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Tonight, our old 3.5 DM decided to run a one shot campaign. It's been well over six months since we played these characters. We have had to get everything approved by him. That means nothing is on my character sheet that he didn't approve, this piece of information is important.
Tonight we fought these demon things, they have DR 10/ something and also have what I can only assume is displacement. My paladin has the Complete Champion feat, Awesome Smite, which if you don't know, allows me to as a tactical maneuver, either bypass DR up to twice my CHA, or automatically bypass miss chance (there's also a third maneuver but it doesn't matter here.) And he refused to honor the feat, which he approved.
I was okay with not bypassing the DR, what if it's DR/epic I thought. But when he decided that I can't use the feat at all because he doesn't remember it, I just walked out.
This is the same DM that made us auto fail checks to have our gear stolen and put us in a no win scenario where we either kill the BBEG and our stolen stuff turns to stone, our we don't kill the BBEG and we die....
DM god complex/ entitled player/ this is why I took over as DM/ this is why I switched to Pathfinder/rant/thread
I've never done that, but in this situation, I may have.
This goes beyond a GM's fiat to make an encounter more challenging. I approved your character, but because I didn't forsee the potential consequence in the encounters I built, I'm changing my mind.
Sod that.
Seems like you've given him a chance before, and this was his second chance. Your decision to start your own game was a smart one.
I think I would have walked out, too.
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Well, some people just lack the maturity to GM, you know? It requires a level of impartiality, and an ability to let go of one's ego, that some people just do not possess.
If it were me, I'd be glad to know the paladin had some means of evening things out. I hate no-win scenarios. Like Jim Kirk, I do not believe in them, so as a GM of 32 years, I never purposefully stack the deck to dominate my players so completely. Where would the fun be in that? But again, for some people, their egos are reliant upon such tactics.
I did quit on a DM mid-combat, once. Though it's hard to say now whether I really walked out, or if he was giving the game up anyway. But if he hadn't stopped, I would have. It went like this:
There was this problem player we played with, who was a good roleplayer, but not the most wise individual and not the most even-tempered person in the world. He begged and begged to be allowed to DM, and finally against our better judgment, two of us sat down to play under him.
I was playing a CG dual class human fighter/thief Sinbad-type dude (2nd Edition), whom I described as very superstitious and edgy. I was playing him that way, and I thought, doing a good job of it. We were in a dungeon supposedly belonging to some necromancer, and we had run into his servant, who appeared as an old man in tattered robes.
Understand that the DM had described this guy as appearing as an old man (emphasis HIS, not mine), and he had made a big deal about how we got the feeling this servant was not what he appeared to be. We managed to tie the old guy up to try to question him. Suddenly, without warning, he began screaming for his master. I wanted to knock the guy out, but this player was a totally inexperienced DM and he had no idea how to play that. He began screaming out loud in character (I'm not joking, the DM began to scream in real life) for his master. So in a moment of panic, not knowing if this guy was a demon in disguise and not knowing if the necromancer was about to show up, I did the only thing I thought I had left available to me - I took a swipe at him with my scimitar.
Evidently, the old guy only had one hit point, because the DM never even let me roll damage. He stopped screaming, and stared at me silently for like half a minute, then very seriously asked me how I could do such a thing to a harmless old man. For the next ten or fifteen minutes, he lectured with me and argued with me about everything from my character's alignment, to what a bad person I must be in real life, if all I thought about was slashing old men tied to chairs. He really, really lost his mind and tried to make me into a horrible person. It was one of the most surreal experiences I've ever had playing. Finally, I just left.
Over the following years, every-so-often this player would again propose that we take turns DMing, so that he could have a turn. The other DM (who was the other player that day) and I would just look at each other dubiously and shake our heads. There was no way we'd let him be in charge again after that.
I wouldnt ever walk out for a gaming related reason, I think. It sounds to me like he's being unreasonable, but I think of gaming night more as a social setting than a game, so capricious rulings would just alter my approach rather than making it valueless.
I presume you explained why and everything? I definitely wouldnt have 'just' walked out (in the sense of silently leaving). The moral high ground is worth a lot in the denouement of situations like this, I think.
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You were definitely right to quit.
I've "walked out" (at least one time was online) a few times.
