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Organized Play Member. 643 posts (5,419 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 1 Organized Play character. 26 aliases.


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in book one, our current party is...
Half Elf Bard
Half Elf Wizard
Human Barbarian
Dwarf Cleric
Gnome Druid
Half Orc Ranger

We are running it as a round-robin, so the Bard will sit out book two as his player becomes GM, and we will be adding a Human Inquisitor in his place (as I get to play for two books :) )

Looks like our party will be a Blaster/Crowd Control Sorc, a Swashbuckler, and a Bard.

We are adding Background Skills to give more depth of skills.

We are using Hero Points to keep some situations from being too swingy.

Here's hoping :)

And thanks for all the input :D

We are getting ready to play a campaign (Iron Gods) and we only have three players. It's not desperately short, but short enough that it may be an issue.

What are some techniques you have used to 'give the party a hand'?

(Also, Blake, #4 is a good trick :) er... learning tool!)

Go after them in their Inn! :) You know they are coming back, so why not cut out the wait! :D

Also, someone said something about 'xp'? What is this thing you speak of? I have read of it in archaic manuals of games past, but, nowadays, you level when I say you level :) And loot from restock? Sure, they can have all the daggers and trail rations they can handle ;)

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Aye, good question ;) I am waiting for the PG for this one so I can make a world-appropriate character to submit :)

I could be convinced. :D

How do you feel about charactees that are known to each other, or even related?

Also, this is only one world of an infinite number. Even if *ALL* of the souls went to the Abyss, it's less than a drop in the bucket.

End of the world... So celebrate and enjoy with your friends and family. Not that it matters, you're all Good and will see each other in the Kingdom of Heaven.

But to draw a blade across an infant's throat? No, you can't come to the party up above.

Evil and insane.'re assuming the attacker will miss the raging Barbarian... I mean, it *can* happen...

How about Come and Get Me vs Parry and Riposte?

A swashbuckler attempts an attack, the Barb reacts with an AoO, gets blocked and stabbed at generating another AoO from the Barbarian which is parried, then riposte'd which generates another AoO... ad nauseum until the Swashbuckler runs out of panache...

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For a slightly different perspective:
Warhammer 40K. Not realistic in the slightest. Automatic weapons, artillery, radios and flight trump swords and sexy armor everytime.

And I still played a hell of a lot of 40K. A ridiculous amount. Because it is a FANTASY Game. Not even in the same zip code as reality.

But, when I explored Flames of War, I could not tolerate what I perceived as historical inaccuracies. M1 Garands that fired slower, but more accurately than the more commonplace Bolt Action weapons of the day (Enfield, Mauser...). Medium (.30cal) Machine Guns that OUTRANGED Heavy MGs (.50cal) At these simple, egregious, errors I stopped wanting to play the game at all. Why? Because it was made to reflect our history, and it (in my opinion) failed to do so on a fundamental level.

TL:DR, if it's fantasy, forget reality. If it's historicals, pray it aint too far off of your perceptions :)

Puna' is either a troll or excessively naïve. Either way, have fun in your games :)

If everyone is new, LESS is MORE. Directly limit this campaign to the CRB and APG. But always be ready to lift that limit when you and your group are ready to expand.

IMO the Biggest Deal in playing with new players is PLAYING. You are right to be wary of Option Paralysis. But not just for them, but you, too. Play simple, and get a good feel for the basics. Sorta like learning to drive in a parking lot so you get a feel for the clutch and steering (what, no clutch?) then to streets, then to freeways.

The most important rule to remember is Rule ZERO. You are the GM, the referee, the rest of the world. Your word is final and the players must know this. This is a HUGE responsibility. Be fair and hones with players, never take things personally (unless it truly is), let the players be rock stars, make consistent rulings (make notes on how something was adjudicated if you need reminders!). Or, to rephrase it: The players have to trust you with Rule ZERO. Earn that trust-it is the hallmark of a good GM.

House Rules? Yours will come in time, you will see what your table needs to do to make the game more enjoyable for everyone. (I do like the idea of a bonus Profession Skill point!)

Good luck and may the dice be ever in your favor... or is that a bit biased to hope that for a GM?

No submission yet, but I would like to put in a *interested* blurb!

I will figure out what I want to play and get back with a submission in the next 24 hours! :D

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Only one question that matters:

Are you having fun?

If yes: rock on.

If no: walk off.

If you said you already talked to the guy, and he refuses to play team-mate then there is a PLAYER issue at your table. Keep on if you dig the game *anyway*. Leave if you aren't having fun.

