I'm currently playing a Goliath(dm allowed some different races in this campaign) barbarian with a great axe....he is a great BSF. My int. Is a 7. I'm used to playing sorcerers wizards and clerics and I'm not sure how this one should be played. Any suggestions or is there a chart that shows what each ability score could be compared to?
Try not to have any out of game knowledge! Maybe have him attached himself to one of the other characters, follow him/her around, let him/her look after his money, choose what he eats, wears, does etc.
"Stupid" often makes the funniest characters imo. I like to have a "silly" hook/phrase that doesn't interfere with the flow of the game but adds a little humour and intrigue in your characters background.
For example...each time he rages and attacks, have him shout out "choppers mum". Chopper was his childhood friend, his mum seduced your character when he came of age but then told everyone that he had forced himself on her, resulting in him having to leave the tribe and search for a new life and leaving him with a hatred for choppers mum! He's obviously going to find it difficult to talk about this, so you could let snippets of this story out as he gets to trust his companions.
Don't forget that even a below average barbarian should be good at . . . barbarian stuff. You should still fight well, charging at the right time, attacking the right enemies, etc.
On the other hand, you shouldn't be the person figuring out mysteries, coming up with brilliant plans, etc.
Depends on wisdom score. Low intelligence typically means low skill and low knowledge so your guy isn't memorizing chemical structures or rattling off sports stats but that doesn't mean he not pondering the meaning of life or if there is any true enlightenment.
Wisdom lends itself to phylosophy and intelligence leds itself to analytics.
I always understood the intelligence stat as some measure of abstract intelligence, academics and stuff. A low int character may even enjoy snobbish stuff like expensive wine and operas and he could have a lot of street wits.
It´s a stat on a sheet of paper. Don´t let it influence you into playing your character in another way as you originally wanted.
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You probably know a guy who isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer. He's not developmentally disabled, he's just not the guy you go to for ideas or answers. This guy can do his job pretty well, especially if he's being doing it for a while. He can follow directions just fine, although if you have too many steps or conditionals in them, he might get a little confused - but he's smart enough to realize he's confused. He's not a big reader, and if stories/fiction get too complicated, he "gets bored" because he can't follow it.
A 7 intelligence is simple, maybe a *little* dumb, but isn't "retarded".
I am playing a low INT Half Orc fighter. We keep journals and part of his journal is to write stuff down so he does nto forget it next time.
This was started after a fight with a Mummy wearing a silver mask where i missed my will save and fled in Terror.
Also, the mention of tracking. My guys tracks using "poop". "If it smells like poop what you tracking is close. If it only kinda smell like poop it is more farther away. If it no smell like poop it either long gone or you grab a rock and not poop."
"I figgur I better write myself a list of stuff to 'member about being on an adventure. Dis way I be moar ready next time:
1) Magic is scary. I dunno how all dis magic stuff works. The magic stuff where the lady raise her arms I feel better is gud. The guy who throws lights at the bad guy and the girl wif the bird who can lift me in the air is scary. If we have ta fights bad ting dat do this I hit dem first.
2) Getting sick from people in masks bad. Don't do dis.
3) Bring water. I real thirsty. Need to bring water.
4) Falling in holes bad. Falling in holes with spikes worse. Don't do dis no moar.
5) "Checking for traps" looks easy but takes a long time and don't work much. Tink I can do dis a gud as da elfs.
6) Being scared is bad
7) can track without poop but is hard
4) Falling in holes bad. Falling in holes with spikes worse. Don't do dis no moar.
o.O
You sure you aren´t playing a lolcat?
Our group has typically looked at IQ's in D&D and Pathfinder as 10 x the stat. SO a 10 would be an IQ in the neighborhood of 100 which is pretty average and fully capable. For a 7 (70) you would be in Forest Gump's territory. Fezzik from Princess Bride (in the movie) is another good example of low intelligence without being a sideshow goofball.
A lot of people have an easy time getting to a "duh" type character with low intelligence. Don't rule out the other areas of low intelligence to add some variety.
For instance, maybe his memory is just utter s@*&e. He talks normally, and is otherwise quite personable and doesn't give himself away immediately as the dunce in the corner. He nods and understands a battle plan and then...executes the first step only. Or he is supposed to get prepared for an expedition and meet back at the tavern only to be distracted at the bazaar and give away half his money to a street musician and then buy a puppy only to return with out anything he was supposed to get in the first place.
