Pathfinder Secrets of Magic

Hm. What, exactly, is a spell?

I'll be honest, with the number of times I wrote that word in my last couple of posts (between 2 and 5 posts, thanks XKCD), I'm not sure that word means anything anymore. Lol. :P

I hope the 5e spell system isn't the only option they provide for non-vancian casting. The prep wasn't the issue for my group, the issue was spell slots themselves.

So something like spell points (hope they don't use the term mana anymore, but then again, Mana Wastes exist...)?

I like the Hârnmaster spell system: every spell is a separate skill, casting a spell makes you fatigued, fatigue reduces your ability to cast a spell.

In Hârnmaster, everything is a skill, and fatigue can arise from other things (like running, or swimming, or melee combat), and affects almost every skill.

No spell points. No spell slots. No daily preparation. No silly "you just cast a spell, so now you've forgotten how to cast it".

At least they kept Selytiel as the iconic magus, even if he is more flowy.

170 new spells are still more than double the APG spells! :O

That's kinda a lot of spells. o_o

More interestingly, that would increase the number of spells in the game by about 33%, as we are currently around 500 or so spells.

I do like the cover~

Elfteiroh wrote:

170 new spells are still more than double the APG spells! :O

That's kinda a lot of spells. o_o

More interestingly, that would increase the number of spells in the game by about 33%, as we are currently around 500 or so spells.

I don't mind, but man, picking spells is going to get even harder XD

I like the Hârnmaster spell system: every spell is a separate skill, casting a spell makes you fatigued, fatigue reduces your ability to cast a spell.

In Hârnmaster, everything is a skill, and fatigue can arise from other things (like running, or swimming, or melee combat), and affects almost every skill.

No spell points. No spell slots. No daily preparation. No silly "you just cast a spell, so now you've forgotten how to cast it".

GURPS uses a similar idea, each spell is a separate skill, and all cost fatigue, but the more skill you have, the less it costs, and the faster it can be to cast, so that if you put a number of points into training one specific spell, that can become your 'go-to' spell that you can cast every round without spending time 'casting' it and fairly cheaply.

I like the granularity of being able to be really, really good at this one spell right here, but not necessarily all that hot with other spells of that type. And it being something that can be duplicated as points and training time become available, so that the more experienced mage could have two or more signature spells, and not just be a one-trick pony.

Best of all, there's no levels to gate this sort of thing off, so that a starting mage can be really good at one spell (so long as they are willing to skimp in other areas...), and doesn't have to 'wait till X level' for the 'build to come online').

That all said, it's a persnickety system, more strongly focused on mechanics (and obsessive sorts like myself...) over flavor, IMO, and not nearly as popular as D&D or PF.

A lot of those spells might be tied into the systems like geomancy, and so on. So it might not be as much of a big bump to the four lists.

I get the feeling geomancy won't be its own spell list (although it may have focus spells, I suppose).

Maybe it will be its own spell list but I doubt it will have any exclusive spells.

Highly doubt that yeah. The way I interpreted was something along the lines of the subsystems in the GMG... They said the environment affects your casting, so maybe lightning spells leaves water charged, fire spells will leave burning areas, etc. Or if there's a storm brewing then your air spells are more powerful.

Basically, no clue!

Heh. In English, the form -mancy refers to divination. So "geomancy" is a form of divination (and so is necromancy). In Pathfinder, not so much.

"Words mean what I want them to mean, neither more nor less." -- Humpty Dumpty

Heh. In English, the form -mancy refers to divination. So "geomancy" is a form of divination (and so is necromancy). In Pathfinder, not so much.

"Words mean what I want them to mean, neither more nor less." -- Humpty Dumpty

Wow, didn't know that. I checked it just to be sure and it seems like this is legit. Thank you.

You're welcome. ;-)

Heh. In English, the form -mancy refers to divination. So "geomancy" is a form of divination (and so is necromancy). In Pathfinder, not so much.

"Words mean what I want them to mean, neither more nor less." -- Humpty Dumpty

To be fair, I don't think any fantasy fan would think of "fire divination" when they see pyromancy, same with necromancy. These words just mean different things in the fantasy genre.

Ed Reppert wrote:

Heh. In English, the form -mancy refers to divination. So "geomancy" is a form of divination (and so is necromancy). In Pathfinder, not so much.

"Words mean what I want them to mean, neither more nor less." -- Humpty Dumpty

To be fair, I don't think any fantasy fan would think of "fire divination" when they see pyromancy, same with necromancy. These words just mean different things in the fantasy genre.

