The lack of a Hobgoblin nation, one that is bent on conquest, and has a rigid military structure. I think I'm going to put one in my River Kingdoms. A Romanesque civilization, because for being highly organized militants, the only time I've seen a hobgoblin nation was in Eberron, and even then it was too savage.I'm expecting Hobgoblin Mongols myself at some point. Even if they don't. I'm going to have them :-)
I envisioned hobgoblins that way in Warhammer Role Play first edition - there were some references to Hobgoblin Hegemony between World's End Mountains an Cathay, later retconed to be Chaos Dwarf lands (I think that in 2nd edition they were replaced with bands of eastern barbaraic tribe of chaos marauder related to Ungols). I still keep some bits of Mongolian culture and traits in hobgoblins.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Its still young but the lack of a bad A iconic figure. People might hate him or love him, but a lot of D&D people know who Drizzt is. I still enjoy his stories and love the fact this guy is still walking around Faerun doing his thing.
But as I said, the world is still young.
Hey, we've got Radovan! Who needs Driz'zt...
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I don't especially like the fact that some of the gods used to be mortal but managed to run an obstacle course and won godhood. In my opinion, divinity shouldn't be a career option. But I realize that's probably just me.
|
I don't especially like the fact that some of the gods used to be mortal but managed to run an obstacle course and won godhood. In my opinion, divinity shouldn't be a career option. But I realize that's probably just me.
I agree more or less, but it doesn't bug me. Just not something I agree with, so i change it when I run. :)
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I don't especially like the fact that some of the gods used to be mortal but managed to run an obstacle course and won godhood. In my opinion, divinity shouldn't be a career option. But I realize that's probably just me.I agree more or less, but it doesn't bug me. Just not something I agree with, so i change it when I run. :)
Kind of like "locking the door" behind you, eh? :)
|
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Kind of like "locking the door" behind you, eh? :)I don't especially like the fact that some of the gods used to be mortal but managed to run an obstacle course and won godhood. In my opinion, divinity shouldn't be a career option. But I realize that's probably just me.I agree more or less, but it doesn't bug me. Just not something I agree with, so i change it when I run. :)
Are you implying I was once mortal? For even being vague enough to maybe be implying it I should have you skinned alive, salted down and forced to belly crawl across the field of eternal frat house broken beer bottles, where all bottles from all frat houses end up.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I do like the setting quite a bit, but there are several things I am not fond of as well, many of which have been brought up in this thread already.
1: Too Humanocentric. Its like they lined up the 12 human ethnicities with the elves, dwarves, halfings, etc and said "Ok everyone who is going to be a major player in our new setting step forward....not so fast demihumans". Each of the demihuman races feel pretty generic, and by generic I dont mean cliched or stereotyped, I mean very little about them feels (I almost loathe using these terms, but they apply) cool and exciting enough to make you latch on and care, and they are pushed so far into the background you almost forget they are there.
Say what you will about FR elves (too many subraces I know, but we never use half of them anyway), but they are connected and integrated into the world in a way that makes you develop a feeling for them (whether it is love or hate) with their rich history which leads all the way up to their current day, still relevant in the grand scheme, culture. Not to mention dwarves are more interesting in FR, as well as the halflings (have their own nation), gnomes are the only race that is slightly better off than there alternate world kin (though nowhere near as cool as Dragonlance gnomes imo). FR Humans were no slouches either, having a few little ole empires, such as Imaskari and Netheril, and much of the modern day power. In conclusion, all I really feel for most of the Golarion demihumans is...apathy.
2: The Gods. Its not that there arent enough (although only 20 that get real facetime does seem a little low), but many of them seem just really dull, lacking in personality, overarching goals (for some), and connection to one another, and by connection I dont mean coming from the same lineage or being related, but actively working machinations against one another (both personally and through their churches). And not just between good and evil (though certainly plenty of that should exist), but things like how Helm and Mystra flat out do not like each other, or Bane and Cyric constantly vying for power over the Zhentarim, or everyone being pissed at Lathander for the Dawn Cataclysm when he tried to remake things as he thought they should be.
Sure a few examples like this exist in Golarion, such as Sarenrae and Rovagug, but that feels so far in the past that it has little effect in the current game world. Im not saying Pathfinder should have anything as convoluted as a Time of Troubles, but some modern day interaction and intrigue between the deities would definitely be a good thing. Oh, my one giant exception to this would be Cayden Cailean, whoever created him and his backstory deserves and beer and a hug (not to mention an ENnie).