One time, the DM ran a very open type sandbox game where we were an evil party that took over a kingdom and thanks to the magic of corrupt taxation, were wildly wealthy for our level. Anyway... a player of a monk going into assassin decides out of the blue to kill me in my sleep as her "entry requirement." And then literally gives me a s**t-faced grin about how when the party raises me, I will have to roleplay not knowing she killed me. I leave, angry. DM tells me the game has gotten out of hand afterwards and that she plans to end it by having a party of level 20 good guys come in to kill the party, asks if I want to play one of them. Kind of wanting nothing to do with the game anymore yet also eager for revenge, I say yes. Only for my level 20 character to be stabbed in the back by the other level 20 people who are actually all evil and in collusion with the monk/assassin. Cue more out of character antagonizing of me by her. Also, turned out the DM knew the characters she told the new people to make as good PCs were actually evil and didn't bother to inform me. I yelled and swore a bit, left the room, left D&D completely for about a year, and nearly ended my friendship with said DM. The DM's boyfriend, also a friend of mine, came out of the room after me and tried to console me, and said if it had happened to him, he'd have thrown his drink in the face of the monk player...
Then, there was the online game where the DM (who I had never known before) was constantly criticizing my friend about his character. And I mean that on a personal level, he was insulting my friend, not just his character. We get to the 2nd session and first actual combat, and my friend asks a completely valid question about the surroundings. DM halts everything, says he can't take my friend's questioning and munchkinism (his character was not even optimized, for what it's worth) anymore, and the game was cancelled. He then invited me to play a new campaign w/o my friend. I had, up to now, been keeping my mouth shut other than trying to calm tempers, biting my digital tongue as I angrily watched him completely illogically assault my friend. No more. I told him he had been an a**hole this whole time while my friend wasn't doing anything wrong, how I wanted nothing to do with him and his games anymore, etc... It was crazy, I really can't understand even looking back, how he was so rabidly angry at my friend...
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
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a one shot
One shot = all bets are off. Who cares if you lose all your gear if you defeat the BBEG?
As for the inconsistency in feat adjudication/houseruling on the fly, sure, that's a bad GM move. But you could have just asked if you could change feats on the spot since he ruled that feat didn't work on the spot. Instead you tableflipragequit. That's more jerkish behavior than a bad rules call.
OTOH, you made the decision to run your own game. That's a good choice. Take the opportunity to show your buddy what consistency and fairness look like.
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The DM and you weren't the only players.
Walking out on a DM who is a tool, meh.
Walking out on your fellow players, not cool.
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a one shotOne shot = all bets are off. Who cares if you lose all your gear if you defeat the BBEG?
As for the inconsistency in feat adjudication/houseruling on the fly, sure, that's a bad GM move. But you could have just asked if you could change feats on the spot since he ruled that feat didn't work on the spot. Instead you tableflipragequit. That's more jerkish behavior than a bad rules call.
OTOH, you made the decision to run your own game. That's a good choice. Take the opportunity to show your buddy what consistency and fairness look like.
Haven't responded in a minute cause I had to make the hour drive home from the game.
The other players asked me to come back and I said no, and that I only would on the condition that I get to swap the feat out for free without penalties. The DM responded by saying that the monster had a feat that made it to where I would automatically miss, and the exact words used were "his feat trumps yours." Yeah, your monster has a feat where I cannot possibly hit him, that makes me want to come back to the table.This is a DM who is very concerned about the PCs being overpowered and bans a lot of things for no reason, using "because it's overpowered" as his ruling.
I would be less mad about it if I hadn't spent 20$ in gas to drive an hour to get there just ton get screwed by a DM who doesn't remember his own rulings.
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If this was 2nd end., I'd start to think you were playing at my old GM's table. There's a reason I don't play there anymore.
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I recall playing a paladin character back in 3.5. I was a bit more of a redeemer, offering mercy to villains before smiting them. I certainly wasn't lawful stupid, but more of the Captain America type of character. I even had an ex-con as my understudy, showing him the err of his ways and teaching him virtue and all that good stuff.
So we come upon an evil and cruel bad guy, whom we defeat in combat but not kill (negatives though). I manacled him, stabilized him, and by my paladin's order, imprisoned him under my watch to be dealt with by the kingdom we were protecting. This wasn't an unusual thing, as my paladin believed himself to be merely a protector, not an executioner, and thus due process was given to all villains captured by myself. No one had any issue with it, least of all the GM.
