Hi everyone. I needed to gather you all here to talk about my problems with absence.
I'm really sorry that this has become such a problem. I'm even more sorry that it looks like it's going to continue. I'm getting work calls almost every day. Work surely must slow down some time, but it's showing no signs of doing so any time soon.
It's frustrating. The two PbPs I'm running right now are hands down the two best games I've ever run, and that's almost entirely due to you, my players. Every single one of the characters you've all made are awesome.
But it's not fair to you all for me to keep promising more frequent updates, and then not deliver.
Having said all that, I now have to run out the door for work (again), but I needed to get this discussion started. Three games is definitely too much.
Again, I'm really sorry about all this. I know it sucks for you guys, but let's talk about solutions. I want you all to play in fun games. I want you to play in *my* games, but I don't know how feasible that is right now.
I have some ideas I'll post when I get home, but now I must away...
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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I'm here.
Happy to hear that you are getting work. I know what life is like as a freelancer. As a part-time prof, I take the hours I'm given. Last July I was working 75 hour weeks followed by 5 hour weeks in August.
I'm interested in seeing our game continue.
Ideas anyone?
My 500th post. Woohoo.
Quick phone post to say:
I am not officially dropping *any* of my games yet, though that may wind up happening.
I do have a couple of ideas of my own, some that even involve me continuing to run the two games I am running, but I had to get the discussion started this morning before work. My players are unhappy, and I want to change that.
Sean,
I'm not sure I can contribute much in the way of ideas here. But, if you're stretched too thinly (whether with the number of games or real-life work), then you need to reassess your ability to continue the game(s). I'm caught between wanting the game to continue (because I enjoy rp'ing my character and interacting with the other PC's and NPC's) and actually wanting the game to end (because the quality will suffer too much without frequent GM involvement and it will only become a source of frustration to linger in that situation). Does that make sense?
I've done a lot of surfing into the other games on Paizo's boards, just to see how they're implemented. I noticed that some GM's maintain the "speed" of their games by assigning substitute posters (usually another player, but sometimes the GM himself) when another player can't post for a long time due to real-life absence. Now, obviously, that's a lot different than this situation, because you're not simply an absent player...you're the GM. But, perhaps a variation of what Wicht is suggesting might work? He, Tarren Dei, and others are also GM's here on Paizo's boards, too. So, maybe if the pace slows down...and they've got access to the RotR AP...they can step in to move the game along if you're gone for awhile. You could also reach out to an external GM, if you wanted...say, JSL, Aubrey, Radavel, etc...basically any of the other GM's here who are also running RotR.
I don't know how long that would continue to interest everyone, though. Every GM runs a game according to his or her own style...and tweaks the NPCs and the adventure in different ways. So a temporary fill-in GM could have either a positive or negative effect, depending on how much they chose to deviate from the AP as written.
Failing some kind of arrangement along those lines, I don't see how the games can go on. Overall, I think you need to choose where to spend your time. Starting a new game (like the Pharoahs game), probably isn't a good idea if you're having trouble keeping up with the other two. Involving yourself in so many of the Alpha Rules Playtest discussions is also time away from moving the games along. And then, you'll have to assess whatever real-life situations are bogging you down. As always, real-life takes precedence. But, since you've involved yourself in other forums here, it would seem you do have some time left over occasionally. Maybe not enough to post everyday. But certainly more than once a week, perhaps? Or, at our current pace, once every 3+ weeks.
So, to recap...I think the priorities you probably ought to pursue, in order would be:
1) Take care of real-life stuff first. Always.
2) Then, determine your free-time capacity that's left over.
3) See if that matches the level of commitment and involvement necessary to run your PbP games.
4) Cut out anything new so you can honor the commitments you made to your longest-running and most entertaining games (i.e., that probably means drop the Pharoahs game and avoid the Alpha playtest discussions as much as you can).