3: Personalities. One thing that has always drawn me to a game world has been the living breathing characters who inhabit it. Khelben, Halastar, Raistlin, Sturm, Elaith, Jarlaxle, all theses names and more, they infuse the world with (no pun intended) character...and flavor, more flavor than just describing a nation can give, Golarion has none of these. Now, I am aware other setting like FR and DL have had decades to write novels and stories featuring these NPC's, but Golarions been out for what 4 years now, and not one legitimate contender has emerged. It wouldn't even necessarily have to be novels, include some key NPC's (complete with full backstorys and descriptions, not just small blurbs and then stats) in some of the sourcebooks and then have them keep popping up and voila.
However, do not misconstrue my complaint here, I'm not saying I want a world with a plethora of high level NPC's there to "steal the PC's thunder" (a complaint about FR that I never really got, and has never come up once in our FR campaigns). Hell, Elaith "the Serpent" Craulnober is one of my all time favorite NPC's and his official stats have him at like 11th level, so not every cool game world personality needs to be earth-shakingly powerful.
Those are my major Golarion gripes, there are also a great many things I do like about the setting, but thats not what this thread is for.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Are you implying I was once mortal? For even being vague enough to maybe be implying it I should have you skinned alive, salted down and forced to belly crawl across the field of eternal frat house broken beer bottles, where all bottles from all frat houses end up.Kind of like "locking the door" behind you, eh? :)I don't especially like the fact that some of the gods used to be mortal but managed to run an obstacle course and won godhood. In my opinion, divinity shouldn't be a career option. But I realize that's probably just me.I agree more or less, but it doesn't bug me. Just not something I agree with, so i change it when I run. :)
That depends which gaming continuity are you from?
|
|
3: Personalities. One thing that has always drawn me to a game world has been the living breathing characters who inhabit it. Khelben, Halastar, Raistlin, Sturm, Elaith, Jarlaxle, all theses names and more, they infuse the world with (no pun intended) character...and flavor, more flavor than just describing a nation can give, Golarion has none of these. Now, I am aware other setting like FR and DL have had decades to write novels and stories featuring these NPC's, but Golarions been out for what 4 years now, and not one legitimate contender has emerged. It wouldn't even necessarily have to be novels, include some key NPC's (complete with full backstorys and descriptions, not just small blurbs and then stats) in some of the sourcebooks and then have them keep popping up and voila.
Ed Greenwood really started that ball rolling from the beginning, by writing as many 'in-character' articles and short fiction pieces as he did.
Lacking a magazine, that so many are reading, like Dragon, I don't think that Paizo really has a venue for that sort of thing. The AP fiction is obviously meant to serve that niche, to an extent, but at $20 a month, not everyone buys every AP, and, since the fiction is rarely tied into rules-elements, the way Ed's articles usually were, not everyone is even reading it. (Even the whacky Wizards Three authorial insert fics included new spells at the end of the fiction.)
If some web-articles introducing new spells started with some in-character comments by Ezren or Seoni, or articles on new weapons or techniques with in-character commentary by Merisel or Valeros, that might go a bit towards adding a bit of that sort of 'personality.'
I'm not feeling the need for that sort of thing (since, frankly, I got enough of it in the Realms, and the honeymoon is long over), but it might create a bit more of a sense of engagement in the iconic NPCs, or members of various factions (having a Kalistocrat discussing trade stuff, and a Pathfinder discussing exploration stuff, a Red Mantis introduce something about local laws (and how to get around them), etc.) or nationalities (an 'iconic Taldan' discussing something with Micheal Kortes as the 'iconic Shoanti' snarking from the side-lines).
Greyhawk didn't go into really dealing with the personalities of the Circle of Eight (or did so after-the-fact). Dragonlance, IMO, went too far, and created an entire game setting built around the actions of a single adventuring party, whose tales had already been told, making it *feel* less like a setting one could use, than a pretty picture that had already been painted and set up for display.
With the recent push towards factions and stuff, I'd be less inclined to use the standard Iconics anyway. None of them are as strongly integrated into the setting as I would prefer (in many cases, because the setting and its factions, etc. was being developed as they were, and has grown considerably beyond them).
Ed Greenwood really started that ball rolling from the beginning, by writing as many 'in-character' articles and short fiction pieces as he did.