Or maybe he jets to an emotional response when confronted with something that confounds him (which will happen frequently). Hearing a person of low intelligence engage in any sort of complex thinking will usually involve: snoring, mockery of the more intelligent person(s), debating through talking louder and louder, quoting the same piece of religious verse over and over with increased fervor.
Maybe he's got a damaged area of his brain that causes him to be able to think just fine but getting anything out is a chore (a really heavy stutter for example). Nothing more frustrating than knowing the answer and then fumbling over it until that smug little wizard spits it out casually and takes all the credit.
Anyway, YMMV. However you split it I would try to avoid overly penalizing a 7 intelligence with lists of known words or causing him to constantly fowl up the group's plans or attack everything when it makes eye contact with him. That's what a 3 is for afterall :).
"M-O-O-N, that spells moon."
Probably have to have your high INT or whoever actually comes up with strategies in your campaign repeat things for you, or "dumb them down" so that you can pick it up more clearly. Or, you know, with an average WIS maybe he gets them, but is like a... machine, just plug in the numbers and go, not really thinking or even worrying about the deeper meaning.
Seems people are confusing INT 7 and Int 3 in here.
Int 7 is as remarkably stupid as int 13 is remarkably smart. You're just a deviation from the norm. You should play him as having a learning disorder and not being able to grasp complex abstracts.
Remember that Int is only one of three mental stats, and unless you have 7 all along the mental stat line, you are NOT a mentally challenged person.
More appropriate examples of int7:
- Dock/storage worker who never finished highschool
- Gang-member/thug
- Ill educated farmhand
Before someone goes and gets all insulted by my generalizations, I say again; Int 7 is NOT that low. It just SEEMS that way, because it is the lowest a player character (heroic character of marvel-comic potential) is allowed to have in a stat before racial modifiers. Try to look at it the other way, how many of you would go "WOW! You've got Int 13!? That's REALLY smart!"
Ksorkax... Naw, the thief is just not good at finding those pit traps.
I agree, a 7 is not 'end of the world' stupid. It should be a perfectly capable of functioning adventurer. Maybe not the greatest at remembering things but easily able to live in the moment.
Never have reasons for why you believe things; you don't need reasons when you're obviously right. Trust your gut. Judge people based on their character, not the merits of their ideas. Taboos are real. Cliches are simple, homely truths to you. Love the simple stuff.
In general, your character should be able to generate 1-2 solutions to a problem, while a high INT character can see many possible solutions. If you have an above average wisdom, choose the better of the 2 options your limited smarts generates.
I ran an Int 7, Wis 14, Cha 14 character some time back. He was a very personable, easy going sort, who just happened to be horrible at math, angles, and the like. He could shoot a bow, he could swing a sword, and he knew how to talk his way out of most situations - but if you asked him to solve a complex math problem or come up with the answer to anything involving "book learning," he was not going to have an answer in any sort of short-order.
Put him on a farm, however, and he could tell you exactly when that heifer was going to calf. He could follow tracks and set snares to catch meals. And he was easily the most likable of all the PC's - a genuinely easy going farm boy with a good heart and a strong back. When I played him, I just hand-waved doing most things that a PC would "normally" do when it came to his money - if he had money, he'd use it to buy food until he wasn't hungry any more, get his gear repaired, make sure his horse was happy, and then give the rest to the party Cleric because "Pa and Ma always said we gotta take care o' the church when we can." When the rest of the group was buying up more and more magical stuff with their coin, he was still wandering around with pretty much his base equipment. Every once in a while the party Cleric would come to him with new armor and weapons, and he'd always take them, but it just never once occurred to him that he could be SAVING that money to improve his gear.
As others have said, 7's not STUPID. It's just not very SHARP.
I always understood the intelligence stat as some measure of abstract intelligence, academics and stuff. A low int character may even enjoy snobbish stuff like expensive wine and operas and he could have a lot of street wits.
It´s a stat on a sheet of paper. Don´t let it influence you into playing your character in another way as you originally wanted.
Don't do this. Playing like the numbers on your paper don't mean anything (except the ones important to your class) is min/maxing at its worst. If you don't care about the numbers on the paper then why not just dump all of your unnecessary scores down to 7 because they don't mean anything anyway right?
As far as INT 7 goes I would say:
You can write but have trouble with spelling and grammar
You can do basic math but nothing as high as algebra
You know what to do in a fight but you won't be overly careful about what's going on around you
As the wizard is describing his tactics, charge when the first bad guy appears
Stuff like that.