Or so I thought...
After dropping off Mr. Bad Guy in the prison, we suddenly get visited in the middle of the town by a solar. A solar specifically asking for my paladin. Now I'm thinking "Gee, we must be going on some crazy quest so this'll be a huge honor!" Nope. Turns out that my paladin was being punished for allow evil to live on and propagate, trusting a (what the angel called) corrupt justice system to mete out justice instead of slaughtering them on the spot. He even said "My mercy will be my undoing" and took me and my compatriots to Heaven, where we spent a whole session in some kangaroo court trying in vain to prove my innocence. I was found guilty of aiding evil and not seeing the "big picture" and my paladin was sent to hell to be tortured for all eternity. The End. Don't Pass Go, Don't Collect $200.
So yeah, I actually got punished for being a good paladin. I didn't walk out though, as in my teenage years, I was more petty and angry. Instead I made a barbarian and just spent two sessions killing all of his precious NPCs, good or evil. Game kinda imploded after that. Can't say it was the right thing for me to do, but everyone else also thought the paladin ruling was pretty b#*#!$~#.
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a one shotOne shot = all bets are off. Who cares if you lose all your gear if you defeat the BBEG?
As for the inconsistency in feat adjudication/houseruling on the fly, sure, that's a bad GM move. But you could have just asked if you could change feats on the spot since he ruled that feat didn't work on the spot. Instead you tableflipragequit. That's more jerkish behavior than a bad rules call.
OTOH, you made the decision to run your own game. That's a good choice. Take the opportunity to show your buddy what consistency and fairness look like.
Haven't responded in a minute cause I had to make the hour drive home from the game.
The other players asked me to come back and I said no, and that I only would on the condition that I get to swap the feat out for free without penalties. The DM responded by saying that the monster had a feat that made it to where I would automatically miss, and the exact words used were "his feat trumps yours." Yeah, your monster has a feat where I cannot possibly hit him, that makes me want to come back to the table.This is a DM who is very concerned about the PCs being overpowered and bans a lot of things for no reason, using "because it's overpowered" as his ruling.
I would be less mad about it if I hadn't spent 20$ in gas to drive an hour to get there just ton get screwed by a DM who doesn't remember his own rulings.
You picked a good avatar looks kind of sad. Sorry to hear you had to drive so far for a night that turned out a wash. Now you know though not to game with that GM.
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The DM and you weren't the only players.
Walking out on a DM who is a tool, meh.
Walking out on your fellow players, not cool.
I have to disagree with Tim. Some people are willing to put up with very poor behavier just to play. Some will even play when they are not having a good time just to play.
But if you were no longer going to have a good time, your time is valuable. You did the right thing in leaving. The others need to make their own choices and you do not owe them your time just because they are willing to put up with the situation as is.
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The DM and you weren't the only players.
Walking out on a DM who is a tool, meh.
Walking out on your fellow players, not cool.I have to disagree with Tim. Some people are willing to put up with very poor behavier just to play. Some will even play when they are not having a good time just to play.
But if you were no longer going to have a good time, your time is valuable. You did the right thing in leaving. The others need to make their own choices and you do not owe them your time just because they are willing to put up with the situation as is.
It's not like I was any use to my party anyway, given the DM will just rule against my favor regardless of the rules. What good is a paladin that can't hit things?
It's not like I was any use to my party anyway, given the DM will just rule against my favor regardless of the rules. What good is a paladin that can't hit things?The DM and you weren't the only players.
Walking out on a DM who is a tool, meh.
Walking out on your fellow players, not cool.I have to disagree with Tim. Some people are willing to put up with very poor behavier just to play. Some will even play when they are not having a good time just to play.
But if you were no longer going to have a good time, your time is valuable. You did the right thing in leaving. The others need to make their own choices and you do not owe them your time just because they are willing to put up with the situation as is.
MEAT SHIELD!!! :P
Is there a thread dedicated to horrible things DM's have done? I would love to read and add to that...