5) If you continue to struggle with the pace of your remaining games, consider the alternate-GM idea...pare them down again...or totally hand it off to another GM willing to continue with the existing players.
My two-cents,
--Neil
Hi Sean,
Thanks for starting this thread.
I agree 100% with Neil's suggestions, and especially with his very constructive recap.
Wishing you all the best...
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I know that I'm not involved with any of the PBPs in question but I felt that I needed to offer some advice and/or assistance.
I was part of a group of players in Gobbowizard's Savage Tide campaign, and he just up and disappeared from the boards. We were stuck with no DM and no options so we floated the idea that one of us take over as DM....MWBeeler stepped up and now we have a great game going. I was the other one that was thinking of stepping up.
You have some great people here and, if necessary, I am sure that they would handle the reigns well.
If that doesn't seem like a decent option you could hand off one of the preprinted path games off to someone trustworthy until you come back, as long as they aren't also stretched thin.
I would offer to run a game for a while but I am player in 4 now, running 1, I have a face-to-face once a week, and I do a modified Blood Bowl league game every other week. I'm a bit too busy to handle it right now.
What are the games you are running currently? Maybe if I am familiar with the path I could help....
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I have watched this today and wish I could help, especially because I know what good players (and mates) Actaris and Twiceborn are.
But like Fake Healer I am tapped out, playing and DMing. I also agree that you could find one of you to run a game.
It isn't that hard, but it does require regular effort. Knowing the rules isn't the issue because most of the players on the boards will help and want to see a good game. This could be an ideal opportunity for one of you to step forward. I know, as a player, I'd be grateful if no alternative could be found.
Good Luck to all the gamers involved.
Cheers
Still alive and interested.
As Camris has pointed out more than once the Bloodsworn/Pharoahs game was doomed, so don't be a martyr. Keep the running games running if you can. Pat left, and Guy's in another PBP I think, so that just leaves Camris and I from that game. Tarren's starting an alpha playtest pbp and if there's still room we could get in there.
Hopefully we're still all around and can try something in the near future (there's always Beta testing!!) If I had Dm'd a 3.5 game I'd think about it but I haven't, let alone a PBP (I'm doing a local alpha test with STAP as my first DMing in 15 yrs, after that gets rolling, who knows? As I've already been infected with that most virulent strain of rpg mania the Pathfinder AP it's all a downhill slide from here-into a 10x10 spiked pit)
I enjoy spending 15-20 minutes every night reading the game updates and posting for my character. I can understand that life can occasionally interfere and make posting for a day or two impossible. In all honesty, I can't really fathom that being the case for weeks on end. If you're looking for time management advice, I'd suggest that checking in every day rather than saving up for one huge update would keep the game flowing and make running it less daunting.
Sean, I wouldn't presume to tell you how to set your priorities, and if you feel you can handle multiple games and want to contribute to the alpha threads, that's certainly your choice. What I would ask is that you make an honest evaluation of your time and inform the players what frequency of updates they can expect. Long unexpected delays are frustrating, and it is compounded by promises to post that only lead to further delays. That's happened several times.
Although I also suggested it in the AoW thread, I'm a little skeptical of the alternate DM route. A public recruitment effort that could see post quality suffer or yield an alternate with similar bouts of absenteeism. Especially since they would generally be a non-participant in the game.
That said, I've been really impressed with the frequency and quality of several players in the RotR game. If one of them is willing to step in as an alternate DM for our game, I would be all for it. They could also assume control of Dalzig (gnome priest of Wee Jas) as either a PC or NPC if they wanted since it's pretty clear that his player has abandoned.
Other than that, I would say that, more so than a discussion, what's required here is a decision from you as to what you can and want to commit to. I personally want to keep playing, but only if this issue can be resolved.
Rend... apparently you posted last, but for some reason, I can't see your post... would you be so kind as to re-post?
Thanks!