For builds, sorry, not interested in PvP. That's why they made WoW.

I have a whip wielding Ifrit Swashbuckler that is performing well in a Table Top Mummy's Mask :)

Yes, it is tough on the Intim'd subject. But that's the point. Please don't be a DM that gets upset with the player's success :)

Oh, and I still think the shaken but much tougher Barbarian can still go and take some revenge out of the pip-squeak's hide :D

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He is not scared of the PC. He is shaken by the PC's "Prowess". The (combat) intimidated Barbar is SHAKEN. Nothing more, nothing less. Now, how would a Barbar that has been shamed react? Face/Axe comes to mind. Use intim at your own peril.

In Non-Combat situations, Intim can force a NPC to behave 'Friendly' for a short time. However, after that all bets are off. Maybe the NPC has friends and does not like to be made a fool of. And, is keen on making an example of people that bully or insult him...

Again, use Intimidate at your own peril.

Not to egg you on, but dropping contradictory play styles is not always a bad plan. Talk about it with your group.

Think about what the PG's *do* bring to the table.

For example, could one of the PGs be a good GM?

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You are feeling pinched because you are a one trick pony. You need to open up your repertoire. If *you* do not, then *you* have accepted the (perceived) nerfing of your character.

Wraith makes the salient point:

Wraithstrike wrote:
Making a caster who only uses one type of spell, a person who refuses to use a ranged weapon, one who refuses to use a melee weapon, even for flavor reasons is generally a bad idea.

Wands of CLW do help to remove the onus of "Who wants to play the cleric?" No one. "Why should I? All they do is heal."

Even as a grognard that despises the Magic Mart aspects of 3.x/PF, I like that healing is more accessible and accessible to more characters (rangers, pallys, etc with a wand of CLW) Cheap 'between fights' healing leaves the door open for more players to play the character they want, not the duties the game assigns them.

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Skeletons that just won't die! hehe... some 10 HD Skellies with some kind of regen? In order to lay them to rest permanently you have to destroy the contract that their master brought them into slavery with.

Cool idea, no matter what direction you take it :)

Bustler got it in one. :)

Now, on the other hand, if the bad guy dies, he has *also* been interrupted in the 'keep from doing' sense ;)

He could. His to hit penalties would make his accuracy so poor the rogue will outperform him ;)

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Think of I this way: Each Exotic weapon has its own rules. They may doing better base damage (d10 v d8, when comparing Bastard Sword to Long Sword), they may do better crits (Falcata compared to Long Sword) or they may allow you to apply Weapon Finesse to a high threat two hander! But, at the end of the day, they *only* do what they say they do.

Otherwise we could make logical leaps like "Well, it says immune to Fire and Acid burns are a form of oxidation so clearly immunity to fire means acid too. And Electrical burns... so immune to electricity as well..."

Sear N. Rivers wrote:

He feels it's the same concept.

I feel he's wrong. The weapons do what their rule say they do. Not what he wants them to do.

More importantly if you (the DM) feel he's wrong, put your foot down and stop the shenanigans.

The bastard sword is a specific weapon, and is not applying a general rule.

1) The Bastard Sword is an Exotic One Handed weapon. It's exception is based on *how* you use it. ie, Martial Two Handed/Exotic One Handed.

2) The Elven Curve Blade is an Exotic Two Handed Weapon. It is (almost) never a one handed weapon.

3) Elves treat every weapon that has "Elven" in the name as if it were Martial, otherwise all other rules for the weapon apply. (If for example there was an Elven Bastard Sword then you would apply the Exotic benefit to any Elf that had it as a Martial Proficiency.)

* * *

You can also say, "Your argument doesn't hold water. I have already disallowed it. Discussion closed."

avr wrote:

The Monty Haul GM

Everything's easy. You have loot coming out your ears, no fight is ever dangerous - maybe the enemies are lightweights, maybe the rolls are fudged - and short of another PC enacting the Head of Vecna scam nothing bad can ever happen to your PC.

It may not sound too bad but it gets boring fast playing in this game IME.

One of the worst... I coulda stayed home

I kinda like this idea... :)

One note, if you are gunna dump to 9 in two stats... think about dumping to 8 in just one of them. Your penalty is -1 at 9 or 8, so why take two separate -1 penalties?

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For the Paladin. Sometimes the difficult thing is choosing a Hard Right. Calling X's loyalty to family what it is: An excuse to harbor evil in the hearth. For the sake of the Paladin's Honor (a key tenant of Iomadae, no?) he may have to forsake his own love (that is, MAKE A SACRIFICE!!!) to protect some greater morality.

