Pathfinder Adventure: Prey for Death

I do hope that this is the cover, it is gorgeous!

Ed Reppert wrote:

TRDG wrote:

I see we lost Vanessa to WotC

Where did you see that?

She updated her Blue Sky (Twitter competitor) bio with "WotC Staff" and "D&D Producer", at the very least.

LinkedIn too.

Ah, well.

Bold to assume that Vanessa is incapable of working both.

IIRC, WotC has a strict noncompete clause in their contracts.

Far be it from me to say, I hope there's a PDF version. I just have no call for hardcover books anymore as none of my groups meet face-to-face. There is no mention of a PDF in the product description yet, while other pre-orders do list PDFs even if you cannot preorder.

On that note, I wish Paizo would allow preorders and subscriptions in the PDF format as that is the only format that has meaning for me in this day and age.

I don't remember a single time in 15 years where they did not offer a PDF of a product, I'd imagine this would not be the first.

There will be a PDF of this adventure, yes. We have no plans of not doing PDFs of our products anytime soon, if ever.

Will we be seeing a FoundryVTT module down the line?

I understand that Rusthenge was an exception to the norm, but having the module is such a boon from GM prep perspective - just load and run.

Will we be seeing a FoundryVTT module down the line?

I understand that Rusthenge was an exception to the norm, but having the module is such a boon from GM prep perspective - just load and run.

Andrew White said that there is a very good chance that there will be a module earlier in here :)

If this gets Foundry VTT module it's insta buy

My current conspiracy theory is that Paizo is testing the waters to potentially turn Adventure Paths into quarterly 192~256 hardcovers permanently.

Starfinder tends to be the place that Paizo first tests new concepts, which started the 3 parter adventure path trend. That line is now shifting to hardcover adventure paths. Seven Dooms had a hardcover equivalent. A standalone issue 200 was a good test product. The campaign setting products shifted to hardcover. And now the stand-alone adventure line is shifting to hardcover.

Stores tend to have an easier time selling hardcovers and they restock more often. 5E shifted to hardcover adventures some time ago for multiple reasons. Quarterly releases sell better. You don't compete against yourself with players buying only a select few of products. This was a huge problem with DND 3E and the relentless Forgotten Realms products. Buyers get fatigue and sales have a huge drop-off.

I think the Lost Omens line has sold a lot better since the shift to hardcover, over the 64 page softcovers of "Pathfinder Chronicles" and "Pathfinder Campaign Setting." (The product is better too in my opinion, it has less inconsistencies. The relentless releases of the previous line had more editing issues. It seems there was some lore that had less oversight since it was being hammered out so quickly.)

Paizo's current release format is a holdover from the APs basically being a Dungeon magazine replacement. They were a magazine company, but the market has moved on, and their place in that market has shifted.

My current conspiracy theory is that Paizo is testing the waters to potentially turn Adventure Paths into quarterly 192~256 hardcovers permanently.

Starfinder tends to be the place that Paizo first tests new concepts, which started the 3 parter adventure path trend. That line is now shifting to hardcover adventure paths. Seven Dooms had a hardcover equivalent. A standalone issue 200 was a good test product. The campaign setting products shifted to hardcover. And now the stand-alone adventure line is shifting to hardcover.

Stores tend to have an easier time selling hardcovers and they restock more often. 5E shifted to hardcover adventures some time ago for multiple reasons. Quarterly releases sell better. You don't compete against yourself with players buying only a select few of products. This was a huge problem with DND 3E and the relentless Forgotten Realms products. Buyers get fatigue and sales have a huge drop-off.

I think the Lost Omens line has sold a lot better since the shift to hardcover, over the 64 page softcovers of "Pathfinder Chronicles" and "Pathfinder Campaign Setting." (The product is better too in my opinion, it has less inconsistencies. The relentless releases of the previous line had more editing issues. It seems there was some lore that had less oversight since it was being hammered out so quickly.)