I'm currently playing a Goliath(dm allowed some different races in this campaign) barbarian with a great axe....he is a great BSF. My int. Is a 7. I'm used to playing sorcerers wizards and clerics and I'm not sure how this one should be played. Any suggestions or is there a chart that shows what each ability score could be compared to?
Basically let all the other players do the thinking. You just keep your mouth shut when thinking situations come up unless nobody has suggested an idea that is just really simple.
I always understood the intelligence stat as some measure of abstract intelligence, academics and stuff. A low int character may even enjoy snobbish stuff like expensive wine and operas and he could have a lot of street wits.
It´s a stat on a sheet of paper. Don´t let it influence you into playing your character in another way as you originally wanted.Don't do this. Playing like the numbers on your paper don't mean anything (except the ones important to your class) is min/maxing at its worst. If you don't care about the numbers on the paper then why not just dump all of your unnecessary scores down to 7 because they don't mean anything anyway right?
As far as INT 7 goes I would say:
You can write but have trouble with spelling and grammar
You can do basic math but nothing as high as algebra
You know what to do in a fight but you won't be overly careful about what's going on around you
As the wizard is describing his tactics, charge when the first bad guy appearsStuff like that.
I think your last two lines are more Wisdom issues. If he has a good wisdom then he sees the value in tactics. It's just a low Int doesn't let him understand complex ones. If the Wizard keeps his instructions fairly simple then he will be ok.
This could be a really fun character to play. If it were me, I would scoff at any complex conversations and "forget" any overly complex instructions.
Krom talk like this!
When people ask Krom question, Krom always have best answer.
Krom say: "Violence like alcohol, if it not solving your problems, you need more!"
That all Krom have to say on topic!
Leeroooooy Jenkins!
You know what to do in a fight but you won't be overly careful about what's going on around you
As the wizard is describing his tactics, charge when the first bad guy appearsStuff like that.
Even animals have better tactical sense than that. Do you see a pack of wolves just charge blindly? Do you see a pride of lions run roaring after a herd of antilopes? No, they hide, circle, flank and use teamwork.
Again, int seven is not all that low.
Depending on WIS... WIS dictates common sense and a connection to the world. A low INT and high WIS would not walk across an unsafe bridge, he can see it won't hold him up. However, he would also not be the one to suggest a contraption that people can ride in via ropes to get to the other side.
Assume that he has a harding time "connecting the dots"
Someone said, "M-O-O-N! that spells Tom Cullen!" In the novel, Tom Cullen has a description for his idiocy: he says it's like being in a dark room, crawling and knowing that the plug you have in hand goes *somewhere* in the wall...if only he could find it!
His best and (maybe) only learning tool may be rote memorization. As I heard so many years ago, "Repetition is the foundation of clarity"
GNOME
I agree with Kamelguru that Int 7 isn't that low, though I disagree that it's not low. Your character is probably at the knife's edge between mentally challenged and just dumb. I would look, as a poster noted above, to both Forrest Gump and Fezzik (closer to Fezzik, who was merely slow and stupid, but could still occasionally come up with something clever) for inspiration. And you definitely need to look at the other two mental stats to determine his complete attitude.
I'm currently playing a Goliath(dm allowed some different races in this campaign) barbarian with a great axe....he is a great BSF. My int. Is a 7. I'm used to playing sorcerers wizards and clerics and I'm not sure how this one should be played. Any suggestions or is there a chart that shows what each ability score could be compared to?
Assuming that you yourself have greater than normal intelligence (don't we all?), playing low intelligence characters can be quite a roleplaying challenge. Avoiding metagaming becomes more difficult because your character simply doesn't know much and doesn't have a lot of capacity for reasoning things out. You have to take a back seat in many of the problem-solving and strategizing aspects of the game if you are going to accurately and fairly portray your character. For that reason, I never do play character with an intelligence under 8. It would require me to take a more passive role in parts of the game I enjoy than I would like.
A 7 Int is low, but not unplayably so. Using the 3d6 standard as the background for a standard human population, this would fall in the bottom ten percent of a randomly-generated population. So one of the slower kids in the class, but not someone who is mentally disabled. This is a person who probably either would not do well at academic pursuits or would have to work extremely hard to do reasonably well. Learning and thinking ahead/planning will not come easily to him, but he is perfectly capable of dealing with the normal challenges of life. He's not likely to be the one to come up with the great idea or solve the puzzle, but he should be able to master things like tactics and teamwork that he works on all the time.
I play my Int 7, cha 7, wis 12 fighter like forest gump.
Krom talk like this!
