karkon's page

With the power level of P2e characters... how do I justify a world where mundane nobles/kings/aristocracies run the world/government and not level 20 warlords/wizards?

Because there are surely high level people who are invested in the current status quo. The PCs try to topple the king? Well, a high level group of patriotic NPC adventurers take on the group. Perhaps this patriotic group are already well known as "Defenders of the Kingdom" due to previous heroics.

Maybe the group is not patriotic but they worry that if the current king is toppled that it will lead to civil war or a huge orc invasion or whatever troubles exist.

Perhaps the Divine Right of Kings is actually a real thing in Golorian. Without the literal blessings of the heavens your attempt at taking the crown is doomed to failure as no one respects your right to rule. The gods themselves will fight against you.

A group of 5 PCs will have some real trouble holding on to a kingdom. You need an army of soldiers and bureaucrats to enforce your will throughout the land or parts of it will break off into their own fiefdoms.

Exploding the king with a spell does not just make you the king now. Those with a right to inherit already have armies and will probably not be shy about spending gold to hire other high level adventurers to help them seize the throne.

Back when I played Vampire the Masquerade there was a similar power to compel the truth. One player just talked around the question.

"Let me tell you a story" and then proceeds to tell a story that seems like it is answering the question but is in fact a complete fabrication. He would also give partial but truthful answers. "I heard about that diamond but WHEN I heard about it I said only a fool would try to steal it."

He would even prepare for that stuff by randomly saying innocent sounding phrases he could later reference. Once we were in the middle of a murder spree (vampire can get very dark) and he proclaimed "This DJ is playing awesome dance music. We stayed at this club all night." Then later he would reference it. "Look, I said before we stayed at this club all night because I said the DJ was playing awesome music.

Also the previous advice on talking your way around the questioner is useful. Attack them with questions. "Do you have any secrets you do not wish anyone here to know?" "Did you steal the diamond?" "How often do you make treasonous statements?" "Are you still carrying on an affair with the queen?" "Are you still worshipping demons?"

Kick the ranger out of the group and get a new good aligned ranger who happens to have the same stats.

Your DM was an idiot for allowing an evil character in a non-evil group.

Let the ranger player know that his evil guy is not working out and he needs to play nice with the rest of the group or find another game. Pathfinder is a social game not a competitive game.

If there is some crap about the evil player being the DMs girlfriend I don't care. Find a way to clean the mess up. Tell the DM he needs to run the game for everyone's benefit.

Karkon, though your advice is good, your example seems a little transparent.

If I made them less transparent I would need to spend several pages writing them. Also, you get to see the who the BBEG is from my example. The players don't get that and they tend to assume that people who help them must be on their side.

My goals when running an actual campaign like this are to provide all the information needed to discover the true villain but to present it one very small piece at a time. In a recent game I had the PCs chasing after about two dozen rare books and when they found a book I would give them a one page super abridged version. Often the clue that the BBEG was not really the BB and that another NPC was the BBEG was just the subject and the author.

Hard to really explain but by the time they had all 24 books one player had actually pieced 70% of it out but was not quite sure until I revealed the keystone piece of information.

It is funny how well it works. You just need one extra bad guy to distract the players attention while the real bad guy works in the background and just comes up once in a while. I tend to give the PCs a neutral patron who sends them on missions against the EG.

Getting the players to focus on on NPC is as easy as having the EG attack or steal something the PCs were assigned to protect. You are the PCs source of information so if you give them lots of information about the EG but little information about the BBEG they will focus on the EG. By the time the BBEG becomes a real threat the players should have received enough information to understand the threat.

Often they don't perceive the true threat until I hit them with the truth via an attack, or betrayal, or a sage NPC who gives them the final pieces they need to figure it out. I cherish this moments.

Karkon, though your advice is good, your example seems a little transparent.

If I made them less transparent I would need to spend several pages writing them. Also, you get to see the who the BBEG is from my example. The players don't get that and they tend to assume that people who help them must be on their side.

My goals when running an actual campaign like this are to provide all the information needed to discover the true villain but to present it one very small piece at a time. In a recent game I had the PCs chasing after about two dozen rare books and when they found a book I would give them a one page super abridged version. Often the clue that the BBEG was not really the BB and that another NPC was the BBEG was just the subject and the author.

Hard to really explain but by the time they had all 24 books one player had actually pieced 70% of it out but was not quite sure until I revealed the keystone piece of information.