If "A" Truly TRULY TRULY loves the Paladin they will always be there for them. "Your heart is breaking, and mine breaks with you, though you don't know it" kind of shtick. They may never 'ride into the sunset' they do remain devoted friends and that is a kind of love, too.

But, back to X. And the paladin. Everything X lives amongst is evil. Salvery, Devil Worship. That kind of exposure will adjust the sight picture for X. Suddenly, a vigourous torturing of a wayward/willful servant is seen as "Well, they deserved it for not following instructions." You see, LAW without Mercy or Justice can be too easily twisted into Evil. Especially when law can be written to be an avenue for Evil. "Slaves Can be tortured to Death as they have no lives, save what their Master provides." Sounds good, yeah?

And I am still VERY VERY confused as to how Hellknights are not LE through and through. "We model our lifestyles on Hell itself. But, trust us, we're good guys!"

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The Ultimate Archery Trick

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Because it is not cool when Joe rolls 18, 17, 17, 17, 17, 15 while Jim is stuck with 14, 13, 10, 8, 6, 5.

Players like to see that their PCs are *capable* and when you have huge differences in stats, between PCs, one of the players is gunna feel left out.

But, at the end of the day, it is personal preference except in the case of organized play. :) I didn't come to Point Buy until I got into DDO a few years back.

NAME: Eliza Strokoshka
RACE: Human
CLASS: Bard 4
Adventure: Empty Graves
LOCATION: kidnappers hideout
CATALYST: Lack of big hitters

the canoptic horror thing survived way too long because our DPRs weren't there to play. Our gunslinger did her best but d8+5 was not real effective against a 50+ hp mob with DR 5. Eventually it bludgeoned the bard unconcious and then tore out her liver!


Years ago I ran a campaign with a Fighter as the central figure. The rest of the party, a bard, a cleric and a fighter/rogue came along because the fighter was famous and needed the help. The plot revolved around the fighter chasing down her errant husband (he had been charmed and 'taken' :) ). It was fun and everyone liked the strong theme to the game.

Sidekickin' aint bad. Sidelining *is* bad. "No, it's the hero's turn, shut up and be the background!"

Not to press too heavily for Bard, but as recent converts, have you all checked out the PF Bard? Not the same animal as the 3.5 Bard :)


Gunslinger with or without the Musketeer archetype. Solid DPR, good HP, DEX is the Stat. Solid skills, too. Also, if Tech matters, I imagine the Gunslinger will really shine. Not just automatic weapons, but automatic LASERS!!! :D

Plus side: No tricks and shenanigans. Just simple.

(Alternatively, a Swashbuckler looking for that energy-sword ;) )

(Alternatively 2, a Swashbuckler with an Aldori Dueling Sword looking to dip Aldori Swordlords Prestige Class :) )

(Relevance of comparing Deflect Arrows to Crane Wing (pre-errata): Firearms in general and Gunslingers in particular.)

I ran a fight with a "Shadowbeast" that devoured light when it got close to a source. It cloaked itself in shadow and looked like an almost amorphous feline-ish black mist. There was one PC that had True Seeing so could see the creature simply-unless it was in the dark, where it liked to stay... when it came to each player's turn I would describe what they had seen during the previous action and let them run with it.

The Abandoned One's camouflage abilities could be run the same way: Keep track of who either made the save, or has been attacked by the beasty and each turn tell the players what they can see. Imply it's an illusion if you like.

Sounds like a complex encounter, but it could be a lot of fun, too! :D

If they were focused on making a submersible, you *could* allow them to make a series of wishes... I wish the ship could submerge and rise at the direciton of the helm; I wish the crew would not be harmed by the water while submerged; I wish the ship had propulsion while submerged.

For what it's worth, that'd be pretty cool and the Players would remember the campaign for the rest of their days :)

Wish Three however... The players have been warned that overburdening hte wish acan cause it to go astray or simply fail... let them wish.


Is your player asking if he can use INT for CHA based skills?

Giant Advanced Ant Lion?

Die, Mr Fett!

Hello all.

I am an *old* gamer (since '83!) and it is fair to say I cut my teeth on settings like Dragonlance. I still have the individual adventure modules and am (strangely) Jones'n to run them for my current group.

The Golden Opportunity is that Dragonlance is now seperated in time by a wide enough margin that the new players have NO IDEA who the characters are! No preconceptions of how Raistlin will act, what Flint would say or wht Tas will get into next.

