Creative Director
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Do we know yet if the PRC's in this are going to be reprints or brand new?
Some will be reprints, some will be brand new.
As with a bestiary, about 1/3 of this book is reprinted material, all of which has been revised as needed or expanded upon as space allows. And as with the reprinted monsters in the Bestiaries, this gets these concepts into a hardcover so that they'll stay in print longer than they otherwise would.
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Creative Director
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I saw it referenced the pathfinder society
but within the society are different groups
grand lodge
scarab sages
dark archives
sovereign court
liberty's edge
the exchange
will these have representation?
Not so much; a lot of that content is Pathfinder Society Campiaign org play stuff and is more appropriately explored in the context of the org play campaign. This book's going to be taking a more "bird's eye" view of the Pathfinder Society. Of all the organizations in the book, this one's the one that's had the most written about it, after all.
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Do we know yet if the PRC's in this are going to be reprints or brand new?Some will be reprints, some will be brand new.
As with a bestiary, about 1/3 of this book is reprinted material, all of which has been revised as needed or expanded upon as space allows. And as with the reprinted monsters in the Bestiaries, this gets these concepts into a hardcover so that they'll stay in print longer than they otherwise would.
Thanks James, I am looking forward to this book!
Really? An "actually"?o_o
I... don't know what that means. Did casual use of the word "actually" fall out of common use when I wasn't looking?
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Creative Director
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I... don't know what that means. Did casual use of the word "actually" fall out of common use when I wasn't looking?
Really? An "actually"?o_o
There's an association in some folks' mind (including mine) that stepping in to refute and correct someone, often when the thing being "corrected" is an opinion, begins with a faux and insincere "Actually...", particularly among some toxic internet circles. If it wasn't intended this way, then whew! Still, it triggered my annoyance meter. :-/
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Wow. This Product Discussion hasn't been on-topic for quite awhile...
So, at least 18 prestige classes and 36 archetypes possible?! Nice. It would be nice to get a Twilight Talon archetype or PrC.
Things that I would very much enjoy, since we have so many PrCs and archetypes.
- PrCs that scale some non-casting stuff. Kineticist blasts or talents, phantoms or eidolons, that sort of thing. A way to swap casting progression for something else would be really cool, but understandably tricky to balance or word.
- An archetype for every class. We've got enough, after all!
- PrCs with flexible stat dependencies. It's nice to have more classes with synergy.
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Yeah guys!
Contributor
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What have we here?
Courtesy of Wayfinder 16. Go get it, it's free! ^_^
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What have we here?
Courtesy of Wayfinder 16. Go get it, it's free! ^_^
Dawww, they'ze buddies ^w^
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What have we here?
Courtesy of Wayfinder 16. Go get it, it's free! ^_^
It's like the Curse of the Crimson Throne villain squad just walked in!
I'm really down with the Red Mantis art we've seen in this ad and in the hardcover Curse of the Crimson Thingymajig. I can't recall an older Red Mantis Assassin by Wayne Reynolds, but I certainly like what I see here!
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That art actually looks bit like new one .-. I mean, you can see holes in the "eyes" and helmet in general looks more like helmet in shape of mantis head than mantis head rubber mask
Anyway, I'm surprised this book apparently has prestige class for Grey Maidens since I thought their appeal was about them just being regular fighters ._.;
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That art actually looks bit like new one .-. I mean, you can see holes in the "eyes" and helmet in general looks more like helmet in shape of mantis head than mantis head rubber mask
Anyway, I'm surprised this book apparently has prestige class for Grey Maidens since I thought their appeal was about them just being regular fighters ._.;
Yup, exactly that. Same thing I liked in the CotCT art; the armor looks believable as well as iconic. The helmet looks like, well, a helmet!
I think it looks more menacing than the "rubber mask," too.| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Quick comment on title and confusion of contents: I'm pretty sure I've never bought a book, *especially* an RPG one, based solely on the title.
I will admit to the same initial confusion/desire to not get this book as so many others have commented. And then James Jacobs mentioned this in his reply to me in his Ask thread, and I quickly searched it out.
And I did what I always do, read the description and then instantly decided this was a book I wanted.
I loved Paths of the Righteous, which James also helped develop(or solely developed) and if this book is half as good as that, this will be another much loved addition to my RPG library.
The fact that it includes info on several of the less explored organizations is pretty freakin sweet, as are any new archetypes and PrCs.
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I love lore. Bring it on, with whatever title or product line you guys want. :)
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I hope there is a large amount of "crunch" material for it to be worth buying in here, because I am still unsatisfied with the "fluff" not being generic enough.
James just said there's 24 PrCs. The description claims at least two archetypes per organization, of which there are 18, meaning we shall supposedly get 36 archetypes minimum.
Also, dozens and dozens(again, per description) of 'new spells, magic items, feats, and other unique character options of diverse nature'
Seems like plenty o crunch to me.
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James just said there's 24 PrCs.
About. He said "about two dozen".
The product description says at least one per organization... so we've got "at least" 18 and "about two dozen". Eighteen would be 1.5 dozen and rounding that up to 'about two' would not be implausible.
From the two statements I'd guess that we are most likely getting somewhere between 19 and 23 PrCs.
The description claims at least two archetypes per organization, of which there are 18, meaning we shall supposedly get 36 archetypes minimum.
Also, dozens and dozens(again, per description) of 'new spells, magic items, feats, and other unique character options of diverse nature'
Seems like plenty o crunch to me.
