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He was moaning about the Sorceress before the fight (basically he didn't like necromancy and mind controlled servants)and he had just seen her kill a lots of people (admittedly people who were trying to kill her) his character clearly wanted her gone, we were both on the same page about that.


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There was politics going on (arcane power vacuum)and we had been given sufficient evidence attacking her would end badly (the previous group that tried to kill her) but it was an opportunity I just couldn't just pass up especially given she was treating us like pawns and moronic as it seemed my character had his own aspirations of claiming the deceased sorcerer's tower for himself which could come to nothing with her in the way. Basically I saw the opportunity to skip waiting half a year (and several levels) to get what my character wanted.


It was definitely more of a spur of the moment thing.


So my third level party encountered an evil higher level sorceress (a necro-bunny) and were running errands for her when she was attacked by a truly prodigious number of enemies which she disposed with a truly malevolent alacrity. Our party paladin had been moaning about the sorceress being evil and I knew she had better equipment for my character and I thought that after she had used quite a few spells to kill the mob we might stand a chance.

So I had my character do something I knew would probably get him killed and casted hold person on her with the paladin adjacent to her and it actually worked.

So our paladin had his turn and he could have killed the evil sorceress with a coup de gras with my character egging him on to finish it, and he did nothing and she made her save and the rest was really messy for the party.

So yes the party wipe was my fault but seriously what the hell I gift wrap the paladin a chance to smite evil ......... and he stands there uselessly.

So which of us do you think made the bigger mistake.

To be fair I expected she would just kill my character and was a little surprised when she just blasted the entire party to smithereens. It was one of those occasions where I thought you would either pull off a coup or win a darwin award, both of which outcomes would have amused me.


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What does a "non-wuxia" high-level fighter look like?

Possible Answers: Freaking Spectacular
Massively Dangerous
Faster than a speeding arrow
More powerful than a dozen storm giants.
A master of a hundred styles and a thousand weapons
Capable of cleaving all those who look oppose him/her in twain

Also his/her presence scares everyone who is not a high powered angel, demon, esper, or cartoon villain from an evil syndicate into submission because life is too short to deal with the likes of him/her even if you can technically live forever.


I generally play defensive builds and defensive character who tend to stay back and not die, this means my character has watched 3 of his original buddies die, as well as two of their replacements and I am wondering if I should start roleplaying my character as being affected by all this death and how to avoid going down a melodramatic PTSD route for it.


So assuming your campaign turns up to have a high degree of lethality because your GM wants things to be dark (because why not) and uber serious other that setting up a death-pool and generally finding morbid humour in it what other ways do you think Grizzled vets would find to distract themselves from the fact they are probably going die before the year's out?


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Nah to be honest the thread was prompted by the my queen just told me to murder someone paladin thread. Which amused me because a Queen that would think that a paladin would be game for a bit of extra-curricular murder doesn't know him very well. But too be honest the easiest solution to said problem is too get the inevitable chaotic neutral other pc to do it that way keeping the paladin's hands clean and keeping the queen happy.


Deadmanwalking wrote:
Nicos wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
Wind Chime wrote:
It is fairly common for characters to be faced with no win moral scenarios and situations and for situations where the smart answer is the opposite of the moral answer. Now this goes doubly for paladins who are barred from taking the smart choice on pains of losing their class abilities.

This is not accurate, IME. It can certainly be made true by GMs...but I'd generally characterize those GMs as bad GMs.

Exactly why?

Because it's lazy and railroad-y.

Very rarely in real life are there only two options of any sort, much less only a moral option and a 'smart' option, so making that sort of situation tends to necessitate some heavy-handed GM intervention to make all the other solutions to the problem except those two fail.

But they do happen fairly often in times of plague, siege, and war. Which aren't particularly uncommon in most rp settings.


It is fairly common for characters to be faced with no win moral scenarios and situations and for situations where the smart answer is the opposite of the moral answer. Now this goes doubly for paladins who are barred from taking the smart choice on pains of losing their class abilities.

But most Paladin's are surrounded by people that are less moral than them and this can cause inter party conflict, so if a paladin decides to walk way from the decisions/ busy himself elsewhere and his party decides to make the smart decision can he be held accountable for it? Can he fall for not stopping his companions committing a potentially evil act?


