Pathfinder Bestiary 2

Fantastic - more monsters to inflict on my players!! Can't wait to see whats in volume 2.

That cover looks absolutely amazing.

Looking forward to this one!

Very curious to see what we get in this one, especially if we get some totally new monsters??!!

Tom

Can't wait for the Primal Dragon!

I hope there's just as much flavor for them as there's for the classic dragons. Please Paizo, make it happen! Flavorful dragons!

Can't wait for the Primal Dragon!

I hope there's just as much flavor for them as there's for the classic dragons. Please Paizo, make it happen! Flavorful dragons!

The 2nd Edition Bestiary is our dragon format going forward. We'll have plenty of room for dragon flavors.

Very curious to see what we get in this one, especially if we get some totally new monsters??!!

Tom

There will be some totally new ones, as in the first one.

I hope we get plenty of the classics. We need more Nagas! I need a Spirit Naga to run Against the Cult of the Reptile God properly!

TRDG wrote:

Very curious to see what we get in this one, especially if we get some totally new monsters??!!

Tom

There will be some totally new ones, as in the first one.

any new rakhsasa like the marajha in the 1 edition from the second bestiary too ?

@James Jacobs

1) Will there be more Dinosaurs in Bestiary 2?

2) Will the Pteranodon be in it?

I am asking, because "Adventure Path #154: Assault of the Dinosaurs" has been announced for April 2020 and the Pteranodon has been announced for october 2019s "Pathfinder Battles Legendary Adventures" miniatures set.

I am looking forward to finally use my HUGE & GARGANTUAN dinosaur minis and toys! ;-)

Nice looking forward to this

The new summoning rules do a lot to keep my interest in new bestiaries!

@James Jacobs

1) Will there be more Dinosaurs in Bestiary 2?

2) Will the Pteranodon be in it?

I am asking, because "Adventure Path #154: Assault of the Dinosaurs" has been announced for April 2020 and the Pteranodon has been announced for october 2019s "Pathfinder Battles Legendary Adventures" miniatures set.

I am looking forward to finally use my HUGE & GARGANTUAN dinosaur minis and toys! ;-)

1) How could there NOT be?

2) No, because the pteranodon is in Bestiary 1. It's not a dinosaur, though. Look under Pterosaur, on page 272.

1) Will there be more Dinosaurs in Bestiary 2?

Oo... Good question! :D

2) Will the Pteranodon be in it?

??

Isn't the Pteranodon already in the first Bestiary?

<checks>

Yep! Page 272 under "Pterosaur" (along with the Questzalcoatlus).

So, yeah?

--C.

<edit> Ninja'ed by the T-rex himself! :p

Oh! & thanks for the answers! ^^

I was actually hopping for both, the imperial and the primal dragon septs to be covered in this book, just so we could get all existing true dragons converted to 2E quickly... =/

I'm afraid we will have to wait for a long time to see completely NEW true dragons.

I love the second edition Bestiary format and I hope they keep it up. The monster lore using the name the monsters refer to themselves as is wonderful. I hope to see more animals and many more low level encounters.

The 2nd Edition Bestiary is our dragon format going forward. We'll have plenty of room for dragon flavors.

The Dragon format is changing from the first bestiary? How will it be different?

James Jacobs wrote:

The 2nd Edition Bestiary is our dragon format going forward. We'll have plenty of room for dragon flavors.

The Dragon format is changing from the first bestiary? How will it be different?

No the format changed from the 1st Edition Bestiaries to the 2nd Edition Bestiaries.

James Jacobs wrote:

The 2nd Edition Bestiary is our dragon format going forward. We'll have plenty of room for dragon flavors.

The Dragon format is changing from the first bestiary? How will it be different?

We don't spend a page detailing 12 different dragon age categories, our stat blocks are smaller overall, and dragons can extend beyond 2 pages if needed, all of which gives us plenty of room to put in flavor for all of them.

Does that mean dragons no longer have 12 different age categories or that they will be featured elsewhere or in adventures themselves?

Does that mean dragons no longer have 12 different age categories or that they will be featured elsewhere or in adventures themselves?

I suppose we will see rules for the dragons age category together with the monster creation rules in the GmG.

I was also suprised by the complete absence of those rules in the bestiary itself, but I'm ok if that means we are getting more flavor for the dragons. Yet, i do hope they are not gone.

Does that mean dragons no longer have 12 different age categories or that they will be featured elsewhere or in adventures themselves?

It means that building a dragon of any age category in 2nd edition is easier and faster than building one in 1st edition, even though 1st edition had 2 pages of dedicated tables for it. (ALAS... those monster building rules won't be out until Gamemaster Guide.)