I enjoy spending 15-20 minutes every night reading the game updates and posting for my character. I can understand that life can occasionally interfere and make posting for a day or two impossible. In all honesty, I can't really fathom that being the case for weeks on end. If you're looking for time management advice, I'd suggest that checking in every day rather than saving up for one huge update would keep the game flowing and make running it less daunting.
Sean, I wouldn't presume to tell you how to set your priorities, and if you feel you can handle multiple games and want to contribute to the alpha threads, that's certainly your choice. What I would ask is that you make an honest evaluation of your time and inform the players what frequency of updates they can expect. Long unexpected delays are frustrating, and it is compounded by promises to post that only lead to further delays. That's happened several times.
Although I also suggested it in the AoW thread, I'm a little skeptical of the alternate DM route. A public recruitment effort that could see post quality suffer or yield an alternate with similar bouts of absenteeism. Especially since they would generally be a non-participant in the game.
That said, I've been really impressed with the frequency and quality of several players in the RotR game. If one of them is willing to step in as an alternate DM for our game, I would be all for it. They could also assume control of Dalzig (gnome priest of Wee Jas) as either a PC or NPC if they wanted since it's pretty clear that his player has abandoned.
Other than that, I would say that, more so than a discussion, what's required here is a decision from you as to what you can and want to commit to. I personally want to keep playing, but only if this issue can be resolved.
I'm just quoting the above so TwiceBorn might see it (although it'll probably pop up for him to see anyway).
I think people above me has said it quite eloquently and if the Pharao game would be the first casualty I wouldn't hold it against you. I know how hard it can be to balance everything.
We're all adults here, so if a game has to be dropped because of real-life issues I'm sure no one would mope about it (mock-mope out the wazoo with appropriate amounts of wailing and gnashing of teeth certainly, but that's different).
I don't want to touch on too much personal stuff so I'll just say that if real-life stuff of any kind gets in the way, that comes first (echo... echo...).
Rend... apparently you posted last, but for some reason, I can't see your post... would you be so kind as to re-post?
Thanks!
I lost a post earlier which may be the one you're missing. Anyway, here's the one that I actually managed to submit:
I enjoy spending 15-20 minutes every night reading the game updates and posting for my character. I can understand that life can occasionally interfere and make posting for a day or two impossible. In all honesty, I can't really fathom that being the case for weeks on end. If you're looking for time management advice, I'd suggest that checking in every day rather than saving up for one huge update would keep the game flowing and make running it less daunting.
Sean, I wouldn't presume to tell you how to set your priorities, and if you feel you can handle multiple games and want to contribute to the alpha threads, that's certainly your choice. What I would ask is that you make an honest evaluation of your time and inform the players what frequency of updates they can expect. Long unexpected delays are frustrating, and it is compounded by promises to post that only lead to further delays. That's happened several times.
Although I also suggested it in the AoW thread, I'm a little skeptical of the alternate DM route. A public recruitment effort that could see post quality suffer or yield an alternate with similar bouts of absenteeism. Especially since they would generally be a non-participant in the game.
That said, I've been really impressed with the frequency and quality of several players in the RotR game. If one of them is willing to step in as an alternate DM for our game, I would be all for it. They could also assume control of Dalzig (gnome priest of Wee Jas) as either a PC or NPC if they wanted since it's pretty clear that his player has abandoned.
Other than that, I would say that, more so than a discussion, what's required here is a decision from you as to what you can and want to commit to. I personally want to keep playing, but only if this issue can be resolved.
Rend... apparently you posted last, but for some reason, I can't see your post... would you be so kind as to re-post?
Thanks!
Nevermind, Rend, your post finally materialized...
That said, I've been really impressed with the frequency and quality of several players in the RotR game. If one of them is willing to step in as an alternate DM for our game, I would be all for it.