The unchained summoners slam evolution says you can take it as many times as you have the limbs arms evolution. The claws evolution pretty much says the same (except with one leg option). So assuming for the sake of simplicity you are a thing eidiolon (just an arms evolution nothing else) could you take both the claws and slam evolution?


So I have tried to compare how powerful the new eidolon is compared to Animal Companion, and I have found that I can not make an Unchained Eidolon that is better than the Ape Companion at level 4 or the big cat companion at 7 for combat usefulness. Can anyone else.

Big Cat Level 7

Size Large; Speed 40 ft.; AC 26 (with full plate barding) Attack bite +10 (1d6+7), +10 2 claws (1d4); Ability Scores Str 24, Dex 15, Con 17, Int 2, Wis 15, Cha 10; Special Attacks rake (1d4); Special Qualities low-light vision, scent.

Feats: Power Attack, Toughness

Ape Level 4

Size Large; Speed 30 ft., climb 30 ft.; AC +6 natural armor; Attack bite (1d4+6), 2 claws (1d4+6); Ability Scores Str 22, Dex 15, Con 14, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 7; Special Qualities low-light vision, scent.


Does anyone else find it funny that bad kitty eidolons (pounce claw monsters) are still the most effective type of combat eidolon even using unchained rules.

I mean I know the bad kitty eidolons are considerably weaker (like 10 points of strength and do downgraded damage dice weaker) but is still the most effective thing you can do with an eidolon.

In fact given there are less evolutions in total and a lot of the flavor ones are gone I imagine kitty eidolons aren't going to be any less prevalent.

Also has anyone done the mAths to see how the new eidolon compares to the dire tiger cause I could easily perceive of higher level games where you pouncing eidolon gets entirely sidelined by your awesome smiting tiggers.


I don't know they obviously see the summoners class as being utterly broken, so much so they didn't mind insulting 90% of there fanbase by banning before they could have access to the replacement. If it was that bad to begin with then it probably shouldn't have been released to begin with.


Yer does seem a little cheap in the summoners case asking people to pay for what is clearly errata.


Rynjin wrote:

Druids have fairly subtle magic, and Bernard was a strong mid-tier Furycrafter.

Just stick mostly to buffs and he'll be fine.

Though, Bernard even pulls off some stuff only a high level Druid can do in the books. For example, World Wave is a 9th level spell, and IIRC he could do the "riding a groundswell" thing from book 1.

Aye powerful but he is no Araris Valerian.


Rynjin wrote:

That's a tough one.

He might work well as a Druid, and so Summon Nature's Ally for some Elementals whenever his Furies appear.

The Nature Fang archetype probably works well. Trades Wild Shape for the Slayer's Studied Target, so he gets a to-hit/damage boost that makes up for the 3/4 BaB.

That is a pretty good archetype for him he probably will be too strong a caster in the later levels for the character concept but that is really disadvantage for a player.


I wanted to play a character based on Bernard from Codex Alera, I was hoping for build advice.

Basically Bernard a master archer who has bonded with two fury's (elementals) one of stone and the other of wood, the stone fury takes the form of a large stone dog (earth glide etc) and the wood fury takes a humanoid shape. Bernard has magic but only really earth and stone magic.

So what would be my best bet for getting as close the character as possible ?


If a wizard used form of the Dragon 3 on his tiny familiar to turn it into a huge dragon would it increase the familiar strength by 10 (as described by the spell based on the assumption of medium creature). Or by 14 (including the +4 to strength from moving g from tiny to medium)?


So how does the new unchained eidolons compare to the humble mixed martial artist mauler fox familiar purely in turns of the old ultraviolence?

Also how do lions, and Apes compare at 4 and 7 respectively.


I have always thought that a displacer beast works just fine for getting the max amounts of limbs without looking silly.


Mikaze wrote:

Butts are purely flavor. You don't need mechanical support for butts.

Any eidolon you make can have as many butts as you want. They can even have no butts at all. The only limitation is your imagination and the good will of your gaming group, which may or may not have an aversion to butts or certain quantities and qualities of butts.

You can certainly tie those butts into some of the eidolon's abilities, but it isn't a requirement; just as you need no evolution to say your angel eidolon has three eyes, neither do you need one to justify the floating disembodied butts circling him like an 80's videogame power-up. They just won't have any mechanical function without one.

