What about Golarion bugs you?


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion

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Icyshadow wrote:

Yeah, but I saw some PFS people complain about how few humans are around despite the canon population numbers pretty much saying against it.

As in, canonically there shouldn't even be so many non-humans running around Avistan yet there they are, doing all the missions and such in PFS games.

I would explain how little I care what PFs players think...or little effect they desires should have on the world or rules....but I tend to piss of PFS players when I do. If you are curious enough I'll explain it in a PM.

Icyshadow wrote:
Things are much less likely to be allowed in home games if they do not have official support. See the stigma 3PP stuff and homebrews have even to this day.

That is not a problem with the setting or the rules( as the setting atleast has precedent of non Starstone accension) as it is a problem with the GM.

Silver Crusade

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Lord Foul II wrote:
I don't like it being impossible to ascend other than the test of the starstone which they haven't told us anything about

Who says that? Where is that written? Irori and Nethys are both rumoured to have been former mortals.

Also, what's with all the recent thread necromancy?


FallofCamelot wrote:
Lord Foul II wrote:
I don't like it being impossible to ascend other than the test of the starstone which they haven't told us anything about

Who says that? Where is that written? Irori and Nethys are both rumoured to have been former mortals.

Also, what's with all the recent thread necromancy?

He actually clarified after I pointed it out that he wants actual rules for deific ascendancy.


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_Cobalt_ wrote:
Yakman wrote:

3- FR style Gods are not interesting or cool... again, I think Eberron's model is much better and should have been emulated.

I kind of agree with this. However, there would be those who would say just the opposite.

Correct!

;-p

Carry on.

-- C.


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I just don't like that undead are always( maybe a few exceptions?) evil.


My list is too long to type in.


As interesting as Golarion is as a campaign setting, I just cant play in it/use it...I've been spoiled by Forgotten Realms and my own campaign setting that's in the works. I pretty much just use Golarion to steal certain ideas here and there.

Shadow Lodge

I love the Toril (FR) setting, the ravenloft setting and the planescape setting, most if not all others seem bland by comparison


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Teiidae wrote:
As interesting as Golarion is as a campaign setting, I just cant play in it/use it...I've been spoiled by Forgotten Realms and my own campaign setting that's in the works. I pretty much just use Golarion to steal certain ideas here and there.

FR does some things better, Golarion does other things better.

The problem with FR was it eventually felt like there were too many cooks spoiling the broth, and not enough editorial oversight to keep it all together in a consistent way. Novel glut also spoiled many of the original adventure-hook locations with everything being resolved in novels rather than through RPG adventures. All the same, I'm still fond of the setting.

It feels like a lot more care is being put into the development of Golarion (new products expand on older ones in a consistent way) and the PCs remain the stars of the show because the focus is on APs and modules.

What I would really like to see though is an Inner Sea map for Golarion with the main roads marked out. Roads create the illusion that all the nations are integrated and interacting with each other in some way instead of being islands unto themselves. The FR maps were always good in that way.


Nothing that probably hasn't been already said, but here's a relatively new to PF view:

1) Hate the gunpowder. Will never exist in my games.

2) Too human-centric. It's better fantasy when all the races are jostling against each other for supremacy.

3) They took a good adventure idea (Expedition to the Barrier Peaks) and made it into an entire nation. That's way too much Sci Fi for me.

4) It's basically Earth, with a little wallpaper over it. Even when I looked at the first map, my impression was "Really? Europe's here, Africa's there, and let me guess . . . Asia's over there."

I think PF has a nice system, you get your money's worth with the supplements, and very good adventures (especially the APs), but the world needs work. But it's still relatively new. The Forgotten Realms has 20 years on it, so I'm sure it'll get better as it matures.


Jeven wrote:

What I would really like to see though is an Inner Sea map for Golarion with the main roads marked out. Roads create the illusion that all the nations are integrated and interacting with each other in some way instead of being islands unto themselves. The FR maps were always good in that way.

