Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Advanced Race Guide (OGL)

...could anyone divulge age categories, height and weight for Sylphs, please?

Anyone who could tell me what the idea/flavor of the Shigenjo Oracle archetype for Tengus is? Any other nice feat and/or trait support for them?

It looks like the Grippli got the Aquaman end of the stick when it comes to archetypes :/

Tell me there's more to it than just swim speed and amphibian. Alchemists can already cast Alter Self, and the Beastmorph Alchemist appends it to his mutagens.

I'm a big Grippli fan (and quite partial to Vanara), I hope there's some gems there at least.

They're an uncommon race, so they only got one archetype, a spell, and a few things of equipment. Most of the uncommon races look like the "aquaman," to be honest. If anything, I'm just glad that those races made it in at all.

I am going to hope that the Paizo boys and girls would consider another Advance Race Guide considering the positive reactions that people gave to this current one. They could very easily skip the core races and focus on the Featured Races and Uncommon Races, as well as add whatever new racial options ends up creeping along (James Jacobs already hinted that there are going to be several new 0-Hit Dice races in the Inner Sea Bestiary).

If anyone was wondering, Drow Nobles did get left out of this book. If I had to guess, their flavor is almost exactly the same as drow (we're drow, but BETTER!) and when you get the book you'll note that there is a huge feat chain that basically turns your drow into a drow noble, sans the extra ability modifiers.

Got it.

I'm still trying to sneak in some time to give it the full read-through, but so far I've got pretty mixed feelings.

I have to admit, the big thing I was hoping for outside the race-building rules didn't make it. It ran in the exact opposite direction in fact. I probably shouldn't have gotten my hopes up to start with, but the Orc entry was the first thing I went to. Just can't win with Golarion material or setting neutral material it seems. :( I guess that means that hope is shot down for good. I get that the guys in charge of the setting don't like the idea of non-evil orcs and don't want to support it, but couldn't we have had them in the setting-neutral stuff? All that flavor written up, and it was just a repeat of Orcs of Golarion.

I really, really like the redeemer. I've got a lot more to say about this one when I do a full read-through, but this one feels "more paladin than paladin" in a lot of ways.

The art here tends towards awesome.

To be completely fair, 99% of the fluff is rehash from other books. As it should be. This line is setting's neutral, so it has to portray the most commonly available stereotypes of a given race. You want good orcs? Write good orcs into your game!

...could anyone divulge age categories, height and weight for Sylphs, please?

I'm afraid I don't have time to give you the exact tables before I go to work, but I can give you the averages.

Sylph males have an average height of 6' 1" and an average weight of 150 lbs.

Sylph females have an average height of 5' 9" and an average weight of 130 lbs.

Middle Age is 150. Old is 200. Venerable is 250.

I have to admit, the big thing I was hoping for outside the race-building rules didn't make it. It ran in the exact opposite direction in fact. I probably shouldn't have gotten my hopes up to start with, but the Orc entry was the first thing I went to. Just can't win with Golarion material or setting neutral material it seems. :( I guess that means that hope is shot down for good. I get that the guys in charge of the setting don't like the idea of non-evil orcs and don't want to support it, but couldn't we have had them in the setting-neutral stuff? All that flavor written up, and it was just a repeat of Orcs of Golarion.

I've noticed for a "setting neutral" world the ARG still tends to make some pretty strong assumptions for how certain races should behave.

Tangential, but my homebrew world, NO humanoid races are always-any-alignment. There are broad trends amongst different groups of course, and cultures can have benevolent or harmful traditions, but it is a core assumption that if you are sentient, you have free will, and thus individuals' behaviors will vary widely. Orcs in particular are a major race in one of my world's nations--it is a brutal nasty magocratic nation (because of the dominant human culture), but as much as you could see a brutal slavering barbaric orc, you could also see an orc freedom fighter, etc.

If you play PBPs and wouldn't mind putting up with me as a GM, Mikaze, if I ever run a PBP here you're welcome to play as benevolent (or even just neutral) orc or half-orc as you like.

To be fair most evil races are Ussually or Often Chaotic Evil* and the only always chaotic evil races are Outsider and Undead, stuff literally made of evil.

Most often evil races have societies that raise their young that way, goblins lock their young in a cave so they cannibalize each other to survive. Other have a diferent morality like orcs who live for combat and put little regard for life, theirs of others, still evil, but not from their point of view.

Humbly,
Yawar

*naming the trope, not the alingment

"These are orcs. They have green skin."

And then some people rage that

NOT ALL ORCS HAVE GREEN SKIN. SCREW YOU AND YOUR STRONG PRESUMPTIONS ABOUT THE RACE. THIS IS MEANT TO BE SETTING NEUTRAL!

So they shorten it to

These are orcs.

Man, a strongly neutral write up a race would be boring.

For the Shigenjo oracle archtype at 7th level you gain Ki that can used for oracle related powers/spells, 15th level quivering palm, 20th level you get tongues, you reicarnate 3 days after you die, and can ignore extreme weather, exhaustion, starvation, thirst for a number of days equal to your wisdom score.

If you play PBPs and wouldn't mind putting up with me as a GM, Mikaze, if I ever run a PBP here you're welcome to play as benevolent (or even just neutral) orc or half-orc as you like.