How does this sound?

Campaign Introduction wrote:
It has been a long five years of hard travel around Ansalon but you are finally on your way home. The Inn of the Last Home calls to you, and the smell of Otik's famous spiced potatoes is already on your mind. The day your friends and family agreed to explore the lands seraching for news of the Old Gods is a distant memory, but the sense of purpose is still with you. The tragedy is that you found nothing. And you fear your companions had the same ill luck.

Significant NPCs will be tied to the party and some (few) background details will be guided to ensure the NPCs are tied in as well. (Laurana and Tanis anyone?)

Some of the details I need to work out. What clases are NOT available? No Gunslingers, Ninjas, Samurai or Summoners. Alchemists and Bards? Both can cast Cure spells so maybe they should be restricted too? (The darkness of no divine magic/healing is what made the Companion's Quest so EPIC!) Races? No Orcs so no half-orcs. No Gnomes and of course 'modified' Halflings

I am looking forward to digging into some PF resources that I am *sure* exist online :)

Sekhmet FTW!

There has been a lot of discussion about magic items, magic items crafting, wealth by level and etc.

I am very on the fence about it: on one hand I am old so I like 'organic' loot. That is, loot found in game, and damn be WBL. On the other hand, I like letting PCs control their equipment. You don't put a race car driver into a '77 pinto and expect him to win do you?

But how do you give both to the Players (and to you, too, as loot should be a 'temptation' for the PCs) Simply allowing them to make whatever they want is...blah. Especially if that becomes the reason for existing: "This session will be spent maximizing gold value and time schedules." Fun game? Nope. Lots of bored, er, board games cover that genre.

One solution I have used when making a higher level party: I start rolling random items, one at a time until the value of random loot is equal to or greater than half the WBL. The difference to WBL is given to the PC to use as they see fit. If they want to dump some of the random stuff, they can. At 50% of market value.

How could you apply that to in-game, story based progression? One option is to simply add an enhancement bonus or effect to existing items. This is easy with Armor, or Shields. "Your continuous use of the Sword of Whazzifuzzles has awakened a deeper magic! It is now +2!" Not so easy with spontaneously 'born' items, "Suddenly your gramma's old wedding ring you thought a mere trinket glows and you now have Resist Elements: Fire/10 as long as you wear it!"

Yeah, we do need some Benny Hill music! lol

lol Nope, just a hungry camel spider ;)

I like the 'draw it as a weapon' because it is a free action when incorporated into another move action, and a move action if not :)

Name: Kanika Panya
Race: Human
Class/Level: Cleric of Sekhmet 1
Adventure: Half Dead City?
Location: The Necropolis
Catlyst: Fumbles and ineffective tactics!

The General's Tomb

Gory Details:
Got safely down the entrance shaft and had made dust of the deadly toy dolls. Past the mirror (what does that thing do, anyway?) and into the worship room. Out come the giant camel spiders (Solifugae)... our Barbarian proceeds to nerf himself into senselessness; our rogue does no better so, the clerics have to do the work (we had two, one of Sekhmet and one of Ra). Unfortuantely one of the giant camel spiders hit, then crit, then rended the cleric of Sekhmet, she drops to -2 HP. Next round, the flippin camel spider coup des grace's the helpless cleric! (note: We use both Cirtical Hit Cards and Fumble Cards. In this fight our Barb dropped two fumbles (deafened himself by ringing his own bell and then shifted his sword grip so he could only do Non-Lethal damage...) and the Rogue bricked one, two, leaving her dazed for three rounds, apparently running into pillars will do that to you...) So instead of a quick fight, it stretched out and the dice caught up to us.

Juda de Kerioth wrote:

that´s why the Classes has diferent experience advancement in the old days from AD&D

there was 4 groups from where all the classes are attached

Rogue (Rogue, ninja, bard, assassin)
Priest (monk, cleric, druid)
Warrior (fighter, barbarian, paladin, ranger, samuray
Wizard (mage, illusionist, specialist and so)

rogue 1250
priest 1500
warrior 2000
wizard 2500


Unfortunately even this example of 'balance' is misleading. I don't have the reference in front of me (in fact the only 1st Ed book I still have is the DMG) but I know that it was tough to get a Wizard to Level 2, but *easy* to gain levels once you hit about 7th. That is to say, it was hard to level and hard to survive as a baby Wizzie, but you rocket past every other class at the time that the wizard really comes into his power levels. Although, Rogues never struggled with levels ;) They were always low cost :p

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