That's a really good point! I'm totally with you on this. I know that, when I'm writing character backstories and such, I always pull out the maps and have to try to figure out connections and trade routes.


I'm going to be repeating a couple of other peoples grumbles but here goes.

* Firearms.
* Numeria, spaceships and robots. I don't want science fiction in my fantasy.
* I used to like that the Inner Sea had a corner for whatever type of game you wanted to run. Then I hated it because it is too much squashed together even given the size of the continent.
* What is with the renaissance / colonial era look? I like my fantasy firmly dark age/medieval.

Ultimately I just chose a corner of the world that fitted what I wanted, Varisia, and stuck with that.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

That's what's great about how Golarion is laid out.

Each nation is largely self-contained, so if you don't like Numeria, you don't have to go there, and the influence of the robot-spaceship-high technology doesn't pervade the setting.

On the other hand, it was written such that there aren't tons of jarring, nonsense borders. The dark would-be deiocracy of Razmiran isn't next to Viking Land, it's next to the politically divided River Kingdoms, where it makes sense. Socially advanced Galt is next to advanced Taldor, not smackdab in the center of the magical tyrannies of Garund.

Now, there are problems with this modular geographical layout, but in general, it works well for actually playing the game.


I have to add that the humancentricness of Golarion is something I actually really like.


I really don't have much that I don't like. I admit I ignore the guns and the gunslinger. But for the most part, I like it.

I would like to see the main road map Jeven suggested. That would be a fun add-on to the core map. I would also like to see an ethnic map, one that color codes the areas bu ethnic majority.

But for the most part, I am happy with what paizo has done with their world setting so far.


Numeria. :P See some of my other recent posts.. but I play Pathfinder for fantasy, not sci-fi and robots.

Dark Archive

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Oh hey, my quibble about Irrisen (where does the food come from?) was kinda / sorta answered in Land of Eternal Winter with Babs introducing magic regenerating trees that produce edible bark that apparently sustains the Irriseni ecosystem!

Still, where does the snow go? It *obviously* never melts, and, in the average winter, it snows a couple feet. It's *always* winter in Irrisen, so they probably get five feet of snow a year.

Which never goes away.

<scribble, scribble, math, math>

It's been 'always winter' for about 1400 years, which means that Irrisen is currently buried under 7000 ft. of snow that will never melt. From the border, it probably would look like a giant mountain of ice (having compacted under it's own weight) with the edges having 'calved' off into surrounding nations and thus surrounded with a giant 'moat,' the weight of the more-than-mile-high ice and snow mountain having depressed the entire nation of Irrisen several meters (and, in some areas, perhaps even collapses into the Darklands?). (Each foot of snow depth over Irrisen, assuming 500 miles on an edge, would weigh 138 quadrillion tons. Times 7000 ft. of accumulation that's what we call in technical terms ****ing heavy.)

I guess the obvious solution for it to not snow in Irrisen, ever, since even an *inch* a year would add up to all of Irrisen being buried in 116 foot snowdrifts!) in Irrisen, which somehow makes it feel less like 'eternal winter...'

Or some sort of creature type feeds on falling snow, and is capable of consuming (15 lbs. x the number of square feet of surface area in Irrisen) of snow a year.

Eh. As the robots sing, 'It's just a show, you should really just relax.' :)


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Set, just imagine a planar connection in which the snow fades out of the bottom / off the land of Irisen to a plane of eternal winter storms and then falls again in the skies over Irisen. That's how I would handle it in my own world. Waste not, want not :)

As for Golarion, it has to cover everything Pathfinder contains (with some exceptions I'd imagine). It's a commercial kitchen sink setting with isolated areas for every concept / idea / trope. The parts are very well done, having them all in the same world / setting can be a problem. Of course, once you've bought it you can change it to suit or let it stand as is. It probably is easier than having the setting of the week syndrome.

I have my own world / setting. A more limited kitchen sink in which I've tried to make sure everything that is in it fits logically together. It means not all concepts / ideas / tropes fit but I've been working on it steadily for 39 years now and it has a sense of coherence to it.