Paizo's current release format is a holdover from the APs basically being a Dungeon magazine replacement. They were a magazine company, but the market has moved on, and their place in that market has shifted.

While I think calling this a conspiracy theory is selling yourself short (it's perfectly sound and logical), I think the real mark of this will be when we see the format that Starfinder 2e APs are going to come in. If this does come to Pathfinder, it won't be for another 2 or 3 years at the earliest.

Honestly, I don't even dislike this outcome! I think it's perfectly reasonable, and it'd be interesting to see what the format does for it. Seven Dooms is 204 pages, and it certainly feels like it has "enough" in it - but the more they can squeeze in there the better.

I am all for quarterly hardcover releases if that is the way it goes. Less monthly shipping fees (overseas rates hurt), hardcover weather better and travel better. Monthly is nice but it can make the stories in APs feel disjointed. Much easier to read the story end to end before starting to run it.

So I've been holding onto my seat for more Rahadoum content and AFAIK JJ has been planning out a Rahadoum adventure featuring the Red Mantis for like, a while. I don't know if that's what this is gonna be but if it is I'm a lot more interested. I'll wait and see.

Could certainly help explain how and why this ties into War of Immortals if something big goes down in the godless nation.

Went a little off topic there at the end. Please keep the conversations on the module itself everyone!

TRDG wrote:

James and we, get to see what he has been talking about the last couple years about a Mantis adventure he has been thinking a lot on and wants it to be told(unless this is something else James??).

CAN'T wait to see the new Remastered Red mantis in all its glory and seeing the tweeks that go along with it!!

My most memorable characters when I get to actually play and not GM IS this one.

SUPER EXCITED for this and I wonder if this will add more lore to our sweet sweet Mantis "Hit Squad" society.

Tom

This is very much the "You play evil PCs who are Red Mantis Assassins" adventure itch I've been eager to scratch forever. The Red Mantis Assassins are an export from my homebrew setting, and I've long wanted to get more about them in print in the form of an adventure like this one.

It's not the SAME adventure I planned back then, but to be fair, I'd had several different adventures planned (and even a novel at one point) for getting them more screen time. This one's the right adventure for the time though, and hopefully folks like it and we'll be able to do more with them in the future.

Thanks James, I thought I posted a reply but looks like it did'nt take just after you posted this!!

Now not sure you can reply to this BUT..

So for those interested in the Mythic (Godsrain / War of the Immortals) storyline this is the first one we should play run? Or could you pop this in anywhere be it the Curtain Call AP or Triumph of the Tusk.

Just trying to get the max experience of this and I am assuming no mythis class or monster stuff until Tusk and The war of the Immortals book?

Thanks for any help here

Tom

Now not sure you can reply to this BUT..

So for those interested in the Mythic (Godsrain / War of the Immortals) storyline this is the first one we should play run? Or could you pop this in anywhere be it the Curtain Call AP or Triumph of the Tusk.

Just trying to get the max experience of this and I am assuming no mythis class or monster stuff until Tusk and The war of the Immortals book?

Thanks for any help here

Tom

Prey for Death is written for high level characters, but it is NOT written for Mythic characters. Those rules were not a thing when we wrote and developed and created Prey For Death, so it would have been irresponsible for us to make this a mythic adventure when we, the authors and developers of the adventure, didn't know how mythic worked.

At this point, we do have plans for mythic Adventure Paths and adventures, but those are not coming out this year.

This year's story lines associated with Godsrain and the War of Immortals are written for non-mythic characters, but just as the return of Runelords or the death of Aroden or the secession of Ravounel or any other big event doesn't have to be a one-and-done thing that we never go back to, we WILL be telling more stories about the fallout and ramifications of War of Immortals. Some of those could potentially be for mythic characters... but again... none of those stories are adventures coming out this year.

Thank ya sir, see ya at PAIZOCON in the panels :)

Tom

Are there going to be premades? High level PC creation is a lot of work, even in 2E.