The most frequent posters from the RotR game are probably me, Wicht, Tarren Dei...and maybe Ross. Wicht, Tarren, and Ross are already running other games...but may or may not have access to the AoW AP. I don't...and I believe Wicht indicated he doesn't either. So we wouldn't make for very good DMs in that case. Tarren and Ross only recently started DMing PbPs here at Paizo, so maybe they can assist?
Does anyone from the AoW game have the time, materials, and interest to pick up and run the RotR game during Sean's absence? It might be interesting if all the combined players can pitch-in and help both games continue...
--Neil
I actually have 1 copy of AoW, (Dungeon 124, the first installment) but that's hardly enough to run a campaign. :)
Is that the issue with the first adventure? At the pace we're going, that's probably sufficient for now. I'm sure we can get you a copy of the second adventure if we get that far.
I don't have the resources to DM RotR and have never actually run a PbP game, so Arctaris or TwiceBorn would probably be a better choice. I'll consider it more seriously if that's the only option.
Of course, these are both still Sean's games and an alternate DM is only a Plan B imo.
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I actually have 1 copy of AoW, (Dungeon 124, the first installment) but that's hardly enough to run a campaign. :)Is that the issue with the first adventure? At the pace we're going, that's probably sufficient for now. I'm sure we can get you a copy of the second adventure if we get that far.
Yeah, that's the one. I'll have to read your game thread and see what has happened so far.
Looking through my backlog of Dungeon magazines, apparently I've got bits and pieces of the Age of Worms, after all. I've got "The Whispering Cairn" (adventure 1) with the Diamond Lake backdrop as well as "The Three Faces of Evil" (adventure 2). After that, I'm missing adventures 3 and 4...but pick up again with "The Champion's Belt" (adventure 5) and the Free City backdrop. And I've got some of the higher-level issues, including the finale. So, maybe I'm better positioned to help out than I thought.
The drawback, however, is that I've never run a PbP here at Paizo before. I've done so on other sites in the past...and via PbEM. But bottom line, I guess, would be that I could "put my money where my mouth is..." by helping out, if necessary. Again, though, I agree that these are still Sean's games...and it's his call on deciding if he needs such help.
--Neil
I will chime in with thoughts this evening, when I am at my computer.
If possible, I'd like the games to remain Sean's, as well. After all, he started them, and he is a very good DM.
And while I do have both Rise of the Runelords and the entire AoW adventure path, and have on several occasions dreamed of starting my own PbP, I must confess that it would be pretty irresponsible for me to do so at this point in time. I'm currently playing in 4 PbPs, my work load is increasing exponentially these days (and will continue to do so, since it appears that I have a strong chance of filling in the Director's shoes at the agency where I work while the current Director goes on mat leave for a year), I've got home renovation projects on the go... and last, but certainly not least, I have a girlfriend whom I care dearly about! So I don't think I would have the time or energy to fill the DM's shoes at this moment, and for me to accept to do so would only result in disappointed players, a ragged DM (and possibly a less-than-happy girlfriend)...
Camris, as I believe the Pharoah's game to be dead, you may want to check here before this one fills up Tarren's PBP
Sean,
I hate to add to an already stressful situation, but I'm afraid that if I'm going to continue playing in this game, this issue needs to be resolved sooner rather than later.
I only want to play in one PbP. Which means that I am not currently playing in any, and I would like to. I've held back on trying to find or organize another game because I really want yours to continue. But at some point I'm going to have to cut my losses and look elsewhere.
I'll wait it out until Tuesday. Hopefully you'll have some time over the weekend to share your thoughts and decide how you want to proceed. If nothing has been resolved by then, I'm going to start looking for another game. And once I find one, I will have to regretfully resign from yours. I'm really sorry about imposing a pseudo-deadline since I would prefer to keep real world terms like that separate from my hobby, but I thought it would be better to give you some advance notice rather than announce next week that I'm out. In any case, I feel like several of your players are close to the boiling point, regardless of what I do.
I'm still hopeful that things can be worked out. It seems like everyone wants it to. But the ball is in your court. Please advise.