R Chance wrote:
I have my own world / setting. A more limited kitchen sink in which I've tried to make sure everything that is in it fits logically together. It means not all concepts / ideas / tropes fit but I've been working on it steadily for 39 years now and it has a sense of coherence to it.

O.O

I thought with 30 years of gaming, I would be one of the elders here- I bow to a true dedicated master.


Irrisen getting buried in snow doesn't seem like such a problem to me. I live in Laramie and we don't get much snow, but do get the cold temperatures. We still end up with snow loss even on very cold days, due to dryness, plus I assume Irrisen still gets sunny weather, which would be enough to melt snow even if it's below freezing.

Also the snowfall might not be all that bad, and many of the major populations centers might be near areas that don't get much. Drifting patterns could also explain things...wind might cause snow to build up in certain areas but not others. And even with all that, you can still remove snow...snow removal might be big business in parts of Irrisen.

Liberty's Edge

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R_Chance wrote:

Set, just imagine a planar connection in which the snow fades out of the bottom / off the land of Irisen to a plane of eternal winter storms and then falls again in the skies over Irisen. That's how I would handle it in my own world. Waste not, want not :)

As for Golarion, it has to cover everything Pathfinder contains (with some exceptions I'd imagine). It's a commercial kitchen sink setting with isolated areas for every concept / idea / trope. The parts are very well done, having them all in the same world / setting can be a problem. Of course, once you've bought it you can change it to suit or let it stand as is. It probably is easier than having the setting of the week syndrome.

I have my own world / setting. A more limited kitchen sink in which I've tried to make sure everything that is in it fits logically together. It means not all concepts / ideas / tropes fit but I've been working on it steadily for 39 years now and it has a sense of coherence to it.

I'm interested to hear some details about your home setting, because for my money Golarion fits together about as "logically" as could be expected for a D&D world. I think your implication that Golarion is a "commecial" setting designed around the need to incorporate everything from the Pathfinder rules is pretty unfair.

Many of the developers have shown through their active forum participation that they've put a lot of thought and energy into the Pathfinder Chronicles setting and are genuinely passionate about what they've created. The writers at Paizo have explored many of Golarion's nations and the ways they interact with each other in depth through both setting fluff and related fiction.

Don't get me wrong; I don't expect everybody to have read the unreasonable amount of Pathfinder stuff that I have, nor do I think that the setting is some kind of flawless vision of the best of all possible fantasy worlds. I myself have a whole lot of head-canon that I use in my games to smooth over issues like what the heck all those people in Irrisen and the Mana Wastes are eating. It just gets my hackles up when people dismiss a work of fiction I'm fond of out of hand and say "meh, I can do better."


Gnoll Bard wrote:


I'm interested to hear some details about your home setting, because for my money Golarion fits together about as "logically" as could be expected for a D&D world. I think your implication that Golarion is a "commecial" setting designed around the need to incorporate everything from the Pathfinder rules is pretty unfair.

My setting started out as a campaign setting for Chainmail several years before D&D existed. I converted it to D&D in 1974 when I got my first set of the LBBs. I've been tweaking it and working on it for almost 4 decades since. It's the only setting I've used (although I have read several - I'm not above borrowing good ideas). I've read tons of fantasy, mythology etc. I have multiple degrees in history and cultural anthropology. In the course of it's existence I have advanced my timeline between editions and built up a solid history for the setting. I've dismantled the various races and worked on their cultures as well. It's been... lived in. I'm sure Golarion has as well, it's James Jacob's home game in large part iirc, but it's also been used as the home campaign of Paizo's system. There were differences between Gygax's and Arneson's home games and the commercial versions too. After all, who would want to give away all their secrets? :)

Now, first of all, I said Golarion is good, it just has to cover all the bases. Logic... tell me why guns are only popular in one nation on Golarion, Alkenstar iirc. Nobody else thinks it would be nice to reach past all that heavy armor that gives armored knights / infantry an advantage? Has nobody noticed it? Those people who have the technology to make plate armor and so on can't make guns? It's hard to justify any reason why firearms aren't more popular. Magic is the default reason, but I'm sorry, magic or no magic guns would be useful. Once guns appeared in Europe they spread rapidly. Nonetheless, I can see the reason for the limitation. It gives firearm wielding characters a reason to exist without having firearms stuffed into all other areas and all the others peoples games (who may not want it) and still be the same setting. It's a well done setting, but it has to accommodate their material and it's well designed to do that.