Lacking a magazine, that so many are reading, like Dragon, I don't think that Paizo really has a venue for that sort of thing. The AP fiction is obviously meant to serve that niche, to an extent, but at $20 a month, not everyone buys every AP, and, since the fiction is rarely tied into rules-elements, the way Ed's articles usually were, not everyone is even reading it. (Even the whacky Wizards Three authorial insert fics included new spells at the end of the fiction.)
If some web-articles introducing new spells started with some in-character comments by Ezren or Seoni, or articles on new weapons or techniques with in-character commentary by Merisel or Valeros, that might go a bit towards adding a bit of that sort of 'personality.'
I'm not feeling the need for that sort of thing (since, frankly, I got enough of it in the Realms, and the honeymoon is long over), but it might create a bit more of a sense of engagement in the iconic NPCs, or members of various factions (having a Kalistocrat discussing trade stuff, and a Pathfinder discussing exploration stuff,...
Yup, damn that Ed Greenwood for creating a living breathing world full of detail, flavor, and wonder instead of just a backdrop for PC's to play around in. ;)
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Please don't crucify me for saying, but one of the things that bugs me about Golarion is that Lovecraft seems to getting more and more ingrained into the setting as each book gets published.
Now, I am NOT a Lovecraft hater. I love his work. Hell, I'm a purist when it comes to his work-as in, not a fan of August Derleth- and I own a copy of everything he ever wrote.
But I always felt that Lovecraft was cosmic horror, and Pathfinder is fantasy, and the two, IMO, simply do not mix well. In cosmic horror, the characters are helpless in an alien universe that is completely apathetic to their meaningless existence. In fantasy the characters charge the Thing That Must Not Be with magic weapons and uber spells, obliterating it in a giant explosion and save the world.
I just can't see how you can reconcile the two. I mean, we've got Rovagug, we've got Lamashtu, we've got Asmodeus. We've got the Four Horsemen. Why do we need Nyalarthotep and Yog-Sothoth?
If you can guess by now, I'm also not a big fan of Numeria. In my games I run it as a barbaric country. No crashed alien space ship, no ubertech.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Lacking a magazine, that so many are reading, like Dragon, I don't think that Paizo really has a venue for that sort of thing. The AP fiction is obviously meant to serve that niche, to an extent, but at $20 a month, not everyone buys every AP, and, since the fiction is rarely tied into rules-elements, the way Ed's articles usually were, not everyone is even reading it. (Even the whacky Wizards Three authorial insert fics included new spells at the end of the fiction.)
If I may add...
The Wayfinders and sites like the web fiction archive, and Paizo's weekly web fiction also help with this, as do the novels. We may not have an 'Elminster, super narrator, but we do have a Radovan's eye view of Golarion, as well as an Arni-
Squirrel!
Ahem, others point of view of the world. Given time, there will be a lot of 'ground level' perspectives.
|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Yup, damn that Ed Greenwood for creating a living breathing world full of detail, flavor, and wonder instead of just a backdrop for PC's to play around in. ;)
Some folks prefer worlds where the PCs feel like heroes, instead of being pale shadows of a bunch of Mary Sue level 40 NPCs that hang around in taverns and do nothing. Just sayin'.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I feel I must point out that some of the grievances others mention here are actually things I like about Golarion; especially the number and quality of gods, the humano-centricism, and absolutely the lack of other high-level personalities in the world.
</threadjack>
Please don't crucify me for saying, but one of the things that bugs me about Golarion is that Lovecraft seems to getting more and more ingrained into the setting as each book gets published.
Now, I am NOT a Lovecraft hater. I love his work. Hell, I'm a purist when it comes to his work-as in, not a fan of August Derleth- and I own a copy of everything he ever wrote.
But I always felt that Lovecraft was cosmic horror, and Pathfinder is fantasy, and the two, IMO, simply do not mix well. In cosmic horror, the characters are helpless in an alien universe that is completely apathetic to their meaningless existence. In fantasy the characters charge the Thing That Must Not Be with magic weapons and uber spells, obliterating it in a giant explosion and save the world.
I just can't see how you can reconcile the two. I mean, we've got Rovagug, we've got Lamashtu, we've got Asmodeus. We've got the Four Horsemen. Why do we need Nyalarthotep and Yog-Sothoth?
+1
If you can guess by now, I'm also not a big fan of Numeria. In my games I run it as a barbaric country. No crashed alien space ship, no ubertech.
