Can you help me think up some reasons why a dwarf would be a monk? Could you also help me think of some motivations a dwarf monk might have? I'm asking because I like to play dwarves and a zen archer monk seems to work well with dwarves. However I'm having a hard time seeing a dwarf being a monk.
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You have a hard time seeing why a clan based close knit society with isolationist issues wouldn't develop it's own specific methods using the strengths of its people in combat?
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The dwarves, so often toiling in hot forges or deep in cramped tunnels, they know the value of being able to fight barehanded, especially when a rust monster comes for their resources.
The dwarves being lawful in nature, tend to train altogether, some prefer to take the fight up close and personal. Tetori monk would probably be a favorite archetype.
(Zen Archer, not so much in my opionion...I have a hungry ghost monk.)
You have a hard time seeing why a clan based close knit society with isolationist issues wouldn't develop it's own specific methods using the strengths of its people in combat?
I can grasp that however I don't see them being monks. When I think of a dwarf I don't think of robes, self perfection, and meditation. I think of honor, compassion for craftsmanship, stubbornness, and heavy armor. They just don't seem like they would become monks in a regular dwarven society. I also have a hard time imaging an agile dwarf with a bow. I feel as if their ability to manufacture various things should be overlooked when making a dwarf character.
Thank you Magikot but I don't want a stereotypical monk character/hero.
Paramount in Dwarven culture is community, so I wouldn't see a sect of Dwarven Monks cloistered away from the rest of the culture.
Here's the thing: Dwarves that want to fight would become fighters. Dwarves that want to do good works in their community (and fight) become clerics. Add to that that Dwarves are weapon smiths without peer, and it's tough to envision a traditional order of hand to hand fighters.
As for Monk weapons, I have always felt that a flaw in the design of the class was the use of weapons that are alien to the culture around the monastery. Do all of the monk traditions have their basis in Tienish culture? If so, I don't see that influence making its way to the five kings mountains smack in the middle of another continent. If not, what about those weapons is inherently "monkish"?
The dwarves, so often toiling in hot forges or deep in cramped tunnels, they know the value of being able to fight barehanded, especially when a rust monster comes for their resources.
The dwarves being lawful in nature, tend to train altogether, some prefer to take the fight up close and personal. Tetori monk would probably be a favorite archetype.
(Zen Archer, not so much in my opionion...I have a hungry ghost monk.)
Just because they attack things with their barehands doesn't mean they're monks.
But if there was a practical use for the fighting style, the Dwarves would develop it. It also suits the lack of armor in the smithy.
This would not, however, explain fighting with sai or nunchucks, or developing mystical powers.
Because he wants to.
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Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance -- for dwarves.
Personally I like Cheapy's answer the best.
Temple of the Earth Child style
Iron discipline, focused regimen, endless toil while crafting oneself into living weapon, all this could inspire dwarf to become a monk.
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Can you help me think up some reasons why a dwarf would be a monk?
The monk of the sacred mountain archetype, Improved Trip, Greater Trip, and Twin Thunders feat chain (technically, unarmed {fist} strikes are "bludgeoning weapons" that are "wielded" "in each hand").
Since PC's are rarely normal members of a community (or whatever) anyways I don't really see that common cultural stereotypes I don't see that this should be a factor.
I do think that monk weapons should be more regional in flavor though. It's a bit odd when your monk/monestary from the Sodden Lands considers sais from Xa Hoi to be common.
Can you help me think up some reasons why a dwarf would be a monk?
Because beating a goblin with an axe is so easy its cheating. Its degrading to an axe of fine dwarven craftsmanship to be defiled by putting it to such mundane use.
And if you need armor to beat up a giant I want your dwarf pass back. Send out one of the women to show you how to fight and then go take your place with the rest of the pansy elves!
-Dwarves stranded in an area with Limestone caves, and thus few if any metals for making traditional dwarven weapons/armor. (or whose ancestors were and the clan carries on the tradition) Its been 3,000 years sice the exodus and SOME peope still won't let the bread rise!
-Dwarves that spend a lot of time fighting magic users, where armor just slows down the jumping and climbing you need to do to catch the tricky little buggers.
OR dwarves are a diverse lot and can choose to be what they wish. Some classes may be more rare than others, but exceptions do exist and as the heroes, you are exceptional.
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If you read the opening paragraph describing the fluff about monks, it talks about how Pathfinder monks don't need all the Eastern mysticism and cultural baggage we associate with Shaolin monks-- they can be anything from self-taught dockside brawlers to steeped-in-tradition martial artists. Pretty much everything about them fits right in with what dwarves are all about. I don't see any reason why a dwarf wouldn't want to become a monk.