It is funny how well it works. You just need one extra bad guy to distract the players attention while the real bad guy works in the background and just comes up once in a while. I tend to give the PCs a neutral patron who sends them on missions against the EG.

Getting the players to focus on on NPC is as easy as having the EG attack or steal something the PCs were assigned to protect. You are the PCs source of information so if you give them lots of information about the EG but little information about the BBEG they will focus on the EG. By the time the BBEG becomes a real threat the players should have received enough information to understand the threat.

Often they don't perceive the true threat until I hit them with the truth via an attack, or betrayal, or a sage NPC who gives them the final pieces they need to figure it out. I cherish this moments.

A successful manipulator will make things seem to be the other persons idea. People are more invested in their own ideas than those of others. Sales tactics are useful here. Don't push the sale lead the customer down a path that makes them feel that a purchase is as a result of their own choices.

The best evil characters I have run did not antagonize the players but actually assisted them in a time of need and then used that goodwill to get the PCs to do a small favor. Sometimes they set up the time of need.

e.g. Send trolls to attacks PCs. After the battle stumble upon them and provide healing and other magical support. Oh by the way I am fleeing from the castle of King Wodewick who stole the "Gem of Holiness" from my father. No, I could not ask you to help me. Wodewick is a powerful and wicked sorcerer. He would surely smite you. Well if you insist I have a few items that may assist you.

It is more helpful if he sends them against other evil enemies (for example if Wodewick is evil). The players will thrash Wodewick and return the Gem of Holiness.

Then the next step. Oh, Wodewick has corrupted the gem. I can purify it but I need a few things.

You can repeat as necessary. The player's faces when you reveal the true plan will be priceless.

This works best if there is a prominent bad guy (Wodewick) to distract the PCs from the real bad guy.

You can make the traps super obvious while still making them a challenge.

For example: If we take your room one with the hydra mouth pumping gas. Perhaps it continuously pumps gas unless turned off from a control area. That control area is held by a local orc tribe whose shaman realized that gas trap allowed them to flank enemies by strategically turning it off. So when the PCs see the room and pass it by they keep getting flanked by small groups of orcs.

Eventually they make it to the control room and use disable device to turn it off.

Maybe they don't pass it by and brave the gas to turn the trap off. They use some spells to buff the rogue and send him in. He disables the trap but takes some damage. However, the group gets to come in on the orcs by surprise as they don't guard that entrance.

What this accomplishes is to make it so they are not so paranoid about traps and waste time looking for new ones

Lets take your lightning sword trap. Turns out that some electricity resistant creatures have laired in this room and attack. Now change the trap to only hit two creatures at random in the room. Sometimes the PCs get hit and other times the monsters get hit for no damage. The rogue needs to disable the trap while the group holds off the beasties.

Or they lure the beasties out but brave the trap to get the obvious treasure in the opposite corner.

Traps that are always on are a great way to make a room or fight more interesting and keep the players from being in a "Check everything!" mode.

You don't even need to use them in dungeons. The BBEG (a demon perhaps) is faced in a final battle in his lair. The lair is wreathed in fire from a magical trap or spell. Now the party must spend additional resources to negate fire damage while defeating the bad guy.

Can I ask why you are house ruling a character to have so many classes? I have heard of gestalt (carrying two classes at once) but his seems to take it to a ridiculous level.

If you put in traps your players will look for traps and the paranoid trap finder response is fairly common. Back in 1st edition traps were so common and deadly that it was the normal way of things.

I think that a cumulative penalty is the wrong way to go about it.

The way I handle it is to have the players make ten perception checks in advance and write them on a sheet. We assume they are being moderately careful and when they approach a trap I use a pre-rolled check to see if they notice anything. I cross off that roll and tell them what they see.

By telling your players that you assume they will be moderately careful and at least looking out for unusual things you save on game time lost to paranoid trap finding. The pre-rolls let them still have a chance to notice traps when you feel it is appropriate.

A few alternate ideas:

1) You could have the players give you their perception and you roll when appropriate. If you do a lot of secret unexplained rolls this is actually nice. It also lets you roll when you just want to make them a little paranoid.

2) You could make the rogue Trap Spotter talent a feat. Sure, rogues already have it tough but it might help with your issue.