When people ask Krom question, Krom always have best answer.
Krom say: "Violence like alcohol, if it not solving your problems, you need more!"
That all Krom have to say on topic!
Thog: Thog like how Krom think.
Forrest Gump :)
"I lift things up and put them down."
Bye the way, who is Leroy jenkins?
Leeroy Jenkins, is from World of Warcraft. basically is a person famous for causing his guild to wipe. The guild was planning the strategy for taking the next section of the raid, whereupon Leeroy came back from something (forgot the details) and went charging in screaming his name as a battle cry. At the end he responds by saying "at least i have chicken".
Just search for leeroy jenkins on the internet, there are tons of clips.
:P
Depends on the rest of the mental stats:
High Wis AND Cha: Confident and headstrong, yet poorly educated. Pre-equality matron, wise elder of backwater village isolated from other cultures.
High Wis, Low Cha: Knows enough to keep his ill educated mouth shut, and when he has to speak, he chooses to use simple words he knows. Introverted rural type.
High Cha, low wis: Typical "hot chick" / "Cool bro"
All low: Go watch Jersey Shore.
I'm making a list of possible disadvantages for having low scores. As of now they are mostly inspirational.
Intelligence penalties
1. Short term memory loss. (so guys, how did we get in here again?)
2. Can't remember names. (yeah eh.... you! With the ears!)
3. Speech impediment: talks in possessive (Me likes weather.)
4. Mispronounces words, not aware of failure. (My intellimagence is obvously beyond yours.)
5. Consistently fails at math and counting. (there were... three creatures! No five! What's 1 + 1?)
6. Mixes facts. (Yeah the devils are chaotic and the demons are lawful!)
Wisdom penalties
1. Easily distracted.
2. Can only do one task at a time. (becomes irritated when distracted)
3. Quick to action. (if someone says "let's..." then you do it right away)
4. Can't think in abstract terms. (everything must be 'literal' to be understood, doesn't understand metaphors)
5. Wants to be the center of attention. (That plan's fine but wait till you heard mine!)
6. Superstition. (insists on opening and closing a door thrice to avoid bad luck)
7. Naieve. (Sure you can keep watch on my bag of gold!)
Charisma penalties
1. Unnaturally fast hair growth, everywhere.
2. Unnatural hair (colour; bright purple/blue).
3. Huge or deformed ears, making helmets uncomfortable.
4. Lazy eye, having no effect on vision but makes you look HERP DERP.
5. Bulging eyes, as if you are always on drugs.
6. Orcish teeth, with a slight speech impediment.
7. Toothless, with a slight speech impediment.
8. Warts on face.
9. Pockmarked skin.
10. Unnaturally pale and cold to the touch.
11. Spasms.
12. Involuntary drool.
13. Involuntary noises.
14. Really bad breath.
15. Nasty body odor.
16. Heavy breather.
17. Claw hands, not impacting your physical abilities.
18. Hunchback.
19. Facial tick.
20. Stutter.
Don't think of Int as being a reflection of his IQ. 3d6 doesn't produce a standard deviation that is anything close to real IQ scores, not at all when you just multiply the score by 10 like so many are inclined to do.
In my opinion, all that a low INT reflects is an inability to quickly pick up on new skills do to lack of interest or drive, perhaps due to a belief that you are good enough already. A low INT can therefor reflect arrogance.
It can simply reflect difficulty learning new skills, and nothing more. This doesn't mean that the character is slow witted. He may be wise and cunning. It just take him A LOT of repetitions to become skillful.
You can still play him smart.
Your first point is a good one, one 3d6 not accurately representing intelligence distribution in the real world population. I would just counter that it does apparently represent the population in the game world. Not everything has to be like it is in real life.
As to the rest, I point you to the following from the SRD: "Intelligence determines how well your character learns and reasons."
You forgot the "reasons" part. I don't think a low INT character can be really cunning. I also don't think they can be "played smart", if you care at all about roleplaying the character accurately (some don't). I don't think it is your intent, but your advice can be taken by some to mean: go ahead and dump your intelligence as low as you want with no consequences. That, in turn, can lead to some serious abuses by extreme optimizers/powergamers.
The lack of interest and drive part could apply to my teenage daughter, who is by no means unintelligent. Rather, the opposite: she is smart enough that she knows she can skate through school without making any significant effort and still get decent grades. She just doesn't care enough to put in the little bit of effort that would ensure she got the straight As she is easily capable of, and that will open doors for her in the future. Classic High Int, Low Wis, like a lot of teenagers.