Oh I see so the developers aren't annoyed about a particular evolution being broken they are annoyed about a class having lots of customization and license.


One of the things that I read in the unchained thread is talk of a tentacled gelatenous ediolon with two butts now I know there are tentacle evolutions and I believe there is an ooze evolution but I can't seem to find anywhere a butt evolution, I know it's an asinine question and I do t want to be the butt of anyone jokes but which book is it in and what does it do.


LazarX wrote:
Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:
I never understood why there is such a hate for paladins. They are powerful, yes, but they are also the ones who are meant to throw themselves in harms way, to do all they can to ensure the good for all, protect life, help the innocent, and ensure that goodness in the world survives. My groups have never had an issue with paladins (only with who might be playing them, as they might not be up to the challenge).

It's not so hard really. We live in more cynical times, and we live in a culture that preaches self-indulgence. We find the concept of Boy Scout heroes like Clark Kent to be rather silly. Or their presence holds up a brutal mirror into what we've become, and challenges the ways we now validate ourselves.

So it's not surprising that we look for the flaw, the thing that will expose these four-color heroes for the falsities we feel they must be.

History pretty much proves people weren't more moralistic and nice to each other in the past, your falling into the trap of every generation of panicking about the morality of youth whilst wearing rose tinted spectacles about what went on with past generations. Not even the knights of the round table came close to being as inhumanily good as a d&d paladin is meant to be.


If you use a vital strike to deliver a held shocking grasp spell via spellstrike would the shocking grasp damage be multiplied.


The thing is I am having a great time playing a genre blind toff who ponces into every situation and yes dies quite often, I am just worried that I am peeving my gm.


I have been playing in a hyper-lethal game of throne type game that my cm is clearly aiming to be as dark and bloody as possible. So after dying a couple of times I have lost the ability not to find the whole campaign hilarious and have just been having fun hamming it up. This seems to passing off my gm but I just can't seem to get into the right frame of mind. So does anyone have any tips on how to get into the right mindset for a gothic style game?


Would an Eldritch Guardian's familiar have full BAB (like his own) or half BAB (like an equal level wizard would have?)


I am wondering what do people think the follow through of the release of Pathfinder unchained with be on Pathfinder society. I mean I believe the developers have stated that the new material is not errata but new material so does that means a new material it will not be allowed in the PFS core only games (as it is no content) even though it is meant to balance and make the system better.

What about normal PFS will the Old classes and new classes live side by side, so could you have a presumably much weaker unchained summoner in the same party as a traditional summoner? How do people think it will play out?


The real questions is though how good would a +1 flaming frying pan be at cooking eggs. Is 1d6 flame damage enough temperature to do the job or would you need a fireplace after all.


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Those leeches are bad-ass they could kill a colossal Great Wyrm in under a minute, they could probably kill the giants themselves in under 30 seconds.


won't somebody please think of the children


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Most of my barbarians would have at least chucked some daggers at there feet to see if they attack, if they do problem solved you kill them in self defence. if not then you take them to the nearest village that the orcs have raided and hand the in to the village elder and let the village decide what to do with them.


Warpers are meant to have insane tunnel vision.


Lesser elemental have 4 int so can they read any languages they speak?


Generally summoning is one of the most broken things in the game I feel an action limit is something which should be imposed on all pets and summoner users not just summoners. If it is only put on summoners it would be unfair.

It seems the spiritualist is probably where they are going with the un-chained summoner.


Artanthos wrote:
Wind Chime wrote:

So I was wondering what people think unchained will do the the summoner obviously they intend to nurf both the eidolon and probably the spell list. So assuming they do bring summoners spellcasting in line with other 2/3 casters what would people think would be the right power level for an eidolon.

In my mind the power level aught to be higher than an equivalent level summoned creature or animal companion, otherwise the summoner will end up just being an inferior sorcerer (who can get summons and animal companions and full casting).

The perfect power level would be something that is stronger than an equivalent levelled summoned monster and weaker than an equivalently level rogue. So I was wandering what would actually fit into that particular power niche?

My prediction:

Both the summoner and barbarian will be nerfed. The summoner nerfs will be wildly embraced by most people not playing a summoner. The barbarian nerfs will be reviled and rejected in most games.