3) You could make a few traps more obvious but tougher to disarm. I have seen puzzles, knowledge checks, requiring certain spells, requiring disguising yourself to approach. You will need to telegraph this a bit. Maybe leave certain robes in a room before the trap that requires disguising yourself as a dwarven cleric.

4) Have a few traps that you can place anywhere. When your players get paranoid then stick the trap in after a high roll. They feel like they found a trap and relax or become even more paranoid.

Second, and not to the OP, i am confused by the use of word Bandaid for cleric, isent that refering to Bob geldorfs Band Aid and usually refering to help that looks more effektive than it is wile promoting the helper? A cleric is not really pressured in to that role i think. But i may be wrong here.

He is referring to a small adhesive bandage used to cover small cuts and scrapes (called a plaster in the UK I think). A brand name of those in the USA is Band-Aid. So by referring to the cleric as a Band-Aid he is saying other players expect him to be there to make their boo-boos feel betters and not to contribute in any real fashion.

Summoners in general are problems as many players and DMs do not fully understand how eidolons and evolutions work. Synthesist exacerbates those issues by allowing players to really go overboard.

Unless you are rock solid on understanding summoners I suggest you don't allow it. Otherwise you may be back her in a couple months posting "Help, I can't challenge my synthesist player".

Fomsie wrote:

Actually, I do like to have encounters where my players are greatly overpowered for the situation. I think it is a good thing for players to get the chance to flex their muscles and revel in their new found power once in a while, instead of always having to use new powers and abilities to struggle against progressively stronger foes, especially in a sandbox style game.

Glad to hear it!

I do it all the time. You don't hear players complaining about "the game is too easy" you only ever hear them complain when there is a challenge.

I remember back in early 3rd edition I was running my group through Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil and an early encounter is a blue dragon. Keep in mind they had been warned of this dragon and one play who discounted the warning nearly got eaten by it when he went off on his own to check.

The battle was meant to be difficult by design. One of my players gets upset that it is difficult and throws a bit of a fit. Usually I let that stuff slide but I had enough of that players antics. So i told him, " If you are not playing this game to have a challenge then why bother. Just go home and make up awesome adventures for your character in your head."

He never gave me grief again.

Fomsie wrote:

Marthkus wrote:

Remember when clerics healed party members because they wanted to save their lives and when party members were thankful for the clerics healing instead of entitled to it?

Well, that was back in the day before the game was played with spreadsheets.

If I recall the ancient tales correctly, weren't the 1E/2E rulebooks nearly 60% tables and spreadsheets?

As an actual teller of ancient tales I can tell you that tables were integral. I don't recall any spreadsheets as the number of options for your character were pretty low.

Lili wrote:

I've been having problems finding a group i'm not what what i should do. finding a group.

I use a website called meetup.com

And looked for gaming groups in my area.

My current pathfinder group was formed by creating a meet up to look for players. When we got 6 we shut the meet up down.

Play what you want. Make healbot someone else's problem. That is what I did after years of taking cleric for the good of the group. If no one takes cleric then eventually someone dies and becomes a cleric or another healing class.

What's a goldilocks encounter?

Ones designed for the characters level and classes. There is some danger but they can handle it.

Any world where PCs can go within a few months to level 10 or higher throws logic and reason in the fire IMO. Which is why I rate fun higher than either logic or even balance.

That is the reason I include long down periods between adventures.

I think it is important to set the expectation that encounters will not necessarily be balanced for the PCs. Thus the players will take the extra time to ask questions to get more information.

I love the concept and I love the idea that there is real danger in a world that could consume the PCs very easily.

If PCs are aware of these dangerous places like Castle Bloodskull they know to stay away from them. I like the idea of players needing to carefully enter a place instead of just kicking in the door.

SlimGauge has the nut of the problem though. Do the players/characters have the tools needed to evaluate threats. I could easily see a party kill the low level minions guarding the door and then quickly get over their head.

Another problem presents itself which is how do the players know if their characters are ready for something? It would get rather tiresome running out of various ominous locations because the threat is too high.

Re: Init

Rogues don't automatically get init. You don't even have Improved Init. You also don't appear to have Reactionary. You have +4-5 on your Init roll. That certainly doesn't guarantee that you go first....

He does not need improved initiative. The one level dip in diviner means he always goes in the surprise round. That is the diviner's special power. On top of that it gives him a +1 to initiative. at 4th level his Dex will be 20 and he will have +5 to Initiative which in many games is pretty damn good.