Are there going to be premades? High level PC creation is a lot of work, even in 2E.

Nope. You'll be making your own PCs for this one, but we do include some advice at the start of the adventure for your GM to use and share to help create characters for this one.

Yakman wrote:

Are there going to be premades? High level PC creation is a lot of work, even in 2E.

Nope. You'll be making your own PCs for this one, but we do include some advice at the start of the adventure for your GM to use and share to help create characters for this one.

Is this going to be on the level of what was done for 7 dooms (which was fantastic by the way), or more simplistic?

Are there any other published adventures/aps that you would recommend for getting PCs up to level for this?

James Jacobs wrote:

Yakman wrote:

Are there going to be premades? High level PC creation is a lot of work, even in 2E.

Nope. You'll be making your own PCs for this one, but we do include some advice at the start of the adventure for your GM to use and share to help create characters for this one.

Is this going to be on the level of what was done for 7 dooms (which was fantastic by the way), or more simplistic?

Are there any other published adventures/aps that you would recommend for getting PCs up to level for this?

This one really does work best if your group is playing evil PCs who have been a part of the Red Mantis and have become, in particular...

It's more on par with what we did for the start of the new Crown of the Kobold King. We don't do much at all to set up what you did before as PCs at all. It really leans into its status as a standalone, not as part of a larger whole. (And in that way shows off a type of adventure that works great as a 128 page book and NOT as a multi part Adventure Path.)

I love this idea of stands-alone adventures. One where they explicitly don’t have any suggested lead in to the adventure

Unfortunately, the digital one-shot adventure line ended up not being something we had the capacity or the proifts for to continue. I like all the adventures we did for that line and wish it had been more successful, but not all experiments are, in the end, successes to the bottom line.

We have no plans to release remastered archetype info early.

There's a lot of new lore on the Red Mantis, Achaekek, the Crimson Citadel, Ilizmagorti, and all of that in the adventure.

I realize in advance that you may not be able to say, but I'll give it a shot anyways. :)

Does this mean that the Remastered Red Mantis Archetype will be included with the adventure? While it generally works, there are definitely going to need to be some tweaking to bring it in line.

James Jacobs wrote:

Unfortunately, the digital one-shot adventure line ended up not being something we had the capacity or the proifts for to continue. I like all the adventures we did for that line and wish it had been more successful, but not all experiments are, in the end, successes to the bottom line.

We have no plans to release remastered archetype info early.

There's a lot of new lore on the Red Mantis, Achaekek, the Crimson Citadel, Ilizmagorti, and all of that in the adventure.

I realize in advance that you may not be able to say, but I'll give it a shot anyways. :)

Does this mean that the Remastered Red Mantis Archetype will be included with the adventure? While it generally works, there are definitely going to need to be some tweaking to bring it in line.

Answered early in Page 1 of this product thread:

Lebombjames wrote:

Will this have a remastered version of the Red Mantis Assassin archetype?

Yes.

As for details about it, here's an excerpt that JJ said during PaizoCon:

QUESTION:

“I would love to know more about what it was like fleshing out the Mantis as a player facing faction if you can divulge
Did the remaster change anything?”

ANSWER:
James Jacobs (he/him) — Today at 5:50 PM
There's not a lot of new player-facing stuff in here, honestly; it doesn't spend a lot of time talking about the faction since the bulk is the adventure. It IS the first standalone Remastered adventure though, so we do reprint and remaster update the rules for Red Mantis Assassins that appeared in Lost Omens World Guide and Lost Omens Legends, plus several mantis-themed spells and magic items to buy or find during the course of the adventure. The biggest change to the archetype is that since we can't say that you pick your spells from arcane spell schools for the Basic Red Mantis Magic feat, we had to build a Red Mantis school.

So most of the "fleshing out" was just "updateing" and "converting." That said, we do go into some of the lore of how the organization is run and its history and all that, which is all baked into the adventure for players to learn about.