I don't have a problem with Numeria, per say. I just wish that they would do someting with it.
I feel I must point out that some of the grievances others mention here are actually things I like about Golarion; especially the number and quality of gods, the humano-centricism, and absolutely the lack of other high-level personalities in the world.
</threadjack>
Have you checked out Inner Sea Magic lately? There seem to be quite a few high-epic level NPCs in there.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Have you checked out Inner Sea Magic lately? There seem to be quite a few high-epic level NPCs in there.
Notice how many of them are "historical" or dead. Also, many of them are campaign-capping BBEGs from adventure paths, and quite a few of them are said to be "off-limits" to future development so that GMs can use them freely.
But most importantly for me, none of them are Elminster or Drizzt — NPCs who fill the role of PCs but are actually just the developers' characters who already went around and did everything important in the setting.
I know it's OT, but reading this thread gives me the overwhelming urge to say "but I really like that". I suppose I just really like Golarion.
'Cept some of the costumes are really doofy.
How it seems each land is so unique and flavorful but that completely stops at the borders, no lands seem to influence the other lands. For example: You don't have the high technology (from where ever that's from) slipping through and winding up in the hands of Asmodeus's servants, it all stays nice and neat in its country of origin. To me that makes it have a Ravenloft type feel where dozens of countries who have nothing to do with one another are suddenly jammed up next to each other but without Ravenloft's justifications for such events.
Yeah, that's part of what I mean when I say that countries are "gimmicky".
|
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
How it seems each land is so unique and flavorful but that completely stops at the borders, no lands seem to influence the other lands. For example: You don't have the high technology (from where ever that's from) slipping through and winding up in the hands of Asmodeus's servants, it all stays nice and neat in its country of origin. To me that makes it have a Ravenloft type feel where dozens of countries who have nothing to do with one another are suddenly jammed up next to each other but without Ravenloft's justifications for such events.
In some ways it makes sense.
Look at Charles DeLint's 1634 novel. The 21st century town is ported back to 1634. They have a power plant and coal, but realize early on, they're not going to be able to maintain a 21st level of tech, but 19th century tech is doable, with some bells and whistles. Even when some other nations spy/steal the blueprints, they can't make much of it. (History books, OTOH...)
For example, if someone finds a M-16 in Numeria, and takes it to Alkenstar, it might improve their gun process, but they can't make ammo/barrels components to the standards of the 20th century weapon, even if they can make guns. Likewise, a Alkenstar Rifle is going to run into reproduction issues in Cheliax. And who knows how well the alchemists can replicate gunpowder? (Aside, Taldor had bombards at their height, so guns do/can exist outside of Alkenstar)
Now they might be able to replicate it in terms they can understand (The M-16 might be enchanted to create and fire bolts of force, a shotgun might be able to be enchanted to fire a cone of damage like the psionic hail of crystals power, etc.) but at that point you might as well craft a wand or staff.
All this is before taking into account political/social/religious machinations. (Church of Asmodaeus preaches against 'hellfire guns' not officially being Nine Hells approved hellfire, church of Gorum considers them cowardly, nation of Taldor doesn't like the 'new ways' Powder and the Sodden lands don't mix, etc.) Or pesky mages not wanting non-spell tossers edging into their 'touch attack' domain.
Edit: Adventurers, of course, are the exception to the rule.
Look at Charles DeLint's 1634 novel.
(cough) Eric Flint (cough)
How it seems each land is so unique and flavorful but that completely stops at the borders, no lands seem to influence the other lands. For example: You don't have the high technology (from where ever that's from) slipping through and winding up in the hands of Asmodeus's servants, it all stays nice and neat in its country of origin. To me that makes it have a Ravenloft type feel where dozens of countries who have nothing to do with one another are suddenly jammed up next to each other but without Ravenloft's justifications for such events.
Who says you don't? There is no reason in any of the books to assume that hi-tech stuff from Numeria has not slipped out. Actualy that is a really great adventure idea there. The PCs get hired by the church of Asmodeus to steal x from the starship(probably unknowingly )...go get it and than must get away from the Asmodeus Church before they complete y plot with it.
I have never seen anything in any of the Golarion books that says you can't ruyn such a adventure....heck I think a similiar ideaa appeared in the adventure hook sections of the book.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Some folks prefer worlds where the PCs feel like heroes, instead of being pale shadows of a bunch of Mary Sue level 40 NPCs that hang around in taverns and do nothing. Just sayin'.
