Pathfinder Kingmaker Adventure Path

As someone who is stilling playing and running PF1e, I'm glad we get some new stat-blocks for PF1e in the companion document. James and the team worked hard to produce these beautiful books, including new stat blocks for 5th Edition D&D and 1st Edition Pathfinder for the expanded storyline of this new edition of Kingmaker.

In matters of taste, there can be no debate!

I hope I can lend a voice of positivity here, and am grateful that Paizo went to the trouble of providing conversion notes for GMs running in other games. The Hardcover compilation was a Herculean endeavour and it's truly astonishing how many additional labors were accomplished in completing the task.

I do wish people didn't get weird about games and hobbies :'D Its good to have passion but its weird when people start talking as if they were war veterans

I just thought it was neat they provided us 1e statblocks even if I'm unlikely to use them in a while. I'm unlikely to ever run 1e aps again, but I've been wondering about homebrew or such, though I'm still scared of idea of "prepping hours for single creature that dies in first round before getting to act" that happened a lot in high levels :'D Maybe I should only run low level campaign homebrews in 1e despite my love of high levels hmm

James Jacobs wrote:

RatyborGM wrote:

That's strange a bit, to see elves with human eyes

Which elf? (Usually when this happens it's 'cause of one of two things... the image is actually of a half-elf, who have human eyes, or it's an error that slipped through.)

It's in the Player's Guide. I assumed it was the latter error, because the ears are much too long for a half-elf.

I think you are asking about Ilamaner Melarison on page 45. Looking at the original sketch on the inside back cover of War of the River Kings (Kingmaker AP, 5 of 6), it appears to be an error that slipped through.

Back on topic - I’m surprised at how excited I am about this product. My home group fizzled out in about Book 2 of the 1e AP because most of us hated the kingdom rules and the GM hated that it was too sandbox and hard for him to prep. But I’m hoping we can give it another shot.

I’m not a backer but I don’t mind waiting until 10/26. Congrats backers! You should get the product first.

Really looking forward to diving into the kingdom building rules. I’m hoping the skeleton is there to port it over to other minigames from other APs, like the caravans in Jade Regent, the carnival in Extinction Curse, the rebellion in Hell’s Rebels, etc.

H2Osw wrote:

Does a pre-order come with a pdf?

Unfortunately, it does not. PDFs will be available for sale independently from the print edition on October 26th. :/

Oof. This is saddening to me, too. Don't suppose there'll at least be a discount if you have the book?

I'm also curious about the upcoming Foundry module, with the same question.

I see that there is a 5e Bestiary if I want to run this in 5e, but I can't figure out if the actual kingdom management rules, mass combat rules, and other non-bestiary challenges/encounters will have 5e compatibility/conversions.

I'm thinking of things like traps, Perception checks, influencing NPC attitudes, even a few other skill checks like Society and Crafting -- if I pick this up and the 5e Bestiary, how much further conversion am I going to be on the hook for to run this in 5e?

That will help me to decide whether running in 5e versus getting my players to learn PF2 and running it in PF2 is the way to go.

I see that there is a 5e Bestiary if I want to run this in 5e, but I can't figure out if the actual kingdom management rules, mass combat rules, and other non-bestiary challenges/encounters will have 5e compatibility/conversions.

I'm thinking of things like traps, Perception checks, influencing NPC attitudes, even a few other skill checks like Society and Crafting -- if I pick this up and the 5e Bestiary, how much further conversion am I going to be on the hook for to run this in 5e?

That will help me to decide whether running in 5e versus getting my players to learn PF2 and running it in PF2 is the way to go.

The Kingdom rules and warfare rules are designed to be system agnostic; they don't directly interface with the other game much at all, so you should be able to use them as-is for any game... although they ARE based on the 2E design philosophy and elements, so a familiarity with Pathfinder 2E will help.

For non bestiary elements in the Adventure Path, like skill check resolutions or treasures, you'll have to do that conversion yourself... I suspect that there'll be forums here or on Reddit or elsewhere where GMs might share their work in that area though.

Mika Hawkins wrote:

H2Osw wrote:

Does a pre-order come with a pdf?

Unfortunately, it does not. PDFs will be available for sale independently from the print edition on October 26th. :/

Oof. This is saddening to me, too. Don't suppose there'll at least be a discount if you have the book?