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I think I only ever walked out of one game, mid-combat, and it was because the GM decided it would be cool to run a game for somewhere around 14 players at once. In three hours, I'd had maybe two minutes to describe what I was doing and then when an actual combat started, I had one turn and then waited around 40 minutes for my next turn in initiative before finally quietly packing up and leaving. The GM was so busy trying to wrangle all the other players, nobody even noticed me leave.
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...I made a barbarian and just spent two sessions killing all of his precious NPCs, good or evil.
I honestly see absolutely nothing wrong with this reaction.
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My RPG group actually ended a GM's game. It wasn't Pathfinder/D&D, but same group that has been/is playing those games. It was actually a Marvel game, where we used a point buy system for balance, and even discussed our characters as a group to make a well rounded, interesting team. Instead of having us fight villains who could face us, he just used his favorites (Taskmaster and Deadpool) and had them consistently "twist slightly to the left" to avoid things like...matter conversion and telekinesis. We were constantly being attacked by weaker villains who 1. always knew where we were somehow, despite us being able to teleport globally, 2. were able to shrug off all manner of attacks and attempts to disable/immobilize them, 3. were themselves beyond the scope of any means of detection/tracking, 4. would reveal themselves to be an impostor if we did somehow manage to defeat them, 5. generally made a group that we had worked together on feel completely useless.
The good news is, after much beer enhanced arguing, we were able to reach an agreement to simply end the campaign and move on to Pathfinder. That GM is even running our RotRL campaign right now, and doing a great job. But we still give him crap to this day..."I'm assuming my Magic Missile hit, unless he 'twisted slightly to the left'".
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I've walked out on a few GMs in my youth. 3 right off the top of my head.
1st, AD&D Game @ I think it was at Pacificon @ Dunfey Hotel,San Mateo, CA in like 1983-84? It was a convention ran game(not an opened gaming game.) The GM running wasn't prepped to run. He wasn't rolling dice to hit us, he didn't understand how to calculate T.H.AC0 either. the adventure wasn't what he claimed it was in the game description and he was drunk off his ass and he wet himself at the table. What was Iced the Cake, was he destroyed two of my minis just being a dick!
2nd, Was at a Convention in California,I'm not sure where. My Memory stinks, But it was either Santa Clara, San Jose or LA. I payed extra to be in a Pre-Reg. game that the staff confirmed was Ran by Jeff Grubb. I get to the game, it's not him. So WTF!!! and then the guy isn't even named Jeff Grubb. He's Jay Grubhe or something like that. His accent was like French Mini-Mouse And HE only was allowing us to move where he wanted..so on the third or forth time Micro Managing the game. I left the game.
3rd, Was a Campaign, I played in for like 2-3 months. Then we had a Young lady join our group, The game master, trips out over having a real life girl in the group and turns are game in to who and what does what to Beth, this week. (Use your imagination for offensive adult content!!)
Ummm...man, those are some s~!+ty experiences. I'm glad you didn't let them chase you away from gaming. :-/
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I don't suppose you have a link to some.The best stories
are the Crazy GM Girlfriend stories.
Actually, I do have one at hand. We used to play CoC with a GM whose significant other was ... let's say, possessive. However, she was also a great Cthulhu fan and was totally cool with us playing except those rare times when she used to call our GM furiously and demand his immediate return home. One time, after some dramatic bargaining over the phone he returned to us and proclaimed:
"Guys, we can finish the game tonight, but under one condition: I have to TPK you because my GF wants to hear the story how you all died/went mad".
We gladly obliged.
Wow. That's really bad, still, couldn't you have found out with divination? The character would know that someone killed her and would quite reasonably be out for revenge. Secretly hiring a third party wizard to determine the cause would make perfect sense from an iC perspective.
Or you could go a step further and purchase a Mind-Rape+Love's Pain barrage if there's a vile wizard of high enough level. Now that would make them paranoid, especially if they didn't have the spellcraft to identify it.
Or if NPC spellcasting isn't available, once you've found out who it was, during downtime, use fabricate to build a hollow ornament made of extremely valuable materials around a collection of a hundred or so explosive runes pamphlets. During your watch you stuff it somewhere that the monk will see, hope their greed gets the better of them, pretend as though you've been 'put in place' and make a show about how they deserve it, and pretend that everything is normal until the next time an area dispel goes off.
D&D has a lot of ways for a spellcaster to find someone, and a lot of interesting ways to get retribution.