Agreed. Seems likely they'll need at least three pages for the 'crunch' with each organization... so 54+ pages of crunch. That's a better ratio than the (generally well received) Villain Codex, which had ~2 pages of new crunch for each of 20 groups.
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Creative Director
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Whether or not 50 some pages of prestige classes, 40 some pages of archetypes, and 60 some pages of other rules options will be enough to satisfy any one person's notion of there being enough crunch in the book is, ultimately, only something they can answer for themselves.
The book DOES have more rules content than flavor content, but it also has more flavor content than, books like Ultimate Combat or Advanced Class Guide does.
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Creative Director
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James just said there's 24 PrCs.About. He said "about two dozen".
The product description says at least one per organization... so we've got "at least" 18 and "about two dozen". Eighteen would be 1.5 dozen and rounding that up to 'about two' would not be implausible.
From the two statements I'd guess that we are most likely getting somewhere between 19 and 23 PrCs.
Agreed. Seems likely they'll need at least three pages for the 'crunch' with each organization... so 54+ pages of crunch. That's a better ratio than the (generally well received) Villain Codex, which had ~2 pages of new crunch for each of 20 groups.The description claims at least two archetypes per organization, of which there are 18, meaning we shall supposedly get 36 archetypes minimum.
Also, dozens and dozens(again, per description) of 'new spells, magic items, feats, and other unique character options of diverse nature'
Seems like plenty o crunch to me.
The basic formula for each organization is 1.5 pages of introduction and flavor (including notes on 3 significant NPCs in that group along with a half page illustration to fill up the other .5 of that spread), 2 pages for a prestige class, 2 pages for archetypes, and 2 pages for other rule options (magic items, feats, spells, class options, etc.). This varies; some of the groups will have more than 1 prestige class. Some will have more than 2 pages for archetypes. Some will have more than 2 pages for other rules info. All depending on the needs of the group. There'll be additional flavor for everything across the board (we're going with a one-archetype per page format here, with every archetype getting an illustration, for example, which in some cases means we have room for a column of flavor text... in others only a few sentences, all depending on the rules complexity of the archetype).
It'll certainly be interesting to see if folks consider a rules element that in a prior book might have taken up 300 words now having the same amount of rules content but with 300 words of evocative flavor "as crunchy" or "less crunchy" I guess.
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As someone who's never used the Golarion campaign setting, I'm pretty excited about this book. I've been wanting to start incorporating aspects of some of these Golarion organizations into our homebrew setting. Having all the PrCs revised and updated in a hardcover is going to make that a lot easier.
I have a question about the PrC that the Aldori Swordlords chapter will contain. Is it going to be an updating of the older one from Paths of Prestige? Or an all-new one for other classes like the rogue or swashbuckler who want to become a swordlord?
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Creative Director
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Wow.
That's more than double my previous minimum estimate on crunch. I was expecting considerably more background material.
So ~20% background material vs ~80% new rules.
I'm actually a little sad we aren't getting more 'fluff'.. but I'll live. :]
It's flavor, not fluff. And we're still going to be producing flavor in the forms of softcover campaign settings and adventures and player companions and all that, never fear!
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Creative Director
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I have a question about the PrC that the Aldori Swordlords chapter will contain. Is it going to be an updating of the older one from Paths of Prestige? Or an all-new one for other classes like the rogue or swashbuckler who want to become a swordlord?
In many cases, where an organization has an existing prestige class associated with it, we're reprinting that prestige class. Sometimes we'll clarify things or errata the class or incorporate new ways for newer classes like the swashbuckler, but other times those options will be covered by archetypes.
My goal for this book was to make sure that ALL of the core classes would have several choices to play with, and then to expand out to make sure as many other class options are supported with fun stuff as well.
Overall, the amount of reprinted material in this book is comparable to a bestiary (about 1/3, often with new art and new flavor/clarifications as mentioned above)
As for specific questions about how specific elements were handled for specific groups... that type of exact revelation isn't appropriate yet, as the book is still being finalized and prepared for the printer; things can still change, in other words. This type of more detailed revelation is something we do in previews as the time for the book's actual release draws near.
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I'm actually a little sad we aren't getting more 'fluff'.. but I'll live. :]It's flavor, not fluff.
For the record, I agree. The scare quotes around fluff were meant to imply that the term, while used frequently in this thread, is IMO inappropriate.
Unfortunately, that particular convention of punctuation isn't as widespread as I would like it to be. :]
And we're still going to be producing flavor in the forms of softcover campaign settings and adventures and player companions and all that, never fear!
Yay!
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If it's any help, CBD, I did my best to pack as much flavor as I could into my sections. ^_^
(Not to downplay the rules elements, of course. I'm excited for pretty much every part of this product to see release.)
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Thanks for the clarifications, Directorsaur! This is THE hardcover I anticipate most this year. This is something I have been waiting for and didn't even know it!
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Whether or not 50 some pages of prestige classes, 40 some pages of archetypes, and 60 some pages of other rules options will be enough to satisfy any one person's notion of there being enough crunch in the book is, ultimately, only something they can answer for themselves.
The book DOES have more rules content than flavor content, but it also has more flavor content than, books like Ultimate Combat or Advanced Class Guide does.
I'm sure now this book has evolved from "pass... e_e" to "why hasn't May come yet? TnT"
If the prestige classes are anywhere near the same level of quality as Paths of the Righteous, this'll be a must buy.
I might have missed it but are there any psychic casting based prestige classes or archetypes in this book? Any organisations with a psychic theme to them? Any Vudrani organisations?
Seems like this book has a good mix of crunch and flavour. :)