I'm also curious about the upcoming Foundry module, with the same question.

There's a requirement to own the pdf to even purchase the foundry module. At least that's how the other premium modules have worked. (There will be a version that comes with the pdf and a version if you already have it.)

Phase Spider wrote:

I see that there is a 5e Bestiary if I want to run this in 5e, but I can't figure out if the actual kingdom management rules, mass combat rules, and other non-bestiary challenges/encounters will have 5e compatibility/conversions.

I'm thinking of things like traps, Perception checks, influencing NPC attitudes, even a few other skill checks like Society and Crafting -- if I pick this up and the 5e Bestiary, how much further conversion am I going to be on the hook for to run this in 5e?

That will help me to decide whether running in 5e versus getting my players to learn PF2 and running it in PF2 is the way to go.

The Kingdom rules and warfare rules are designed to be system agnostic; they don't directly interface with the other game much at all, so you should be able to use them as-is for any game... although they ARE based on the 2E design philosophy and elements, so a familiarity with Pathfinder 2E will help.

For non bestiary elements in the Adventure Path, like skill check resolutions or treasures, you'll have to do that conversion yourself... I suspect that there'll be forums here or on Reddit or elsewhere where GMs might share their work in that area though.

That's good to know, thank you. It might be worthwhile to add some clarity of language to the 5e conversion guide that it is just the monsters -- at $150 combined MSRP for the two products, I suspect more than a couple of people will erroneously expect to have everything they need to run the game out-of-the-box in 5e: "this volume makes quick conversion of the campaign to 5E a breeze!"

Just to make sure I understand this - if I want to run this for PF2, the “bestiary” itself is included in the AP. There isn’t a separate one to purchase, correct?

And, if we could knock of the edition wars here, that’d be great.

Just to make sure I understand this - if I want to run this for PF2, the “bestiary” itself is included in the AP. There isn’t a separate one to purchase, correct?

And, if we could knock of the edition wars here, that’d be great.

Correct. Monsters which are not already in the core bestiaries have their stat blocks in the encounters or appendices.

To be absolutely clear, while I don't work for Paizo and might possibly be mistaken, my experience with other products is that if there's a stat block in one of the (three now) PF2E Bestiaries, that block will be referenced but not repeated in the Adventure book. OTOH, all the critters from the Bestiaries are available on Archives of Nethys.

I don't know if anyone will do for this anything like Ron Lundeen's GM guide for Abomination Vaults (available on Pathfinder Infinite) but that document includes stat blocks for every critter in the Abomination Vaults AP - in effect he's resolved the Bestiary references so that the GM (excuse me while I b*!*! at my stupid spell checker) will have all the stat blocks he needs in one place.

Steev42 wrote:

Mika Hawkins wrote:

H2Osw wrote:

Does a pre-order come with a pdf?

Unfortunately, it does not. PDFs will be available for sale independently from the print edition on October 26th. :/

Oof. This is saddening to me, too. Don't suppose there'll at least be a discount if you have the book?

I'm also curious about the upcoming Foundry module, with the same question.

There's a requirement to own the pdf to even purchase the foundry module. At least that's how the other premium modules have worked. (There will be a version that comes with the pdf and a version if you already have it.)

No there isn't? There's an option if you own the PDF, and an option if you don't own the PDF. If you don't own the PDF, you get the PDF for free with the purchase of the Foundry module.

I'm also curious about the upcoming Foundry module, with the same question.

When it is released -- currently targeted for sometime around Q2 2023 -- you can expect to receive the PDFs as a bonus when you purchase the Foundry module at full price, or receive a discount on the Foundry module if you already own the PDFs, similar to what we've already done with the Beginner Box, Abomination Vaults, and Adventure Path products.

H2Osw wrote:

Steev42 wrote:

Mika Hawkins wrote:

H2Osw wrote:

Does a pre-order come with a pdf?

Unfortunately, it does not. PDFs will be available for sale independently from the print edition on October 26th. :/

Oof. This is saddening to me, too. Don't suppose there'll at least be a discount if you have the book?

I'm also curious about the upcoming Foundry module, with the same question.

There's a requirement to own the pdf to even purchase the foundry module. At least that's how the other premium modules have worked. (There will be a version that comes with the pdf and a version if you already have it.)