Yup, damn that Ed Greenwood for creating a living breathing world full of detail, flavor, and wonder instead of just a backdrop for PC's to play around in. ;)
It is good thing that the FR was NOT like that at all.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It is good thing that the FR was NOT like that at all.Some folks prefer worlds where the PCs feel like heroes, instead of being pale shadows of a bunch of Mary Sue level 40 NPCs that hang around in taverns and do nothing. Just sayin'.
Yup, damn that Ed Greenwood for creating a living breathing world full of detail, flavor, and wonder instead of just a backdrop for PC's to play around in. ;)
Indeed. For the vast majority of my 17 years of gaming, the Realms was our world of choice, and we never once ran into Elminster or Drizzt, nor were we overshadowed by high level npc's. The Realms are a big place, after all.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It is good thing that the FR was NOT like that at all.Some folks prefer worlds where the PCs feel like heroes, instead of being pale shadows of a bunch of Mary Sue level 40 NPCs that hang around in taverns and do nothing. Just sayin'.
Yup, damn that Ed Greenwood for creating a living breathing world full of detail, flavor, and wonder instead of just a backdrop for PC's to play around in. ;)
It was - in the minds of those who used this as excuse not to play FR. Never mind, they never ever played FR anyway - they refused on the princliple that there is Elminster... Argh...
|
To be fair, I did run into published encounters in FR that did consist of "Elminster saves the day and leaves, utterly ignoring the PCs, despite having hired them." They were mostly in magazines and such--I believe one Polyhedron back around 1e/2e stated that if the PCs fell low on hit points, Elminster and a puppy would teleport in, and Elminster would start trying to get the puppy to heel. Every time he called out, "Heel!", his Wand of Healing would go off and cast Heal on a random PC. Then, when the party was healthy enough, they would teleport out. The PCs couldn't talk, interrupt, or interact with them in any way.
Suffice to say, I never used that. But yes, such encounters did get published, on occasion.
Back to things about Golarion that bug me: the art acts like everything is turned up to 11. It's as if there's never a moment's peace for anyone. That's easily fixable, though.
To be fair, I did run into published encounters in FR that did consist of "Elminster saves the day and leaves, utterly ignoring the PCs, despite having hired them." They were mostly in magazines and such--I believe one Polyhedron back around 1e/2e stated that if the PCs fell low on hit points, Elminster and a puppy would teleport in, and Elminster would start trying to get the puppy to heel. Every time he called out, "Heel!", his Wand of Healing would go off and cast Heal on a random PC. Then, when the party was healthy enough, they would teleport out. The PCs couldn't talk, interrupt, or interact with them in any way.
I remember that adventure...I think it came in one of the 2nd ed box sets or something like that...
Yeah that was a stupid encounter.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I remember that adventure...I think it came in one of the 2nd ed box sets or something like that...
Yeah that was a stupid encounter.
Found it!
It was "Beneath the Twisted Tower," in the 2e boxed set for the Forgotten Realms. In other words, one of the first things you encounter in the Realms is Elminster saving your butts not because he cares, but because he saves the world accidentally five times before breakfast.
No wonder the increasingly inaccurately named Forgotten Realms gets such a bad rap. It was fine, great, even, in the 1e days.
Back on topic: I reiterate that I could still use more subtlely in the Golarion art.
|
|
I remember that adventure...I think it came in one of the 2nd ed box sets or something like that...
Yeah that was a stupid encounter.
Found it!
It was "Beneath the Twisted Tower," in the 2e boxed set for the Forgotten Realms. In other words, one of the first things you encounter in the Realms is Elminster saving your butts not because he cares, but because he saves the world accidentally five times before breakfast.
No wonder the increasingly inaccurately named Forgotten Realms gets such a bad rap. It was fine, great, even, in the 1e days.
Back on topic: I reiterate that I could still use more subtlely in the Golarion art.
I remember that! As a middle schooler, I actually thought it was pretty funny. If I remember correctly, you were allowed to interact with them, but if you just asked Elminster to heal you, he'd refuse (the jerk). Instead, you could basically trick him into healing you by staying hidden and getting the puppy to come toward you, forcing him to keep saying "Heel!"
I remember that adventure...I think it came in one of the 2nd ed box sets or something like that...
Yeah that was a stupid encounter.
Found it!
