Pathfinder Player Companion: Healer's Handbook (PFRPG)

I would really love to see this book address the low channeling capability of cleric vs other classes. I love playing cleric, and I don't like resorting to playing paladin just to channel well!

great cover!

hoping to see more channeling options for clerics

Oh, yeah! Loving this one a lot! Bards, bards and more bards please!

Im honestly interested in the Angelfire Apostle, and the new description does ease my mind a bit more.

A feat for clerics that lest them use their wisdom mod for number of uses for channeling would be nice and maybe an improved version then lets you add your cha+wis mods for number of uses.

Generally, I don't tend to have much of an issue with the number of times they can Channel as much as how ineffective it tends to be overall.

Angelfire apostle sounds fairly intense!
Really not sure what to expect from it?

Very nice cover!

Interesting, I wonder if they update the 3.5 feat that allowed a person to add their level or something to their healing spell.It has been a while since I have looked at Complete Divine.

Paizo can not touch 3.5 material that's not in the SRD.

I would love more channel feats in general.

Quen Pah wrote:

Interesting, I wonder if they update the 3.5 feat that allowed a person to add their level or something to their healing spell.It has been a while since I have looked at Complete Divine.

Paizo can not touch 3.5 material that's not in the SRD.

That doesn't mean they can't come up with something similar.

Stuff to do with channel...

Complete Divine...

>_>

<_<

Divine Metamagic. There. I said it.

Which was awesome and outright briliant.
There, finished it.
:P

I would love a spell that summons a floating ball of healing positive energy that a cleric can move around like a flaming sphere but heals allies it contacts with

A feat for clerics that lest them use their wisdom mod for number of uses for channeling would be nice and maybe an improved version then lets you add your cha+wis mods for number of uses.

Or just a small edit on 'Extra Channel' that allows Clerics to double dip the feat if they want(Alchemists get Extra bombs, Paladins extra LoH multiple times so...)

Or just remove the level cap on the Cure spells. It will let a cleric get a bit more mileage out of CLW/CMW

Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:

Quen Pah wrote:

Interesting, I wonder if they update the 3.5 feat that allowed a person to add their level or something to their healing spell.It has been a while since I have looked at Complete Divine.

Paizo can not touch 3.5 material that's not in the SRD.

That doesn't mean they can't come up with something similar.

Like the Life Mystery revelation that removes the level cap on the Cure X Wounds spells.

Healing effect that otherwise functions like flaming sphere would be cool.

Fair point. I don't want the cleric to be outclassed in the healing arena.

Too late. It's called the life oracle. If that's in the party, the cleric is the back-up healer.

I have absolutely no problem with other classes being able to heal themselves. It's up there with 4th and 5th edition and having access to second winds or small rests. Everyone has their own pool. I don't know about other people's groups, but the players I'm always with REFUSE to play clerics because they don't want to be the healbot. They just want to be the murder hobo that gets the spotlight attention. No, I'm all for this. The cleric can finally be allowed to do something other than heal everyone up, and other people can use up their own resources instead of forcing the cleric to tax themself to empty, creating that 15 minute day once more.

Im a little bit on the fence. While I do agree that everyone having their own options to use their own resources and actions to heal themselves is cool, Im also of the opinion I think the game would be significantly more fun and challenging, and that healing would be much more interesting if the sheer number of ways and availability of healing where lessened.

Part of me would like to see Cure/Infernal Healing spells removed from all classes except Cleric and Paladin, with a few sprinkled in at later levels/higher level spells for a few other classes like Ranger and Druid. None for Witch, Alchemist, psychics, etc. . ., or if so handled very similar to Domain only spells.

Angelfire apostle sounds fairly intense!

Really not sure what to expect from it?

"Angelfire" seems like it could be more intense channeling...like people are currently asking. Very intriguing.

Angelfire sounds like holy flame that can heal your allies and harm enemies in a similar manner to using positive energy against undead. Like evil creatures can be harmed by angelfire and good are healed. Something of that nature perhaps. Or maybe it's just more intense channeling.

Or maybe it's ice based and hurts Inevitables?

It would be nice if something similar to Augmented Healing would be in this book.

