bit too snug. I got the Goblin with Red Gem in 2XL. It isn't overly large on me and I find it rather comfortable.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

I go between a large and XL, but XL is a little more comfortable and with the usual shrinkage after being washed, I like to go a little bigger.

But I could give the 2X a try, you just never know with some of these advertised shirt sizes, they can vary so much from manufacturer to manufacturer.

****

Hobbun wrote:
But I could give the 2X a try, you just never know with some of these advertised shirt sizes, they can vary so much from manufacturer to manufacturer.

It has been my experience with both the faction shirts and PFS season shirts that they run small. And (this may just be my method of washing, though) they tend to shrink more than others. Or maybe I'm just in denial about my overindulgences.

***

I personally dislike the whole idea of rerolls. I have a shirt I only use it to lend to other players so they can reroll. I do not mind allowing rerolls that are ruled specifically in, but since I dislike the rerolls in general I will not let store/house ruled at my table.

***

The idea (I would assume) behind Paizo allowing in-game re-rolls with the purchase of approved product is that such an incentive will help move product. Stores need to move product to stay open. Open stores may allow for gaming space. Giving players incentive to support the store doesn't seem out of line to me. I can understand why this would not be a codified rule, but I certainly do not understand the logic of challenging it. Both are based in the idea that if the player spends money, there will be an in-game benefit.

The Exchange ***** RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

RESURRECT THREAD

An issue came up this past weekend. Two players at the table had:

1) The PDF of the Folio on his iPod, which he could call up.

2) A black-and-white xerox copy of the Folio in his notes.

Is there any directive from the campaign leadship that either of these are okay for a re-roll?

Liberty's Edge *****

Yes.

Mike Brock has explicitly said it must be the physical and original Folio.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Interesting.

I can see why a photocopy would not be allowed, but I wonder why a PDF version would not be. Assuming of course it has “your” name on the watermark.

The Exchange *****

I have seen judges who require the PC to be written in the folio. So you basicly have to have a folio per PC...

Kind of ticked off the player who had his PC on his laptop... and the folio still sealed in the plastic.

Me, I just have the shirt. (though normally it's displayed on my bag, not on me...). I seldom use it though... I always seem to roll worse on the re-rolls. One day I rolled a 4 to a 3, and on a second re-roll I got a 1.

**

Hobbun wrote:

Interesting.

I can see why a photocopy would not be allowed, but I wonder why a PDF version would not be. Assuming of course it has “your” name on the watermark.

As far as i understood it, a watermarked PDF is allowed

Silver Crusade ****

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Per Mike Brock in other threads, the Folio must be an original hard copy, not a pdf or print out, but it doesn't have to have the PC in it.

Dark Archive ***

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I am not certain if I am the one who started this idea...but I know we used it 2 years ago when we did our first big Year of the Shadow Lodge event in one of our game stores.

We took up their space prime time on a Saturday with 10 tables. I needed the event to be a success and show that we could bring in income for the store in a noticeable amount for RPG items on that day...and a free re-roll was instituted for anyone who purchased an item and showed the receipt to the GM.

The goal was to build a relationship with the store through promotion of sales and provide an incentive for players to spend their money at this location now instead of at their other store throughout our region.

Whenever we host an event at a store that is expected to take up a majority of their play space, we now use this rule.

We do so sparingly...but I also leave it up to each store coordinator to deem when they need to strengthen their relationship with a brick and mortar by using this on a game night.

This re-roll, in the grand scheme of things, is another form of a GM soft balling an encounter.

The majority of the time a re-roll is used to the players benefit. It will help them look "cooler", win a situation, or prevent damage/effects from occurring.

Since most GM's in my region know that TPKing a first steps table of new players is tantamount to community genocide in my region, I point out the obvious implications of what I am asking them to do. Soft ball to get the hook in for new players. GM's also have moments where they feel a table is no longer having any fun and they will adapt the encounter to revitalize the groups enjoyment.

I will admit...the best games I've ever had in an RPG is when I am losing, I know I am losing, but having a great time anyway. The GM's that can do that are worth their weight in gold.

This re-roll for in store purchase becomes a retail cycle that puts form to the things we already encourage our GM's to do...give the players "a break" and let them shine as heroes.

Sovereign Court *****

Kyle Elliott wrote:
Really good stuff

Well said. +1

Grand Lodge ***** Regional Venture-Coordinator, Great Lakes aka TwilightKnight

Not sure how I missed this thread prior to the resurrection, but...