Gnoll Bard wrote:


Many of the developers have shown through their active forum participation that they've put a lot of thought and energy into the Pathfinder Chronicles setting and are genuinely passionate about what they've created. The writers at Paizo have explored many of Golarion's nations and the ways they interact with each other in depth through both setting fluff and related fiction.

I agree, they have done so and are passionate about it. I don't have your familiarity with the material on Golarion, but as I understand it there have been shifts in what is "cannon" over the years. And there have been in my game as well. Just not as many, because there is only one of me and I don't have to accommodate anything I wouldn't want in my game. I have sat around producing "histories", "ethnologies", "biographies" and tons of miscellaneous material over the years. I don't do novels though :)

Gnoll Bard wrote:


Don't get me wrong; I don't expect everybody to have read the unreasonable amount of Pathfinder stuff that I have, nor do I think that the setting is some kind of flawless vision of the best of all possible fantasy worlds. I myself have a whole lot of head-canon that I use in my games to smooth over issues like what the heck all those people in Irrisen and the Mana Wastes are eating. It just gets my hackles up when people dismiss a work of fiction I'm fond of out of hand and say "meh, I can do better."

It's not "meh" to me, as I've said, it's well done. As settings I'm familiar with go, I'd place it with Greyhawk, Blackmoor, The Forgotten Realms, Glorantha and, at the pinnacle of it's type, Tekumel. That is not faint praise. And I know people homebrew / use "head-cannon" (I like that phrase) in these settings. As I'm sure they would if they had mine. In short, it's very good, but it is a commercial setting. There are advantages to that (numerous talented people working on it) and disadvantages to that (numerous talented people working on it). James Jacobs is the creative director and that certainly helps keep things tight. So, have I "done better"? I doubt it. Have I done better for my purposes? Certainly. That's the advantage of a lot of time spent over numerous years to create your own vision of a fantasy world. It'd be pretty strange if I hadn't come up with exactly what I want. Barring schizophrenia of course :)

Liberty's Edge

I apologize for misunderstanding your opinions, R Chance. Sometimes I get weirdly defensive of things that I've gotten a bit obsessed with. :P

I will point out, though, that Alkenstar and it's guns have been around in the setting since before they did firearm rules for Pathfinder, and there are a lot of other rules they've introduced that they haven't tried to shoehorn into the setting yet.

It is unusual that nobody else uses guns, especially since just about everybody in the setting seems to have fireworks, but, for me, that's the kind of thing that's not hard to explain away. After all, the Chinese were using gunpowder weapons from at least the 10th century and hand cannons from the 12th century, and yet they don't seem to have redefined Chinese warfare in the way they did for Europe; at least not until the Chinese started coming into regular contact with European firearms.


Gnoll Bard wrote:


I apologize for misunderstanding your opinions, R Chance. Sometimes I get weirdly defensive of things that I've gotten a bit obsessed with. :P

I will point out, though, that Alkenstar and it's guns have been around in the setting since before they did firearm rules for Pathfinder, and there are a lot of other rules they've introduced that they haven't tried to shoehorn into the setting yet.

It is unusual that nobody else uses guns, especially since just about everybody in the setting seems to have fireworks, but, for me, that's the kind of thing that's not hard to explain away. After all, the Chinese were using gunpowder weapons from at least the 10th century and hand cannons from the 12th century, and yet they don't seem to have redefined Chinese warfare in the way they did for Europe; at least not until the Chinese started coming into regular contact with European firearms.

No big deal, I do the same. And it's easy to misunderstand things on message boards.