Wait I forgot his familiar, Compsognathus, guess what they do? Add +4 on initiative checks. Now he has +9 which is very good.

So no matter his perception roll he always acts in the surprise round and thanks to +9 he will probably get to go pretty early pretty often.

But even so most people get caught up in going first in a round. It only matters at the beginning of the fight because after that you can just delay to move your initiative. Oh I go last now? Well that means I go just before the guy who has the top initiative thanks to the circular order of initiative.

I was going to suggest a witch. If you do a hedge witch you can cover healing with spontaneous casting. The added bonus is that if the DM destroys your spell book a wizard would be screwed but the witch just gets a new one.

Add hexes to that and you are gonna be much happier.

To be clear the charge rules say, '"you must move to the closest space from which you can attack your opponent."

That means with a reach weapon like a lance you complete your charge from 5' away. With a weapon that lacks reach you just need to line up properly so that the closest space is along a line where you can continue your ride by.

Just to change to subject a bit I was thinking the advanced talent dispelling strike gives the rogue an interesting niche.

Sure you need to take minor and major magic traits but using your major magic to get protection from evil is gonna be useful the rogues whole adventuring life and having a few tricks up your sleeve from minor magic does not hurt (the scouting rogue who casts his own messages)

Then at 10th level take dispelling strike. Every time you sneak attack you have a chance to dispel something. By that level many enemies are depending on low level spells for protection. Attack a wizard and dispel his mage armor-- now he just got easier to attack.

I do Penguin Plotting all the time. My players are clever and often their ideas are better than mine so I include the great ideas into my game. They feel super smart and I look like an amazing DM.

The best ones are when they come up with an idea that I can mix with my current idea. Then they feel smart and I look even more brilliant when the full plan comes out.

11) Using a sound to set the location. e.g. a recording of seagulls and waves to set the scene for a beach or harbor.

I have found it to be very effective when used sparingly.

While Dream is a better fit I think that using sending as a base could make for cool dream material. You have a 25 word limit so perhaps the NPC's representation in the dream keeps repeating segments of the message. It is a great idea.

25 word limit, segments of the message, a great idea. You have a 25 word limit. Keeps repeating segments of the message. Perhaps the NPC's representation repeating a great idea.

If you are clever you could write the message so that rearranging certain phrases or short sentences creates a new message. If you feel you need an actual spell then just use Dream and use sending as the inspiration.

I make the character the lowest level in the party. He can be tied with another character.

A cumulative penalty seems harsh as a character's power level is a very important part of the PC. I would suggest a cumulative WBL penalty. Thus the reckless characters are punished but can still make challenge appropriate characters.

Most modules have pretty expansive terrain types. Mountains to deserts to jungles.

Golarion environments seem all over the place. In campaigns you go from tropical islands to jungles to deserts to jungles to mountains within silly distances.

That can be done in the real world in several locations (many in south america)

Argument A is the correct answer.

I add a little in here and there. Many players are uncomfortable with the dark side of life and so many groups shy away. I have never gone as dark as the auction you discuss.

However, if I were to do so I would give the players some inkling of the darkness to come rather than just springing it upon them.

I have used them at low levels but usually when I gave the party plenty of warning. Perhaps tales related by the experienced woodsman of the siren of the woods or a direct warning by a local sage that a dangerous harpy stalks the mountain nearby.

Thus the players prepare properly. They keep protection from evil ready which so many classes can cast. If they do it right when they sight the harpy then several characters will have absolute protection against the charm effects.

if the group feels like gambling they can wait to see who fails the save and then cast P from E to get the second save at +2.

A knowledge check could be prompted by the DM so that wizards or other classes who might have Know(nature) could get some hints of their powers.

Long story short is that a group at least one full caster should have a very useful spell to deal with the song both before or after it takes effect.

I just roll multiple d20s and multiple damage dice corresponding to the number of minions. So six minions wielding longswords means 6d20 and 6d8.

Based on where the dice fall I assign them left to right to the minions left to right on the board.

Fast & simple.

By 12th level the Phantom Steed can air walk and two levels later it is flying. I think that is about as cool. And by those levels when the mount inevitably dies you just summon a new one.

Why bother with a real animal. Use the assorted mount summoning spells. They last hours per level.

Mount is 1st level and lasts 2 hours per level.

By the time you get bored of that Phantom Steed comes along.

