Thanks for the input! I hope we don't steamroll the campaign with 25 points, but i might be fighting the other players to get back down to 20. Hopefully our GM can balance it out if it's a problem...I have faith in him.
I feel good about going with the shaman, and that was a good point about arcane casting. Not sure why my teammates don't like playing casters, but that's fine with me. I'll be slingin' all the spells.
Considering the concessions I've asked for already, I don't feel comfortable arguing about Life Link. Also, after using that with my Life Oracle, I'm not honestly sure I'll miss it. I was surprised how often my companions broke it by moving out of range, and I often had to end it to avoid dying myself. Not saying it isn't good, just not worth the discussion IMHO.
I'm about to start playing in a WotR campaign. We have 3 players, and I convinced our GM to give us a 25 point build because of our party size. I like playing divine casters, so I have taken on that role. I've narrowed my choices down to 2 concepts:
Zuri, Aasimar Shaman, Life Spirit. I feel the key advantage to this choice is the ability to channel without having to play a cleric or life oracle, both of which I've played with this group before. Looked at Hospitaler, but decided against it. Main flavor/fun is gaining an air elemental familiar at level 5...a celestial air elemental with fast healing 1.
Wadinku, Aasimar (angel-kin) Oracle, Lunar mystery. Main advantage, tiger animal companion. Unlike the Shaman, who is completely caster focused, Wadinku will have some melee ability both from himself and his tiger friend. I might also take the Seeker archetype, which would give him some rogue abilities.
Other two characters are a ranged Paladin (race unknown), and a Strix sword and board Fighter.
Which would be better in a 3 man party? Which would excel in a demon-heavy campaign?
Thanks in advance, and for reading this far!
Aasimar Wind Oracle, tongues curse. Having access to healing magic would be life altering in the real world, and the kind of abilities gained with the Wind mystery (flight, invisibility) are what most people dream of. It's hard to say what I would need to do to "level up" in this reality, but I would certainly be more adventurous if I could magically create water, heal myself, and turn invisible...add inSpiritual Weapon and summoning, and I could see myself actually looking for trouble. Sure, I wouldn't be the only person with magic, but healers are always sought after, and I could be picky about who I align myself with.
Do I get to pick Spell Focus:Conjuration and Augment Summon?
I was surprised this thread doesn't already exist. What I have found so far:
1. Fill it with water, then bull rush, teleport, etc. a creature into it. Fold it up to drown the creature. True, they would eventually suffocate inside anyway...
2. Have the fastest member of the party carry everyone around inside it, with an air supply of some sort. Air Bubble spell, bottle of air, etc. This would work for camping, too.
3. Set it up as a pitfall trap.
4. Fill it with weapons, then cast telekinesis to attack with 9-15 weapons at once.
Not comprehensive, but hopefully this gets y'all started.
Ramiel, a Suli Paladin of Iomedae. Died 3 times so far (level 10)
Ramiel's faith is wavering, and Nalon is going a bit insane. Macabre is so afraid of dying that he spends many combats hiding. Tamir mostly kills things...
Wow! So many great responses, thank you everyone!
Just wanted to point out a couple things to those still interested: My character is a cleric of Nethys specializing in Summons who probably knows better than I do the best course of action here. Int 14, Wis 20, true Neutral alignment...if selling the name is unreasonable, he's not greedy enough to do it, even though I as a player am. I might want to reconsider my/his options.
My acquisition of the name was pretty legit. I found him in an ancient Thassilonian trap, his vital energy almost entirely depleted after thousands of years. Without intervention, he would have been destroyed permanently...not sent back to the Nine Hells, he would cease to exist. He was desperate. Further, I had a Paladin of Iomedae refusing to let him go and telling myself and the rest of our party to let him die there. The pit fiend, however, knew an important piece of information we needed to complete our current task. After lengthy discussion, this devil started to panic since no one but me expressed any interest in freeing him. Eventually, he made me a secret offer through telepathy...free him, and he would 1) tell me the information I needed 2) tell me his true name and 3) "owe me a favor"
After being denied the opportunity to raise an undead managerie, I decided enough was enough. In the interest of expedient problem solving, I managed to discreetly free him and save the lives of hundreds of people. My party does not know how I freed him, that I know his name, or that he "owes me a favor."
Man, that got long winded.
