Don't mind Aranna, she's always like that.
Nice to know that. I was wondering about the level of hostility in the reply. Looking back I over reacted. I should be use to message board chatter by now.
Some people come on to vent and chuck a shit.
Nice to know that. I was wondering about the level of hostility in the reply. Looking back I over reacted. I should be use to message board chatter by now.
Don't mind Aranna, she's always like that.
Hey... I am not always like that. I bounce between helpful advice and "make a stand" style snark, sometimes all in the same post. I am not being hostile, it's just my internet voice.
Oh great, there are two of them... now, where's the bag with teeth to chime in? :D Well, I'll just adjust my post reading and keep that in mind.
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I have never walked out on a DM in over 30 years of play. But recently I had wanted to more than ever before in my years playing. I was sitting at hasturs in salt lake city playing a game of PFS when the DM who is also the venture captain sat there and told us how he runs 4 different groups a week and he usually only reads our scenarios once over a few minutes before the game. We sat there and made fun of him most of the game and the whole group got together and talked about it for weeks following the game about how it was apparent he never planned for our games but never seemed to want to acknowledge that his dm skills were poor and he was not giving us the types of games we wanted. luckily for him only 2 of us quit the 2 experienced players and one stayed to try to help him out while the rest of the group were all noobs and didn't really know any better.
It saddens me because he is the main face of pfs for the salt lake valley.
You know, you can always volunteer to run games there yourself...just sayin :)
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I've haven't walked out on a DM yet (hopefully I'll never need to), nor have I had anyone walk out on my games. Our current group is quite a good bunch for getting along.
In an old group, we collectively stopped playing in a game once and told the DM that if he couldn't do his role properly then someone else will have to take over.
We only did that because the story was getting thrown to one side and it turned into nothing but an endless chain of encounters with no real goal.
I have had to kick a player out once for using feats he shouldn't have had and refused to change them to something more suitable; we started the campaign with characters being made from the core rules and one supplement book, but he decided to use a set of completely different books that we weren't playing from.
A handy thing for a DM do when running a game is to print out a brief list/table of the player's base stats and feats & traits with notes on what they do so they can glance at them for reminders.
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I walked out on a battle as a DM once.
Was trying out a white wolf game, actually. We didn't know the system, it was a learning experience for all of us.
One guy had chosen his human would have the occupation "assassin". He somehow got the idea that this occupation invalidated the fact that he was a new and inexperienced characters, and automatically game him +10 point of awesome bada$$ness versus all enemies. They were going after a gang with a vampire leading them. The rest of the group, three or four players, all start making their way through a gang infested building. The assassin decides he needs to climb the fire escape to the top of the building. He ends up facing the boss vampire alone.
The initiative of the group ended up having half the people climing up the stairs move,d then the assassin had his turn, then the rest of the people on the stairs moved. Because it was a little annoying, the people with the low initiative held their actions (essentially "lost a turn") in order to group their initiative with the other half of the group climbing the stairs.
The assassin player lost it, saying they were cheating to go "before" him. We all spent, literally, 20 minutes explaining that they didn't "go before" him, they waited so long to move that he almost lapped them, in a sense.
finally he would let us move on the with the game - after I pulled the card "Look, I'm running the game, an to get things moving again, I say it works this way. Drop it". I hate pulling that card - I would rather we get to a place where we all at least sort of agree. The group on the stairs is fighting their way up, and then it's his turn again...
And he starts complaining about how we're cheating by letting other people "cut in front" of him again.
At that point I was so upset, I called the session off, apologized to the other players, and went home.
I walked out on a battle as a DM once.
Was trying out a white wolf game, actually. We didn't know the system, it was a learning experience for all of us.
One guy had chosen his human would have the occupation "assassin". He somehow got the idea that this occupation invalidated the fact that he was a new and inexperienced characters, and automatically game him +10 point of awesome bada$$ness versus all enemies. They were going after a gang with a vampire leading them. The rest of the group, three or four players, all start making their way through a gang infested building. The assassin decides he needs to climb the fire escape to the top of the building. He ends up facing the boss vampire alone.
The initiative of the group ended up having half the people climing up the stairs move,d then the assassin had his turn, then the rest of the people on the stairs moved. Because it was a little annoying, the people with the low initiative held their actions (essentially "lost a turn") in order to group their initiative with the other half of the group climbing the stairs.
The assassin player lost it, saying they were cheating to go "before" him. We all spent, literally, 20 minutes explaining that they didn't "go before" him, they waited so long to move that he almost lapped them, in a sense.
finally he would let us move on the with the game - after I pulled the card "Look, I'm running the game, an to get things moving again, I say it works this way. Drop it". I hate pulling that card - I would rather we get to a place where we all at least sort of agree. The group on the stairs is fighting their way up, and then it's his turn again...
