Hi, everyone.
I'm reading every spell in the manual, and in my opinion project image is a useless spell that clearly need some errata.
RAW, once the image is create (in a very short range) it cannot move, it does not mimic your movement/action and you even need to keep constant eye contact with it!
The heightened version simply increase sustainability to 10 minutes... which is pointless, again, because RAW the image cannot move?
In which scenario does this spell has some kind of utiliy?
I believe that an errata to increase the power level of this spell is needed.
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Hey, it allows you to cast spells from 30 feet away! It's almost like you don't appreciate a 7th level spell doing the same as a 1st level metamagic feat... ;)
But yeah, the range could use an upgrade (the spell becomes slightly better if used with Reach Metamagic) and being able to move the image when you sustain the spell should REALLY be spelled out in the description (I assume it is intended).
And honestly, even with those upgrades it seems rather weak. Unlike PF1 you can't use it to cast around corners since you can't look through the image's eyes.
You project an illusory image of yourself. You must stay within range of the image, and if at any point you can’t see the image, the spell ends. Whenever you Cast a Spell other than one whose area is an emanation, you can cause the spell effect to originate from either yourself or the image. Because the image is an illusion, it can’t benefit from spells, though visual manifestations of the spell appear. The image has the same AC and saves as you. If it is hit by an attack or fails a save, the spell ends.
Option 1:
A. Cast Project Image.
B. Cast Resilient Sphere around yourself or preferably a Wall of Force between you and the image that isolates you from all enemies.
C. You no longer have line of effect to anything outside your Resilient Sphere or across the Wall of Force, but you can nevertheless cast spells from your image because you can still see it. Those enemies can't touch you, however, until they counteract or destroy your force bubble/wall.
Option 2:
A. Cast Project Image followed by Invisibility(4th).
B. Cast spells that originate from the Project Image, while you chill out of the way and undetectable by your rays or other visual clues to your location. (A wizard can use Silent Spell if your GM is going to say they can hear your verbal components to find your square.)
These are rather expensive ways to protect yourself, but they work and they're a bit different than existing options. And note that with the exception of Project Image -> Wall of Force they meet the criteria for the generalist wizard's Bond Conservation feat, so you can do them at least twice per day. Three if you lead off with a 9th level spell before your Project Image. (If you could see through your own Prismatic Sphere that would be the ultimate goal.)
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You project an illusory image of yourself. You must stay within range of the image, and if at any point you can’t see the image, the spell ends. Whenever you Cast a Spell other than one whose area is an emanation, you can cause the spell effect to originate from either yourself or the image. Because the image is an illusion, it can’t benefit from spells, though visual manifestations of the spell appear. The image has the same AC and saves as you. If it is hit by an attack or fails a save, the spell ends.Option 1:
A. Cast Project Image.
B. Cast Resilient Sphere around yourself or preferably a Wall of Force between you and the image that isolates you from all enemies.
C. You no longer have line of effect to anything outside your Resilient Sphere or across the Wall of Force, but you can nevertheless cast spells from your image because you can still see it. Those enemies can't touch you, however, until they counteract or destroy your force bubble/wall.
Option 2:
A. Cast Project Image followed by Invisibility(4th).
B. Cast spells that originate from the Project Image, while you chill out of the way and undetectable by your rays or other visual clues to your location. (A wizard can use Silent Spell if your GM is going to say they can hear your verbal components to find your square.)
These are rather expensive ways to protect yourself, but they work and they're a bit different than existing options. And note that with the exception of Project Image -> Wall of Force they meet the criteria for the generalist wizard's Bond Conservation feat, so you can do them at least twice per day. Three if you lead off with a 9th level spell before your Project Image. (If you could see through your own Prismatic Sphere that would be the ultimate goal.)
However, in either case, a SINGLE attack vs.your mediocre ac nullifies your strategy and makes you waste a lot of resources and time.
Nope, I still believe this spell is broken and vastly underpowered.
I would argue RAW that you can move the image, you project an image within 30ft. It doesn't say anything about that image being stationary but it does give clear guidelines as to what would break the spell.
I can see niche uses for it when it comes to espionage and traps, but yeah no use during combat and I think it could do with an extended range. Reach spell does increase it's range to 60ft though which helps.