I've been building adventures for this game or D&D for decades, and in that time, I've never really felt having 12 dragon age categories was useful. In theory, it means that you can use a dragon of almost any challenge for any encounter, but in fact it's just repetitive. And once you have a game environment where you can have all sorts of dragons... it becomes even more repetitive.

Young, adult, and ancient cover the basics well enough. If you want a hatchling or a middle-age or an old dragon, they still exist. In fact, I statted up a few of these examples in Age of Ashes and it was fine.

CorvusMask wrote:

Does that mean dragons no longer have 12 different age categories or that they will be featured elsewhere or in adventures themselves?

I suppose we will see rules for the dragons age category together with the monster creation rules in the GmG.

I was also suprised by the complete absence of those rules in the bestiary itself, but I'm ok if that means we are getting more flavor for the dragons. Yet, i do hope they are not gone.

The rules for different power levels of dragon are the same as for any monster. The names of the 12 dragon age categories aren't "gone" since they still exist for reference in 1st edition books (or D&D books for that matter), and obviously dragons don't pop out of the egg as "young" or stop getting more powerful and older at "ancient," but that space is indeed better suited to giving dragons more flavor, I feel.

The Gold Sovereign wrote:

CorvusMask wrote:

Does that mean dragons no longer have 12 different age categories or that they will be featured elsewhere or in adventures themselves?

I suppose we will see rules for the dragons age category together with the monster creation rules in the GmG.

I was also suprised by the complete absence of those rules in the bestiary itself, but I'm ok if that means we are getting more flavor for the dragons. Yet, i do hope they are not gone.

The rules for different power levels of dragon are the same as for any monster. The names of the 12 dragon age categories aren't "gone" since they still exist for reference in 1st edition books (or D&D books for that matter), and obviously dragons don't pop out of the egg as "young" or stop getting more powerful and older at "ancient," but that space is indeed better suited to giving dragons more flavor, I feel.

Some instructions on how to get these other ages would be cool. Even it is "slap this template". Maybe fit it a Age of Ashes article or in the Gamemastery Guide?

This fast??? Awesome!

Can you please spoil ONE creature for me? Is Nuckelavee in this one?

Some instructions on how to get these other ages would be cool. Even it is "slap this template". Maybe fit it a Age of Ashes article or in the Gamemastery Guide?

Do folks REALLY need that detailed a breakdown of dragon ages? Feedback whenever we put a dragon into an adventure suggests otherwise, since folks ALWAYS seem to want bespoke, custom-built dragons in adventures and not "short stat blocks" with no personality. In a way, tamping down the plentitude of dragon stats and ages in the core bestiary is somewhat of an attempt to skew toward making sure all dragons are custom built for their adventures, rather than drag-and-drop foes in the same category as bears and forest drakes and giant ants.

There'll be instructions on how to build ANY monster in the Gamemastery Guide, and those will work perfectly for building a dragon of any color and of any size and of any power level. There's not really a need to have a separate section just for dragons when the rules work the same for any thing.

Paladinosaur wrote:

Some instructions on how to get these other ages would be cool. Even it is "slap this template". Maybe fit it a Age of Ashes article or in the Gamemastery Guide?

Do folks REALLY need that detailed a breakdown of dragon ages? Feedback whenever we put a dragon into an adventure suggests otherwise, since folks ALWAYS seem to want bespoke, custom-built dragons in adventures and not "short stat blocks" with no personality. In a way, tamping down the plentitude of dragon stats and ages in the core bestiary is somewhat of an attempt to skew toward making sure all dragons are custom built for their adventures, rather than drag-and-drop foes in the same category as bears and forest drakes and giant ants.

There'll be instructions on how to build ANY monster in the Gamemastery Guide, and those will work perfectly for building a dragon of any color and of any size and of any power level. There's not really a need to have a separate section just for dragons when the rules work the same for any thing.

My guess is that what they are looking for is rules or guidelines for what unique special abilities dragons get at different age categories?

Like, Great Wyrm gets Incinerate, Great Wyrm Nightmare Dragon gets Dream terror and Great Wyrm Sovereign Dragon gets Master counterspelling?

Paladinosaur wrote:

Some instructions on how to get these other ages would be cool. Even it is "slap this template". Maybe fit it a Age of Ashes article or in the Gamemastery Guide?