No there isn't? There's an option if you own the PDF, and an option if you don't own the PDF. If you don't own the PDF, you get the PDF for free with the purchase of the Foundry module.

So then I'll take the option that doesn't include or require the pdf.

"Note: This product offering requires previous purchase of the Pathfinder Adventure Path #178: Punks in a Powderkeg (Outlaws of Alkenstar 1 of 3) PDF. If you would like to purchase both the PDF and the Foundry module together, you may do so at this link."

You can mince words all you like, but either way you're getting the pdf. To call it free....

Removed a number of off-topic posts. This is the product page for a Pathfinder (Second Edition) product. It is not the place to engage in edition wars for RPGs. I now return you to your regularly scheduled product discussion.

I am a Fantasy Grounds Unity addict....is there any hope for me...I desperately need to know whether the Kingmaker will come to Fantasy Grounds....need help...gulp ....gulp.

I am a Fantasy Grounds Unity addict....is there any hope for me...I desperately need to know whether the Kingmaker will come to Fantasy Grounds....need help...gulp ....gulp.

That's a question for the Fantasy Grounds team.

Thank god this will be out for Roll20 on the street date!!

VERY happy to get the Hi res maps, Now to plan for the perfect group and should I Gm this or be a player first time around? Played and GMed King for PF I to death, as well as a number of PC game run throughs, but I still think it will still be fun either way!!

Tom

Cori Marie wrote:

H2Osw wrote:

Steev42 wrote:

Mika Hawkins wrote:

H2Osw wrote:

Does a pre-order come with a pdf?

Unfortunately, it does not. PDFs will be available for sale independently from the print edition on October 26th. :/

Oof. This is saddening to me, too. Don't suppose there'll at least be a discount if you have the book?

I'm also curious about the upcoming Foundry module, with the same question.

There's a requirement to own the pdf to even purchase the foundry module. At least that's how the other premium modules have worked. (There will be a version that comes with the pdf and a version if you already have it.)

No there isn't? There's an option if you own the PDF, and an option if you don't own the PDF. If you don't own the PDF, you get the PDF for free with the purchase of the Foundry module.

So then I'll take the option that doesn't include or require the pdf.

"Note: This product offering requires previous purchase of the Pathfinder Adventure Path #178: Punks in a Powderkeg (Outlaws of Alkenstar 1 of 3) PDF. If you would like to purchase both the PDF and the Foundry module together, you may do so at this link."

You can mince words all you like, but either way you're getting the pdf. To call it free....

You're right in there is no way to purchase without also getting the PDF. If you don't want the PDF, you don't have to use it. But you're not required to buy the PDF separately.

This is a special situation to other books of this sort. This was crowdfunded and there are specific rules that cause them not to be able to offer that.

Can you clarify why that is the case? As has been said elsewhere, plenty of rpg kickstarters still offer pdf and book combined when it comes to post pledge orders.

I’d be very interested to know what rules you are referring to?

Cori Marie wrote:

This is a special situation to other books of this sort. This was crowdfunded and there are specific rules that cause them not to be able to offer that.

Can you clarify why that is the case? As has been said elsewhere, plenty of rpg kickstarters still offer pdf and book combined when it comes to post pledge orders.

I’d be very interested to know what rules you are referring to?

Presumably something to do with this not wholly being a Paizo product? Legendary Games was involved. It could also be a term of the crowdfunding platform that was used.

The Sword wrote:

Cori Marie wrote:

This is a special situation to other books of this sort. This was crowdfunded and there are specific rules that cause them not to be able to offer that.

Can you clarify why that is the case? As has been said elsewhere, plenty of rpg kickstarters still offer pdf and book combined when it comes to post pledge orders.

I’d be very interested to know what rules you are referring to?

Presumably something to do with this not wholly being a Paizo product? Legendary Games was involved. It could also be a term of the crowdfunding platform that was used.

To clarify, I don’t see this as a crowdfunding rule, it is a choice we’ve made in gratitude to our backers.

Who’d be an RPG publisher? ;)
It’s one of those choices where you’re just choosing which group to annoy.

(To be clear, I’m a backer who couldn’t care less; but I bet someone would have. I appreciate the way Paizo has dealt with the protracted delays. So many creators just kind of shrug and pretend there’s not an issue).

keftiu wrote:

The Sword wrote:

Cori Marie wrote:

This is a special situation to other books of this sort. This was crowdfunded and there are specific rules that cause them not to be able to offer that.

