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Yes. It's actually ready to go but I'm on vacation at the moment and didn't want to be bombarded for clarifications. It'll keep the same three-round structure, but there's a twist to it (which I wont reveal right now). The combat, as promised, with be "entirely new" (no previous contest's builds will be remotely effective); ranged combatants will love it.
How would you rate a build like the one I just offered: a 90% chance of Tying Up the monster in question, but as Wonder pointed out, a DPR of 0? It would be rated "boring". The audience pays for gore, and you're not providing the buckets of blood that they crave. Much booing and throwing of litter will commence. We spectacle organizers have to keep things exciting, so there are no prizes for 0 DPR.
So what happened to the new contest? It is currently stewing in a Notepad document that I'll dig up later today. At the time (back in November), it looked like a combination of website crashes and PF2 seemingly killing interest in PF1 might render it all a moot point, so it got delayed. Perhaps you could include the opponent's CMD as well?All checks except attack rolls are made against a DC of 35. Feinting, Piercing Spell Resistance, Opposed Strength Checks, etc. The opponent's checks are always 35, too. Their Attacks and most importantly Saving Throws. Honestly, the absurdly high Spell Resistance and Saving Throws have all but shut casters out of this contest. While martials are facing something in the CR 12-15 range, Casters are facing an opponent with Saves/SR in the CR 21-25 range. While I stipulate that I may have absent-mindedly responded in the affirmative somewhere over the course of nine pages, the monsters have never been listed as possessing spell resistance in the posts establishing challenges. Also, while save-or-die effects, grappling and dirty trick masters are very viable for normal play, this thread was made for one purpose and one purpose alone.The primary reason Slim Jim's last build was able to do so much is that, while mainly martially minded, it was only of the few submitted so far to contain a significant number of spellcasting levels, and enough to trip the extra-granted-buff mechanism the challenge had in place, then figure out how to triple everything he had going by duplicating his monster sidekick. If the contest started up again, I'd prefer it had some new rules implemented so that the builds also had to be viable to play. Like minimum saves allowed, no buffing done that can't be supplied by the character themselves, not spending more than a fixed amount on consumables, and maybe a "re-match" after the first rounds to see how the builds hold up after they've gone Nova. Characters will take damage and make saves in the next challenge, so decent saves and hitpoints will be necessary. WBL and consumable cost has been established previously (they have occasionally been slightly stretched by some contestants in order to demonstrate a cool thing that required just a teensy bit more).
The current thread is just fine; I don't want to recreate it every time I make a new challenge. The "last >>" button is only a single click away from the first page, and for those browsing the main forums, hitting "X new" is no ordeal at all.
Speaking of being confusing, vague, and neglectful, I note that I have not relisted the challenge parameters in several pages, and appear to have forgotten entirely one aspect that was always part of the challenge (or at least I had thought it was): you take damage over the course of the contest. At the end of the monster turns of Rounds 1 and 2, you (and any associates) are down 35 hitpoints, cumulative (so -70 total). If this puts you under 0hp at the end of monster-turn Round 2, the challenge ends for you there. As most entries are raging martials, that shouldn't present a problem, but it may for summoned creatures, or for builds severely shorting Con, employing Vicious weaponry, etc.
This is getting out of hand. The whole idea with society play is that everyone is playing with the same rules, and the same options.Everyone is playing with the same rules: the rules of this DPR Arena, which change from time to time in order to bring fresh and exciting new spectacles to eager fans - and this aspect has been a feature of the contest since the thread began. Round 3 has gone further and further into houserule territory... <new sign hung up in arena registration> "All contestants are hereby advised that arena combat does not constitute playing a real PFS game. This is a solo endeavor. No chronicle sheets or boons well be awarded, only the adulation of the crowd for victory! Please see the attendant if entry forms have run out." to the point that it's in clear violation of existing rules.I know of at least two archetypes that are capable of doing exactly that without feats or items, to say nothing of monsters.You can’t end your movement in the same square as another creature unless it is helpless. I'm tired of jumping through hoops just because I can't satisfy your view of how the game is played, so this will be my last contribution. Both arena officials and fans are confused by this latest turn of events; they've never seen a sour winner before. At 3200, you're blowing the competition away.
4) In Round 3, your PC is pinned by the weight of the monster sitting on him. Allied effects intended to eliminate a condition or transfer a condition from one ally to another will fail to eliminate or transfer this pinned condition if they do not involve moving or lifting the monster off the PC by some means.You mean that literal magic will fail because it doesn't follow the laws of physics? The GM rules that the presence of a hostile third party of indeterminate CR rating in the teens inhibits your ally's ministrations of a 1st-level domain power regards that particular condition. This monster's chew-toy is an attended object. DC 35 to say otherwise. (Even if I were to allow removing the pinned condition without moving the monster, I would disallow standing up as a swift or free action, as moving "upward" one square in normal circumstances counts as two squares of movement while squeezed. And let's make that official: Your PC is subject to Squeezing movement rules in Round 3.)