Thou, is this adventure has some lore about war of Immortals, especially the one around Gorum?

From the art in the PaizoCon streams, very much so.

Blaydsong wrote:

James Jacobs wrote:

Unfortunately, the digital one-shot adventure line ended up not being something we had the capacity or the proifts for to continue. I like all the adventures we did for that line and wish it had been more successful, but not all experiments are, in the end, successes to the bottom line.

We have no plans to release remastered archetype info early.

There's a lot of new lore on the Red Mantis, Achaekek, the Crimson Citadel, Ilizmagorti, and all of that in the adventure.

I realize in advance that you may not be able to say, but I'll give it a shot anyways. :)

Does this mean that the Remastered Red Mantis Archetype will be included with the adventure? While it generally works, there are definitely going to need to be some tweaking to bring it in line.

Answered early in Page 1 of this product thread:

James Jacobs wrote:

Lebombjames wrote:

Will this have a remastered version of the Red Mantis Assassin archetype?

Yes.

As for details about it, here's an excerpt that JJ said during PaizoCon:

James Jacobs wrote:

QUESTION:

“I would love to know more about what it was like fleshing out the Mantis as a player facing faction if you can divulge
Did the remaster change anything?”

ANSWER:
James Jacobs (he/him) — Today at 5:50 PM
There's not a lot of new player-facing stuff in here, honestly; it doesn't spend a lot of time talking about the faction since the bulk is the adventure. It IS the first standalone Remastered adventure though, so we do reprint and remaster update the rules for Red Mantis Assassins that appeared in Lost Omens World Guide and Lost Omens Legends, plus several mantis-themed spells and magic items to buy or find during the course of the adventure. The biggest change to the archetype is that since we can't say that you pick your spells from arcane spell schools for the Basic Red Mantis Magic feat, we had to build a Red Mantis school.

So most of the "fleshing out"

...

Thanks for that. Somehow completely missed that. :)

Even more excited this post Paizo Con.

Will there be a map pack for this?

Will there be a map pack for this?

No. For lots of reasons (sales, complexity of production between lines, limitations of flip mat sizes, inability to do all the maps for an adventure, and reusability being big ones), we're moving away from doing flip mats or map-related things as tie-in products for standalone adventures or Adventure Paths, and instead are focusing on making those flip mats more widely applicable for multiple non-specific encounters. So there'll certainly be some flip mats that will work well now and then for things like random encounters or the like.

Thou, is this adventure has some lore about war of Immortals, especially the one around Gorum?

Oh yes. It WAS spoiled at the panel, so Ill tag it just in case people dont want to know (even though we REALLY want you to know)

James Jacobs wrote:

QUESTION:

“I would love to know more about what it was like fleshing out the Mantis as a player facing faction if you can divulge
Did the remaster change anything?”

ANSWER:
James Jacobs (he/him) — Today at 5:50 PM
There's not a lot of new player-facing stuff in here, honestly; it doesn't spend a lot of time talking about the faction since the bulk is the adventure. It IS the first standalone Remastered adventure though, so we do reprint and remaster update the rules for Red Mantis Assassins that appeared in Lost Omens World Guide and Lost Omens Legends, plus several mantis-themed spells and magic items to buy or find during the course of the adventure. The biggest change to the archetype is that since we can't say that you pick your spells from arcane spell schools for the Basic Red Mantis Magic feat, we had to build a Red Mantis school.

So most of the "fleshing out"

...

This is exactly the kind of thing I hoped to see come out of the Wizard remastered schools. Can't wait to read it.

Terevalis Unctio of House Mysti wrote:

Will there be a map pack for this?

No. For lots of reasons (sales, complexity of production between lines, limitations of flip mat sizes, inability to do all the maps for an adventure, and reusability being big ones), we're moving away from doing flip mats or map-related things as tie-in products for standalone adventures or Adventure Paths, and instead are focusing on making those flip mats more widely applicable for multiple non-specific encounters. So there'll certainly be some flip mats that will work well now and then for things like random encounters or the like.