"M-O-O-N, that spells moon."
I'm sorry that I am going back this far, but when reading through the messageboards and I see a reference to King's The Stand mini-series, I must acknowledge it. Thank you, Hu5tru, for reminding me of that low int. character haha :)
Well, I see where you are coming from; I just disagree. I'd go so far as to say I disagree with the SRD's inclusion of the word Reason.
There are draw backs to having a low INT -- fewer skill points. That is a big deal, especially in a game where skill points are so rare and precious anyway (I can't believe fighters have to choose between Jumping and Horsemanship).
I don't like to play with the assumption that low attributes mean weak characters. If there isn't anything scary happening, I let the guy in my game with the 8 strength climb ropes without rolling. I know he is weak, but he is also short and thin. It doesn't make sense to assume that ANYONE who lives outside adventuring should be so weak they can't climb or run or whatever else.
I think the way you are doing it is probably fine in your campaign, so long as you don't have folks with the strong urge to powergame and optimize. For them, it would be free license to abuse the system, which would create imbalances you would have to correct for, which is doable, but not a lot of fun or the most productive use of a DM's time, in my opinion.
I don't think low attributes makes for weak characters. It makes for flawed characters, which can be tremendously interesting and still quite powerful. They just need to learn ways of coping with their flaws or compensating for them, and realize that occasionally those flaws will bite them in the butt.
As for an 8 Strength, that represents a character that is significantly, but not critically weaker than the average human. Climbing ropes and stuff like that should be difficult for him, but not impossible. If he cares to overcome this flaw, he needs to invest in Climb skill ranks. Or more likely invest in spells like Levitate and Fly, since he is likely a caster.
How would you play a character with low int?
With my dice!
I'm sorry that I am going back this far, but when reading through the messageboards and I see a reference to King's The Stand mini-series, I must acknowledge it. Thank you, Hu5tru, for reminding me of that low int. character haha :)"M-O-O-N, that spells moon."
Actually, I read the book about a half dozen times in middle school. Tom, I think his name was, had incredibly low intelligence, but managed to survive completely on his own. It's not impossible for a character with low intelligence to learn to adapt, but, he could appear a mite "touched in the head."
Give him a task, he'll complete it, to the letter, coz he doesn't think well enough to compromise on anything.
Just the way I see it.
As for an 8 Strength, that represents a character that is significantly, but not critically weaker than the average human. Climbing ropes and stuff like that should be difficult for him, but not impossible.
I think people need to put in perspective what the mechanics decry about these abilities.
Would a character with a 12 STR be represented as 'very' strong? Or just 'slightly' stronger than normal?
Imho it's the later, and an 8 STR is simply the obverse position.
-James
Characters are on a completely different scale than the rest of the population, benefitting from (unless you use the old roll 3d6 in order method, which I'm not aware of anyone using) much more generous character creation rules, which make average for characters far higher than average for the general populace.
So a normal person with a 12 Str would be significantly stronger than the average person. I would say this would be a reasonably athletic young man, for example. Not the star of the local football team, but probably plays on it. As opposed to the 8 Str guy, who is not a 98-lb weakling, but is probably someone who doesn't do much athletically. Rather than the football team, he's more likely to be in the band.
A character with a 12 Strength would be no more than average amongst his peers, perhaps even a bit below average. He's still stronger than most people, just not within his elite fraternity.
The average is actually 10.5, so I see the bell curve progressing from slightly to significantly somewhere around the 8.5/12.5 area. If you prefer to think of it as slightly, I have no real problem with that.
The main problem I have with demanding a character with Int7 being an oaf is that it implies social drawbacks. On paper, the Int7 paladin and the Int20 paladin have the same bonus to Diplomacy. The int20 paladin gets more skills, but he is not any better at talking to people.
The main problem I have with demanding a character with Int7 being an oaf is that it implies social drawbacks. On paper, the Int7 paladin and the Int20 paladin have the same bonus to Diplomacy. The int20 paladin gets more skills, but he is not any better at talking to people.
I don't think it implies social drawbacks at all. You don't have to be smart to be charismatic at all. I could point to several real life politicians to exemplify this but won't since this isn't a political blog and I don't want the firestorm. Instead I'll let you fill in the blanks with your own personal "favorites".
To give another example, look at your classic American high school. Who is more popular/charismatic - the president of the chess club with the off the charts SAT scores or the captain of the cheerleaders struggling to maintain a C average while filling out a C cup rather easily?