GM's decisions: 1) You may draw a weapon as part of a move action so long as the antics in question make logical sense. 2) A sidekick's reach may be used to avoid enemy attacks of opportunity as normal while making attacks, but not to attend to an allied PC pinned under the monster in Round 3 without suffering an attack of opportunity (unless the sidekick has a means of avoiding these), or use its reach to claim having met the adjacency requirements of other effects and abilities (e.g., Outflank, the Ferocious Beast rage-power, etc). 4) The Escape Route teamwork feat's benefit shuts off if you're not capable of "watching your ally's back and providing cover". 4) In Round 3, your PC is pinned by the weight of the monster sitting on him. Allied effects intended to eliminate a condition or transfer a condition from one ally to another will fail to eliminate or transfer this pinned condition if they do not involve moving or lifting the monster off the PC by some means.
"You're not a peregrine falcon stooping on a pigeon at 200mph, you're a hovering object imparting enough force to move an 800lbs opponent 5'. Newton's third law: 'For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction'."You seem to have forgotten about Newton's little known Fourth Law. It states that D&D is an abstraction and there's a difference between scrutiny and outright houseruling things, and a PFS DM is meant to NOT House Rule but to run the game within the RAW. Judges enjoy considerable leeway in PFS when environmental conditions or other variables are a factor. I can envision the same judgment call occurring should the shield-slammer by standing on slippery ice without appropriate footwear for gaining traction on such surfaces. * * * * * This particular contest scenario has been going for some time, and we have at least a couple builds now demonstrating survival, as well as nearing or exceeding four digits worth of damage. I'll hand out the gold when somebody hits an arbitrarily big number that suits my fancy, then retire a mechanic and/or pose a new restriction - or devise an entirely new scenario.
The fight itself is almost like the previous one, but I'm flexing into Shield Slam while moving 60ft with the opponent.That's not going to work.... Benefit: Any opponents hit by your shield bash are also hit with a free bull rush attack, substituting your attack roll for the combat maneuver check (see Combat). This bull rush does not provoke an attack of opportunity. Opponents who cannot move back due to a wall or other surface are knocked prone after moving the maximum possible distance. You may choose to move with your target if you are able to take a 5-foot step or to spend an action to move this turn. You can take only one 5' per round, and in Round 1 you used your Move action to trigger Martial Flexibility. So you'll get the 5', and that's it. (You also can't make a 5' if you're in the saddle and intend to stay there, nor can you delegate the 5' to your mount without an ability mechanism to do so.) You also cannot stack Varisian Pilgrim and Crusader cleric archetypes because both modify domains.
Enemy movement will provoke at most two of those AoOs (one from you and one from the mount. The rest will have to come from other mechanics. BTW, everyone using attacks of opportunity "chains" needs to account for additional miss chances resultant from the additional involved die rolls in which any miss breaks the chain. Example: a successful crit (attack + confirm = two die rolls) triggers your sidekick's Outflank AoO (3rd die roll), which then triggers the first person's Paired Opportunists AoO (4th die roll) which he decides to use for a Greater Trip maneuver (5th die roll), triggering another sidekick AoO (6th die roll), etc, etc. Also remember that every attack of opportunity used on a maneuver attempt is one that is not being used for direct damage. (So no just multiplying average damage by total number of AoOs.)
I presume the 24 strength is after the hulk-out, as otherwise point-buy is way otta whack. Berserker of the Society (ask if it works with Bloodrager)Barbarians only in PFS. I have thirteen AoO's per turn... Having thirteen available uses doesn't mean that you're going to get all of them. Bear in mind the last sentence of Paired Opportunist's feat text. You can't simply chain endlessly, and with an animal companion of moderate dexterity, it'll run out of AoOs quickly relative to you, and then you have no dance partner to keep bouncing off of.)
No more than one full-attack or double-move mechanic per round. Because it's Halloween, I'm going to waive this for awhile. Go nuts. Howl at the moon. Send forth your most monstrous steroid freaks. (But: your build still must be Core- and PFS-legal, by which I mean, not yet banned even though it ought to be.)
Reaffirmed rule: No more than one full-attack or double-move mechanic per round. Any exploit around such falls into infinite-progression "Peasant rail-gun" territory. Fun to play with as theoretical exercises, but no table-judge in PFS is going to let you get away with it even if it does exist as a not-yet-banned RAW loophole somewhere. Relaxed rule: I've decided to rescind my earlier decision to up the Round 3 monster's AC. (So, if you can blind it or discombobulate it in some other way, go ahead and beat on the lower value.)
I bet I could squeeze in a fourth if the horse wears a corset.As much as I'm sure the local venture-captain would be delighted to see a prancing pony with a two-inch waist (especially if you'd brought a custom mini), I am reasonably certain that the "vaudeville hook" will be extended for the reasons enumerated immediately above. And to quote PFS rules... By dint of convincing argument, you now have your Ring of Freedom of Movement.