Get Combat Casting and Uncanny Concentration like Remy suggested and you are always ready to go.

I would say you should stick with Mount because 1st level spells are easy to blow for a sorcerer as time goes on and when the horse dies you summon a new one. Bingo Bango Mounto Summono

I actually run a pretty tightly 'railed' game but have been criticized now and then by other GMs. I find the idea of a 'sandbox' game impossible unless you completely flesh out an entire region before play or can somehow make up a consistent, detailed and in depth world from scratch on the fly.

If your players are having fun with the tightly railed game then tell the other GMs to sit on a ten foot pole. Different groups have different play styles.

I run a sandboxy game with some rails at the beginning to give them some momentum in the right location. Sandboxy games don't have to mean the whole world is the sandbox it can just mean that maybe one city is the sandbox or one forest. Perhaps they are given a mission and this gives them some momentum when they are uncertain about what to do.

One trick I have deals with using miniatures and map for combat. If the players come upon a location (perhaps a room or small home) and they suspect that there might be an enemy or even a BBEG I like to start setting up the room while they discuss. At some point I nonchalantly put in a very menacing figure along with any other figures that go in that location.

Each game usually has one guy who knows all the monsters and he casually suggests some defense related to the monster while making no obvious note of the mini I put out.

Finally, when a PC actually looks in the door I will remove the menacing figure entirely or replace it with the actual baddie.

Just gonna throw this out. Assuming you have at least 11 in Cha maybe a dip into Oracle of Metal might be worthwhile.

They have three revelations that might be very useful. One of the big problems for battle clerics is mobility. Barbarians still move at 30 in armor and by 5th level the fighter can run around in plate mail at full speed. So often the fight is mostly over by the time you are closing.

1) Armor mastery lets you move at full speed in medium armor made of metal (so most of them)
2) Dance of Blades gives you 10 feet of extra movement

So if you spend a 1st level feat you are running at 40 in a Breastplate. If you buy mithril heavy armor you can run around at full speed still.

Oh but you need the heavy armor proficiency. Well use a feat and take Extra Revelation to take Skill at Arms giving you all martial weapons and heavy armor.

Assuming you are human then at 1st level using your two feats on Extra Revelation gets you all this.

So now you have all the proficiencies you need and you are faster than a barbarian wearing the same armor. If you wish to take a second level of oracle you can get the Metal Oracle bonus spell Lead Blades which is tough to get outside of being a ranger.

Sometimes the players just get luck and you have to accept that. I like to open up fights with medium level enemies (easy but not too easy). Once a few have been wiped out then the boss comes out with a lieutenant or two.

I am a big fan of having opponents run away when the battle is obviously lost. They go on to notify as many other allies as they can. This give the enemy time to prepare. It also gives an excuse when a big boss knows their tactics. Especially when they see a couple of the guys that ran away.

Don't be afraid to have powerful enemies attempt to flee and then pop up in a later fight with a little more power. The players hate that and they will seek to put and end to that guy first the next time they see him.

Overthrowing a government is difficult at best. Historical examples show that it takes a lot for people to decide upon rebellion. At its heart people have to believe that the rule of law no longer stands and that they could do something about it. Short of some luck where an economic depression, military defeat, or some natural event causes discontent on a large scale taking over a nation takes planning, a ton of cash, and time measured in decades.

To give solid advice I need more information on the set up.

Plan ahead in case your players do try to assassinate this guy and happen to succeed. Give him several sons spread around Taldor and the Inner Sea. The archduke is a prolific writer of letters to his sons keeping them up to date on events, problems, and potential threats. Perhaps the PCs accidentally intercept one of these letters while trying to stop a vassal.

In this way if they kill the archduke then his son's are not only up to speed but spread out enough that they are very difficult to kill all at once. Retribution will be swift.

I read that 10 times. How did I miss the melee conditional?

Thanks for shooting it down. Well, that still leaves a whole bunch of options.

So the Oracle of Metal can take the following revelation:

Iron Weapon (Su): You can create a melee simple or martial weapon that lasts for 1 minute for every oracle level you possess. This weapon is appropriate for your size and entirely made of metal (even if it would normally include non-metal parts, such as a spear's shaft) but functions as if it were a normal weapon of its type. You are considered proficient with this weapon. The weapon disappears after 1 round if it leaves your grasp. At 3rd level, the blade is made of cold iron. At 7th level, 15th level, and 19th level, the blade gains a +1 enhancement bonus. At 11th level, the blade is made of adamantine. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier.