Wow, I missed that last sentence. I thought it immune to everything like the PF! Absolutely ridiculous.
And now I think I mentioned this in the potential errata thread for the playtest.
I have a doubt.
Can a [url=https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=237Project Image[/url] be used to flat-foot?
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Can a Project Image be used to flat-foot?
Do you mean flanking?
Probably not. Spell effects that can provide flanking (such as Spiritual Guardian) say that they can.
Some spell effects that seem like they might be able to (such as Spiritual Weapon) explicitly say that they can not, but I don't think that is necessary.
Flanking is defined as an effect between allies and an ally is defined as a 'someone' - so I would generally rule that to mean a creature.
So summoning spells create a creature that is an ally and can be used for flanking. Other than that, unless the spell explicitly says that it can provide flanking, then it cannot.
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B. Cast spells that originate from the Project Image, while you chill out of the way and undetectable by your rays or other visual clues to your location. (A wizard can use Silent Spell if your GM is going to say they can hear your verbal components to find your square.)
Please note that spellcasting has obvious visual manifestations as well as audible.
When you Cast a Spell, your spellcasting creates obvious visual manifestations of the gathering magic
Can a Project Image be used to flat-foot?Do you mean flanking?
Probably not. Spell effects that can provide flanking (such as Spiritual Guardian) say that they can.
Some spell effects that seem like they might be able to (such as Spiritual Weapon) explicitly say that they can not, but I don't think that is necessary.
Flanking is defined as an effect between allies and an ally is defined as a 'someone' - so I would generally rule that to mean a creature.
So summoning spells create a creature that is an ally and can be used for flanking. Other than that, unless the spell explicitly says that it can provide flanking, then it cannot.
But this may not point the Project Image as an illusion without tests?
The Spiritual Guardian is obviously is a magic entity because it's translucent so I understant that a flanked creature aren't flat-footed against it. But Project Image is an Illusion of yourself. Don't allow it to give flank bonus to other creature specially before notice that it's an illusion won't be a metagame way to detect it as an illusion?
That said if only allied creatures can flank so at last Illusory Creature can at least be used to flank an opponent. What's happen when it's disbelieved? It's become unable to flank after this?
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First, don't mistake game mechanics for description of events in-game. Those two don't always match up completely.
The Spiritual Guardian is obviously is a magic entity because it's translucent so I understant that a flanked creature aren't flat-footed against it.
It is the other way around. Spiritual Guardian does provide flanking and flat-footed. It is one of the few spells that does.
But Project Image is an Illusion of yourself. Don't allow it to give flank bonus to other creature specially before notice that it's an illusion won't be a metagame way to detect it as an illusion?
To try and justify things a bit and make the mechanics better match up to the game description, you can describe the Project Image illusion as not moving. It is obviously an illusion. Also for game mechanics, nothing happens if any enemies disbelieve it - it doesn't need to be believed in order to have its listed effects.
That said if only allied creatures can flank so at last Illusory Creature can at least be used to flank an opponent. What's happen when it's disbelieved? It's become unable to flank after this?
Illusory Creature does move and make attacks. Once someone disbelieves the illusion and it is no longer able to do any damage, I could understand a GM ruling that it no longer provides flanking either.
But Illusory Creature can "attack" once the caster is able to cast non-emanation spells from it.
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But Illusory Creature can "attack" once the caster is able to cast non-emanation spells from it.
Trying to parse this and I am not sure that I am succeeding.
Illusory Creature can attack because it behaves like a creature and the spell says that it can make attacks.
Project Image can not attack. There is nothing in its description that says that it can attack.
No, casting an offense spell from its location does not, mechanically, count as having the Image attacking. In fact, your caster character also doesn't use their ability to cast damage dealing spells in order to justify their own ability to provide flanking. It is because they are able to make melee attacks - even if it is only an unarmed attack using a 'fist' attack with another body part such as their foot. That is what provides flanking.
To flank a foe, you and your ally must be on opposite sides of the creature. A line drawn between the center of your space and the center of your ally's space must pass through opposite sides or opposite corners of the foe's space. Additionally, both you and the ally have to be able to act, you must be wielding melee weapons or be able to make an unarmed attack, you can't be under any effects that prevent you from attacking, and you must both have the enemy within reach. If you are wielding a reach weapon, you use your reach with that weapon for this purpose.
