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Not gonna lie, I've been checking multiple times a day for the Players Guide here just in case, no sign as of yet though
Same. Although my group isn't going to start playing this AP until June. After reading Book one, I'm excited to see the player options. Jon Morgantini said on Discord earlier this week that it would be here by end of week but it looks like that it might get delayed until Monday/Tuesday.
Are there player options in this chapter?
Iiinteresting, thank you!
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Note that this book still references OGL books for some feats/creatures (like the bestiaries 1-2-3, Advanced Players Guide, and others). They just made sure to only reference stuff that didn't come from other companies' OGL products.
Seems like that for adventure, this is clearly not a full reset. :P
So what beasties are in the back?
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So what beasties are in the back?
My physical copy arrived in the mail today so let's crack 'er open.
Creatures:
Arboreals-Paizo's ORC Treants
Azhana-fey forest gardeners
The Bee-Man of Bellis-2nd Ed re build of a 1st Ed being specific to the Verduran forest if I remember correctly
Chetamog-dire chipmunk? Like Giant Sloth sized Giant Chipmunk...
Cythnophorian-new corpse infesting/animating fungus
Ohancanu-Cyclopes like Fey, have an affinity for old-growth forests
Twigjack Bramble-troop stats for Twigjacks.
Oh sweet! Chetamog includes stat block for one of them as an Animal Companion.
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What's the new archetype's shtick?
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Huh, I think this is the first time I've gotten my physical copy before the Player's Guide came out.
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Players Guide here
My hero!
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I wonder if there's going to be a reference to Realm of the Fellnight Queen in here at all?
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Note that this book still references OGL books for some feats/creatures (like the bestiaries 1-2-3, Advanced Players Guide, and others). They just made sure to only reference stuff that didn't come from other companies' OGL products.
Seems like that for adventure, this is clearly not a full reset. :P
James Jacobs clarified that they will keep on doing this. They can always refer their own IP in an ORC product even if it was originally published under OGL.
Unless they feel like suing themselves ;-)
So the player’s guide demonstrates how far the players can tip the scale on the side of nature in this AP-
But what of the reverse? How protective of nature does the player group have to be to stay true to the AP as is?
The reason why I ask is that while my newbie group appreciates nature, their mindset is more akin to the average rural North American living in a conservative state or province.
My player group supports national parks but they’re a lil more suspicious than the average person of climate change and green political thought/theory. (I’ve tried) I’m a lil afraid they’ll accuse me of having ulterior motives if they think I snared them into an Aesop for their first AP.
Feel free to respond using Spoiler tags, but is there a way to run this AP so as to protect the magical forest and still alleviate the resource-hungry people’s needs?
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I wish that Howls of the Wild was already out to use awakened animals right away.
Digital Products Lead
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Feel free to respond using Spoiler tags, but is there a way to run this AP so as to protect the magical forest and still alleviate the resource-hungry people’s needs?
So, while your individual PCs may and probably should have strong opinions about who they would side with in a vacuum*, it's best if they're also pragmatic enough to recognize that full-blown war is not a good outcome for anyone, and that preserving that peace may occasionally require them to grit their teeth or beaks or whatever and make a decision that might be at odds with their own personal sympathies.
In other words, it's totally fine to have characters who strongly identify with the needs of Andoran and Taldor to harvest lumber, and it's also fine to have characters who are appalled by their disrespect for nature (maybe even in the same party!), just as long as they're not single-minded zealots solely dedicated to slaughtering the opposing side.
*Which we couldn't put in this Adventure Path, because Nature would have abhorred it. (I'm sorry.)
So the player’s guide demonstrates how far the players can tip the scale on the side of nature in this AP-
But what of the reverse? How protective of nature does the player group have to be to stay true to the AP as is?
The reason why I ask is that while my newbie group appreciates nature, their mindset is more akin to the average rural North American living in a conservative state or province.
My player group supports national parks but they’re a lil more suspicious than the average person of climate change and green political thought/theory. (I’ve tried) I’m a lil afraid they’ll accuse me of having ulterior motives if they think I snared them into an Aesop for their first AP.
Feel free to respond using Spoiler tags, but is there a way to run this AP so as to protect the magical forest and still alleviate the resource-hungry people’s needs?
So, it's entirely possible that I am overreacting here, but the part of your post that I've emboldened gives me pause, because the average person is still more suspicious of human-influenced climate change than the majority of the scientific community, I.E. the people who actually know what they're talking about...