The crunch gives the lie to the fluff. Dockside brawlers fighting with sai or nunchucks?
"While many dwarves possess the discipline to take on the role of monk, most turn to more traditional forms of combat that employ heavy armor and a trusty axe. Most dwarf monks congregate in small enclaves of like-minded individuals." -d20pfsrd
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Dwarf Monks are damn scary grapple monsters. Damn scary. Tetori is the grapple archtype I think from APG. You could call it a specialized school of Dwarven wrestlers.
+1 I can visualize a greco-roman wrestling competition amongst the clans.
No oriental background.
Monks don't have to use just monk weapons. They are proficient with other weapons too, including handaxes, spears, and light and heavy crossbows; which are all weapons associated with dwarfs.
Dwarfs are racially proficient with battleaxes, heavy picks, and warhammers. A miner's pick (see Equipment) can be wielded without penalty as a two handed heavy pick with the feat 'catch off guard'. Monks can receive 'catch off guard' as a bonus feat at 1st level.
Monks, like clerics, have Knowledge: History and Knowledge: Religion as class skills. Dwarfs like history and religion.
Dwarfs are generally lawful, monks have to be lawful.
A dwarf who chooses to forgo armor, instead choosing to become 'one with the rock', or something, is smiled upon by Torag (or whomever) and given supernatural armor (Wis bonus to AC). As his or her spiritual devotion grows he or she gains new supernatural abilities (like immunity to supernatural diseases at lvl5) from said deity/patron/stone.
I played a dwarf monk in a PFRPG/3.5 campaign and he rocked. This was without any kind of mid/maxing, no +5 stat bonuses, or any BS which leads to one dimensional, boring, and inherently flawed characters. The Pathfinder RPG rules make for pretty awesome characters, even with marginal rolls.
I have found over the course of the last couple years that the PC archetypes aren't as solid as the core rulebook PC classes. They are generally overpowered in one arena so that they can suck in most others, which can jeopardize a party. Same thing for the base classes from APG, UM, and UC. Giving a rogue Ki points and calling it a ninja makes rogues and monks less cool.
Sorry for the little rant at the end. I've had too much coffee.
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'Sai' could be the name of a three-pronged Dwarven forge tool.
It is used to transport hot blades from the kiln to the anvil.
A unique/isolated dwarf cult/clan of the forge has used their unusual blacksmith tools as weapons for centuries.
That's just one idea for justifying sais in your underground kingdom.
'Siangham' is the tool used like a chisel to make engravings and punches on metal.
'Nunchaku' is a kind of whip hammer used to pound out hot metal.
Who said these were Tien/Eastern weapons? No where in the core rulebook does it say that.
No where in the core rulebook does it state that monks are Tien/Eastern themed.
Just because that is the nature of our reality, does not make it binding in the PFRPG universe (the one that exists in Imaginationland).
-GS
I personally like the idea of a dwarven monk who turns the lawful tendencies of dwarves into ironclad discipline and forges the already tough dwarven physique into a living weapon.
Plus ive got a concept for a dwarven zen archer who forgoes wooden bows in favor of horn. I just smile at the image of a wise old dwarf who maybe takes a little to much pleasure in beating snot nosed elves at their own game.
A wizard went back in time from 2012 and brought DC comics to Golarion. The monk got interested in Green Arrow and carefully practiced the way of the bow.
Just apply the singlemindedness with which a dwarf stereotypically hones his weapons and armor to perfection, but have your dwarf monk feel like the the body is the perfect tool. Instead of shaping stone and steel he makes his skin like stone and his fists like steel.
As for Monk weapons, I have always felt that a flaw in the design of the class was the use of weapons that are alien to the culture around the monastery. Do all of the monk traditions have their basis in Tienish culture? If so, I don't see that influence making its way to the five kings mountains smack in the middle of another continent. If not, what about those weapons is inherently "monkish"?
As an aside, I recall reading somewhere that in the Inner Sea region, the vast majority of monk traditions are in fact Vudrani or Tien by origin and have simply spread over time.
Also I remembered my friend's Dwarf Monk. His name was Groinly and he became a monk because "[he] like[s] to fight!"
No one has mentioned the Monk of the Empty Hand yet?
"You're a monk?"
"Yes."
"But... where are your sai and kama?"
"What the hell are those? I don't need 'em anyway, whatever they are, since I got me axe!"
Dwarven monks use axes and hammers when they Flurry. Problem solved.