:(

Drawing maps is my least favorite part of GMing.

James Jacobs wrote:

Terevalis Unctio of House Mysti wrote:

Will there be a map pack for this?

No. For lots of reasons (sales, complexity of production between lines, limitations of flip mat sizes, inability to do all the maps for an adventure, and reusability being big ones), we're moving away from doing flip mats or map-related things as tie-in products for standalone adventures or Adventure Paths, and instead are focusing on making those flip mats more widely applicable for multiple non-specific encounters. So there'll certainly be some flip mats that will work well now and then for things like random encounters or the like.

:(

Drawing maps is my least favorite part of GMing.

Fair enough!

Some context:

With the growth of Virtual Table Tops and the expansion of more and more affordable options for using projectors and tablets and displays to present published maps on a table for play, we're getting to a point where flip mats are going to be replaced by new technological options, so hopefully that can help out GMs who are in the same boat of drawing maps being their least favorite part of GMing. Those options are still pretty expensive, and not equally portable as a flip mat... yet. But I feel like we'll get there a lot sonner than we expect.

In the meantime, being at peace with non-detailed maps drawn on the field is, unfortunately, a thing some GMs will just have to be at peace with. In the spirit of being productive; here's some alternate suggestions:

1) You could build a collection of flip mats to use in place of the official maps.
2) You could print out the maps from an adventure to scale for use at your table. This will get expensive pretty quickly since printer ink and paper ain't free, of course... but you can pick and choose which ones to use to moderate those costs. (Whether or not pixelated maps are more or less attractive than hand-drawn GM maps is something each of us will have to decide for ourselves!)
3) You could recruit a player to be the mapper. This is how things worked eons ago in the dawn of RPGs. The GM would describe the area, and a designated player would map it out on graph paper. If you have a player you trust to be able to keep player knowledge separate from character knowledge, you could even provide a copy of the map for them to reference during play and to draw out on the table. For someone who enjoys drawing and making maps, this isn't really a chore at all, and being chosen for that task by a GM can potentially make for a more engaging experience for that player.

[Elfteiroh Snipped stuff unrelated to their reply]

3) You could recruit a player to be the mapper. This is how things worked eons ago in the dawn of RPGs. The GM would describe the area, and a designated player would map it out on graph paper. If you have a player you trust to be able to keep player knowledge separate from character knowledge, you could even provide a copy of the map for them to reference during play and to draw out on the table. For someone who enjoys drawing and making maps, this isn't really a chore at all, and being chosen for that task by a GM can potentially make for a more engaging experience for that player.

I was totally that player! Now I'm the GM, so no one is stealing away my drawing duties. :P

James Jacobs wrote:

[Elfteiroh Snipped stuff unrelated to their reply]

3) You could recruit a player to be the mapper. This is how things worked eons ago in the dawn of RPGs. The GM would describe the area, and a designated player would map it out on graph paper. If you have a player you trust to be able to keep player knowledge separate from character knowledge, you could even provide a copy of the map for them to reference during play and to draw out on the table. For someone who enjoys drawing and making maps, this isn't really a chore at all, and being chosen for that task by a GM can potentially make for a more engaging experience for that player.

I was totally that player! Now I'm the GM, so no one is stealing away my drawing duties. :P

I keep hearing “people wouldn’t buy a deluxe set of battle maps in the hundreds of dollars range”, but the success of Beadle and Grim sets (such as their Curse of Strahd set which has the entirety of Castle Ravenloft) tells me there is a market for ridiculously sized, multipart battlemaps that cost hundreds of dollars.

I guess 5E may have a wider net, wherein that subset of players looking for deluxe battle maps may be larger…but I’m still not convinced that’s necessarily true. I bet a crowd funded deluxe set of a popular or iconic adventure would show there is greater interest in a deluxe box set (including full battle maps) than you’d think…

Beadle and Grim also cater to a small customer base that is willing to spend far more than the average Paizo customer. I would not support a bespoke map subscription at hundreds of dollars a month, even though I love my Absalom box set.