Alright, not gonna mince words, if my interpretation of your post is accurate, I would honestly recommend not running them through this. Not gonna get more political than that, not in this thread at leastThe good news, if you decide to go through with it anyway, the BBG (of the first third at least) is superficially the kind of over-the-top extremist that Conservatives like to point at as 'what's wrong with the other side'; so as long as you play up that the PC's are not so much siding with the 'granola-crunching-hippie-weirdos' as fighting the 'kill-all-our-folks' bad guys you should be fine. Just don't bring up that even the extremists have some justification for their viewpoint/actions.
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I'm curious to read this and see how well paizo is handling giving information quickly without the alignments since the gm core settlement examples seemed confusing to me. Though it might just be matter of having to get used to different style of trpg writing again
If nothing else, its at least nice to get rid of "we can assume they are evil, right?"
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I'm curious to read this and see how well paizo is handling giving information quickly without the alignments since the gm core settlement examples seemed confusing to me. Though it might just be matter of having to get used to different style of trpg writing again
If nothing else, its at least nice to get rid of "we can assume they are evil, right?"
And in shocking news, detaching arbitrary morality judgements allows for more flexible writing with opponents that may or may not be wrong, just looking at the world through a different lens.
I'm hopeful that in this arc (and others) that the flexibility gained allows for more options and outcomes beyond 'They all fight to the death because they are (alignment)'.
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I'm curious to read this and see how well paizo is handling giving information quickly without the alignments since the gm core settlement examples seemed confusing to me. Though it might just be matter of having to get used to different style of trpg writing again
If nothing else, its at least nice to get rid of "we can assume they are evil, right?"
And in shocking news, detaching arbitrary morality judgements allows for more flexible writing with opponents that may or may not be wrong, just looking at the world through a different lens.
I'm hopeful that in this arc (and others) that the flexibility gained allows for more options and outcomes beyond 'They all fight to the death because they are (alignment)'.
TBH I do not remember seeing alignment used as a justification for the "Fights to the death" NPC tactics.
TBT I remember seeing "Fights to the death" quite often, with no justification provided.
TBH I do not remember seeing alignment used as a justification for the "Fights to the death" NPC tactics.TBT I remember seeing "Fights to the death" quite often, with no justification provided.
My brain may be conflating the two, because it was exceedingly rare that G folks 'fought to the death' but folks who had the E were seemingly always doing it.
I'm really curious to see how the factions will define on this one.
I just hope it's not like the PFS1 Scenario Red Harvest where it was scripted to be IMPOSSIBLE to get the factions to sit down and talk to each other. That would be a waste of narrative space, imo.
So, it's entirely possible that I am overreacting here, but the part of your post that I've emboldened gives me pause, because the average person is still more suspicious of human-influenced climate change than the majority of the scientific community, I.E. the people who actually know what they're talking about...
Alright, not gonna mince words, if my interpretation of your post is accurate, I would honestly recommend not running them through this. Not gonna get more political than that, not in this thread at least
The good news, if you decide to go through with it anyway, the BBG (of the first third at least) is superficially the kind of over-the-top extremist that Conservatives like to point at as 'what's wrong with the other side'; so as long as you play up that the PC's are not so much siding with the 'granola-crunching-hippie-weirdos' as fighting the 'kill-all-our-folks' bad guys you should be fine. Just don't bring up that even the extremists have some justification for their viewpoint/actions.
I’m not sure if you are overreacting tbh, but in any case one of the players responded positively to the Player’s guide so that’s good. Haven’t heard from the others yet.
The setting feels similar to that of a beloved children’s series by Patricia C Wrede, so we’re going full steam ahead once we finish Rusthenge. I might even remind the players that the forest is a semi-autonomous province, and any interlopers are defying some ancient form of federalism.
Sidenote, this has highest amount of civilian casualties I've seen in a while if you keep messing up.
Yeah, I love that there are very defined consequences! Hope they keep that up for parts 2 and 3!
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The turtle reminds me of Merlin from Disney's Sword in the Stone when he had the wizard's dual with Madam Mim.
The turtle reminds me of Merlin from Disney's Sword in the Stone when he had the wizard's dual with Madam Mim.
Thanks for that. Now I can’t unsee it, and feel ancient at the same time!
So for the gods, is it advisable to pick from the religions they suggest because there’ll be plot-related stuff related to these faiths for interesting RP moments?
The turtle reminds me of Merlin from Disney's Sword in the Stone when he had the wizard's dual with Madam Mim.Thanks for that. Now I can’t unsee it, and feel ancient at the same time!
So for the gods, is it advisable to pick from the religions they suggest because there’ll be plot-related stuff related to these faiths for interesting RP moments?
lol!