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But if there was a practical use for the fighting style, the Dwarves would develop it. It also suits the lack of armor in the smithy.
This would not, however, explain fighting with sai or nunchucks, or developing mystical powers.
Ahem; crusader-monks of Angradd flurry with greataxes (and you don't need house-rules to make it work).
No one has mentioned the Monk of the Empty Hand yet?
"You're a monk?"
"Yes."
"But... where are your sai and kama?"
"What the hell are those? I don't need 'em anyway, whatever they are, since I got me axe!"
Dwarven monks use axes and hammers when they Flurry. Problem solved.
+1
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I would look at the physical stats for your character and make up a background based on what you see. My guess is that your (relatively) low STR, low DEX dwarf may have lacked the proper strength and coordination to fit in with the other dwarven fighters.
Perhaps he's unusually small or scrawny for a dwarf?
When he came of age he went out in the world, wandering about and looking for martial studies that would enable him to contribute to his clan as a warrior... and studied the bow with some monks, or (weird?) some enlightened elves.
You could easily find roleplaying opportunities based on such a background:
Who you calling weak, buddy? I may be short, but I'm still a dwarf!
(When asked about the rusty old dwarven waraxe that he always carries strapped to his back). What, that ol' thing? I used to use that, before I gots meself ENLIGHTENED. (7 INT, 7 CHA???)
Another idea: maybe you were raised in a rural area and are a follower of Erastil -- and you felt compelled to learn the way of His favored weapon (longbow). Using a longbow helps you feel connected to Erastil in a way that you had never experienced before, when you were wielding an axe. Now you embrace the longbow as a means of meditation and prayer, reaching for enlightenment.
"But... where are your sai and kama?"
I think me daughters playing with them. What else was I going to do with a little blade like that ?
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I would look at the physical stats for your character and make up a background based on what you see. My guess is that your (relatively) low STR, low DEX dwarf may have lacked the proper strength and coordination to fit in with the other dwarven fighters.
I wouldn't assume a relatively low strength - in fact because of the racial bonus to WIS & CON it more then likely frees up some points (if your using a point buy) to pump STR.
My Dwarven Monk would probably have a minimum 17 starting Strength(using a 25 point buy system).
Just apply the singlemindedness with which a dwarf stereotypically hones his weapons and armor to perfection, but have your dwarf monk feel like the the body is the perfect tool. Instead of shaping stone and steel he makes his skin like stone and his fists like steel.
This is pretty much the exact thing I think of when I look at a dwarf monk also.
There was a Neverwinter Nights NPC that was a dwarf monk. He was a big fan of tavern brawls and he got pwnd by a monk once and begged them to tell him how to learn their fighting style.
Darn it Cattoy, I was so going to mention him. But you beat me to it ;_;
Forging the Mind and Body is a good reason.
A Dwarf training to be a scout or runner might pick Monk.
A Dwaf who's profession doesn't allow weapons at all times might pick monk (Bodyguard to a delegate, for instance).
A Dwarf who, probably because of some punishment can never wield nor forge a weapon again.
Happens to be a tradition in your Dwarf's village/monestary. You wouldn't go against tradition, right?
Dwarf might be from one of the oriental-themed areas, either because dwarves are normaly there or it's an oddity.
Because your beard is a prickly uneven thing, so its better if you shave your head and your beard . . . .or at least until you manifest your sorcerous abilities to spontaneous grow or dipilitate at will.
Actually, getting back to something from the original post, I was thinking that a dwarf might wind up going down the path of the zen archer starting as a craftsman. Someone who comes from a family of bowyers and fletchers who -- for some reason -- just lacked the knack to craft a truly great bow. So he began studying the art of archery in more depth and, to paraphrase a wise man, learned to 'be the bow.' And all this eventually led to him seeking out someone to instruct him in new ways of viewing/practicing archery.
There you go. Dwarf zen archer.
Dwarves from a more wide ope area where traditional tunnel fighting techniques where not going to help them learned a strict military form of open field guerrilla archery
also, the dwarven monks are the ones you call for when the rust monsters show up and all the fighters and clerics are running away...
A Drunken Master who studies the Way of the Sacred Mountain sounds pretty "flavorful" to me. The stone and mead talk to him :)
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-Dwarves stranded in an area with Limestone caves, and thus few if any metals for making traditional dwarven weapons/armor. (or whose ancestors were and the clan carries on the tradition) Its been 3,000 years sice the exodus and SOME peope still won't let the bread rise!"I do this because of what God did for me when I came out of Egypt."