As for Golarion, I think they have placed stuff in odd corners (Alkenstar for example) on purpose in case they wanted to add things at a later date or because they planned to. It's smart, and, to be honest, I've sited things that I hadn't yet worked out / included in odd corners of my own setting. Of course, some of those things got deleted while others are in the setting. The advantage of a homebrew campaign - you don't have to justify changes that are out of your characters sight :)

The connection between China and Europe was pretty limited. The Chinese made significant use of gunpowder, but didn't advance their technology the way Europe did. European use of gunpowder accelerated with technological advancement. And yeah, they were shocked about the uses the western barbarians had put gunpowder to.

Dark Archive

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I think, with firearms, the designer have made a good attempt at rationalizing why they aren't spreading all over the world.

Alkenstar is kind of boxed-in, trade-wise, by Nex and Geb, arguably the two most magically-potent nations in the Inner Sea, both at least somewhat invested in maintaining the dominance of their own magical exports, and the ones most likely to have unarmored troops with magical or supernatural defenses (negating at least some of the advantage of firearms over longbows). If guns leave Alkenstar in any meaningful numbers, it would be through Katapesh (whose economy is ruthlessly controlled by the Pactmasters, who may well be taking financial incentives from Nex to 'discourage' or 'lose' any large shipments of firearms from leaving Alkenstar via their ports).

Although the notion of a marauding gnoll tribe with plundered guns raiding caravans in the area has a certain sweetness...

From a thematic standpoint, I could see small quantities of guns being smuggled out of Alkenstar, which, naturally, would lead to them appearing more often in the hands of *pirates* than in the hands of the Taldan or Andoren militaries. It would be an interesting reversal of real world developments if a pirate ship coming out of the Shackles was going to be the first to shock a Chelish blockade ship by opening fire with cannons...

Numeria, on the other hand, doesn't really seem to have much in the way of firearms, or any sort of technology that isn't *strictly* controlled by the 'techno-sorcerers' of the Black Sovereign. The nation itself seems less like 'innovators' and more like scavengers using things they barely (if at all) understand (more like the 'gnolls with guns' mentioned above, than the natives of Alkenstar).

Liberty's Edge

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R_Chance wrote:

No big deal, I do the same. And it's easy to misunderstand things on message boards.

As for Golarion, I think they have placed stuff in odd corners (Alkenstar for example) on purpose in case they wanted to add things at a later date or because they planned to. It's smart, and, to be honest, I've sited things that I hadn't yet worked out / included in odd corners of my own setting. Of course, some of those things got deleted while others are in the setting. The advantage of a homebrew campaign - you don't have to justify changes that are out of your characters sight :)

The connection between China and Europe was pretty limited. The Chinese made significant use of gunpowder, but didn't advance their technology the way Europe did. European use of gunpowder accelerated with technological advancement. And yeah, they were shocked about the uses the western barbarians had put gunpowder to.

Precisely: the sudden and rapid accelleration of technological development in Europe in the modern era is essentially a historical fluke.

China had guns for hundreds of years but never developed them beyond a fairly simple design. The Song dynasty had joint-stock companies and the printing press and produced iron products on an industrial scale, but didn't experience the kind of world-changing industrial revolution that Europe would later experience.

While China provides a number of good examples because the Chinese developed a number of the technologies that we associate with modernity in the west, most of the history of the world stands as a counterexample to the notion that technological progress must proceed in any kind of predictable pattern. Events came together in Europe in such a way that European technologies and ideas have spread across the globe, but those events occurred only once and only after anatomically modern humans had been around for the better part of 200,000 years.

I see no reason to believe that the history of technology would necessarily unfold the same way on another world, even one that superficially resembles our own.


Set wrote:


I think, with firearms, the designer have made a good attempt at rationalizing why they aren't spreading all over the world.