Regrettably, I'll use Rend's pseudo-deadline as my own, as well. But, I remain cautiously optimistic that things can be worked out before then, as I also really want our game to continue. And, realistically speaking, perhaps we'll need to limit ourselves to completing "The Whispering Cairn" if we do carry on. Once we make it through that, we can decide if there's enough interest/commitment to pursue the next adventure in the AP... and let's face it, doing the entire AP in PbP format could take us a whole decade to complete, and I don't think we'll ever accomplish that (although it would be cool if we did)!
I will chime in with thoughts this evening, when I am at my computer.Sean, I must admit that it is disheartening to have constant future promises (even here in the discussion of your games) not kept. For myself, I would prefer no promises that you cannot keep.
I'm going to have to echo this sentiment.
I'm all for being as understanding and patient as possible...hence, my participation in this combined discussion thread. But two evenings have now passed since Sean commited to chiming in with his thoughts...and there's been ample time, support, and ideas already shared here.
Even if he does get back to us before Tuesday, I just don't see very good things on the horizon for any of these games. And it's doubly disappointing to see another commitment unmet here in the thread that was supposed to help foster a solution to continuing them in the first place.
*sigh*
--Neil
Well, I went away for a week and the whole (gaming) world changed. For the better; yeah! Then I find out that my work had blocked the Paizo Website. I was resigned to the fact that I would have to bow out of all my PbP games; however, due to some advice from Fake Healer, I may be able to continue to play. As far as this discussion goes, I cannot add anything that has not already been said. I add my heartfelt hope that the game will continue and apologize again for being a slow poster myself.
As someone with a good deal of absences lately coupled with the frustration of not being able to update our games, I sympathize completely. Games shouldn’t feel like work, so do what is best for you as a person. As an alternate, you could always take on a co-DM as a backup and share your plot ideas (hmmm, that’s not a half-bad idea; my games would be updated like crazy that way…). I will say this though, it has been a lot of fun having you in the game, and we’d mourn your absence (and the likely subsequent “crushed into paste” scenario).
I'd love to see the AoW game continue, but only if we can maintain a better pace. It screw up continuity and makes staying in the character's mind set when we go long periods of time without a DM update and therefore, story advancement.
Unfortunately I don't have any ideas for a solution, although having an alternate DM might work.
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Camris, as I believe the Pharoah's game to be dead, you may want to check here before this one fills up Tarren's PBP
Looks like I might have an opening for a player or two here
Yeah.
Due to a confluence of work, personal and health reasons, I'm afraid all games are now indefinitely suspended. Which really means they are over, I think.
I'm sorry. You guys have every right to be mad at me for both the constant broken promises and the abrupt end. It's okay, I understand. I'd be upset too.
I really liked all the characters in all my games, and liked how the play was going. I think you're all great roleplayers, and the has been some of the best gaming I've ever played. I was really looking forward to where each of these campaigns was going.
I've got nothing else to offer, except my sincere apologies.
Please, everybody take care, be well, and good gaming. Each and every one of you brings a superior level of play to any game you play in. There's no hard feelings on my part, and I accept and understand if that's not necessarily the case in return.
I'm not leaving the boards or anything, but I doubt I'll be posting very much for a while.
Sorry gang. I'm really sorry.
I agree with Wicht. There's no anger, just a sense of relief. This essentially releases us from the stress of not knowing, you know? I loved the game while it lasted. It helped me meet several new people on the boards. And I wish you well in whatever you're pursuing.
Sincerely,
--Neil
I don’t think there will be any hard feelings, especially in light of your candor about the situation. You will be missed though, so don’t be a stranger!
Sean, thanks for running the game as long as you did. I think you're a great DM and I had a lot of fun while it lasted. I'm also convinced you always had good intentions in terms of commitment to your players. Truthfully, I'm disappointed that the game is ending prematurely, but I suppose that's a reality of PbP. Best of luck with everything in the future.