And this is PFS legal, note, and requires no crafting feats. You do, however, need to meet the crafting requirements. A wizard can add additional magic abilities to his bonded object as if he has the required Item Creation Feats and if he meets the level prerequisites of the feat. For example, a wizard with a bonded dagger must be at least 5th level to add magic abilities to the dagger (see Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat...etcUnless something has changed recently in that campaign, your wizard won't meet the "crafting requirements" because "crafting" requires crafting feats, which PCs cannot take in PFS. You're permitted to incrementally upgrade items so long as they adhere to a campaign-specific approved list, but you're generally not getting much of a (if any) break on price compared to buying it retail. ]Fair enough. Your contest, your rules. But the Pinned condition comes from grapple, and with the above ring, you cannot be grappled. Still: your rules. The GM rules that if a monster sits on you when you're not resisting on its turn, there is no opposed check and you don't squirt out like a melon seed. Why that happened, you're not sure. Perhaps you were dazed, and it only wore off just now at the beginning of your turn. * * * The crowd grows restless and some begin to boo as referees continue to confer over legalities. Where's the bloodspray? Where's the gore? Where's the entertainment!?
But does the Ring of Freedom of Movement apply? After all, THAT effect is always on, not an on/off thing.A Ring of Freedom of Movement's effect is continuous and doesn't require an action, so you'd wriggle out no problem on your turn. (You'll still be prone next to the monster.) Unfortunately you don't have such a ring since it's 40,000gp price-tag exceeds the limit: "Equipment: you have 110,000gp to spend, no more than a third of it in one object." How can you start pinned if you're unable to be grappled permanently due to the ring which you can afford because it's your Bonded Item (which lets you use Crafting Feats you don't even have on it)? The enchanting of Bonded Items is PFS legal, note, including the discount for doing it yourself. It's never been stated that you were "grappled" per se in round 3; you just have a thousand pounds of hungry monster on you crushing you under the force of gravity. Maybe you tripped on your shoelaces or were beaned in the head and went down, and it merely wandered over to help itself to the chocolate-crème Belvitas out of your pack. It's hard to remember what happened and you're a little woozy right now because all the air is getting squeezed out of your lungs.
I'm not actually going to make a build, but I wanted to check: for the Round 3 situation, if you have an Unfettered Shirt you can activate it in one of the previous rounds and avoid the Pinned condition in Round 3 entirely, right?That's up to Mike Schneider to decide, but my guess is that the effect is debuffed, and that you're pinned regardless of if you have an effect that normally would have avoided that. Correct. The conditions of the DPR scenario (now near the top of the previous page) were as follows: "...If you have an effect or ability which does not require an action to trigger, you may evade the Staggered, Shaken, and/or Sickened conditions. This effect or ability cannot be from a spell buff ongoing at the end the previous round. You remain pinned and at 0hp under the monster. While at 0hp, you have the Disabled condition. You do not have the Helpless condition."
I also have a few questions regarding this feat: 1) May the additional movement spent traversing the opponent's square(s) count toward the 10' minimum required in a charge? 2) Is the attacker required to stop immediately upon reaching the other side of the opponent, or, assuming sufficient movement, may he precede farther (such as to more easily deploy a reach weapon)?
Mike Schneider, as acting GM, can you make a call on how sliding dash works? Save for the purposes of establishing the scenario, expect that all game mechanics function as they would in PFS (provided they are legal there). As far as can tell, the feat Sliding Dash exists to permit you get into a more advantageous position on the back side of your target (such as for flanking purposes, or inhibiting its retreat). The phrasing "as long as you move through the closest space from which you can attack the target" implies that you must first have been able to charge your target under normal rules (and then merely delay your attack until you've proceeded further following a successful Acrobatics check to move through the target's square). It doesn't say you can eliminate the required initial 10' of movement, or change directions mid-charge, or charge through allied squares. Please let us know what the results of your Rules inquiry are.
Further notes: 1. no alignment has been given for the monsters; assume they are neutral. (If you want to compute hypothetical Smite damage, go ahead.) 2. I observe that I have not given AC figures for the round 3 monster. I will therefore up the ante slightly: Your AC target number in Round 3 is 30 no matter what (even touch or flat-footed, sole exception being you've rendered it helpless somehow). If you can nerf its AC by blinding it, feinting, etc, congratulations, you did! And now it's down to 30 from whatever higher value it originally was. Suck it, Round 3. That's the sort of ornery can-do spirit that our arena crowd really appreciates!
Roaring, charging, leaping, snarling LIONS and TIGERS! ===Grand Spectacle!=== The arena crowd goes wild! This is what they paid to see! The list of monster features on this page appears to be missing the Grab property.Yes, that was an accidental omission (it should have it). Assuming the monster being grappled releases the caster from the pin, cast cure critical wounds on self and stand up as a free action Unless you or your animal can force it away, assume the PC remains pinned.
What does SR have to do with Spell Save DC? Would you be capable of showing me a build that can get it's spell save DC up to 36 by level 12?It rolled high and the result is a 35. It's uncanny how often this monster gets a 35. (Now do half-damage and be glad it didn't have Improved Evasion.) ...In the end, all you will prove is that characters made to solve your challenging scenario will solve it.The best take home gold. As such, it's completely useless and should be dropped. No refunds. Says so right on your entry-form.