Well, I still hadn't played much D&D by that point and had yet to learn of the real ultimate power of spellcasters and that they could do such things. Also, I was mostly just enraged past the point where you can think calmly and logically.
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Technically yes. We were playing Red Hand of Doom, with an evil party, and every other player had picked some race or class with wings. I was the only 'normal' PC with a dwarf swordsage.
The party decided to go get a 'look' at the army, which mean 'fly over it and start eldritch blasting and other shenanigans'. My dwarf was left leaning against a tree to watch while the DM tried to resolve things.
Finally, I said 'my dwarf heads back to the town to warn the people that hired us in the first place' then stood up and left the shop.
Here's a story TOZ likes.
Couple of years ago, was running a homebrew campaign and the players were getting ready to deal with the big bad evil guy. One of my players had temper issues. He'd get mad when his dice rolled bad and fling them across the room. He was also getting pretty pissed off at a player's girlfriend for having to do her quest. S+#% was getting nuts and I had tried talking to him before the game to chill out. Well they are fighting the evil ogre mage and the oni kills his character and he loses his temper and literally punches me in the face. So, the game grinds to a halt as a lifted him up and powerbombed him through my table, because you just don't punch somebody for killing your character. Needless to say, he didn't return for subsequent games.
Another story, though this is just a repost.
The only time someone has ever threatened to walk was when I first got into 3.5. I was only allowing core stuff because I was still new to the game and very new to GMing. My handle on the rules at the time was minimal so I just wanted it to be easier on myself instead of memorizing all the splat books. I made sure everyone knew that beforehand. One player decided instead that he would bring a drow soulknife into the group. I didn't even have the book on psionics nor did I understand the rules for monsters as characters (at the time, I didn't even know what the f~%@ drow were), so I emailed him and politely asked him to reconsider a new character. When game day came, he came in and slammed his notebook near me, saying his drow soulknife is in there and he's playing it. I told him that I was just allowing core and to please reconsider the character. Finally, he came out and said that if I didn't allow it, he'd leave the game and make me walk home. He was my ride home since I was a teenager and if you know the distance from Summerville to Charleston, you'll understand that walking was out of the question. I allowed it and did the best I could, but the entire game he was disruptive, treating NPCs and the other players terribly in the stereotypical "Chaotic Stupid" fashion. At the end of the game, nobody had fun and my first game fell apart quickly.
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I did walk out once:
Our rogue had been tasked with creating a distraction, while the rest of the party stole a statue. It didn't need to be anything big, just something that would turn everyone's heads for a second (we were in a crowded gladiatorial arena). The rogue decides to pitch an alchemist's fire bomb into the crowd. Not the best decision. But the confusion allows us to abscond with the statue.
The security forces (basically armed thugs of the "mob-boss" type owner of the gladiatorial pits) start swarming the area, looking for the perpetrator of the bomb. The rest of us got away clean (statue shattered and swept into a bag of holding [didn't need it intact]). The rogue, pointing out that the panicking crowd gives him great cover, successfully eludes security. DM is not happy... though I'm still not really sure why.
Next session, we get ambushed. Enemy cleric (maybe?) casts a spell on the rogue... Will save: Nat 20. Rogue is frozen in place. Spellcraft Check by party Wizard: very high, but don't remember actual number. Can't determine spell. Party leaps into action. Enemy Cleric(?) is down quickly. Rogue is still frozen, with no additional saves. Enemies dropping like flies to party attacks. Two baddies grab the frozen rogue, and start running off with him. Wizard casts Web. Enemy holding rogue (and double moving 80 feet per round, mind you) gets caught.
Here's where it went beyond stupid: The enemy hurls our rogue, like a football, through the air to his companion who didn't get caught. Second baddie catches him like an NFL wide receiver on a deep route. He turns the corner, and is gone, rogue and all.
The DM's explanation (no fooling): "They're monks. Monks can do that."
We found him later, unconscious in the gutter, with his hand cut off. He was a two-weapon fighter, so that was kind of an issue for him. We left early that night. A few weeks later cooler heads prevailed, the game recommenced and the DM made amends.
We dallied with the idea of dropping all our characters and making a party of monks. We never knew some of the tricks monks had up their sleeves!