I like the idea of summoning weapons as needed so I have been trying to think of clever uses. The obvious ones like reach weapons, or using the special properties of certain weapons spring to mind.

So could my oracle summon a composite strength bow of any rating I desire? I believe so but I am not certain.

A little tricksy but could I also choose to summon a spiked shield?

What other clever uses might be hiding in this ability?

There are a limited number of characters and they have a limited number places and people they can hide things. Their patron starts hiring people to check into various leads. Maybe a break in occurs at another PCs home or family home. Maybe his parents are roughed up. They go to investigate and then another PC's family ( or affiliated group) gets hit. Eventually they check out the people the noble PC knows and find out from a servant that the PCs were there shortly after their return.

So now the patron hires some mercenary to break in and steal X because he assumes it is there.

The question is how would the patron proceed on this? Which PCs have resources to hide the stone. Does he have to send out people to investigate first? Maybe he also sends a group to follow the PCs.

karkon wrote:

This is why I ban CN from my games it is used as a poor man's CE to justify all sorts of acts that would not be tolerated from other characters.

Why wouldn't just someone play a different alignment, and then act the same?

Banning CN is one of the silliest things I have heard.

It solves absolutely nothing, and serves no purpose.

Dick players will continue to be dick players.

You might as well ban the color purple.

In my experience it has worked. Stripped of the legitimacy of claiming CN they actually adjust their behavior. It may not work in your game but that may be down to play style.

This is why I ban CN from my games it is used as a poor man's CE to justify all sorts of acts that would not be tolerated from other characters.

I am fine with PCs resting in a dungeon. I ask what preparations they have made and how they will set guards and then make a decision from there how the remaining occupants react.

Depending on the dungeon that can be a nearly suicidal act or very safe or just a tough night. It also depends on the number of survivors of PC attacks.

Not every dungeon will react quickly. Disorganized dungeons populated by competing groups may think it is some sort of trap and be very slow in sending in a large force. They may not even have contact with a particular faction until a small group of survivors comes running that some adventurers wiped out their tribe. Even then they may be reluctant to face these obviously competent people and just try to shore up their own defenses.

In dungeons run by a strong central power and that are well organized counter attacks may start as soon as one guy escapes a battle. (Which sort of seems to have happened in your case). Depending on the organization they might harass the PCs throughout the day with constant attacks and send competent groups to attack in the night after the PCs think they are safe.

TL;DR: Depending on the organization of the dungeon and the relationships between the different factions resting in the dungeon can be easy or not.

he also took scion of humanity

allowing him to take human feats, and its not actually a paladin he just calls it that.

I don't see that on the character sheet.

and dragon style allows him to charge over terrain

The horse does not have the required 3 ranks of acrobatics to take the Dragon Style feat.

Fighter

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuXhcwzKI0yCdE1KcXJEWmFvbGtTQk lZdmdtWjZzaWc#gid=0

Oracle
http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=466919

Horse
http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=571004

Your oracle took the Huntmaster feat which is only for humans and she is an assimar. I am not seeing any feats that would make her mount a level 8 reincarnated paladin.

so im running the shattered star ap and im having a problem with 3 of my Pc's trivializing every encounter. i got a sorcerer that is full into CC spells, a nature oracle that went for the mount and got feats to make it a lvl 8 celestial horse with dragon style (they are lvl 5) and then a fighter with mounted combat. what effectively happens is the sorc casts web making a giant area of difficult terrain and then the fighter riding the horse charge in, the fighter does minimum 70 damage and the horse deals minimum 18 on that charge. then if anything actually survives that, the horse does 5 attacks the next round dealing at least 12-15 damage with each hit and the fighter deals at least 20 with two attacks. at this point i don't know what to throw at them that isn't an auto kill or that they wont steam roll it is stupid to have a horse just charge though dungeons ignoring terrain.

There are no feats that will let your mount be a higher level than you are. So be sure to check that out.

The fighter's horse is basically 1st level and will soon become a non-issue as enemies start to one shot it and end his mounted combat fun.

If they are charging into a Webbed area then the Web spell affects them and their mounts. Also, web itself provides cover for those inside the area of effect.

It feels like you are not quite up to speed on the game mechanics so I would recommend that you take the time to carefully audit your players PC feats and to carefully read the spells your sorcerer is using.