...the time to interview and hire hirelings is not taken into account because this is not a campaign. This is a DPS test.... PFS is a campaign. The first sentence of the (Pathfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Guide) begins: "In an organized play campaign...", and the PSRGG is the "campaign bible". The DPR challenge is a hypothetical encounter. Hiring NPCs for a specific, one-shot task is a contingency service: "Contingency services are similar to contacts, but represent paying hirelings in advance for future services that begin after a specified signal or time limit. Unlike contacts, most contingency services are arranged as a single transaction, buying one service performed in case of a specific event." Hiring first-level commoners to pack themselves in tightly around an uncaged monster is a suicidal request. Even if you could bluff a regularly company (i.e., less expensive) of men-at-arms, they're going to start asking questions almost immediately, and subsequently jack up their rate, which you will pay, or see them leave. What can hirelings do in PFS? As it turns out, not a lot. They can be hired for out-of-combat services, but typically cannot be for adventuring (bringing hired NPC spellcasters along is specifically proscribed). A "porter" is a vanity item costing prestige points, can only carry your stuff, and disappears into Hammerspace during combat. * * * * Wait, what's this? Hold the Scry-horn, everyone! Late-breaking news has informed us that newly-appointed head campaign-coordinator Tonya Woldridge is currently being held locked-up in a hall closet following a coup d'etat by rebellious regional venture-captains (something to do with a recently-implemented policy concerning candy treat requirements for the upcoming holidays -- a Snickers ban policy did not go down well, we hear, something to do with peanut allergies -- although our correspondents have yet to verify these potentially erroneous details), and for a brief time, chaos reigns down at the Lodge in Absalom. Therefore, for the next week, ending at the stroke of midnight on Halloween, October 31st, PEASANT RAILGUN builds will be entertained in the arena. In fact, all fees are waived! The jails have been emptied, and a mass of "suicide squad" prisoners are yours to do with as you please, and you don't have to pay them a penny. The mechanics will still have to be PFS-legal (items, spells, feats, etc), save regards to the employment of 1st-level commoners.
Challenge rule tweaks, additions, and extended descriptions: * Consider initiative rolled at the beginning. For simplicity, the rounds are relabeled 1, 2, and 3. You do not see any opponent during Round 1 on your turn. (You will if you ready.) * Round 2's 10'-away opponent is the same one that moved to attack you, unless your abilities (e.g., Awesome Blow, "assassination", etc) make that unlikely (i.e., you're no longer near that opponent), in which case at the beginning of Round 1 you're facing a second opponent identical to the first who got up next to you (triggering no AoOs, or you whiffed). Tailor your build and tactics to best exploit either option. If you think a scenario is likely, make a note of it. * Round 3's opponent is not the same one that you fought last round. It is also size Large. * In addition to the two pre-combat buffs, you may have...
* If you have at least eight spellcasting levels, you may have an additional long-term 8hr+ buff and an additional intermediate-duration buff. * Because the last round is proving difficult, I'm softening it a slight tad:
== == == == "Journey with us once more into the land of module-play, where post-retirement mayhem awaits!" * Attributes: 20pt-buy pre-racial. You have three more level bumps by 12th. Build must be PFS legal. * Build: it would be nice to see all levels in your build (with order feats taken in, class variants chosen, final HP and save totals, etc), but it is not required. * Equipment: you have 110,000gp to spend, no more than a third of it in one object. * Round 1:
* Monster Turn: a large opponent with 10' reach moves up to 10' away on its turn and strikes you for damage, hitting AC35. It is AC 30, Touch 18, Flat 25. If you have buffs, items or abilities which generate one or more attacks of opportunity in this scenario, take them. You do not have a clear charge lane. Any check you make against it is versus 35 (skills, CMD, saves, resistance, whatever). The monster’s attack roll is 35, and it does 35hp damage. * Round 2: You are eligible for a full-attack. You are at the edge of the opponent's reach, and it threatens. There is no difficult terrain or nearby cover. * Between Round 2 and 3, none of your available attacks of opportunity went off. Assume you rolled 1s, or could not take them. In any event, you did no further damage. * Round 3: A different monster is sitting on top of you, and you feel its jaws beginning to crush the life from you. Armor creaks and pops as serrated teeth ratchet and rend. Barely conscious, you are dimly aware that you still hold your weapon. -- You are prone, pinned, shaken, sickened, staggered, and at 0hp. If you have an effect or ability which does not require an action to trigger, you may evade the Staggered, Shaken, and/or Sickened conditions. This effect or ability cannot be from a spell buff ongoing at the end of your turn on Round 2 (any such have been debuffed). Other spells, such as Haste, remain active.) This monster also size large, hits AC35, and possesses See Invisible and Fast Swallow. -- If you have a companion that is less than fully 12th level, it is no longer alive at this point. If it remains alive, it is within its move of you, but not within a 5' of full-attacking. It is capable of charging. Do the best you can. -- That's it. Dead or alive, tally up. If your character has "tricks" (sneak-attack, favored-enemy, favored terrain, trips on AoOs, has Smite, Bane enhancements, etc), compute damage twice: once for nothing-is-applicable and once for opponent-eats-everything-ya-got. If you think you can do it, do it. ======= Damage/round formula: h(d+s)+tf(cd+cb+r) h = Chance to hit, expressed as a percentage. This doesn't exceed .95 (unless you autohit for whatever reason) and never goes below .05.