Finlanderboy wrote:
I personally dislike the whole idea of rerolls. I have a shirt I only use it to lend to other players so they can reroll. I do not mind allowing rerolls that are ruled specifically in, but since I dislike the rerolls in general I will not let store/house ruled at my table.

I assume you are referring to tables you are actually GM'ing, because as a player you don't really have that power.

In any case, even though you don't like them personally, the vast majority of players do. I think it is counterproductive to deny players an aspect of the game that (1) they enjoy, and (2) has become somewhat universally accepted. Do we want everyone to buy Paizo product, specifically the listed reroll items in the GtPFSOP? Absolutely. However, a single reroll over the course of a 4-5 hour game is somewhat insignificant. It certainly represents less than 5% of your rolls, and often times, a much smaller percentage (especially at higher levels). Its much easier to just allow it for other than the "official" items. And players will almost always have more fun at a table with rerolls than without. No one really wants to be a "hated" GM known for rigid application of rules, especially in the name of goodrightfun. I leave it in the hands of the table GM to determine if the application of reroll rules are reasonable, but I am willing to investigate claims of gross mismanagement of said rules as necessary.

Oh, and please don't bother trying to argue/extrapolate that to mean we should just allow players to do whatever they want in the name of "fun." Frankly, that is a weak, childish, ridiculous counter position.

Explore! Report! Cooperate!

*

Kyle Elliott wrote:
The goal was to build a relationship with the store through promotion of sales and provide an incentive for players to spend their money at this location now instead of at their other store throughout our region.

While I will not comment on this specific practice, as a random person, I have to agree with supporting the game stores. I've made a point to purchasing some items from the local stores instead of on-line for just this reason. In fact, I will forgo purchasing stuff from stores that do not support PFS games.

If I could purchase PDF's from the local store, that would be even better.

Sovereign Court *****

N N 959 wrote:
If I could purchase PDF's from the local store, that would be even better.

I feel like all I am doing is agreeing with other people's good ideas today. This is something I would like to see available too.

Liberty's Edge ***** Venture-Lieutenant, Alaska—Anchorage aka Dragnmoon

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Bob Jonquet wrote:
Oh, and please don't bother trying to argue/extrapolate that to mean we should just allow players to do whatever they want in the name of "fun." Frankly, that is a weak, childish, ridiculous counter position.

Play, Play, Play!

wait...what?... *Head explodes*

Grand Lodge *

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Folio re-rolls are allowable in one possible way, you have the folio.

Now, if we are in a store and I'm GMing and you want a 'free' re-roll, I will sell you my sealed folio, that I keep on me, for $11 and I'll walk up to the store owner and have him order me a new one, its roughly $10.90 to get a new one here in Los Angeles. I'll have my folio for when I play next, in a few days, when the store gets it in and you get your free re-roll. That I consider reasonable balance to the rule. Since then Paizo sells a folio for the 'free' re-roll and no rules are broken.

But if I'm playing and I have a folio and a player asks for it, to use on their re-roll, I'll straight up refuse. I suggest that they buy one at lvl. 1-5 and if you don't, tough luck, when you need it. Don't be cheap, I'm not here to fund your playing.

I can see it is acceptable to ask people to buy any $10 Paizo product to get a free re-roll 'that day' or just buy the folio and have it for every game, forever. It still sells product and eventually, they'll just buy the folio anyways.

I've heard several store owners say, that if Paizo keeps trying to put them out of business with their online PDF sales, they'll just kick the players out or only allow them to play if they have hard-copies of the product. And if the PFS players don't like it, they'll be charged $2-$4 a head for using their stores. The owners after all, pay for the air-conditioning, the rent, the lights and the employees in the store. So why should they suffer the costs, if you buy PFDs online and give nothing back.

So, to really put a proper comparison in this respect. Yes you can go to the grocery store and buy a 12 pack of beer but you can't bring it to your local pub. The pub will just kick you to the curb. And Paizo's PDF policy might soon see its players kicked to the curb much the same way.

At the end of the day, if you spend $20 on a PDF instead of $40 on a hardcopy, then Paizo makes money by excluding the middle-man aka the store, so why would the said middle-men feel any obligation to facilitate such a loss of income?

Its a corporate strategy that might need to be reviewed, sooner rather than later, for everyone's sake.

Grand Lodge **** Venture-Agent, Nevada—Las Vegas aka kinevon

@Eric: Even disregarding hardcopy book sales, there are plenty of Paizo products that make a lot of sense for the gamers to buy frmo the FLGS, assuming the LGS is Friendly, like flip-mats and map packs, dice, minis, pawns/tokens, etc.