It's still cool to know their etymologies.

Ed Reppert wrote:

Heh. In English, the form -mancy refers to divination. So "geomancy" is a form of divination (and so is necromancy). In Pathfinder, not so much.

"Words mean what I want them to mean, neither more nor less." -- Humpty Dumpty

To be fair, I don't think any fantasy fan would think of "fire divination" when they see pyromancy, same with necromancy. These words just mean different things in the fantasy genre.

Hence the Humpty Dumpty quote.

Will there be new Archetypes introduced in this book as well?

Will there be new Archetypes introduced in this book as well?

Quite likely!

with potent offerings for all spellcasting character classes

Will there be new Archetypes introduced in this book as well?

At a bare minimum, they have to include Magus Dedication and Summoner Dedication. I would be very surprised if there aren't others as well.

I hope there will be some class archetypes (finally).

Would love for an official Necromancer arche type. I know we can dabble but to have a class dedicated to undeath.... *looks at avatar*

I would be thrilled to see more Thassilonian Magic... just saying...

Things I'm most excited for:

-the Magus, especially the bow-wielding Magus
-the hope of a weapon-conjuring Archetype, like the 1e Gloomblade
-the hope of a (Class?) Archetype for something like a 1e Blooadrager

I would love to hear some spoilers about new player options other than Magus and Summoner

I would love to hear some spoilers about new player options other than Magus and Summoner

Look to PaizoCon and Paizo LIVE.

I suspect that at least one of the ancestries contained in this book will be the kovintus, introduced in Bestiary 3. With multiple subgroups that are clearly heritages and ties to geomancy, this tome is a natural fit.

I suspect that at least one of the ancestries contained in this book will be the kovintus, introduced in Bestiary 3. With multiple subgroups that are clearly heritages and ties to geomancy, this tome is a natural fit.

Unless I missed a big teaser or announcement, I don't think we're gonna get any new ancestries in this book.

Would love for an official Necromancer arche type. I know we can dabble but to have a class dedicated to undeath.... *looks at avatar*

I have built fun necromancers out of wizards, sorcerers, clerics and an occultist, but they were still wizards, sorcerers, clerics and an occultist.

I imagine the summoner as a conjuration specialist wizard that had a semi-permanent conjured pet (devil/genie/elemental). In development, the flexibility of the eidolon kind of took over and the summoner grew into what we finally saw. A unique class. Similarly a transmuter wizard specialist (steering away from a druid wild shaping), and an evocation specialist that had targeted attacks and splash instead of AoE, through development ended up with mutagens and bombs: alchemists.

To that end I have been waiting to see the other schools get their own organically grown so-as-to-no-longer-resemble-a-specialist-wizard class.

With the way PF2 feats work, a specialist caster can function (hopefully) seemlessly within the system. Even better would be some new arcane theses , bloodlines, or doctrines.

Just speculation on my part :)

C. Richard Davies wrote:

I suspect that at least one of the ancestries contained in this book will be the kovintus, introduced in Bestiary 3. With multiple subgroups that are clearly heritages and ties to geomancy, this tome is a natural fit.

Unless I missed a big teaser or announcement, I don't think we're gonna get any new ancestries in this book.

Yeah, no such teaser has come up in any material I've seen. If new ancestries were in Secrets of Magic, they would have made it known. Just like how they did in the APG and in Guns & Gears.

GGSigmar wrote:

I would love to hear some spoilers about new player options other than Magus and Summoner

Look to PaizoCon and Paizo LIVE.

Oh I do ;)

I for one am glad there doesn't seem to be ancestries in the book. I feel like we have a good selection on ancestries already and more coming in lost omens books, leaves more room for spells, feats and magic items thst are harder to print enmasse elsewhere.

Secrets of magic should be magic front and centre and very little obligatory padding.

would love a varient system were idk. necromancy spell dcs are higher in graveyards divine are higher in temples ect. or something like fire or necromancy good & evil magic heavily used in an area causes a temperature change or living things to take damage or good & evil creatures stuff like that. or a system that let's you have something like the winds of magic from warhammer or eventually starts killing the world ala d&ds dark sun setting idk I'm tossing ideas out here

There were some interesting spoilers that came out in a recent Game Trade Magazine. List shamelessly stolen from u/richienvh on r/Pathfinder2e:

Magus will get Spellstrike and a new mechanic referred to as magical stance, a stance that adds damage all their attacks

• Summoner is mentioned as having the ability to share senses, quickly manifest and dismiss their eidolon

• a lot of new spells. There’s vague mentions of more cantrips, variable action spells, summon spells and 1e spells

• there’s a section on legendary loot. Mentions more magic weapons, runes and apex items. New categories of items seem to be fulu paper talismans, grimoire spellbooks, magical tattoos and customizable staves.