Alkenstar is kind of boxed-in, trade-wise, by Nex and Geb, arguably the two most magically-potent nations in the Inner Sea, both at least somewhat invested in maintaining the dominance of their own magical exports, and the ones most likely to have unarmored troops with magical or supernatural defenses (negating at least some of the advantage of firearms over longbows). If guns leave Alkenstar in any meaningful numbers, it would be through Katapesh (whose economy is ruthlessly controlled by the Pactmasters, who may well be taking financial incentives from Nex to 'discourage' or 'lose' any large shipments of firearms from leaving Alkenstar via their ports).

Although the notion of a marauding gnoll tribe with plundered guns raiding caravans in the area has a certain sweetness...

From a thematic standpoint, I could see small quantities of guns being smuggled out of Alkenstar, which, naturally, would lead to them appearing more often in the hands of *pirates* than in the hands of the Taldan or Andoren militaries. It would be an interesting reversal of real world developments if a pirate ship coming out of the Shackles was going to be the first to shock a Chelish blockade ship by opening fire with cannons...

Numeria, on the other hand, doesn't really seem to have much in the way of firearms, or any sort of technology that isn't *strictly* controlled by the 'techno-sorcerers' of the Black Sovereign. The nation itself seems less like 'innovators' and more like scavengers using things they barely (if at all) understand (more like the 'gnolls with guns' mentioned above, than the natives of Alkenstar).

I agree to an extent, but it isn't just guns physically getting out, it's the knowledge of them. One gunsmith leaves Alkenstar and the cats out of the bag. Britain experienced this when they tried to block the ideas of the industrial revolution from escaping the British Isles. A couple of individuals found their way to Belgium and the secret was out. How long has Alkenstar had guns? It only took a couple of generations for the ideas to mature and escape from England.

Alternately, capturing the gun from pirates or marauders and reverse engineering it would not be too unlikely a possibility either.

A new military technology is perhaps the most difficult thing to contain. Take a look at nuclear proliferation today and it's a safe bet that nuclear technology is far more complex than gunpowder. If some societies are too conservative and unwilling to accept change (which I can well believe) others aren't and, sooner or later, the technology will find it's way to them.

All imo, of course. The exact circumstances of any given situation might either accelerate or retard the spread of a new technology of course. I killed the possibility off early in my own game by having alternate physics / biology / science leaving attempts at making gunpowder useless. I haven't regretted the decision, but ymmv.


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Gnoll Bard wrote:


Precisely: the sudden and rapid accelleration of technological development in Europe in the modern era is essentially a historical fluke.

China had guns for hundreds of years but never developed them beyond a fairly simple design. The Song dynasty had joint-stock companies and the printing press and produced iron products on an industrial scale, but didn't experience the kind of world-changing industrial revolution that Europe would later experience.

While China provides a number of good examples because the Chinese developed a number of the technologies that we associate with modernity in the west, most of the history of the world stands as a counterexample to the notion that technological progress must proceed in any kind of predictable pattern. Events came together in Europe in such a way that European technologies and ideas have spread across the globe, but those events occurred only once and only after anatomically modern humans had been around for the better part of 200,000 years.

I see no reason to believe that the history of technology would necessarily unfold the same way on another world, even one that superficially resembles our own.

All too true. What I expect to be the same is human nature. Give people enough time, the possibility, and the right circumstances and things will happen.


I might just dot this because I am working on my own campaign world, and could use some pointers...


I hate that Arcadia isn't developed yet.

Sooooon... :)

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

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I HATE Golarion Goblins, hate hate hate hate them. They look like a cross between footballs and troll dolls, and I hate their random superstitiousness and their sort of weird "cute sadism." More to the point I hate that they seem to be sort of the world's mascots and more attention appears to be spent on them (a la We Be Goblins) than on other "savage races."

There, I feel better now.


a good analogy to guns might be Byzantine Fire. If I recall, the Byzantine Empire was able to keep that a secret even though it was a powerful and useful naval weapons, and if IRC we still don't really know the exact recipe.

Also, guns are much less a game changer in a world where wizards can cast fireball...

Liberty's Edge

DeathQuaker wrote:

More to the point I hate that they seem to be sort of the world's mascots and more attention appears to be spent on them (a la We Be Goblins) than on other "savage races."