Do folks REALLY need that detailed a breakdown of dragon ages? Feedback whenever we put a dragon into an adventure suggests otherwise, since folks ALWAYS seem to want bespoke, custom-built dragons in adventures and not "short stat blocks" with no personality. In a way, tamping down the plentitude of dragon stats and ages in the core bestiary is somewhat of an attempt to skew toward making sure all dragons are custom built for their adventures, rather than drag-and-drop foes in the same category as bears and forest drakes and giant ants.

There'll be instructions on how to build ANY monster in the Gamemastery Guide, and those will work perfectly for building a dragon of any color and of any size and of any power level. There's not really a need to have a separate section just for dragons when the rules work the same for any thing.

I'd much rather see more interesting dragons (as current), rather than the old method. It's easy enough to slap the weak and elite adjustments on the current 2e dragons to get extra pseudo age categories.

James Jacobs wrote:

Paladinosaur wrote:

Some instructions on how to get these other ages would be cool. Even it is "slap this template". Maybe fit it a Age of Ashes article or in the Gamemastery Guide?

Do folks REALLY need that detailed a breakdown of dragon ages? Feedback whenever we put a dragon into an adventure suggests otherwise, since folks ALWAYS seem to want bespoke, custom-built dragons in adventures and not "short stat blocks" with no personality. In a way, tamping down the plentitude of dragon stats and ages in the core bestiary is somewhat of an attempt to skew toward making sure all dragons are custom built for their adventures, rather than drag-and-drop foes in the same category as bears and forest drakes and giant ants.

There'll be instructions on how to build ANY monster in the Gamemastery Guide, and those will work perfectly for building a dragon of any color and of any size and of any power level. There's not really a need to have a separate section just for dragons when the rules work the same for any thing.

My guess is that what they are looking for is rules or guidelines for what unique special abilities dragons get at different age categories?

Like, Great Wyrm gets Incinerate, Great Wyrm Nightmare Dragon gets Dream terror and Great Wyrm Sovereign Dragon gets Master counterspelling?

The information for 1st edition dragons works fine for those guidelines of what unique abilities might kick in at what age category.

I wouldn't mind just seeing the Ancient Dragons in the book, more room for others, and Drakes could function as the young dragons anyway.

I'm actually ok with this approach. Nothing that can't be solved by homebrewing some abilities. The more flavor we have the better, specially for the paizo unique dragons that are to come. Can't wait to see new true dragons and linnorms and the azi (that were actually mentioned in the first bestiary).

Paladinosaur wrote:

Some instructions on how to get these other ages would be cool. Even it is "slap this template". Maybe fit it a Age of Ashes article or in the Gamemastery Guide?

Do folks REALLY need that detailed a breakdown of dragon ages? Feedback whenever we put a dragon into an adventure suggests otherwise, since folks ALWAYS seem to want bespoke, custom-built dragons in adventures and not "short stat blocks" with no personality. In a way, tamping down the plentitude of dragon stats and ages in the core bestiary is somewhat of an attempt to skew toward making sure all dragons are custom built for their adventures, rather than drag-and-drop foes in the same category as bears and forest drakes and giant ants.

There'll be instructions on how to build ANY monster in the Gamemastery Guide, and those will work perfectly for building a dragon of any color and of any size and of any power level. There's not really a need to have a separate section just for dragons when the rules work the same for any thing.

I get where you are coming from here, and maybe I’m in the minority, but I absolutely loved the old dragon rules. They were one of my favorite parts of 1st Edition. I’m excited to see where you’re heading with dragons and monsters in general, but I am very sad to see this go. It makes dragons feel like just another stat block to me.

I get where you're coming from Malachandra, but after thinking about, I think I'd rather dragons be "just another stat block" in the beastiaries. Interesting stat blocks, but stat blocks. Because that leaves room for an eventual "Lost Omens Dragon Codex" at some point, that includes those general guidelines of "a wyrmling gold dragon probably looks like this", alongside more stat blocks and descriptions of "but THIS gold dragon wyrmling, the Lady Tyresa, looks like this, has these abilities, these allies" and so on.

Well I can't wait for the GM guide I built myself Kythons for the 1st edition but I'm looking forward to updating them to 2nd edition..... though I don't know what I'm going to do if there's no blindsense? maybe lifesense? well see

Quick question. Will there be Special Editions for this like the Core, Beastiary 1, and GameMaster rulebooks?

Like this one?

I get where you're coming from Malachandra, but after thinking about, I think I'd rather dragons be "just another stat block" in the beastiaries. Interesting stat blocks, but stat blocks. Because that leaves room for an eventual "Lost Omens Dragon Codex" at some point, that includes those general guidelines of "a wyrmling gold dragon probably looks like this", alongside more stat blocks and descriptions of "but THIS gold dragon wyrmling, the Lady Tyresa, looks like this, has these abilities, these allies" and so on.