It was "Beneath the Twisted Tower," in the 2e boxed set for the Forgotten Realms. In other words, one of the first things you encounter in the Realms is Elminster saving your butts not because he cares, but because he saves the world accidentally five times before breakfast.
No wonder the increasingly inaccurately named Forgotten Realms gets such a bad rap. It was fine, great, even, in the 1e days.
The problem was that it was attempt at humor...done very badly granted...but it was not meant to be a 'Hey you PCs suck' thing. But I get your point...which is why ignored the modules and the novels....
Some folks prefer worlds where the PCs feel like heroes, instead of being pale shadows of a bunch of Mary Sue level 40 NPCs that hang around in taverns and do nothing. Just sayin'.
Yup, damn that Ed Greenwood for creating a living breathing world full of detail, flavor, and wonder instead of just a backdrop for PC's to play around in. ;)
/eyeroll
I'm sorry that you had such a horrible Realms DM, I really am.
|
Vendor - Fantasiapelit Tampere
|
As for things that are no big deal that I change in my own game:
. That's what it's called.
Not some lame ass name that sounds like a children's Tylenol.Speaking of names of places that are real-life medicines, Nidal just doesn't exist in my Golarion. Not even to Pangolais is a hidden city somewhere in that forest run by the Umbral Court -- and it's got spies in Nisroch -- but all that land around the Uskwood belongs to Cheliax.
So does Isger.
And Korvosa.
And Sargava.
All part of Cheliax.
.
.
.
Taldor extends further east -- the huge mountain range just begins a bit further east.
.
Galt is a single, large city.
.
Molthune has already conquered, Nazi-Blitzkrieg style, Numeria and Druma. They are at war with both the Orcs of Belkzen and especially the Elves of Kyonin. One can find "Concentration Camps" in Molthune with elves, orcs and even other human ethnicities that aren't specifically Mothun.
.
Sarkoris still exists as a city.
.
Lastwall is a town in Ustalov; Molthune, especially with the threat of northern Orcs, will Not risk encroaching on Ustalov. (Even Hitler is afraid of Ustalov!)
.
Geb never existed (apologies to Erik); it's all Nex underneath Katapesh.
That actually sounds quite cool. Especialy the Cheliax-part. Nice.
Firearms are mostly the only thing that I did'nt like in Golarion, but that was so small and little thing so it does'nt matter. Then there are thing that are less cooler than others, but otherwise it's pure win.
|
|
Some folks prefer worlds where the PCs feel like heroes, instead of being pale shadows of a bunch of Mary Sue level 40 NPCs that hang around in taverns and do nothing. Just sayin'.
Yup, damn that Ed Greenwood for creating a living breathing world full of detail, flavor, and wonder instead of just a backdrop for PC's to play around in. ;)/eyeroll
I'm sorry that you had such a horrible Realms DM, I really am.
I didn't have a horrible DM, I just read the Campaign Setting :) If page 7 gives me a CR 45 guy who could solve all the problems of this setting in one afternoon, my excitement meter drops pretty much to zero. Why aspire to be a hero when the world is full of demigod-level NPCs whom you can meet just by walking down the street?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I didn't have a horrible DM, I just read the Campaign Setting :) If page 7 gives me a CR 45 guy who could solve all the problems of this setting in one afternoon, my excitement meter drops pretty much to zero. Why aspire to be a hero when the world is full of demigod-level NPCs whom you can meet just by walking down the street?Some folks prefer worlds where the PCs feel like heroes, instead of being pale shadows of a bunch of Mary Sue level 40 NPCs that hang around in taverns and do nothing. Just sayin'.
Yup, damn that Ed Greenwood for creating a living breathing world full of detail, flavor, and wonder instead of just a backdrop for PC's to play around in. ;)/eyeroll
I'm sorry that you had such a horrible Realms DM, I really am.
But the thing is, for every one "superhero" in the Realms, there a five supervillians for the PC's to deal with the machinations of, and then ultimately them themselves. Couple that fact with this and it makes more sense.
The Concerns of the Mighty:
There comes a time when every student and many a passion merchant, farmer, and king, too, demands the same answer of me: Why, O medler and mighty mage, do ye not set the crooked straight? Why not strike directly against the evils that threaten Faerun? Why do all mighty folk of good heart not simply make everything right?
I've heard that cry so many times. Now hearken, once and for all, to my answers as to why the great and powerful don't fix Toril entire every day.