Can you clarify why that is the case? As has been said elsewhere, plenty of rpg kickstarters still offer pdf and book combined when it comes to post pledge orders.

I’d be very interested to know what rules you are referring to?

Presumably something to do with this not wholly being a Paizo product? Legendary Games was involved. It could also be a term of the crowdfunding platform that was used.

To clarify, I don’t see this as a crowdfunding rule, it is a choice we’ve made in gratitude to our backers.

I see. So effectively inclusive pdf’s have been made a backer reward so you don’t want to undermine that by also offering them with the post pledge sales.

I understand that. I think it will annoy and put off a lot of future purchasers. I will just buy the pdf for instance and miss out on the hardback, because the pdf is essential but the book is nice to have - but I’m not going to buy the an AP five times.

1. I already have the 1e version when it came out.

2. The pdf of the anniversary edition is essential for me for practical reasons.

3. The roll20 module for the maps and the tokens for online play when it is released.

4. I’ll need the 5e book of conversions of the monsters and NPC stats that are already in the main book, because there isn’t a 5e version of the main path.

5. Having to buy the hardback version of information that has already been reprinted many times and is in some cases obsolete is just a step too far. Or rather, having to buy the pdf as well as the hardback is a step too far.

I mean, I love Kingmaker, but there is a limit.

5. Having to buy the hardback version of information that has already been reprinted many times and is in some cases obsolete is just a step too far. Or rather, having to buy the pdf as well as the hardback is a step too far.

I mean, I love Kingmaker, but there is a limit.

And so, one does just what you have decided: you buy only what you want/need, and nothing further. I don't see why that's a problem.

The Sword wrote:

5. Having to buy the hardback version of information that has already been reprinted many times and is in some cases obsolete is just a step too far. Or rather, having to buy the pdf as well as the hardback is a step too far.

I mean, I love Kingmaker, but there is a limit.

And so, one does just what you have decided: you buy only what you want/need, and nothing further. I don't see why that's a problem.

Yes of course. It maybe this products unusual circumstances of being a reprint and having a 5e alternative. But for me buying 5 different versions of a product (6 if you include the CRPG) isn’t normal.

By the way -- Has anyone done a 5E conversion of the PF2 material in this AP other than the monsters? Or do conflicts between the licenses for DM's Guild and Pathfinder Infinite make that effectively impossible?

By the way -- Has anyone done a 5E conversion of the PF2 material in this AP other than the monsters? Or do conflicts between the licenses for DM's Guild and Pathfinder Infinite make that effectively impossible?

In addition to the monsters, the 5E and PF1 Bestiaries convert NPCs, HAZARDS AND TRAPS, and the COMPANIONS.

Backcover text:

WHO RULES THE STOLEN LANDS?
The Stolen Lands have long been the domain of bandits and monsters, but no longer! Your party has been granted a charter to explore these wilds, defeat its dangers, and build a brand new nation. Yet not everyone will welcome you as new neighbors, and powerful supernatural forces have their own plans for the region. Can you defeat your kingdom’s enemies and become one of the greatest new nations in the world?

This hardcover edition of Kingmaker contains:
• All six chapters of the original Kingmaker Adventure Path, expanded and updated for use with Pathfinder Second Edition.
• Hundreds of pages of new content that expands the campaign to cover the full range of levels from 1 to 20.
• Extensive rules for building and running kingdoms, settlements, and armies, along with narrative-based rules for quickly resolving mass combat.

CONTENT WARNING
The Pathfinder Kingmaker Adventure Path, Pathfinder Kingmaker Bestiary (5E), Pathfinder Kingmaker Bestiary (First Edition), and Pathfinder Kingmaker Companion Guide contain typical Pathfinder action and adventure, player options, creatures, and more. They also include content related to child abuse and neglect, graphic depictions of torture and violence, substance abuse, and other themes that are appropriate for more mature audiences. Before you run this adventure or use any of the supplementary sourcebooks, understand that consent from everyone at the table—including the players and the Game Master—is vital to a safe and fun play experience. You should talk with your players before beginning the adventure and modify descriptions or events as appropriate.