There, I feel better now.

Hey, yeah! Still waiting on Gnolls of Golarion, Paizo! :P


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I hate that magic is not used to do anything other than fireball monsters. That is ridiculous. Are the various races of Golarion too stupid to realize magic could make every aspect of their lives infinitely better? At the very least, use golems to build stuff, move stuff, and kill stuff rather than doing so yourself. I guess toiling away and/or risking death is something they enjoy on Golarion. Only using golems to guard forgotten dungeons for thousands of years makes much more sense.

Also, the gods fail and they all need to be killed and forgotten. Especially the so-called good ones.


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kumanekotan wrote:
I hate that magic is not used to do anything other than fireball monsters. That is ridiculous. Are the various races of Golarion too stupid to realize magic could make every aspect of their lives infinitely better? At the very least, use golems to build stuff, move stuff, and kill stuff rather than doing so yourself. I guess toiling away and/or risking death is something they enjoy on Golarion. Only using golems to guard forgotten dungeons for thousands of years makes much more sense.

Actually, there are places on Golarion where this has been tried. The problem is that, in the long run, large numbers of golems have this tendency to decide the weak fleshy things just have to go. The ways around this involve huge networks of magical runes orders of magnitude more expensive than the golems themselves, or sticking to only a very small number of golems per creator, and the rune network trick was largely lost with the fall of Thassilon.

Remember, Golarion's had a number of apocalypses, and civilization is still recovering from the most recent one. The reason a lot of things that magic can do aren't being exploited is that the knowledge to do so is in the process of being rediscovered.


kumanekotan wrote:
Also, the gods fail and they all need to be killed and forgotten. Especially the so-called good ones.

Could you elaborate? I like that the gods are fallible and in some cases (Erastil) even backwards. They hew closer in the direction of the Greek or Norse gods than Judeo-Christianity, which I think is appropriate for such a gonzo setting.


Xaaon of Korvosa wrote:
The lack of a Hobgoblin nation, one that is bent on conquest, and has a rigid military structure. I think I'm going to put one in my River Kingdoms. A Romanesque civilization, because for being highly organized militants, the only time I've seen a hobgoblin nation was in Eberron, and even then it was too savage.

I added alot of hobgoblins and giants into Molthune's military, in the SERVICE GUARANTEES CITIZENSHIP. kinda way


Several Nations and cities have active Golem works, including Nex and Magnimar. And the Jistka Imperium if memory serves was an ancient empire that used constructs as a backbone of their army.


That is true, it's just that 'right now' on Golarion golem re-development is largely in its' infancy. It'll be generations yet before there are farmer-golems to till every field, if things get that far before someone decides to drop a big rock on the whole 'civilization' thing again.


I can't stand the World Wound or Chelax and demons and devils in general.

I can't stand that there so many APs that start in Varisia.

They do not like symmetry so no law/chaos/dream/time/positive/negative plane touched races, no love for law and chaos in general. Also No plane of radiance and other design choices that I can't think of right now.

I am not big on the rule that all undead are evil with very few exceptions.

That the Tian Xia not only started in Varisia but only about half the adventure was in Tian Xia. Plus the volume was disappointing in it's use of Daemons and Devils instead of more awesome Asian style creatures.


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Set wrote:

Oh hey, my quibble about Irrisen (where does the food come from?) was kinda / sorta answered in Land of Eternal Winter with Babs introducing magic regenerating trees that produce edible bark that apparently sustains the Irriseni ecosystem!

Still, where does the snow go? It *obviously* never melts, and, in the average winter, it snows a couple feet. It's *always* winter in Irrisen, so they probably get five feet of snow a year.

Which never goes away.

Sublimation of snow and ice occurs at below-freezing temperatures.


1. I can't stand Andoran and Galt as written. Primarily, the anachronistic elements of them - 18th Century clothing/uniforms, Colonial mindset, etc.

They're just jarring in comparison to the rest of the setting. So much of Golarion is Classical in nature & theme. Rather than have some classic medieval nations mixed in with those nations, we get a mix of that just doesn't jive with the rest of the setting.