Grand Lodge *

I agree, however unless it says Paizo or Pathfinder on it, I wouldn't allow it as a free re-roll at my table, since I would consider it an overstep on my part.

I wouldn't report anyone else for doing it, I just wouldn't feel comfortable doing so myself. Because I'd hate to find out that a game that I GMed was banned due to such an overreach.

Allowing a free re-roll because you are a new player and just bought the Core Rulebook, I'm sure I wouldn't get any hard time over it. Third party dice or play mats, that would be a coin-flip and I wouldn't want to gamble with someone else's scenario completion.

Sovereign Court *** Venture-Agent, Australia—NSW—Hurstville aka Jawbreaker

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Slightly off topic but when I ran the recent 'We Be Goblins Too' game I allowed a retrospective +1 to any attack rolls for any player who sang their Goblin Song.

Turned out we had a lot of players missing hits by one point and then singing to turn it into a hit.

Worked very well with this module given it was more fun than serious and the players had a blast.

Sovereign Court ***** RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Ravnestone had a run on folios when I ran Nightmarch of Kalamedies. :-)

Liberty's Edge *****

The flip maps and map packs are Paizo products.

The Exchange *****

Eric Saxon wrote:

I agree, however unless it says Paizo or Pathfinder on it, I wouldn't allow it as a free re-roll at my table, since I would consider it an overstep on my part.

I wouldn't report anyone else for doing it, I just wouldn't feel comfortable doing so myself. Because I'd hate to find out that a game that I GMed was banned due to such an overreach.

Allowing a free re-roll because you are a new player and just bought the Core Rulebook, I'm sure I wouldn't get any hard time over it. Third party dice or play mats, that would be a coin-flip and I wouldn't want to gamble with someone else's scenario completion.

so... can someone just donate $5.00 for a re-roll?

Kind of like when my wife passes a Girl Scout Cookie stand. She tells the girls she really doesn't need the cookies, but here's 5$ to support their troop.

Grand Lodge *

Donate $11 to me, I'll hand you my folio and order another one for myself from the store, immediately. I'm not in the business of taking $5 bribes, sorry.

Or if your Paizo product purchases total $10+ for the day, I'll treat the purchase as a 'free' re-roll for that day only.

*****

nosig wrote:
Kind of like when my wife passes a Girl Scout Cookie stand. She tells the girls she really doesn't need the cookies, but here's 5$ to support their troop.

LIES! Who doesn't need Girl Scout cookies?!?!

Grand Lodge *****

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Rulebook Subscriber
Hobbun wrote:

Well, I do have the folio as well. I guess I just also wanted to purchase a faction shirt for my current character's faction, however, it's apparently no longer made.

But I may purchase one of the shirts that you mentioned, Chris.

Thanks for your replies.

I wonder about, instead of shirts which are bulky to stock, have sizing issues (which I know all to well.) and maybe I don't want to wear the same shirt of a whole convention... An alternative would be faction patches like these: http://www.jinx.com/shop/coll/warcraft/acc/patch/ They could be official products, and I could don my faction patch on a shirt/sweater of my choice, or on my backpack, or any other creative way I can imagine.

Easy to stock, don't take up a lot of room in the warehouse, and they are one size fits all.

The Exchange *****

Kyle Baird wrote:
nosig wrote:
Kind of like when my wife passes a Girl Scout Cookie stand. She tells the girls she really doesn't need the cookies, but here's 5$ to support their troop.
LIES! Who doesn't need Girl Scout cookies?!?!

there is a difference between "need" and "want"... and besides, they don't have a cookie with BACON in it (yet).

The Exchange *****

Hay, PFS has a god with a mug of beer as a holy symbol (Cayden), is there one with bacon strips?

The Exchange *****

Galnörag wrote:
Hobbun wrote:

Well, I do have the folio as well. I guess I just also wanted to purchase a faction shirt for my current character's faction, however, it's apparently no longer made.

But I may purchase one of the shirts that you mentioned, Chris.

Thanks for your replies.

I wonder about, instead of shirts which are bulky to stock, have sizing issues (which I know all to well.) and maybe I don't want to wear the same shirt of a whole convention... An alternative would be faction patches like these: http://www.jinx.com/shop/coll/warcraft/acc/patch/ They could be official products, and I could don my faction patch on a shirt/sweater of my choice, or on my backpack, or any other creative way I can imagine.

Easy to stock, don't take up a lot of room in the warehouse, and they are one size fits all.

This has been suggested before. I like the idea, and could see having one for most factions (maybe with velcro so I could switch what was on my polo shirt pocket depending on what PC I am running).

But I'm guessing it's not comming soon...

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