Castings spells doesn't provide flanking. Unless the spell explicitly says otherwise, or if the spell creates a creature that counts as an ally and can meet the requirements of providing flanking by being able to make melee attacks.
B. Cast spells that originate from the Project Image, while you chill out of the way and undetectable by your rays or other visual clues to your location. (A wizard can use Silent Spell if your GM is going to say they can hear your verbal components to find your square.)Please note that spellcasting has obvious visual manifestations as well as audible.
When you Cast a Spell, your spellcasting creates obvious visual manifestations of the gathering magic
Subtle spell (and the one bard has) removes those manifestations. Conceal spell does too I believe.
If the spell was 1 action I would understand it. Enables some safe emanation bombing.
It can be used to cast spells around corners at targets to which you do not have a line of effect, ergo it is not pointless. Underpowered for its level? Perhaps.
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It can be used to cast spells around corners at targets to which you do not have a line of effect, ergo it is not pointless. Underpowered for its level? Perhaps.
It doesn't alter line of sight rules: if you cast a spell that requires it, then Project Image doesn't change that. IMO, it's a niche niche spell...
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It's a villain's spell, since it requires set up, often involving having another effect up or an unusual ability to grant line of sight/targeting without exposing oneself. It'd usually take two rounds to set up what's essentially a defensive position for only one person...for all of one successful attack, so you kind of have to protect the image too. That's a bit contrived. Villains often have that time or forewarning, and terrain for even better support; with PCs the odds vary a lot.
Not that a PC couldn't set up such a circumstance, but typically parties are reacting to an evolving battlefield. Spending such a high level spell to keep a single PC out of danger (yet not too far and for not too long) doesn't help the rest. I don't I'd reach a point where I felt I had a spare 7th to toy with, or that I'd bother to pay for that spell.
There were tons of shenanigans available with that spell, and arguably there still are, but they require so much set up. Heck, maybe the spell's that level because that's when the PCs have the resources to face a GM pulling such tricks, i.e. burning resources crossing terrain or splitting the party.
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It can be used to cast spells around corners at targets to which you do not have a line of effect, ergo it is not pointless. Underpowered for its level? Perhaps.It doesn't alter line of sight rules: if you cast a spell that requires it, then Project Image doesn't change that. IMO, it's a niche niche spell...
Line of Sight is not Line of Effect. Its not totally clear, but there is enough in the spell I'd allow it to create an effect on the other side of a Wall of Force. Around corners? I guess for area spells it would be OK, but you would need line of sight somehow to target something specific.
Prying eye?
Overwatch Dedication would work (it eventually let's you see around corners within 60ft), but the Project Image spell should just grant LoS to begin with given its level.
Line of Sight is not Line of Effect.It can be used to cast spells around corners at targets to which you do not have a line of effect, ergo it is not pointless. Underpowered for its level? Perhaps.It doesn't alter line of sight rules: if you cast a spell that requires it, then Project Image doesn't change that. IMO, it's a niche niche spell...
Indeed, wall of force is precisely what I had in mind. It could also be used to circumvent a globe of invulnerability that might be blocking a passage (this happened in a recent game of mine, though project image wasn't used in that case).
Mirrors (hopefully ones difficult to break), possibly one-way
Concealment you can see through, but hopefully the enemy can't.
Some spells as RD mentioned Prying Eyes
Alternate Precise Senses (albeit hard for PCs to gain)
Through a minion's eyes, as some bonds/abilities allow
I'd add Reach Spell because 30' is quite limiting, and it might throw off some calculations of enemies (i.e. players) that know the spell. :-)
I think the really trick is getting the image to survive! I think putting it behind a barrier and then using Cloudkill, damaging Walls, and other indirect or battlefield-hazard spells might work best. At minimum it'd spend one of the party's indirect spells in response, and it might get off quite a few spells or drain other resources first.
Or one could pretend to be the image, putting the image in the safe spot that the PCs try to get to, though maybe after a few runs with normal usage. "Aha, obviously the real caster's up on the ledge and we're meant to pursue this one down here that likely pulls us into a trap!"
Oh, and traps...
It's easy to go kamikaze when it's just your projected image in danger.
ETA: I mean as a lure, not to send into traps to trigger them.