Im a little bit on the fence. While I do agree that everyone having their own options to use their own resources and actions to heal themselves is cool, Im also of the opinion I think the game would be significantly more fun and challenging, and that healing would be much more interesting if the sheer number of ways and availability of healing where lessened.

Part of me would like to see Cure/Infernal Healing spells removed from all classes except Cleric and Paladin, with a few sprinkled in at later levels/higher level spells for a few other classes like Ranger and Druid. None for Witch, Alchemist, psychics, etc. . ., or if so handled very similar to Domain only spells.

I disagree with "fun", but it'd definitely be challenging. It'd be very 2e and 3e like. The problem is that other systems are carefree with their healing, and people are flocking towards that more nowadays. A lot of players refuse to have their characters move even a half inch if they're out or low on healing. While it kind of panders to those players than to the more hardcore who enjoy the idea of delving through 10 dungeon levels with no way to come back from the brink of death, if Paizo doesn't then they'll completely lose out on that demographic. Market wise, this is a good move.

That said, there's no reason why a group couldn't ignore this book altogether if the GM felt it took away from the challenge of the game.

A feat(or feats) that grants anyone a 1/day channel and/or lay on hands based on your character level would be awesome.

LoH one already exists. It's called Believer's Hands from the ACG.

LoH one already exists. It's called Believer's Hands from the ACG.

Yeah, but the requirements are difficult to achieve for most characters, and also needs a feat to attain it. Something more universal would be nice.

DM Beckett wrote:

Im a little bit on the fence. While I do agree that everyone having their own options to use their own resources and actions to heal themselves is cool, Im also of the opinion I think the game would be significantly more fun and challenging, and that healing would be much more interesting if the sheer number of ways and availability of healing where lessened.

Part of me would like to see Cure/Infernal Healing spells removed from all classes except Cleric and Paladin, with a few sprinkled in at later levels/higher level spells for a few other classes like Ranger and Druid. None for Witch, Alchemist, psychics, etc. . ., or if so handled very similar to Domain only spells.

I disagree with "fun", but it'd definitely be challenging. It'd be very 2e and 3e like. The problem is that other systems are carefree with their healing, and people are flocking towards that more nowadays. A lot of players refuse to have their characters move even a half inch if they're out or low on healing. While it kind of panders to those players than to the more hardcore who enjoy the idea of delving through 10 dungeon levels with no way to come back from the brink of death, if Paizo doesn't then they'll completely lose out on that demographic. Market wise, this is a good move.

That said, there's no reason why a group couldn't ignore this book altogether if the GM felt it took away from the challenge of the game.

By more fun, I meant for the healers themselves.

Im a little bit on the fence. While I do agree that everyone having their own options to use their own resources and actions to heal themselves is cool, Im also of the opinion I think the game would be significantly more fun and challenging, and that healing would be much more interesting if the sheer number of ways and availability of healing where lessened.

Part of me would like to see Cure/Infernal Healing spells removed from all classes except Cleric and Paladin, with a few sprinkled in at later levels/higher level spells for a few other classes like Ranger and Druid. None for Witch, Alchemist, psychics, etc. . ., or if so handled very similar to Domain only spells.

I disagree with "fun", but it'd definitely be challenging. It'd be very 2e and 3e like. The problem is that other systems are carefree with their healing, and people are flocking towards that more nowadays. A lot of players refuse to have their characters move even a half inch if they're out or low on healing. While it kind of panders to those players than to the more hardcore who enjoy the idea of delving through 10 dungeon levels with no way to come back from the brink of death, if Paizo doesn't then they'll completely lose out on that demographic. Market wise, this is a good move.

That said, there's no reason why a group couldn't ignore this book altogether if the GM felt it took away from the challenge of the game.

It wouldn't even be more challenging, the only result you get is that the party would be "cleric/paladin + 3 more classes" instead of "class capable of healing + 3 more classes"

kevin_video wrote:

DM Beckett wrote:

Im a little bit on the fence. While I do agree that everyone having their own options to use their own resources and actions to heal themselves is cool, Im also of the opinion I think the game would be significantly more fun and challenging, and that healing would be much more interesting if the sheer number of ways and availability of healing where lessened.