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The turtle reminds me of Merlin from Disney's Sword in the Stone when he had the wizard's dual with Madam Mim.Thanks for that. Now I can’t unsee it, and feel ancient at the same time!
So for the gods, is it advisable to pick from the religions they suggest because there’ll be plot-related stuff related to these faiths for interesting RP moments?
For deities, that should be like this yeah. It's ok to pick other deities, but if something happens related to it, it would have been because the GM added it in. :P
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Before diving into specific chapters, I want to highlight some inconsistencies found in the book. For instance, the location of Corozal in the Viridian Nexus is described as both 200 miles and 50 miles away in different paragraphs. Additionally, the timeline of Valanar the Green’s tenure is conflicting; he’s mentioned as being elected in 4700 and ruling since, but another part claims he’s ruled for 17 years. Clarification on these points would be great.
The Greenwood Gala is an engaging start to the adventure, with well-developed NPCs like Alyce and Tanasha adding depth to the event. The activities, including the Cabber Toss and Flyting Contest, are creative and fun. However, the rules for the Parasmati game need further clarification to ensure smooth gameplay. It’s also unclear if there are additional background events that could allow for potential failure by the players, as the current setup seems to guarantee their success.
The terror attack is a pivotal moment, but there are several unanswered questions:
Starting Unrest Points: The initial amount of unrest that the players should contend with isn’t specified.
Valanar the Green’s Inaction: As a 15th level Archdruid, Valanar’s failure to defend himself from the seedpod is puzzling. Did he deliberately allow the attack? His unwillingness to be resurrected hints at deeper motives that need exploration.
Investigation Gaps: Players can find evidence linking the terror attack to Taldor, yet there’s no immediate investigation, and no one claims responsibility. The GM is left without clear guidance on the perpetrator’s identity, which is frustrating for both the GM and players. The GM not knowing who perpetrated the attacks in Book 1 or 2 is not acceptable. I'm not a player you don't need to keep me in the dark.
At this stage, players possess a map indicating a location tied to the terror attack, yet Emorga insists on prioritizing the search for Corozal to foresee future events and reduce unrest. This feels disconnected from the main narrative. As of right now you could remove all of Chapter 2 and it wouldn't impact the overall story the AP is trying to tell.
Flashpoints: Each flashpoint in this chapter appears isolated, lacking a cohesive story arc that advances the main plot. The tasks—though varied and potentially engaging—do not uncover new evidence or further the investigation into the attack. Seemingly used to waste time before the vote for a new Wildwood Lodge leader takes place in a months time.
This chapter revolves around a crucial vote at the Gala grounds, now marred by a recent terror attack. What was Wildwood leadership doing in the months the players were gone?
Vote Dynamics: The introduction of new guests vying for leadership feels sudden. Why is there no representation from the Wildwood Lodge to reclaim their position? Lodge officials are mentioned as being present but not actively participating, which is confusing.
Influence Mechanics: Gaining influence seems pointless when the vote is inevitably stolen by Ruzadoya Swiftmane. This undermines players’ efforts, leading to frustration.
Aftermath of the Vote: After Ruzadoya’s unexpected victory, the narrative lacks urgency. Despite the treaty being nullified and the Gala attendees accepting an undead leader, the players are told to wait 8 hours before leaving. This delay is perplexing given the high stakes.
Downtime Misalignment: Post-escape, players are given as much downtime as they like. This is illogical as immediate action is required. Taldor’s implication in the terror attacks and the nullification of the treaty demand a swift response.
Political Response: There’s no mention of Eutropia’s reaction to the unfolding events. Given Taldor’s significant role, her response is crucial and should be clearly addressed.
Consistency: Ensure information is consistent throughout the book, especially regarding key details like distances and timelines.
Clarify Rules: Provide clearer rules and potential outcomes for events like the Parasmati game.
Investigative Path: Establish a clear investigative path post-terror attack, allowing players to follow leads and uncover the perpetrators.
Narrative Urgency: Maintain narrative urgency, especially after significant events like the terror attack and the vote.
Political Dynamics: Detail the political dynamics and responses from key figures like Eutropia to provide context and direction for the players, especially because she's mentioned in the frontmatter. I do understand for page count that Tanasha Starborne takes that place in this AP.
Player Agency: Ensure players’ efforts have meaningful impacts on the story, avoiding scenarios where their actions feel futile.
Thank you for taking your time to read all of this feedback. I hope it helps improve future AP's.
5th level to...?
5th level to...?
13th