I keep hearing “people wouldn’t buy a deluxe set of battle maps in the hundreds of dollars range”, but the success of Beadle and Grim sets (such as their Curse of Strahd set which has the entirety of Castle Ravenloft) tells me there is a market for ridiculously sized, multipart battlemaps that cost hundreds of dollars.

I guess 5E may have a wider net, wherein that subset of players looking for deluxe battle maps may be larger…but I’m still not convinced that’s necessarily true. I bet a crowd funded deluxe set of a popular or iconic adventure would show there is greater interest in a deluxe box set (including full battle maps) than you’d think…

The big difference there is frequency. It's a one time purchase for a big Beadle and Grim set. I'm talking about the cost and load of folks having to spend hundreds of dollars a MONTH to keep up with an Adventure Path's maps. I don't expect even Beadle and Grimm could sustain that pace.

I might be wrong. I'd love to be wrong. But I'm pretty confident that Paizo's customer base wouldn't be into a subscription that costs hundreds of dollars a month.

NumberA wrote:

I keep hearing “people wouldn’t buy a deluxe set of battle maps in the hundreds of dollars range”, but the success of Beadle and Grim sets (such as their Curse of Strahd set which has the entirety of Castle Ravenloft) tells me there is a market for ridiculously sized, multipart battlemaps that cost hundreds of dollars.

I guess 5E may have a wider net, wherein that subset of players looking for deluxe battle maps may be larger…but I’m still not convinced that’s necessarily true. I bet a crowd funded deluxe set of a popular or iconic adventure would show there is greater interest in a deluxe box set (including full battle maps) than you’d think…

The big difference there is frequency. It's a one time purchase for a big Beadle and Grim set. I'm talking about the cost and load of folks having to spend hundreds of dollars a MONTH to keep up with an Adventure Path's maps. I don't expect even Beadle and Grimm could sustain that pace.

I might be wrong. I'd love to be wrong. But I'm pretty confident that Paizo's customer base wouldn't be into a subscription that costs hundreds of dollars a month.

To me, it's pretty telling that they only did an "Absalom" set, and nothing with Paizo APs. I would have thought that Abomination Vault might have been very interesting to them.

OF COURSE, I know that I'm missing a LOT of data. So yeah, that's only from an outsider's perspective.

NumberA wrote:

I keep hearing “people wouldn’t buy a deluxe set of battle maps in the hundreds of dollars range”, but the success of Beadle and Grim sets (such as their Curse of Strahd set which has the entirety of Castle Ravenloft) tells me there is a market for ridiculously sized, multipart battlemaps that cost hundreds of dollars.

I guess 5E may have a wider net, wherein that subset of players looking for deluxe battle maps may be larger…but I’m still not convinced that’s necessarily true. I bet a crowd funded deluxe set of a popular or iconic adventure would show there is greater interest in a deluxe box set (including full battle maps) than you’d think…

The big difference there is frequency. It's a one time purchase for a big Beadle and Grim set. I'm talking about the cost and load of folks having to spend hundreds of dollars a MONTH to keep up with an Adventure Path's maps. I don't expect even Beadle and Grimm could sustain that pace.

I might be wrong. I'd love to be wrong. But I'm pretty confident that Paizo's customer base wouldn't be into a subscription that costs hundreds of dollars a month.

I do agree with you that a box set for every adventure would be too much, but a greatest hit would be awesome. For what it’s worth, I did buy the Absalom B&G set, but I would have been way more excited for an Abomination Vaults, Kingmaker, or Rise of the Runelords set. One of these days I hope we get a super deluxe set of one of the APs or standalones.

I would drop $500 on an Abomination Vaults set with complete battle maps, or $250 on a deluxe module like this or Fall of Plaguestone if it contained B&G level maps, props, and handouts.

What is the quality of the B&G maps?