@pirate I had considered that, still am
@Addem I'm mostly buffs, but our party has a pally, a bard, and a magus so I've been trying to do some battlefield control, mostly with summons since our DM doesn't like to let my debuffs go off most of the time.
@David I meant improved familiar! got an air elemental so I can heal/buff at range and stay out of harm's way. I am taking improved eldritch at 11, though
Out of combat, I usually try to solve any problem with magic...the more grandiose and rediculous the better. Recently suggested we sneak into an ogre infested fort by animating a huge spider's corpse, casting air walk on it, and riding it in from above.
In combat, I buff, heal, debuff if I can, and I'm pretty good at locking down casters if there are any. There aren't really many good straight damage spells for me, but I'll drop a holy smite every now and again.
Thanks for all the responses so far!
my cleric just hit level 9, and it's the first point where i don't have a feat planned. a lot of feats so far have been mostly flavorful, so i'd like something mechanically awesome.
feats so far: selective channel, eldritch heritage, versatile channel, improved eldritch heritage, scribe scroll (from Rune/Wards).
craft rod would be good, except that i don't have any metamagic feats to make metamagic rods.
i'm thinking craft wand or craft wondrous item, which would make sense for a cleric of Nethys...wanting to spread magic in the world and whatnot. but again, i'm looking for the most mechanical advantage.
For feats, spell focus: conjuration is solid if paired with either augment summons or Mage tattoo. If you choose augment summon of course you'll want summon monster right away. If Mage tattoo(conjuration), go with Snowball to get an extra die of damage and a boost to the save vs. stagger. Conjuration covers a lot of good battlefield control spells, and a few ranged attacks as well.
Nethys conceptually, Cayden mechanically.
Nethys is an ideal deity for someone who doesn't want cumbersome moral guidelines on how to use his divine power. As far as I can tell, he's the best option for playing a non-evil necromancer cleric. Healing? Curses? Celestial and Fiendish summons? Sure. Go for it. I also love role playing an "everything is better with magic" ideology. In a world full of magic, wouldn't it make sense for anyone who could use magic to use it as much as possible?
Cayden has great domains and subdomains, and his clerics can use Create Water to create beer and wine! Great for a variety of builds.
I looked into oracles, and they can only get mounts. I don't want a horse or camel. Your point on SR is a good one, though...hand't thought of that. Makes buffing the pet a bit wonky...I'd probably have to teach it a trick to lower it's SR, and possibly another to raise it again. Mage Armor ignores spell resistance, at least...hm.
I don't necessarily want spoilers, but...am I going to be fighting a lot of undead and/or things immune to cold? This build will also focus on summons, but definitely built around cold damage. I don't mind if one or two fights make my blasting useless, but if a significant portion of the campaign makes cold a poor choice I'd like to know before we start.
Thanks in advance! You guys always deliver.
Instead of finding corruption within a structured hierarchy, there are other faith based organizations to keep an eye on.
Inquisitors of Cayden might investigate rumors of child abuse at an orphanage, or a tavern that served as a front for slave traders.
Shelyn's inquisitors could clear out fiend infested ruins in preparation of plans to refurbish the frescoes of some ancient temple there.
hm, some good points. i hadn't considered point blank/deadly aim...but that brings up a good point. without precise shot, i will be taking penalties to hit. i'm starting to understand more of the limitations.
still, if i'm willing to put a couple feats in, throwing an elven curve blade around sounds mad decent, especially once i'm using magic weapons. it's a nice option to have when i'm low on spells, or am faced with a situation my memorized spells aren't optimized for.
thanks for your input, tomorrow and Fromper. i know now what i must do.
I've read a few cleric optimization guides, and the Magic domain in general and this ability specifically don't get much love.
Hand of the Acolyte (Su): You can cause your melee weapon to fly from your grasp and strike a foe before instantly returning. As a standard action, you can make a single attack using a melee weapon at a range of 30 feet. This attack is treated as a ranged attack with a thrown weapon, except that you add your Wisdom modifier to the attack roll instead of your Dexterity modifier (damage still relies on Strength). This ability cannot be used to perform a combat maneuver. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.
I suppose not being able to do combat maneuvers is a bit limiting, but as a cleric one will not often be specializing in combat maneuvers anyway. Also, you're not likely to get a flanking bonus wielding a weapon this way. Again...not that big of a deal, methinks.