First, it is not at all certain that those of us with the power or the inclination can even accomplish a tenth of the deed asked of us. The forces arrayed against us are dark and strong indeed. I might surprise Manshoon, or old Szass Tam and burn him from the face of Toril-or he might do the same to me. It's a rash and short-lived hero who presses for battle when victory is not assured.
Second, the wise amongst us know that even gods can't foresee all the consequences of their actions-and all of us have seen far too many instances of good things turning out to cause something very bad, or unwanted. We've learned that meddling often does far more harm than good.
Third: Few folk can agree on what is right, what should be done, and what the best end result would be. When ye consider a mighty stroke, be assured that every move is apt to be countered by someone who doesn't like the intended result, is determined to stop it, and is quite prepared to lay waste to you, your kingdom, and anything else necessary to confound you.
Point the fourth: Big Changes can seldom be effected by small actions. How much work does it take just to build one house? Rearrange one room? How many simple little actions, then, will it take to destroy one kingdom and raise another-with name, ruler, and societal order of your choice-in its place?
Finally: D'ye think we "mighty ones" are blind? Do we not watch each other, and guess at what each is doing, and reach out to do some little thing that hampers the aims of another great, and mighty? We'll never be free of this problem, and that's a good thing. I would cower at the thought of living in any Faerun where all the mighty and powerful folk agreed perfectly on everything. That's the way of slavery and shackles and armed tyranny...and if ye'd like to win a bet, wager that ye'll be mear the bottom of any such order.
Right. Any more silly questions?
-Elminster of Shadowdale
You know though, I have always wondered, if Elminster had been a True Neutral reclusive hermit that wants to be left alone, instead of a Chaotic Good reclusive hermit that wants to be left alone, one simple alignment change, would this have ever have been near as big an issue to (some) people...
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Oh. Em. Gee.
I said something nice about Ed Greenwood's descriptive writing style contributing to the success of the Realms, *and* said that not everything he wrote made me moist, and now it's crazytown.
Thorazine! Thorazine for everyone! (I'll take a double...)
Crazy......MADNESS!!! Dont make me pull out my 1E stuff...I'll freakin do it!!....MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA
But seriously, I usually like at least a little of what the ole Bag o' Devouring has to say, but on this we will have to agree to disagree. I do find it funny however that when I was talking about personalities I made a point to say engaging characters didnt have to be super high level (using Elaith as my example), and specifically did not mention Elminster, yet he always seems to get brought up.
|
Derrrrp. I meant Gorum instead of Torag. I'm getting my dual syllable martial gods mixed up. I agree that Torag is a dull dull creature.
Sorceror police - if you have 13 year olds running around the countryside spurting raw magic/fire/things with tentacles out of their hands, an organised country has some form of keeping an eye on this and shipping them off to Golarion's equivalent of Professor X's mansion. SORCEROR POLICE. Also a great sitcom pitch.
Summoners. I'd rather have a number of flavourful options for how summoners exist in the world rather than just "Oh, there are some folks running around adventuring with huge extraplanar beasts limited only by people's imaginations". Let's integrate them the same ways wizards are integrated! Does Cheliax have an entire corps of Devil Summoners? Are there sacred sites in each nation where Summoners first meet and commune with their Eidolons for the first time? Are their rogue Eidolons who have continued to exist long after their summoner masters have died? All of this could really make Golarion unique, the same way psionic class integration worked for Eberron.
I have to admit I've got the Inner Sea field guide, not Inner Sea magic. That might straighten things up for me.
|
I just can't see how you can reconcile the two. I mean, we've got Rovagug, we've got Lamashtu, we've got Asmodeus. We've got the Four Horsemen. Why do we need Nyalarthotep and Yog-Sothoth?
Yes. Because there cannot ever be enough villans. If you don't want to feature them, simply do not feature them. Its that simple. But to say 'No! You can't be a sorcerer of the Dark Tapestry, because I don't want lovecraft in my fantasy.' isn't really cool. Rather you could say 'Fine, but be aware that I do not intend for that to me a major aspect of this campaign.' Of course I should also mention that I'm becomeing a fan of importing the first rule of improv to DMing.