Ideally I’d like both the special rules and the codex you mentioned, but having the codex would definitely make me feel better about the current design direction.

Like this one?

Maaaaaaaaaybe. :D

While this is getting a bit repetitive, I wish Imperial Dragons made the mark and managed to tag along with the Primals in B2... If not, maybe the next one (B3).

^ Which would be the same as what happened in 1E: imperial dragons are in B3 of P1e.

So...?

--C.

I would also like to see both primal and imperial dragons here, but what I would love to see was a new dragon family.

I would really like to see the Azi as well.

I would like to see more undead and constructs, especially low-to-mid level undead; for example allip, draugr, mohrg, gearghost, beheaded, crawling hand, huecuva, witchfire, kurobozu, totenmaske, lovelorn, penanggalen, mananggalan, etcetera. Also some sort of expanded list of variant abilities for different monster types would be great, but I suspect this might be a better fit for GMG?

I hope we only get one group of those dragons. It says Mythological Monsters, so I hope to see a lot of those in this book, 1st bestiary was rather lacking in the mythology department.

I hope we only get one group of those dragons. It says Mythological Monsters, so I hope to see a lot of those in this book, 1st bestiary was rather lacking in the mythology department.

There's a lot of myhtological creatures in Bestiary 2... but there were a lot in the first one also. And because I wanna put my proverbial mythological money where my mouth is... the full list of monsters inspired from real-world mythology in Bestiary 1 includes (not counting mythology-adjacent things like azatas and daemons and drow)...

I'm sure I missed a few... but flipping through the bestiary it was tough to turn more than a few pages without hitting a monster from mythology.

rakshasa !!!! Yes thanks you James Jacob.

Awahoon wrote:

I hope we only get one group of those dragons. It says Mythological Monsters, so I hope to see a lot of those in this book, 1st bestiary was rather lacking in the mythology department.

There's a lot of myhtological creatures in Bestiary 2... but there were a lot in the first one also. And because I wanna put my proverbial mythological money where my mouth is... the full list of monsters inspired from real-world mythology in Bestiary 1 includes (not counting mythology-adjacent things like azatas and daemons and drow)...

** spoiler omitted **

I'm sure I missed a few... but flipping through the bestiary it was tough to turn more than a few pages without hitting a monster from mythology.

I meant to say, more mythology creatures from Bestiary 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6, which are less changed by D&D like the Chimera and Barghest are.

Also more bizarre, obscure mythology creatures, like Papinijuwari and Abaia for example.

But thanks for that answer, that's pretty cool!

Another question, are the Rusalka, Eloko, Mokele-Mbembe, Asanbosam and Kishi in Bestiary 2? The mythology creatures from the Adventure Paths? I wouldn't mind seeing ALL the AP bestiary monsters in the upcoming bestiaries.

Also may I really say that the Furcifur is an awesome creature that really needs more attention in Pathfinder 2nd Edition!

How long does it usually take for these books to come out in PDF form?

They have the same street date as the physical book.

How long does it usually take for these books to come out in PDF form?

If you subscribe (which you can start and cancel at any time) you can download the PDF once your order is processed. That may be 2-3 weeks before you get your book.

CorvusMask wrote:

James Jacobs wrote:

Do folks REALLY need that detailed a breakdown of dragon ages?

My guess is that what they are looking for is rules or guidelines for what unique special abilities dragons get at different age categories?

The information for 1st edition dragons works fine for those guidelines of what unique abilities might kick in at what age category.

This might be a place where the internal sense at Paizo is contaminated by the familiarity with the system(s).

For the vast majority of people trying to use the rules, I imagine that the lack of age categories on dragons is an insurmountable hurdle without some fixed rules for how to augment creatures, and that doesn't land for another ... what, year? six months? Is there a release date for the GMG?

Even for experienced players, it can be incredibly hard to get balance right, which is exactly why you want experts crafting the specifics.

Now, I understand the space limitations and the advantage of saving that space. I'm just suggesting that you shouldn't be surprised that that leaves a lot of players who aren't constantly working in the internals of the system without many options, and that makes them frustrated.

For the vast majority of people trying to use the rules, I imagine that the lack of age categories on dragons is an insurmountable hurdle without some fixed rules for how to augment creatures, and that doesn't land for another ... what, year? six months? Is there a release date for the GMG?

Game Mastery Guidecomes out in January 2020, about 3 months before this product.