And he starts complaining about how we're cheating by letting other people "cut in front" of him again.
At that point I was so upset, I called the session off, apologized to the other players, and went home.
Ouch trying out (or even better, creating) new systems can make this sort of problem all the more frequent.
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Ouch trying out (or even better, creating) new systems can make this sort of problem all the more frequent.
Yeah. This guy was always a problem player. Generally the best games were the ones where he fell asleep and we ignored him for the session. I don't think the concept of "they're not going before you, they're going so far after you, you've almost had an extra turn they've missed" is impossible to grasp for most people, but evidently it was for him. Talking about how, after the first turn, turns are cyclical and every other strategy paled in comparison to his opinion that his character had been "robbed" of his awesomeness somehow. O.o The mind. It boggles.
Fortunately, in our attempt to insist that he get his narcolepsy seen to (so bad he'd fall asleep while at stop lights regularly) before we would participate in a game with him across town, he decided we were terrible people and cut off all contact. I guess his friends in the group felt bad about it. I felt mostly relief.
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Ouch trying out (or even better, creating) new systems can make this sort of problem all the more frequent.Yeah. This guy was always a problem player. Generally the best games were the ones where he fell asleep and we ignored him for the session. I don't think the concept of "they're not going before you, they're going so far after you, you've almost had an extra turn they've missed" is impossible to grasp for most people, but evidently it was for him. Talking about how, after the first turn, turns are cyclical and every other strategy paled in comparison to his opinion that his character had been "robbed" of his awesomeness somehow. O.o The mind. It boggles.
Fortunately, in our attempt to insist that he get his narcolepsy seen to (so bad he'd fall asleep while at stop lights regularly) before we would participate in a game with him across town, he decided we were terrible people and cut off all contact. I guess his friends in the group felt bad about it. I felt mostly relief.
Is there a particular reason why you continued to play with this dude?
Ouch trying out (or even better, creating) new systems can make this sort of problem all the more frequent.I walked out on a battle as a DM once.
Was trying out a white wolf game, actually. We didn't know the system, it was a learning experience for all of us.
One guy had chosen his human would have the occupation "assassin". He somehow got the idea that this occupation invalidated the fact that he was a new and inexperienced characters, and automatically game him +10 point of awesome bada$$ness versus all enemies. They were going after a gang with a vampire leading them. The rest of the group, three or four players, all start making their way through a gang infested building. The assassin decides he needs to climb the fire escape to the top of the building. He ends up facing the boss vampire alone.
The initiative of the group ended up having half the people climing up the stairs move,d then the assassin had his turn, then the rest of the people on the stairs moved. Because it was a little annoying, the people with the low initiative held their actions (essentially "lost a turn") in order to group their initiative with the other half of the group climbing the stairs.
The assassin player lost it, saying they were cheating to go "before" him. We all spent, literally, 20 minutes explaining that they didn't "go before" him, they waited so long to move that he almost lapped them, in a sense.
finally he would let us move on the with the game - after I pulled the card "Look, I'm running the game, an to get things moving again, I say it works this way. Drop it". I hate pulling that card - I would rather we get to a place where we all at least sort of agree. The group on the stairs is fighting their way up, and then it's his turn again...
And he starts complaining about how we're cheating by letting other people "cut in front" of him again.
At that point I was so upset, I called the session off, apologized to the other players, and went home.
But new systems can allow you to find a sweet spot. I can't believe we have been doing it the other way for so long. This is far better here here and here. New systems can be great fun.
...Ouch trying out (or even better, creating) new systems can make this sort of problem allI walked out on a battle as a DM once.
Was trying out a white wolf game, actually. We didn't know the system, it was a learning experience for all of us.
One guy had chosen his human would have the occupation "assassin". He somehow got the idea that this occupation invalidated the fact that he was a new and inexperienced characters, and automatically game him +10 point of awesome bada$$ness versus all enemies. They were going after a gang with a vampire leading them. The rest of the group, three or four players, all start making their way through a gang infested building. The assassin decides he needs to climb the fire escape to the top of the building. He ends up facing the boss vampire alone.
The initiative of the group ended up having half the people climing up the stairs move,d then the assassin had his turn, then the rest of the people on the stairs moved. Because it was a little annoying, the people with the low initiative held their actions (essentially "lost a turn") in order to group their initiative with the other half of the group climbing the stairs.