Remember to subtract one from your crit multiplier, or your damage will be over-done in the formula! b = This is elemental burst damage, such as from fiery burst weapons and thundering. Such enhancements self-multiply based on your crit multiplier; if they don't, then they're added to r and not b.
======= Character construction: What is allowed in PFS? A quick way to determine if a feature is permitted is to toss its name plus "nethys" into a search-engine, whereupon its listing at the Archives of Nethys will be found, and if the Pathfinder Society's round Glyph of the Open Road logo is displayed, the feature is very probably legal. For example, the feat Two-Weapon Fighting is PFS-legal. There are corner-cases, however, and these may have a red circle around the logo; this means that the campaign has issued a ruling which modifies unrestricted access. If the feature you found at Nethys doesn't have the logo, it's probably not PFS-legal. That said, new material is introduced continuously and previously-legal old material is occasionally proscribed, and not even the indefatigable stalwarts helming Nethys can keep up. So here's the follow-up trick: Nethys will provide the name of the book or books in which the feature has appeared. Which that knowledge, head over to Pathfinder Society's Additional Resources page and scan down for that book. If your feature (or, more often, its umbrella category) is listed as legal, you're good to go. Another great site aiding in character-generation is d20pfsrd. It does not indicate PFS-legality (note that all non-Paizo material is unapproved), but is very easy to navigate and quickly explore options. Lastly, wording in the PRD (searchable from this site) trumps wording from any other source. ======= Winner's Circle From time to time, a build tactic will be recognized as overwhelmingly strong and dominating competition. Said tactic will then be "given the gold" and retired. New contestants may NOT use retired tactics (we already know they're very powerful). Current winners: * Polymorth into multiattack monster. (You may still employ Enlarge Person, mutagens, and similar effects which don't significantly alter your form.) == == == == * Final thread rule: We're here to have fun kickin' monster butt! Please keep the signal-to-noise ratio positive. No critiquing until you've posted a build (error-correcting permitted).
...Bold: literally every person actively posting in your thread.While there was a long hiatus, this thread is over six years old. No one was complaining about the basic format until a few days ago. This isn't a game, we can't win or lose our characters, there are no stakes. It's an excersize in comparing builds to see which ones have the strongest DPR mechanics."DPR challenge" is right in the thread title. For example any defensive combat styles are completely nullified, and using any style at all prohibits any builds that want their swift action for anything else. Inquisitors can't stack bane and judgement together The theme (unchanged in six years) of this challenge is to not be one of those "ideal" scenarios where the characters enjoy every gimmick activated all at once in order to supernova. There are other DPR threads that do that, and they're more unrealistic than this one. The present scenario grants ability to ready an action during the prep round for when the opponents come into view. (The ability to charge is the only thing precluded at that point, because permitting such would necessarily mean that builds containing Rhino Charge and pounce/pummel always "win" by snagging an additional full/multi-attack.) And then on top of all that you've decided that casters have to contend with something more than double their CR (25-30) whilst martials are dealing with the defences of a CR15, seemingly for no reason other than the fact you can't be bothered to post a more balanced range. Even though Deighton has already told you what saves would be to match its AC. Round 2's opponent is deliberately unfair. Round 2 exists just to see what your same build that crushed Round 1 can do, if anything, in a virtual worst-case scenario. (It is assumed that you can easily beat a "fair" monster, which is why I am not "bothering" with that.)
Well, Mike has both stated that you're not in combat, so can't activate a style feat, but then also has a build taking attacks of opportunity without uncanny dodge or combat reflexes, which you can't do without acting in combat first, so having combat start on the monsters turn doesn't make sense either. The stated "given" of the DPR Challenge is that you are not surprised, and it has always been that way. -- I have to keep reminding people that this is not a Totally Accurate Battle Simulator; it is an exploration of powerful build construction and technique, and occasionally a new situation will be added (e.g., Round 2 recently) to tease out new ideas, while proven unbeatable mechanics are "given the gold" and retired. Ok, I'm just going to start assuming that combat started when the prep round started... You do not see an opponent during your turn in the prep round. They go first during the fight...but you're not surprised. Why? Who cares. It's the "given". Enjoy the fact that you are not surprised. Your character would. ____________ Errata: In Round 2, the monster was listed as having "Improved Grab", which is what it was called in 3rd edition. The Pathfinder universal monster ability which most closely matches it is "Attach", so we'll go with that.
I think it really begs the question, what does "(If you had any spells or supernatural abilities which would have prevented this, they have been debuffed" entail.It means you're flat on your can under the monster at the beginning of your turn in Round2. Player: "But it didn't happen because X!" GM: "Well, the OFS module writers hate you today, because X didn't work this time. Deal with it."