Andoran would have been better if they'd gone the route of "enlightened Camelot". It could still have been focused on freedom and anti-slavery under a "Kingdom of Free Men" model.

Galt could have been a perfect Game of Thrones style kingdom that devolved into civil war.

By the way, both of those would have supported the existence of the cavalier class far better. We FINALLY get a decent knight-based character class and we have a setting where you have to struggle to fit in the classic knight concept.

For folks that come from a deep affection for Greyhawk, I still can't figure out how we ended up with Andoran and Galt and completely missed supporting classic Greyhawk themes of secular knights & medieval kingdoms.

Andoran & Galt as written would be perfect for a Razor Coast or Freeport style of game, but I am bordering on nuking all canon-related content and reimagining them as I've described above in my home campaigns.

2. Guns in Golarion, as others have noted above. Yes, they've said magic is a deterrent/impeder of widespread adoption. Yes, it's limited to the Alkenstar region (somewhat). But it was also one of the most transformational technologies with respect to warfare to ever be invented.

Then we get the "Guns go with pirates" crowd, as if pirates never existed prior to gunpowder. Yes, I know cutlass & flintlock and cannons are the iconic image one gets when you hear the word "pirate" but it's not as if you're going to have cannons and guns on ships and they're going to stop working when you get to ground warfare. If you're running a pirate campaign one-off, go for it. But you can't avoid affecting the campaign setting as a whole. (Fortunately, Paizo went for the "limited guns" route in Skull & Shackles.)

3. While I like the humanocentric focus of Golarion, I'd lik a little bit better integration of fantasy races. I love the Forlorn take on elves and Pathfinder gnomes and goblins. But I'd like orcs to thrive in more than one place. I also don't understand the need to further explode the number of player character races when such races will be a "niche of a niche" in such a human-centric setting. The core races and monsters have a hard enough time carving out their place in Golarion without the additional competition.

I love the Golarion setting. Generally, speaking, I love the kitchen-sink approach. But sometimes, the answer should be "No" to avoid turning the setting into a hodge-podge mess.


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That the Yuki-onna is a LE undead and incorporeal at that, when it should have been a CN fey.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

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There is a hobgoblin kingdom in the Dragon Empires, just not in the 'west'.

==Aelryinth


I don't much like the concept of Numeria, with its alien technology, but that's OK; I just don't use it in my game.


>Secular knights and medieval kingdoms.

It's called "Brevoy" :)


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Dragon78 wrote:
That the Yuki-onna is a LE undead and incorporeal at that, when it should have been a CN fey.

There a quite a few of monsters that should be fey. The Dullahan, for example. It bugs me, too.

But that's not a Golarion problem.


tonyz wrote:

>Secular knights and medieval kingdoms.

It's called "Brevoy" :)

One kingdom out of the campaign setting doesn't cut it and it still doesn't make Andoran or Galt integrate better with the rest of the setting.

Dark Archive

Coriat wrote:
Set wrote:

Still, where does the snow go? It *obviously* never melts, and, in the average winter, it snows a couple feet. It's *always* winter in Irrisen, so they probably get five feet of snow a year.

Which never goes away.

Sublimation of snow and ice occurs at below-freezing temperatures.

Good point. Never was a bad word. Sublimation would ever-so-slightly mitigate the effect.

Instead of being buried under 7000 ft. of snow after 1400 years of endless winter, Irrisen would probably only be buried under 5000-6000 ft. of snow. :)

(The weight of the snow compacting the lower levels would also take off some height from that number, but not actually do anything towards making the country more livable.)


DeathQuaker wrote:

I HATE Golarion Goblins, hate hate hate hate them. They look like a cross between footballs and troll dolls, and I hate their random superstitiousness and their sort of weird "cute sadism." More to the point I hate that they seem to be sort of the world's mascots and more attention appears to be spent on them (a la We Be Goblins) than on other "savage races."

There, I feel better now.

Haters gonna hate.

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