Part of me would like to see Cure/Infernal Healing spells removed from all classes except Cleric and Paladin, with a few sprinkled in at later levels/higher level spells for a few other classes like Ranger and Druid. None for Witch, Alchemist, psychics, etc. . ., or if so handled very similar to Domain only spells.

I disagree with "fun", but it'd definitely be challenging. It'd be very 2e and 3e like. The problem is that other systems are carefree with their healing, and people are flocking towards that more nowadays. A lot of players refuse to have their characters move even a half inch if they're out or low on healing. While it kind of panders to those players than to the more hardcore who enjoy the idea of delving through 10 dungeon levels with no way to come back from the brink of death, if Paizo doesn't then they'll completely lose out on that demographic. Market wise, this is a good move.

That said, there's no reason why a group couldn't ignore this book altogether if the GM felt it took away from the challenge of the game.

By more fun, I meant for the healers themselves.

Why would it be fun for a healer to be forced to play only one of two classes...? I mean, if they were planning on playing a cleric or a paladin already, good for them, but not really a change...

I'm really hoping the wizard archetype can be a serious healer. Not just one or two cure spells. I like healers but I really love arcane casters.

Perhaps something like Monte Cook's Iron Heroes. Every character has a pool of reserve HP that equals their max HP. They can draw upon the pool at a rate of, I forget, 1 a round or so. The pool replenishes when they rest and there is a feat that allows a PC to heal up to their level a round instead of 1.

That reserve HP idea originated in Unearthed Arcana for D&D 3.5.

I'm really hoping the wizard archetype can be a serious healer. Not just one or two cure spells. I like healers but I really love arcane casters.

There was a feat in 3.5 that gave you access to any cleric domain so long as you had the Wis score and the alignment of the deity. Most players I knew with a wizard or sorcerer took the Healing domain just to help out where they could. Another feat gave the ability to learn a spell from another arcane caster. A lot of people preferred this feat for the bard, but sometimes a wizard or sorcerer, or even beguiler and warmage, took the bard cure spells.

Hopefully we get something close to that. Make it the equivalent to becoming a specialist wizard or something.

Why would it be fun for a healer to be forced to play only one of two classes...? I mean, if they were planning on playing a cleric or a paladin already, good for them, but not really a change...

Because when everyone and their mother can do it, and sometimes just outright better, it becomes a lot less meaningful or important. A wand of Cure Light Wounds and/or Infernal Healing is cheap, and it feels like the Pathfinder mindset is that you can basically pick them up at Walmart.

What used to be miraculous is in Pathfinder almost redundant.

Luthorne wrote:

Why would it be fun for a healer to be forced to play only one of two classes...? I mean, if they were planning on playing a cleric or a paladin already, good for them, but not really a change...

Because when everyone and their mother can do it, and sometimes just outright better, it becomes a lot less meaningful or important. A wand of Cure Light Wounds and/or Infernal Healing is cheap, and it feels like the Pathfinder mindset is that you can basically pick them up at Walmart.

What used to be miraculous is in Pathfinder almost redundant.

There was something in 3.0 that said commoners earn 1 sp/day. Most of that would likely go toward living expenses. So the average commoner would likely not be able to afford a Shortsword, let alone even the cheapest magic items. Even the lowest level adventurers begin with a lot of gold and equipment. Whether they got that by purchasing it or as a gift is another matter.

Luthorne wrote:

Why would it be fun for a healer to be forced to play only one of two classes...? I mean, if they were planning on playing a cleric or a paladin already, good for them, but not really a change...

Because when everyone and their mother can do it, and sometimes just outright better, it becomes a lot less meaningful or important. A wand of Cure Light Wounds and/or Infernal Healing is cheap, and it feels like the Pathfinder mindset is that you can basically pick them up at Walmart.

What used to be miraculous is in Pathfinder almost redundant.