I particularly like the idea of using a Spell Storing weapon to deliver curses and such at range. In fact, I can even see this as being good for an Inquisitor.
Bonus question: since this is a supernatural ability, couldn't you use this to attack with your weapon if you were paralyzed?
There are a couple of ways to approach this. First, Oracles excel at specializing, so decide mechanically what you would like to be doing in and/or out of combat. Secondly, decide who your character is and how they will/should fit in the party (since you already know who they are...who are they, by the way?). For example, the Samsaran could be a decent face or caster focused oracle with Lore or Heavens Mystery, while the Sulis could be a front line fighter (true, not full BAB) with Battle, Metal, or Ancestors Mystery. Want to focus on healing? Go Aasimar with Life Mystery. Want to try to be a blaster? Ifrit with Fire Mystery. You have plenty of options.
I made a Tattooed/Dreamspun sorcerer whose family was tied to a pocket dream realm, something an ancestor created through dreams and willpower. In every generation there are one or more Dreamspun sorcerers born, and upon their death they reside in their familial dreamscape. Through dreams, they teach and guide their living heirs. Each sorcerer gains a familiar tattoo which serves as a balance to their personality...my character was very peaceful, calm, and loving, so he was given a scorpion to make him a bit more defensive and aggressive when need be. To him, his ancestors are real people he speaks to in his lucid dreams often, and he has very real relationships with them...not always good ones.
My RPG group actually ended a GM's game. It wasn't Pathfinder/D&D, but same group that has been/is playing those games. It was actually a Marvel game, where we used a point buy system for balance, and even discussed our characters as a group to make a well rounded, interesting team. Instead of having us fight villains who could face us, he just used his favorites (Taskmaster and Deadpool) and had them consistently "twist slightly to the left" to avoid things like...matter conversion and telekinesis. We were constantly being attacked by weaker villains who 1. always knew where we were somehow, despite us being able to teleport globally, 2. were able to shrug off all manner of attacks and attempts to disable/immobilize them, 3. were themselves beyond the scope of any means of detection/tracking, 4. would reveal themselves to be an impostor if we did somehow manage to defeat them, 5. generally made a group that we had worked together on feel completely useless.
The good news is, after much beer enhanced arguing, we were able to reach an agreement to simply end the campaign and move on to Pathfinder. That GM is even running our RotRL campaign right now, and doing a great job. But we still give him crap to this day..."I'm assuming my Magic Missile hit, unless he 'twisted slightly to the left'".
This sounds amazing! I would love to run/play in a campaign like this.
Personally, the idea of Iomedae getting talked into this, and the champion she would have to pull from her rank. Shaping a follower of Iomedae into a champion of chaos and illusion would be a story in and of itself, a story I'd want to read (or write).
I would also be curious to see the Fool Champion of Nethys...someone shifting from innocent playfulness to mind-numbing terrorclown and back again, throwing around divine and arcane power in an endless stream.
This kind of thing really inspires and rewards creativity in a huge way.
As 2bz2p pointed out, the Summoner gets a lot more use out of this. If you speak Auran, or have some other way to communicate with elementals, a summoned air elemental can scout a fairly large area. a dolphin will have a good idea of what's in that dark lake/pool/etc. thanks to blindsense...i think the point has been sufficiently illustrated that 1) No, you do not have to be in combat because 2)there are any number of other things a summoned monster can do. The real limitation is communication, something easily overcome by speak with animal and/or the language skill.
make a character (assuming a 20 point build) with 6 13's and one 12 ability scores. have them take a level in a different class every time. start with things like rogue and bard for plenty of skill points, and take a variety of relatively useless craft and profession skills. they will be a jack of all trades, but master of absolutely none. however, they will constantly insist that their breadth of knowledge and ability makes them superior...to the party, any npc who will sit still long enough, even the monsters/enemies you are fighting. pick up feats like dodge, endurance, toughness...not entirely useless, but nothing that will really aid them in combat or compensate for how far behind the rest of the party they will be in terms of ability. sure, they will eventually have ok saves and maybe a merely mediocre BAB (although they could theoretically be level 7 or higher with BAB zero), but the difference in power should be glaringly obvious...to anyone but them. at some point they could actually do something useful, though...