• spellhearts seem to be new items that attach to your gear to improve attacks, defense and grant extra spells

• the book of unlimited magic will use class archetypes. Flexible spellcaster is a class archetype that mimics 1e arcanist

Worth mentioning: the text states that every prepared caster can take flexible caster class archetype

Our first class archetypes! And interestingly, the class archetype is not specific to a single class.

It also has color art for Seltyiel and the Summoner iconic, named Ija!

I'm reading that stance as suggesting the recharge mechanic on spell-strike is indeed going to be focus, tbh. The magical stance is to let you fill the gap while still feel like your wielding energies.

Or maybe the stance only works while you hold the spell.

Do we know anything about Ija?

Do we know anything about Ija?

They're the new Iconic Summoner and they summon a dragon eidolon.

There's a lot more to parse from the article than from Winkie's description. I'm linking the .PDF of the magazine HERE.

There's 2 other categories of magic items, "extra-powerful spell components" and the spellhearts that were mentioned separately in the Reddit post.

Do we know anything about Ija?

Only that she's a student, her eidolon is a dragon, and that quite a few of her adventures are featured throughout the book via the art with various other Pathfinder iconics.

"Elemental, magnetic, and time-manipulating magic" is mentioned, and it gets me excited 'cause reading the Fists of the Ruby Phoenix story blog yesterday made me want magnetic spells, so this is a pleasant surprise! Also, more time magic is great, since I really don't want to have to wait until I get 10th level spells to cast Time Stop (or 14th level to cast the somewhat-janky Time Beacon).

The grimoire spellbooks mentioned granting extra magical benefits, so there's that to look out for.

And these two quotes are great for those looking for expanded options:

"Change how you cast spells entirely, with options like channeling powerful emotions as a source of magic, casting exclusively elemental spells, tying your gear directly to your soul, harnessing the magical potential of true names, and more."

"Ley lines make certain locations more magical, and pervasive magic can put magical power into every creature and place in your game world if the normal amount of magic isn’t enough!"

Now to ponder if spontaneous spellcasters will get their own class archetype, or if they're left out in the dust.

Also to mention that they warn that many of these will be uncommon or rare options.

Also, yes, Ija is human and thus young, not a "small" ancestry.

I also gleaned more info, the full paper talisman was written by a Taiwanese woman that has a degree in "Asian history", so they should be pretty "culture accurate" (they are a kind of Taoist magic used in China, and more commonly known as "the paper talisman on hopping vampires' face")

ALSO: They said, "more than 200 new spells, including focus spells"...
My earlier guess was around 170 spells without counting focus spells. I guessed this by guessing for about 50 new focus spells... Adding both together gives us 220 spells... So in the right ballpark! O_O
Now I really wonder how close I got with my totally illegitimate guesstimate. xD

Also, yes, Ija is human and thus young, not a "small" ancestry.

I have some vague of memory of Paizo stating she is a halfling? Might be wrong though.

the somewhat-janky Time Beacon).

Hm. I didn't know "janky". Surprisingly, my dictionary did know: "of extremely poor or unreliable quality". Of its etymology the dictionary says "1990s. Origin unknown". So I learned something anyway. :-)

There is a small chance it refers to me in my competitive MtG days. I built decks to a theme not a strategy (elementals, flyers, elves), but managed to get into semi-finals frequently.

MtG was when I first heard the term & always thought they were talking about me :) I am not that vain. It almost certainly doesn't apply to me, but it is fun to shout 'What?" every time I hear my name. :)

I wonder what ley lines will do? that is some of the varient system stuff that's very interesting to me

Elfteiroh wrote:

Also, yes, Ija is human and thus young, not a "small" ancestry.

I have some vague of memory of Paizo stating she is a halfling? Might be wrong though.

They have said specifically that she is a human child. I don't have problem with her being a child like some people seemed to, but I do wish she was anything other than another human.

Do we have any updates on when we can expect the pre-order and/or street release dates?

I imagine we'll get that at paizocon