APPENDICES............................... 502
APPENDIX 1: BEYOND THE CAMPAIGN 504
APPENDIX 2: KINGDOMS 506
APPENDIX 3: WARFARE 566
APPENDIX 4: KINGMAKER TREASURES 584
APPENDIX 5: NPCS AND MONSTERS 590
ADDITIONAL RESOURCES 622

Mark Stratton wrote:

The Sword wrote:

5. Having to buy the hardback version of information that has already been reprinted many times and is in some cases obsolete is just a step too far. Or rather, having to buy the pdf as well as the hardback is a step too far.

I mean, I love Kingmaker, but there is a limit.

And so, one does just what you have decided: you buy only what you want/need, and nothing further. I don't see why that's a problem.

Yes of course. It maybe this products unusual circumstances of being a reprint and having a 5e alternative. But for me buying 5 different versions of a product (6 if you include the CRPG) isn’t normal.

Would it be too much if I wuz to suggest getting the Pathfinder Kingmaker Companion Guide as well? ;)

It does contain the rules for camping [ala the Owlcat crpg version] and weather stuff as well as the full context of what the Companion mini-adventures are. ;p

Now that being said, you could probably get it some other time so's the stats contained for the mini-adventure could be used as some sorta filler or random encounter instead. :)

PS. Now that I thinks about it, this also applies to those using the PF1e ruleset too!

Steev42 wrote:

I'm also curious about the upcoming Foundry module, with the same question.

When it is released -- currently targeted for sometime around Q2 2023 -- you can expect to receive the PDFs as a bonus when you purchase the Foundry module at full price, or receive a discount on the Foundry module if you already own the PDFs, similar to what we've already done with the Beginner Box, Abomination Vaults, and Adventure Path products.

Can you confirm we will receive a discount on the foundry module equal to the pdf price if we purchase the pdf version first?

Does anyone know if the Foundry Module will include the companion guide?

Does anyone know if the Foundry Module will include the companion guide?

I do not have any details on this spring 2023 product yet.

NicholasGN wrote:

Does anyone know if the Foundry Module will include the companion guide?

I do not have any details on this spring 2023 product yet.

Gotcha, thanks for answering!

If I preordered and have it in my sidecart but won't have anything coming from a subscription until an LO next month will it be shipped with the LO sub?

If I pre-order this, will the shipping begin on release date (October 26th)? Going by the "ships from our warehouse in 11-20 days", I wouldn't receive the book for at least 2-4 weeks from release date. Trying to decide whether to purchase from Amazon or directly from Paizo, goal is to receive product soonest possible date. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

If I pre-order this, will the shipping begin on release date (October 26th)? Going by the "ships from our warehouse in 11-20 days", I wouldn't receive the book for at least 2-4 weeks from release date. Trying to decide whether to purchase from Amazon or directly from Paizo, goal is to receive product soonest possible date. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

If you order now you will be placed in the queue. Shipping has already started. We do not wait until the street date to start shipping.

Tomivasek wrote:

If I pre-order this, will the shipping begin on release date (October 26th)? Going by the "ships from our warehouse in 11-20 days", I wouldn't receive the book for at least 2-4 weeks from release date. Trying to decide whether to purchase from Amazon or directly from Paizo, goal is to receive product soonest possible date. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

If you order now you will be placed in the queue. Shipping has already started. We do not wait until the street date to start shipping.

Thank you for the quick response Aaron! Just placed my order :)

If you order now you will be placed in the queue. Shipping has already started. We do not wait until the street date to start shipping.

Aha, so that shipping email was real! Can you tell me how to get the tracking link to work (it just doesn't, goes to USPS MI and then broken)

Sadly the SUPS MI tracking links don't work.

mordigo wrote:

I am a Fantasy Grounds Unity addict....is there any hope for me...I desperately need to know whether the Kingmaker will come to Fantasy Grounds....need help...gulp ....gulp.

That's a question for the Fantasy Grounds team.

My understanding is that they have their copy and are working om making it available, but do not have an eta on when it will happen.

The initial release will only have very basic usage for the kingdom building and warfare subsystems, but will likely see later development in updates and/or someone will offer stuff on FG Forge.

From the developers notes, we may even see the module release sometime close to the end of October or November. It is a big project, so they made no promises, but it is currently in production to be released so you will see it, mordigo.