I have, for completely different reasons than most people seem to be posting here.
I can't recall the game specifically ... It was some modified 3.5 setting spinoff, predating PF by a bit. I almost want to say it was one of the ones based off a computer game like WoW, EQ, or Diablo. But anyway ...
He has us make 3rd level characters, which is apparently 'typical' for that ruleset. We get a 'guide', an NPC (aka DMPC) trudging along with us.
We run into monsters that we simply cannot hit or affect unless our rolls were ridiculous. Like, 18+ to hit. They save against everything the spellcasters throw at them. In the meantime, our 'helpful guide' is going through them like Rosanne Barr through a box of Waffle Crisp. If any of us get attacked, we're either one-punched or hovering at 5 or fewer HP, while our 'guide' is so damage resistant that Superman is rolling his eyes at it.
We put up with this for two fights, then we all just leave, both in and out of character, noting that the 'guide' obviously doesn't need our help here.
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Nope, never walked out on a game. Never had anyone walk out on me as GM either.
Such behavior goes beyond "game behavior" and enters the "socially appropriate behavior" realm. I would only walk out on a group of people I had agreed to participate in an event if something seriously personally insulting or threatening occurred.
It's just a game.
Don't think I've ever actually walked out of a game, though recently I did tear up my character sheet in disgust at the GM's idea of an encounter (it's kind of hard to walk out of your own house).
Party of 11th level characters, facing off against homebrewed insectile race. They were: invisible, able to stealth incredibly well, and were all capable spellcasters.
Okay, when I say they were able to stealth incredibly well, I mean that when the wizard with See Invisible active tried to spot one, he was told that his roll of 19 (before modifiers) wasn't going to be good enough.
The thing that made me tear up my sheet, though, was when I learned that we were facing one single foe that was alone CR 18 (and he had backup in the CR 14 region, combined), because "you won easily against a CR 4 encounter, I wanted to see what you'd do if you were outmatched to the same degree".
Here's where it went beyond stupid
Too late, it went stupid the moment you mentioned failing a save on a nat 20, if not even earlier than that.
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Here's where it went beyond stupidToo late, it went stupid the moment you mentioned failing a save on a nat 20, if not even earlier than that.
Eh ... I don't use that rule when I run games, but I tell everybody beforehand (and remove the 'nat 1 fail' rule too).
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Nope, never walked out on a game. Never had anyone walk out on me as GM either.
Such behavior goes beyond "game behavior" and enters the "socially appropriate behavior" realm. I would only walk out on a group of people I had agreed to participate in an event if something seriously personally insulting or threatening occurred.
It's just a game.
Is it really that inappropriate to walk out on a game, though? It can potentially be an overreaction if the player decides to leave just because something didn't go his way one time, but a lot of these stories, the GM is not allowing the player(s) to have fun, or in some instances even play, for vague, unsupported reasons. In that situation I would figure the GM doesn't want me playing, and I'd leave.
I have left a table angry before...though it is usualy to go have a cig and calm down. I have never had a experience like those descibed above though.
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Hmmm, happened to me twice,
Numero uno, we were playing AD&D 2 in some dude's garage, and he was openly hostile towards me from the get go (he was a player, my best friend was th GM). He always second gessed my ideas and plans and he actually pulled the munchie bowl away from me when he thought that i was going to go for them. The s**t hit the fan when i failed a dexterity check and his character plummeted 200 feet to his death. He gets up from the table and starts yelling at me, so hard that spit was flying from his mouth. Then he punches me in the face. Then i proceed to wipe the entire garage with his face, pick up my stuff while he was groaning on the floor and leave. Needles to say, my group (including my best friend) never played with him again.
Second, we were playing with the worst GM i have ever seen to this day. He was a firm believer in "GM is god" and players should be losers with nothing to their name besides a nail cutter. Anyway, after six sessions or so, we have somehow managed to scrounge up two suits of chainmail and three swords, and we were constantly getting into fights with tough guys whose equipment broke once they were defeated. I was getting more and more pissed at the GM and annoyed by the lack of fun we were having. So, we decided to walk away form his game in style. We set fire to the entire town and proceeded to kill anything that stepped in front of us. It was actually HIM who walked out. I hear that nowadays, he can't get anyone to game with him.