I did look around, but haven't found a definitive answer to this question...when you swap out a monk ability, to you gain JUST ONE ki ability at the appropriate level or do you have the option of using any of those listed for that level? I'm reasonably certain it's the latter, but I would like to see an official ruling. A friend of mine is making a Qinggong Monk for a campaign we'll be starting soon, and he seems confused about how the archetype works.
Hmm, an ideal party? Normally I would say a mix of clerics and inquisitors, but no repeats, so...
1. A Zen Archer 1/Inquisitor(Preacher) X of Irori with Restoration subdomain. He takes Wisdom in the Flesh trait to get Disable Device as a class skill, applying wisdom instead of dex. Excellent ranged damage, and Preacher and Restoration give him some abilities the whole party can appreciate.
2. Aasimar Life Oracle X with Scion of Humanity and Deathless. Arguably (please don't argue) the best healer, we can at least agree he is very good at what he does. Focused on buffs and generally keeping people alive, it will take a lot to bring down his allies.
3. Sword and Board Paladin X. There are plenty of builds to make Paladins a hearty front-line fighter/tank. If you're fighting evil, and you probably are, the Paladin has a lot to offer.
4. Summoner X. A vanilla Summoner offers some great battlefield control without having to do anything fancy. At low levels the Eidolon can be a great front line fighter, and later the summons will fill the gap as the Eidolon's combat effectiveness falls a bit behind. At later levels you could change the Eidolon into a skill monkey, or a mount, or...whatever. Also, there aren't many feats a Summoner really NEEDS to be good, so invest in some crafting feats and outfit your party on the cheap.
5. Arcane Sorcerer X. I'm not going to argue about the superiority of Wizards over Sorcerers...this is really just personal preference. Even with the Summoner, you'll need an arcane caster, as Summoners have so few spells per day. It's possible to optimize a build for max damage at low levels that still has plenty to offer at higher levels. Evocation isn't just for blasting.
6. Monk X. If you still need someone to fill in the gaps, why not Monk? Go Flowing for battlefield control, Master of Many Styles for multiple unarmed damage types, Zen Archer if you need more ranged damage (with the other 5...do you really?), or Martial Artist to avoid stuffy alignment restrictions and just punch things really hard.
Most combinations of these in 4 or 5 will still be freakin awesome.
Half-orc drag queen Inquisitor of Shelyn with the Love domain. Takes ranks in Perform and Intimidate, focuses on Dazzling Display. Only dresses in drag for performances...maybe a little charcoal for the eyes when going into battle. When something tries to attack him, he waves his finger and uses his Love domain ability (will save or can't attack) and says "Oh no you didn't." Snap.
I'd do a zen archer/inquisitor of Irori with Restoration domain. Even just one level of zen archer makes them a capable archer, and they will still be competent at healing if you need it. Take the Wisdom in the Flesh trait and make Disable Device a class skill. As previously stated, Preacher Inquisitor works best for ranged builds. You will be infinitely useful, and I daresay you'll have a lot of fun with it. If you're leery of lawful alignments, Aasimars have a racial trait that allows them to be TN or NG. To answer your question, though...
1. Fighter TWF
My favorite was from 3.5...Jasper, the Spirit Shaman with his blue bear spirit guide Baloo. He was a peace loving pothead who spoke like Bill and Ted era Keanu. He was always talking to Baloo, who no one else could see, which combined with his herb smoking led most to believe he was insane. He wasn't much at low levels, but once our group started fighting incorporeal undead he had his chance to shine. Soon he was summoning dire wolves and dominating the battlefield with his magic, all while chuckling softly to himself. Sadly, the Keanu voice caused him to be banned by all current DMs and so I was not able to revive him in Pathfinder...until I ran my own campaign and made him a Heavens Oracle.
I'm playing a cleric of Nethys with the Knowledge and Wards domains. I'm 4th level, and I have some time and money available to make a few scrolls. I was thinking maybe ten 2nd level scrolls, but really going back and forth about which ones. What do you think are some handy, possibly situational, spells to have on hand as scrolls? Definitely Lesser Restoration...but then what?
Relevant info: Heading into 2nd book of Rise of the Runelords. Party of five with myself, A sword and board pally, a dervish dancer bard, a bladebound magus, and a zen archer. I have an owl familiar through Eldritch Heritage.