The assassin player lost it, saying they were cheating to go "before" him. We all spent, literally, 20 minutes explaining that they didn't "go before" him, they waited so long to move that he almost lapped them, in a sense.
finally he would let us move on the with the game - after I pulled the card "Look, I'm running the game, an to get things moving again, I say it works this way. Drop it". I hate pulling that card - I would rather we get to a place where we all at least sort of agree. The group on the stairs is fighting their way up, and then it's his turn again...
And he starts complaining about how we're cheating by letting other people "cut in front" of him again.
At that point I was so upset, I called the session off, apologized to the other players, and went home.
Oh, for sure. I actually try out weird conversions for the basic d20 rules on a regular basis: starting with something pretty close to the d20/Pathfinder standard and gradually working away from it until it fits the exact setting. I only do it with my close friends/regular players, however. They're much less likely to get upset when I get something wrong or decide to change a rule. Currently, I'm working on modern-day psychics sort of thing that has powers rationed by combat/opponent instead of strictly by day (this is the subject for another time space, though).
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Is there a particular reason why you continued to play with this dude?
I guess his friends in the group felt bad about itThis probably answers your question.
Bingo. :)
Yeah, we were trying out Hunter for a change of pace. I like trying out new systems, but it can be a lot of work for a group that comfortable with what they have.
I can't be sure I was doing everything according to the rules. In the interest of keeping the game engaging for the players I would fudge stuff if I couldnt' remember how the rules worked or a quick rule book check left me unsure. I'd planned to look up all the specific questions I had to fake later to get better. But that horrible session left such a bad taste in everyone's moutch we just dropped it. I still have the book. Hmmm. Might be worth digging out again.
this guy was just...an awful player. He'd be on sex chat rooms on his laptop during sessions. he claimed it helped him "stay awake". >_< and he would do stupid stuff with his character all the time. He was one of those guys that would do horribly suicidal things because if he rolled all 20's, something awesome would happen. And if the DM let his character die, it was all horribly unfair, blah blah.
This was exacerbated because the DM when I joined the group was bad. Horribad. He created a giant with an always on antimagic field...in a 120' line...across a 100' wide bottomless cavern, standing on a pillar of stone,with a 5' wide stone bridge. Oh yeah, and the giant's not under the antimagic field effects. We were unable to turn back, and had to go forward. Annoying dude sent his barbarian raging across the bridge, and was killed by the AOO. Since this was blantantly a DM power trip, the rest of us backed the "WTH!" comments he had. I think this encouraged him to think that he generally didn't deserve to lose a character when he made it do suicidal things.
To bring this back on topic, we pretty much walked out on that DM at that point. :)
Ah so it was Hunter. I thought so. That's probably your first mistake lol. I bought it but when I really looked over it it was kind of a pointless game as everything was sooo underpowered there was no way you'd ever do more than kill a neonate. Maybe Ancilae at best. It was also before integration so you'd have to know Vampire to be able to play that at all.
Either way being on sex chat rooms at a session is strange behavior..I don't know what type of friends you have to be friends with this guy .
Hunter the reckoning is a very hard game to play. Power gamers hated it, and as that was what comprised a lot of the fanbase at the time(as evidencd above), it created a lot of problems. I truly enjoyed the story they were trying to tell, and only found a group openminded enough to play it once. It was meant to be low survivability, and the group understood that.
I liked the H; TR video games that came out back in the early 2000's. They were like Gauntlet, but with guns and spells.
Yeah it was interesting.
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Hunter the reckoning is a very hard game to play. Power gamers hated it, and as that was what comprised a lot of the fanbase at the time(as evidencd above), it created a lot of problems. I truly enjoyed the story they were trying to tell, and only found a group openminded enough to play it once. It was meant to be low survivability, and the group understood that.Ah so it was Hunter. I thought so. That's probably your first mistake lol. I bought it but when I really looked over it it was kind of a pointless game as everything was sooo underpowered there was no way you'd ever do more than kill a neonate. Maybe Ancilae at best. It was also before integration so you'd have to know Vampire to be able to play that at all.
Either way being on sex chat rooms at a session is strange behavior..I don't know what type of friends you have to be friends with this guy .
Wait, you had power gamers in storyteller system? How?
Wait, you had power gamers in storyteller system? How?Hunter the reckoning is a very hard game to play. Power gamers hated it, and as that was what comprised a lot of the fanbase at the time(as evidencd above), it created a lot of problems. I truly enjoyed the story they were trying to tell, and only found a group openminded enough to play it once. It was meant to be low survivability, and the group understood that.Ah so it was Hunter. I thought so. That's probably your first mistake lol. I bought it but when I really looked over it it was kind of a pointless game as everything was sooo underpowered there was no way you'd ever do more than kill a neonate. Maybe Ancilae at best. It was also before integration so you'd have to know Vampire to be able to play that at all.