Completely ignoring the fact that barbarian is currently a stronger class than summoner.

The barbarian isn't really any stronger than a paladin so it doesn't seem due a nerf. I imagine the one major nerf both classes will share is the removal of pounce. Leaving that only as an option for druids.


Ssalarn wrote:

My guess is that instead of the current grab-bag of evolutions, they'll have specific themed eidolons you can summon based on different creature archetypes.

On the spell front, hard to say what they'll do. Personally, I'd prefer they get rid of their Summon Monster SLA completely and then give them a very specific list of spells to draw from on a standard 9 level spread. Make the summon monster spells an automatic part of their spells known progression, like cure or inflict spells are for the Oracle.

You know I am a little sad about that the protean nature of eidolon's was really the only truly unique thing summoners have, all casters can summon outsiders but only Summoner's get their own unique elderich abomination. The fact that the summoner will probably lose the ability to summon Rincewind's luggage or obscure tentacled horrors from Japanese folklore because they don't fit into a common archetype will be a real loss for the class.


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So I was wondering what people think unchained will do the the summoner obviously they intend to nurf both the eidolon and probably the spell list. So assuming they do bring summoners spellcasting in line with other 2/3 casters what would people think would be the right power level for an eidolon.

In my mind the power level aught to be higher than an equivalent level summoned creature or animal companion, otherwise the summoner will end up just being an inferior sorcerer (who can get summons and animal companions and full casting).

The perfect power level would be something that is stronger than an equivalent levelled summoned monster and weaker than an equivalently level rogue. So I was wandering what would actually fit into that particular power niche?


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So it looks like Pummeling Charge could stack with spirited charge if you are punching of horseback for double your total damage because pummeling charge counts as just one big hit. Does this work and is it too cheesy to use?


Level 6 Strength 26 (+2 item +4 rage)
12+3(furious)+ 2-12 = 17-27


Mergy wrote:
Okay, but did the paladin fall?

No but he was knocked prone.


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Tarantula wrote:
Wind Chime wrote:
Tarantula wrote:
Did you actually kill him outright with your last hit? Or were you just able to drop him into the negatives and then kept swinging anyway?
I think he had about 10hp before my last hit.
So you did 24+ on a single hit? (assuming a fighter would have at least a 14 CON)

Pretty much, he was raging wielding a magical great sword.


Tarantula wrote:
Did you actually kill him outright with your last hit? Or were you just able to drop him into the negatives and then kept swinging anyway?

I think he had about 10hp before my last hit.


Lune wrote:
You could have withdrawn in the caster's direction. Why are we just getting these details now by the way? I think you are trying to make excuses TO attack your friend and not enough NOT TO.

And then my character would have been charged by the fighter (charges get double movement)and been in the exact same situation with less hp next round.

Which admittedly is totally besides the point because i should have gone non-lethal my character needed to neutralize the the threat of the fighter so he could get back to the fight as soon as possible, I choice lethal and it did the job but non-lethal would probably have worked just as well and avoided an argument.


Lune wrote:

With a Barbarian your best defense is a good offense. This is true. It is just a matter of where you direct that offense. You could have attacked the source of the problem. The source of the problem was NOT your friend. I believe you know that and it would be hard for your character to not know that as well.

Or, as everyone else suggested: you could have struck for non-lethal damage. That was the correct thing to do if you are dead set on attacking a party member.

How exactly could I have struck at the source of the problem the caster was 50ft away and not in a straight line I could have disengaged but then the fighter would have charged me and hit again leaving me either dead or the same problem next round.


I can't really agree that I was looking for PvP it was self-defence against vs a very dangerous opponent (his full attacks are nuts) controlled by the gm. One who had attack first without warning and who would have killed my character if he had another turn.


Should the Palladin fall?

Only if he forgot to prepare fly.


Beating A Dead Horse wrote:
Man, I haven't seen one of these in like a week or so...

Did you create that account solely for this thread, if so well played.


The fighters player was peeved because I killed his player and he had to sit out the rest of the session as no one had prepped a rez spell. The gm was peeved because I had been complaining about how much I disliked mind control spells and he saw my decision as an attempt to stir on the issue. Mainly it was just unfair imo accusations of pvp.

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