Also, are we staggered because we are disabled, or is the staggered condition applied regardless of current HP? The conditions don't have memory. You are staggered, shaken, sickened, prone, and pinned with 0 HP at the beginning of Round 2. I know you're very good at this Deighton, and you'll find something amongst that vast array of splatbooks out there. (I fully expect you to 'ace' this and take home another gold.) = = = You still haven't posted the monster's save, yet you say that squishies are welcome."...Any check you make against it is versus opposed 35 (skills, CMD, resistance, whatever)..." also, if staggered can you take a swift?By the book, whatever it permits for that condition. a wiz/sorc/arcanist could dim door away and quicken infernal healing. I have to say I don't really get the point of round two. It seems to be some desperate attempt into railroading people into making one more standard action attack to boost their damage. While obviously a PC would prefer to flee in such a situation if they were able, the point of Round 2 is to see how much any extra damage you can dish out while -10 to melee attack rolls. If you don't attack, the answer is zero. This is, after all, a DPR challenge. If you back players into a wall to try and make them do something, their instinct is almost never to do that thing, but rather to escape the scenario entirely. Additional monsters will continue pouring through the breach to the Worldwound, whereas jamming the hole with its corpse might buy a round or two.... Put yourself in a paladin frame of mind: If you flee, the monsters will ravage your wounded allies, and your deity will know you were a coward.
From the build I presented earlier, she is well-under her spending limit, so Boots of teleportation and get away, then hang back and shoot it from afar, or Grapple to escape, slip into a Portable Hole, then heal up and roll better in round 3? There is no Round 3. If you run away, you do less overall damage. -- The monster looks very badly hurt, and everyone else in the party is down.... (That's "flavor", not a contest rule.)
Seriously Mike, you need to rethink round 2 a bit, and tone it down. You haven't even had a round 2 for half a week. I may just get rid of it if there's going to be a lot of complaining, because there little point of "Nova(x2)" full-attack comparisons once you already have the (Nova) score from Round 1. The prep round's monster attack was to permit AoOs, which are by definition distinct from full-attacks, and thereby explore a different aspect of one's build. That's what I am interested in: different aspects. Round 2's was to see you can do anything in a situation in which 98% of characters can't. -- I don't expect you to be able to do much. You could swing one last time, you companion suicides in to save you, and that's it. When you go down the well, bad things eat you. I would suggest just having the monster dim door in with dimensional assault. If it starts next to you you can't charge it, so no pounce or pummeling charge. Or any mounted charges for that matter. Should fix the two turns worth of damage builds. Then you wouldn't get AoOs either, which is a mechanic I explicitly want to see in action, and I'd had clever types come in with Counterspell and claim the DimDoor failed. Easy button: Your charge-lane is blocked. (E.g., enemy wizard plopped down a Wall for that very reason.) == == == == "Journey with us once more into the land of module-play, where post-retirement mayhem awaits!" * Attributes: 20pt-buy pre-racial. You have three more level bumps by 12th. Build must be PFS legal. * Build: it would be nice to see all levels in your build (with order feats taken in, class variants chosen, final HP and save totals, etc), but it is not required. * Equipment: you have 110,000gp to spend, no more than a third of it in one object. * Prep Round:
* Monster Turn: a large opponent with 10' reach moves up to 10' away on its turn and strikes you for damage, hitting AC35. It is AC 30, Touch 15, Flat 23. If you have buffs, items or abilities which generate one or more AoOs in this scenario, take them. You do not have a clear charge lane. * Your Turn: Take your attacks. You are at the edge of the opponent's reach, and it threatens. Any check you make against it is versus opposed 35 (skills, CMD, resistance, whatever). There is no difficult terrain or nearby cover. * Darkness Descends: It's horrible, I tell you; none of your AoOs went off. * Swan Song: A monster is sitting on top of you, and you feel its jaws beginning to crush the life from you. Armor creaks and pops as serrated teeth ratchet and rend. Barely conscious, you are dimly aware that you still hold your weapon. -- You are prone, pinned, shaken, sickened, staggered, and at 0hp. (If you had any spells or supernatural abilities which would have prevented this, they have been debuffed. Other spells, such as Haste, remain active.) This monster also hits AC35, and possesses See Invisible, Improved Grab and Fast Swallow. -- If you have a companion that is less than fully 12th level, it is no longer alive at this point. If it remains alive, it is within its move of you, but not within a 5' of full-attacking the monster. Do the best you can. -- That's it. Dead or alive, tally up. If your character has "tricks" (sneak-attack, favored-enemy, favored terrain, trips on AoOs, has Smite, Bane enhancements, etc), compute damage twice: once for nothing-is-applicable and once for opponent-eats-everything-ya-got. If you think you can do it, do it. ======= Damage/round formula: h(d+s)+tf(cd+cb+r) h = Chance to hit, expressed as a percentage. This doesn't exceed .95 (unless you autohit for whatever reason) and never goes below .05.
Remember to subtract one from your crit multiplier, or your damage will be over-done in the formula! b = This is elemental burst damage, such as from fiery burst weapons and thundering. Such enhancements self-multiply based on your crit multiplier; if they don't, then they're added to r and not b.