Jon
Actually Canadian, but a night owl, especially after an 11 pm hockey game!
I'll take a look at the thread. I haven't really decided where to look for a new game. Wicht also mentioned he's looking for players. To be honest, I'm holding out some hope that the Age of Worms game can continue with a new DM. I don't read the APs before I play them and am reluctant to start a new arc when I feel like this one is just getting started.
Thanks for the praise btw. I don't really think I'm a great writer like some of the others on this thread. I try to post frequently and do my best to add some flavoUr to the game :)
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I hope you get your DM because it is a good game. I read both the discussion and main game threads last night trying to convince myself I could run it but there are some issues;
For
1) The Age of Worms part one and two are very good adventures.
2) Great group
Against
1) Set up would require considerable effort, because Sean set it in a homebrew and a DM would have to gen up on the scenario. Then Diamond Lake would need to be populated with fun and games so that it isn't always a dungeon hack.
2) You only really have three consistent players now. You need a couple more.
3) Sean's way of running things involves maps and some very good descriptive text. That is hard for most of us to replicate, especially a technophobe like me.
4) Then for myself and most of the other DM's we have games to run, and play. And we have to fit in Real Life so that the balance is fair on our families. For myself I am DMing two games already and playing in six. In the next six months I will probably have to start reducing that so that I can look after a very active growing baby boy more and more.
Cheers
To be honest, I'm holding out some hope that the Age of Worms game can continue with a new DM. I don't read the APs before I play them and am reluctant to start a new arc when I feel like this one is just getting started.
In hindsight, though... how far would you expect to get in this current arc? I think finishing the Whispering Cairn might be possible... but the whole AoW? Unlikely, unless the next DM made major modifications to the plot and the scenarios, or the group was exceptionally dedicated and somehow able to keep playing over a period of years. If we do find a substitute DM, I'm still in...
Mothman also has another Whispering Cairn PbP happening, which is still in it's early phases... don't know if he could make room for you there, but it seems to me that if Rend returned to town, he might be able to join with that party... You would only need to make some relatively minor background changes.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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Hi Sean,
No, there's no hard feelings. I enjoyed the game and it helped me figure out what a PbP game looks like.
I really liked Mitnal and he had a lot more to say ... I was just waiting for Ruono to talk to his dog in front of him so that he could roll his eyes and say to Blackwing "Who ever heard of a talking dog."
The game was fun but I know what it is like to be swamped with work. July is often like that for me.
I knew it!
"The DeeEmmss, they walk eeenn, but they do not walk oouuutt..."
Seems like this game has eaten three DM's now...
Good luck man! Stuff happens, we will see you around I do not doubt.
Hi Rend. I'm in Ottawa. My son is a Sens fanatic.Actually Canadian, but a night owl, ...
And I'm in Calgary... but not much of a hockey fan (how un-Canadian of me, I know)...
-- X
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Joventus, As Twiceborn mentioned I have just started a Whispering Cairn / AoW pbp as well as my other fairly long running pbp.
Currently we have five active players (human wizard, human cleric, human fighter, human ranger and half-orc druid) and I have a sixth player who has expressed interest early on, but it looks increasingly unlikely that he’s going to join the game.
As such, I could probably take on another player. Be warned though, that a few of the players are novice play by posters and/or with limited computer access, so posts may not always be regular from some players (though so far it seems to be going well enough).
On the surface of things, Twiceborn’s suggestion of having Rend join the game fresh from having explored part of the Cairn himself (in Sean’s game) could work, but in practise there are problems with this. You guys actually explored a reasonable amount of the Cairn and overcame some of its interesting puzzles. I don’t want to deny my players of that by having Rend guide them through those areas.
I suppose if you wanted to join my game I would prefer either a new character, or a Rend who has explored much less (if any) of the Cairn.
Karid bows to the esteemed DM and says, “Thank you for the game. I had a great time.”