Either way being on sex chat rooms at a session is strange behavior..I don't know what type of friends you have to be friends with this guy .
are you being sarcastic or are you serious? Most serious power gamers went to the storyteller system to get their Jones. Possibly because white wolf really didn't playtest their stuff too much.
Wait, you had power gamers in storyteller system? How?
People find a way. Best not to question it.
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are you being sarcastic or are you serious? Most serious power gamers went to the storyteller system to get their Jones. Possibly because white wolf really didn't playtest their stuff too much.Wait, you had power gamers in storyteller system? How?Hunter the reckoning is a very hard game to play. Power gamers hated it, and as that was what comprised a lot of thMme fanbase at the time(as evidencd above), it created a lot of problems. I truly enjoyed the story they were trying to tell, and only found a group openminded enough to play it once. It was meant to be low survivability, and the group understood that.Ah so it was Hunter. I thought so. That's probably your first mistake lol. I bought it but when I really looked over it it was kind of a pointless game as everything was sooo underpowered there was no way you'd ever do more than kill a neonate. Maybe Ancilae at best. It was also before integration so you'd have to know Vampire to be able to play that at all.
Either way being on sex chat rooms at a session is strange behavior..I don't know what type of friends you have to be friends with this guy .
I am deadly serious. Back when we played Vampire and werewolf, people who claimed to be storyteller powergamers were laughed at.
I'm really interested. How.
I don't know much about Whitewolf but in other more story-teller systems I've played, when people want to power game, they power game. In some cases, it's even easier to abuse a system that isn't designed for people who want to be as effective at X as possible because it isn't prepared for that.
are you being sarcastic or are you serious? Most serious power gamers went to the storyteller system to get their Jones. Possibly because white wolf really didn't playtest their stuff too much.Wait, you had power gamers in storyteller system? How?Hunter the reckoning is a very hard game to play. Power gamers hated it, and as that was what comprised a lot of thMme fanbase at the time(as evidencd above), it created a lot of problems. I truly enjoyed the story they were trying to tell, and only found a group openminded enough to play it once. It was meant to be low survivability, and the group understood that.Ah so it was Hunter. I thought so. That's probably your first mistake lol. I bought it but when I really looked over it it was kind of a pointless game as everything was sooo underpowered there was no way you'd ever do more than kill a neonate. Maybe Ancilae at best. It was also before integration so you'd have to know Vampire to be able to play that at all.
Either way being on sex chat rooms at a session is strange behavior..I don't know what type of friends you have to be friends with this guy .
I am deadly serious. Back when we played Vampire and werewolf, people who claimed to be storyteller powergamers were laughed at.
I'm really interested. How.
its not that hard. Stupid vis tricks, stupid potence tricks, and stupid celerity tricks were all you needed in vampire, careful selection of physical stats were all you needed in werewolf (also the talens background could work wonders), more than two dots in a sphere in Mage, the background in changling that could be abused for almost unlimited glamour, and a hell of a lot of resources background in Hunter. The system was easy to break. The key to having fun with it was gaming with people who knew this and agreed not to go crazy. This was incredibly hard to work out irl however.
The only game I've ever played that couldn't be power gamed was Cthulhu, at least the version we ran.
You have to survive first in order to power game Cthulhu.
Considering how much GM Fiat is given in WW games, the system isn't that easy to break unless you have a spineless Storyteller that lets you get away with every interpretation you have for the rules.
I liked the idea of Werewolf and Hunter, and I didn't need to be a god to play it...but on SOME level you have to be able to actually make a DENT in the system. Hunter was a bunch of unremarkable mortals who could have no impact on the WoD unless you really bent the system to make them better. Same with Werewolf. A bunch of hippie furballs living in the woods that there is NO way they could put a dent in the system that vampires have created. You should at least be able to feel like you're making SOME difference.
yeah were not going to agree on this. This is nothing more than the soft defense of power gaming I've seen in ww games since their inception.
I unfortunately don't have the text in front of me but, again, WoD books if I remember correctly gave pretty explicit power to the Storyteller because there was so much grey area. If you don't use it to reel the game in and let players go crazy then that's the Storyteller's fault.
There are some things that really deserved houseruling like Celerity. It should be pretty obvious that letting someone easily attack (5?) times a round is a mistake.
yeah the old "its the storytellers fault!!!". Man that takes me back.
Anyway, back to DM mistakes...
Oh, also, when I first started DMing, I let characters choose weapon abilities (flaming, frost, etc.) for their magic weapons without have the requisite +1 first. I also would allow off-hand attacks as standard actions.
This wasn't an issue until I had a TWF character that was taking everyone out in one turn that I realized both of these restrictions, while "less cinematic", existed for a reason.