As a side note, I can actually understand Lovcraft purists not liking mixing it up more than haters.
|
|
Summoners. I'd rather have a number of flavourful options for how summoners exist in the world rather than just "Oh, there are some folks running around adventuring with huge extraplanar beasts limited only by people's imaginations". Let's integrate them the same ways wizards are integrated! Does Cheliax have an entire corps of Devil Summoners? Are there sacred sites in each nation where Summoners first meet and commune with their Eidolons for the first time? Are their rogue Eidolons who have continued to exist long after their summoner masters have died? All of this could really make Golarion unique, the same way psionic class integration worked for Eberron.
Awesome ideas, worthy of being an article, somewhere.
Nidalese Summoners who call up beasts of 'living darkness,' or Nexian Summoners who conjure forth beasts first created in the legendary Fleshforges, or Qadiri Summoners who summon forth fantastical beasts using a form of geniecraft, could be all kinds of awesome.
I don't have a problem with Numeria, per say. I just wish that they would do someting with it.
I agree. On the surface I'm not a fan of Numeria, but kind of at least dig the concept of a nation of Conan-esque barbarians fighting for freedom from the alien-powered Sorcerer Kings. It kind of reminds me of John Norman's Gor books and its warrior culture vs. the Priest Kings.
Not sure I'm interpreting it right, but that's the vibe that works for me.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I don't have a problem with Numeria, per say. I just wish that they would do someting with it.I agree. On the surface I'm not a fan of Numeria, but kind of at least dig the concept of a nation of Conan-esque barbarians fighting for freedom from the alien-powered Sorcerer Kings. It kind of reminds me of John Norman's Gor books and its warrior culture vs. the Priest Kings.
Not sure I'm interpreting it right, but that's the vibe that works for me.
From out of space comes a runaway planetiod, crashing into Golarion. Unleashing cosmic destruction!
Man's civilization is cast into ruins.
Ten thousand years later Golarion is reborn. A strange new world of savagery, super-science, and sorcery....
Demon Dogs!
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I didn't have a horrible DM, I just read the Campaign Setting :) If page 7 gives me a CR 45 guy who could solve all the problems of this setting in one afternoon, my excitement meter drops pretty much to zero. Why aspire to be a hero when the world is full of demigod-level NPCs whom you can meet just by walking down the street?
I never had an issue with that. Granted I cut my teeth on the Superhero RPGs and comics.... soooo I'm used to the idea of 'Why do they need Daredevil around when the Avengers and Thor are just over THERE...'
The answer is usually quite simple. They have their OWN adventures they're in the middle of. Drizzt isn't available right now... YOU have to save the world.
Honestly, I'm running into the OPPOSITE mentality here... Where the heck are the COMPETANT Npcs?? Not wanting to give away any spoilers... so I'll be very vague...
First night of a game, Our characters become heralded as heroes of a city... At level ONE... 2sorcerers, a monk and a druid... at levle ONE are the most awesome thing these people have ever seen...
Another time... my party shows up in a town with a the typical murders... since we questioned about it... we must be suspects... since we JUST got there... we were able to talke our way out.
They had been fighting this problem for 3 months... ZERO leads, NO suspects... we solved it in an afternoon.
I'm FINE with us being better then the average villager... but WOW. These citizens are USELESS without us ;)
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
To me, Golarion really is a little bit of everything for everyone, both for good and for ill. Someone out there is going to want Khemri (Egypt) in their world, so we have Osirion. Someone else misses Ravenloft, so we have a place and AP of vampires and gothic horrors.
The vastness of the world really seems overwhelming to me. So many worlds are giant human-centric places. Greyhawk, and the REalms come to mind. Myself, I love Eberron. Eberron has clearly defined cultures and continents, and doesn't mirror everything every other major campaign setting or real world culture has to offer.
Now you've got me wanting to plan a long-delayed trip to the UK, just when my wife announces that we need to fly to Boston this year. You may need to have a pint of your best on my behalf, in hopes that I get to make that trip during this lifetime.Give us a bell if you're ever in the area...:)
So, this post is a couple weeks old, but if your going to Boston you can visit the Higgins Armory in Worcester MA. Its about an hour outside, and is the largest collection of arms and armor in the western hemisphere.
So, this post is a couple weeks old, but if you[']r[e] going to Boston you can visit the Higgins Armory in Worcester MA. Its about an hour outside, and is the largest collection of arms and armor in the western hemisphere.
Thanks! I'm familiar with Worcester, and will probably be visiting Boston again sometome this fall, so your recommendation is timely. Unfortunatly, I doubt I'll be able to convince Mrs. Gersen that I should be excused from our friends' wedding on the basis of "historical reasearch." :(