I'm just not sure people playing rock paper scissors, loser has to play a cleric, is a significant improvement. Frankly, I feel like if any class is mandatory and someone needs to play one regardless of whether or not anyone wants to play one...that's a sign of bad design. A class should be played because a player thinks it would be fun to play it, not because the system essentially forces them to do so. If the class isn't fun to play - or at least, most don't view it as fun to play - that may be an issue with the class itself, rather than the system.

Though I also tend to think that hit point restoration is the least important part of healing...given the number of debilitating conditions out there. Which is, unsurprisingly, where the cleric does excel, given that they can prepare virtually any condition-removal spell as need be...especially that pesky dead condition.

A healing focused summoner would be awesome. Also a positive energy based eidolon would be cool.

I'm still curious as to what new mercies a paladin might have... I mean would they still be mercies IF they're more like buffs?

I am also curious about what the new mercies will be like.

I am also curious about what the new mercies will be like.

If Cayden Cailean had Paladins, they'd totally have a Mercy that freed you from bonds or restraints, and another that made you not quite so drunk in a hurry...

And if he had Anti-Paladins, they'd have a 'Mercy' that made you drunk, or made you get all entangled in your own clothing.

Dragon78 wrote:

I am also curious about what the new mercies will be like.

If Cayden Cailean had Paladins, they'd totally have a Mercy that freed you from bonds or restraints, and another that made you not quite so drunk in a hurry...

And if he had Anti-Paladins, they'd have a 'Mercy' that made you drunk, or made you get all entangled in your own clothing.

Speaking of, I would like to see a CG pally atchetype similar to 3.5's Holy Liberator.

Set wrote:

Dragon78 wrote:

I am also curious about what the new mercies will be like.

If Cayden Cailean had Paladins, they'd totally have a Mercy that freed you from bonds or restraints, and another that made you not quite so drunk in a hurry...

And if he had Anti-Paladins, they'd have a 'Mercy' that made you drunk, or made you get all entangled in your own clothing.

Speaking of, I would like to see a CG pally atchetype similar to 3.5's Holy Liberator.

I'd be happy with seeing the OGL conversion of the 3.5 CG Paladin of Freedom. (I'd also be thrilled to see the LE Paladin of Tyranny at some point too.)

DeciusNero wrote:

Set wrote:

Dragon78 wrote:

I am also curious about what the new mercies will be like.

If Cayden Cailean had Paladins, they'd totally have a Mercy that freed you from bonds or restraints, and another that made you not quite so drunk in a hurry...

And if he had Anti-Paladins, they'd have a 'Mercy' that made you drunk, or made you get all entangled in your own clothing.

Speaking of, I would like to see a CG pally atchetype similar to 3.5's Holy Liberator.

I'd be happy with seeing the OGL conversion of the 3.5 CG Paladin of Freedom. (I'd also be thrilled to see the LE Paladin of Tyranny at some point too.)

Didn't we get that last one in Ultimate Intrigue?

Didn't we get that last one in Ultimate Intrigue?

Something you could consider "close enough", yeah. They also had detect chaos and some of the enchantment spells were added to their list. The 3pp version done by Necromancers of the Northwest is considered closer.

Set,

I don't think Cayden allows for CE followers... Now Calistra! Yes.

Also I keep wondering if they are buffs, can you really call them mercies.

Mercies seem to be about removing hindering conditions, not about buffing existing people.

The new mercies could be things that let a character ignore things like Difficult Terrain that aren't effects on the character directly.

Well, currently the paladin's mercies cover: blinded, cursed, dazed, deafened, diseased, exhausted, fatigued, frightened, nauseated, paralyzed, poisoned, shaken, sickened, staggered, and stunned.

This could still leave room for: confused, cowering, dazzled, energy drain, entangled, fascinated, or petrified. Additionally, an option to remove ability damage and, at higher levels, drain, would be nice. Technically there's still conditions like flat-footed, grappled, or prone, but it seems unlikely a mercy would cover those.

I would love mercies that cover ability damage, ability drain, confusion, energy drain, petrified, and various fear effects.

I hope Evil gets some nice healing abilities too (is Evil Angelfire Apostle even doable ?)

Much interested in any ability that would help you trade HPs for bonus to hit or damage (and the other way around too). Hope that this is what "harnessing your own vigor in the heat of battle" entails :-)