======= Character construction: What is allowed in PFS? A quick way to determine if a feature is permitted is to toss its name plus "nethys" into a search-engine, whereupon its listing at the Archives of Nethys will be found, and if the Pathfinder Society's round Glyph of the Open Road logo is displayed, the feature is very probably legal. For example, the feat Two-Weapon Fighting is PFS-legal. There are corner-cases, however, and these may have a red circle around the logo; this means that the campaign has issued a ruling which modifies unrestricted access. If the feature you found at Nethys doesn't have the logo, it's probably not PFS-legal. That said, new material is introduced continuously and previously-legal old material is occasionally proscribed, and not even the indefatigable stalwarts helming Nethys can keep up. So here's the follow-up trick: Nethys will provide the name of the book or books in which the feature has appeared. Which that knowledge, head over to Pathfinder Society's Additional Resources page and scan down for that book. If your feature (or, more often, its umbrella category) is listed as legal, you're good to go. Another great site aiding in character-generation is d20pfsrd. It does not indicate PFS-legality (note that all non-Paizo material is unapproved), but is very easy to navigate and quickly explore options. ======= Winner's Circle From time to time, a build tactic will be recognized as overwhelmingly strong and dominating competition. Said tactic will then be "given the gold" and retired. New contestants may NOT use retired tactics (we already they're very powerful). Current winners: * Polymorth into multiattack monster. (You may still employ Enlarge Person, mutagens, and similar effects which don't significantly alter your form.) == == == == * Final thread rule: We're here to have fun kickin' monster butt! Please keep the signal-to-noise ratio positive. No critiquing until you've posted a build (error-correcting permitted).
When we get to the next page, I'll update the rules for the reboot. In the meantime, Deighton Thrane is awarded the September 2017 Gold medal in PFS-legal cheese for two build-mechanics that are pretty much impossible to top save by derivations in the same theme, and they are: 1) Polymorphing into a multi-attack monster.
And with, off the winner's circle they go to reflex and be fed grapes while the struggle in the arena continues. Builds going forward: * You may not transform into a monster. (Mutagens and size-changes are otherwise OK.) * You will not receive a full-attack as a readied action on the monster turn between the Prep round and the Battle round.
I'd suggest that eidolons are tougher and more dangerous than animal companions unless intentionally nerfedI've no doubt of that. (PFS laid the mallet down on summoners pretty hard, so any builds involving it will get extra extra scrutiny at the tables. I don't think anybody minds if you cake-walk, but when you do it looking like an alien monster from another dimension that need fifteen minutes to resolve your turn, yeeeah...) ...Because of freedom of movement we can't be grappled, and therefore can't be pinned. We're also immune to fear, and the shaken condition. We still have 0 HP, are sickened, staggered and prone. We delay til our familiar, who is invisible and therefore not provoking for movement.... At the beginning of Round2, you are prone, pinned, shaken, sickened, staggered, and at 0hp. -- If you had a spell or supernatural ability previously active which would have prevented any of those, you've been debuffed by one means or another. You will remain Hasted and Enlarged (etc, etc) if you were previously, but anything pertaining to prone, pinned, shaken, sickened, staggered is "off" at that moment. (If you have an extraordinary ability permitting more than a standard action while staggered, odds are a little brighter for you.) I'm also going to give the Round2 monster See Invisible (not uncommon at that level) as well as Improved Grab and Fast Swallow. In order for your companion to successfully Pounce (if capable and that is its intention), it'll need to have a base AC of 38 prior to charging (AC-2) in other to avoid the monster's attack versus AC35.
What have I nerfed? (aside from Wonder Twin Powers Activate 'Form of Monster', which we have already agreed is already the undisputed winner of any DPR contest in which it participates)? Nothing prevents you from using an animal companion in Round1 or while exploiting AoOs on monster turn at the end of the prep round. It occurs to me that a halfling lone wolf rider could really rack it up. I don't mind post some functioning and perhaps closer to reality less focused on DPS builds just to see how they compare to these knife edge builds. Absolutely! (Check the first few pages of the thread where I recurvisely detuned a bowbarian archer to make him more practical.)
What's with the nerf to nonlethal damage Honestly, it's just a kludge because otherwise every single build is going to start including the same exploit for doubling weapon-training bonus. (At 12th, regeneration becomes increasingly common anyway, meaning non-lethal is a poor tactic in actual fighting. If you can dish it out all in a single strike, like a sapmaster, then I suppose it would be viable.) I might also give the monster some DR. (Probably DR:5/-) But the Suggestion Box is still open. I have to say I don't understand the animal companion and familiar nerfs. Considering that no one has actually submitted a build with an AC yet, I'm not sure from whence the objection. In any event, getting knocked or dragged out of the saddle (or some such) is a problem one could face. The purpose of Round2 isn't to give you a whole 'nother full-attack. It's just to see if the same nova builds that trounced Round1 are able to do anything when flat on their can mostly dead. The monster had your familiar for lunch when you can't even see the monster? It's never been stipulated that there's only one monster in the encounter. For the contest's purposes, you've just had your hands full with the one attacking you. The monster sitting on you in Round2 isn't necessarily the same one. = = = = = Put yourselves in the frame of mind that this is not a totally accurate battle simulator, but rather instead the ending of 'Berserk'. Do the best you can. Acquit yourselves well, for the gods may be watching.
A few more alterations: * The monster is immune to nonlethal. * In keeping with the "Your allies are 'selfish'; no one buffs you" existing condition, I'm ruling that tactician feats and stuff like shared and amplified rage (etc) don't work in this situation, save for the sole exception that you possess a fully-leveled animal-companion or mount. (Anything weaker the monsters had for lunch.) * Companions are no longer adjacent to you or within their 5' step of reaching the monster in Round2 but are within a move-action of being so positioned (note that this may provoke an AoO from the monster, which hits AC35, and for the purposes of round2 I'm declaring that if it AoOs your companion, they cannot reach your side).
Another suggestion for Mike: The monster does X dmg when it attacks. You must remain conscious after the end of the fight (and all buffs of less than 10 min/lvl duration have worn off)... In keeping with the original theme that the monster was supposed to be tough, here's what we'll do: 2nd round (after an opponent turn in which none of your AoOs or readied-actions triggered or connected for one reason or another), you find yourself in the following predicament at the beginning of the next round: A monster is sitting on top of you, and you feel its jaws beginning to crush the life from you. Armor creaks and pops as serrated teeth ratchet and rend. Barely conscious, you are dimly aware that you still hold your weapon. -- You are prone, pinned, shaken, sickened, staggered, and at 0hp. Do the best you can.
So, without rewriting everything, taking wild child for the badger animal companion, free action directing him, and using a potion of long arm for an attack of opportunity instead of heroism, damage looks like this: ** spoiler omitted ** So we just barely crack 1000, but 1004 average damage should be enough to put the original set up for the challenge to bed.I've a feeling we're only scratching the surface of polymorph monster, so... Good, and *done*. On to the reboot. Outside of setting up a multi fight challenge, not too sure what to change though. The ability to nova on most classes is pretty strong in pathfinder. While you can legally do it for the present, I doubt you could afford it even in cash-rich PFS, where even at 12th (and if you've never had to pony cash for Raise Dead) 3000gp dedicated for use activating 700gp scrolls is an out-of-reach extravagance. But banning the key doesn't really solve the problem because it's easy to retool the build for slightly lower STR in order to have INT 14 in bloodrager to trigger without UMD (which is why I'm not even bothering to check and see the key's +10 gets you to the DC27 check to activate the scroll). = = = = For Mike: Suggestion #1: No polymorph effects except enlarge person... You know... I think I'm going to go with that. It satisfies K.I.S.S. and doesn't rely on me lowering consumable limits or starting an item ban-fest. I'll permit Righteous Might and similar resizings so long as the PC remains in the same form at the end the process and aren't gaining six attacks and pounce. Mutagens are OK.
Suggestion #2: You and the opponent start on opposite sides of a circular 60" diameter arena (flat flagstones, no terrain), behind indestructible transparent gates. After 1 round, the gates open. As you can see each other but cannot attack, there is no surprise round, but there is one round for buffing/starting styles, etc. Opponent wins initiative with a natural 20+X, he closes as previous and attacks... That's overly complicated and crafted solely to enable visual-confirmation-dependent builds to activate goodies like Smite in the prep round. So, no. You hear the sickening sound of a trap going off, and know you're screwed in approximately six seconds. Get ready. Maybe they pop out of the wall or floor, or are dim'd in. You don't know until it happens. Note that the ongoing contest already granted the contestant the "freebie" of not being surprised (something that is most certainly not a given in actual fights, especially in builds that don't have Uncanny Dodge and end up being Flat-Footed because Paizo devs are lawful-evil fiends for whom the tears of fallen munchkins are delicious gravy. (That's the reason every seemingly overpowered melee archetype forfeits a grade of armor proficiency and/or Uncanny Dodge: they're long-term traps.) (ps. Mike is this close by the opponent a charge? A brace weapon wants to know...) Not saying it was or wasn't. But it's easy enough to add as a addendum to your damage total since Brace activates like a x2 crit (merely doubling a number you've already calculated). Note that bracing is a readied action.
It'd be interesting if there were a couple of scenarios people could choose from. I know it wouldn't be as standardized, but you could set it up as a best in show and then best overall.The reason I had it set up as it is presently is because I specifically wanted it to represent the most dangerous kind of encounter, which is one in which the monster goes first and it's already up in your face. DPR contests elsewhere typically let you buff to the 9s and then unload everything including the kitchen sink with a ridiculous percentage of WBL sunk sunk into consumables. One where the monster makes multiple attacks to facilitate builds that benefit from being attacked (snake style)My other intent was to portray the problems faced by swift-action reliant mechanisms. If swift-novas always get their bennies, then they're over-weighted. One where the enemy is flying or otherwise out of typical reach. One where there are multiple enemies perhaps? Either make it a race to kill the 5 of them or some such? Then everyone activates their flying gizmos, then same as before...or more likely it's just a mook-shooting archery contest, and there's plenty of those already. In any event, the number of moving-parts increases exponentially, and guys with Cleave will pester as to how close things are to each other, etc.
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