Hey, I'd like in on this if it ever happens :).

Shigenjo Oracle sounds really cool. My campaign world is a curious mix of PF lore and cities and kingdoms/figures etc and stuff I've created. For example, my entire 'Dragon Lands' continent is ruled by 1 human king, 1 dragon and 3 great sages. Shigenjo Oracle sounds perfect for the 'Tengu Sage of the West' >_<

THIS BOOK CANNOT SHIP FAST ENOUGH. It looks like it's shaping up to be (for me) the greatest release yet. I literally cannot wait. Checking my email once every 10-30 minutes >_<

Also, whenever I join a group as a player, I now want to play several Dwarves and Half-Orcs and Elves, which is rare since I usually don't touch those races. And the Redeemer Paladin alone sounds so awesome.

I refuse to buy this book at this point in time.

ask me again next year.

So... how about now? :)

*refreshes email.. dangit.*

Still wondering what slyphs get.

*refreshes email... blast it!*

Steelfiredragon wrote:

I refuse to buy this book at this point in time.

ask me again next year.

So... how about now? :)

He might not answer, you're about 10 hours too early... It hasn't been a full year yet. Of course it was a leap year, so maybe its 14 hours past... Huh.

*refreshes email.. dangit.*

Still wondering what slyphs get.

*refreshes email... blast it!*

I feel your pain. Between planning for a campaign, trying to have all options available for my players from the start and just wanting the book, I'm with you on the constant refreshing of my email while speculating on certain racial benefits.

*refreshes email.. dangit.*

Still wondering what slyphs get.

*refreshes email... blast it!*

hope this helps with wondering what they get

I wonder what the chances of Paizo putting out an 'Advanced Race Guide 2' is? The uncommon races could really benefit from having a lot more information.

For example, I can see the Kitsune at least deserving their own sorcerer bloodline. I would imagine it would have a modified version of one of those Kitsune Star Gems as a bonded item and its own 'nine tails' progression without having to take the magical tail feat 8 times. That race's flavor has barely been tapped at all, and the same goes for many of the other Dragon Empires races.

I wonder what the chances of Paizo putting out an 'Advanced Race Guide 2' is? The uncommon races could really benefit from having a lot more information...

Granted I still haven't gotten my copy yet, but I would love an "Advanced Race Guide 2" specifically for more info on the uncommon races. I would almost say leave the core races out and just concentrate specifically on the rest. It might never happen, but it's not a bad idea.

-Kcinlive

I would imagine that it wouldn't be the wisest business decision to focus an entire hardcover book on the, by definition, uncommon races. These are the races that people very rarely play. It'd be like releasing an entire book dedicated to NPC classes, IMO.

On the topic of Kitsune, I know that Zombie Sky Press has a book on kitsune. My japan-ophile friend thinks its a lot closer to the original mythos, so might be worth checking out.

True, true. I suppose if we wait long enough Paizo will come out with a pathfinder companion book for those races. If not there is always the 3rd books. I'll have to check them out.

I would still buy ARG2 though.

-Kcinlive

I would imagine that it wouldn't be the wisest business decision to focus an entire hardcover book on the, by definition, uncommon races. These are the races that people very rarely play. It'd be like releasing an entire book dedicated to NPC classes, IMO.

On the topic of Kitsune, I know that Zombie Sky Press has a book on kitsune. My japan-ophile friend thinks its a lot closer to the original mythos, so might be worth checking out.

Yea, this might be the unfortunate truth. The best we can probably hope for is a player companion book with more info on the Dragon Empires races.

I have seen that kitsune book btw, and I have been tempted to get it. For better or worse though, my GM likes to stick to the core rules and I'm not sure that the group I'm GMing needs more kitsune stuff.

I think an advanced races guide 2 which delves into some more of the personality and lore behind the uncommon races would be really cool. Or of course they could rename it so that it fits better with just focusing on the 'misfits', 'fringe races' and 'uncommon races'.

About these races being uncommon though, I think it's more that they're 'uncommon' in the world as adventurers, cause I know every player I have ever met dating back to the beginning of 3rd edition have always wanted to play a variety of races that would fall under 'uncommon' in this book.

More info/options for them would be awesome though (do NOT get me wrong, I still will love this book when I get it. I have literally been counting the days for a few months now).

What about the Slyph archetypes?

The Sylph Sky Druid is probably my favorite archetype in the book. It's exactly the Druid I've always wanted to play.

as far as the Kitsune go, they're a core race in the Dragon Empires... The Elves, Dwarves, Halflings etc are the non-core races in Tian Xia.

Me wants ARG 2 with Distant Worlds races. Like that badly.

as far as the Kitsune go, they're a core race in the Dragon Empires... The Elves, Dwarves, Halflings etc are the non-core races in Tian Xia.

And Tian Xia is the non-core setting ;)

Building on what others have said.

I believe the 'expansion races' should be covered in Campaign setting specific products. IOW, Golarion Slyphs, Rite Publishing's "Kitsune of Questhaven" Dreamscarred's "Psionic Duergar".

Same thing for Distant Worlds races, a big campaign specific book. :-)

While there will always be more bestiaries, I don't want to see, APG2, ARG2, Ultimater magic, eic etc.

True, but it would still be cool to have a hardcover book with expanded info for all of them instead a bunch of different books from different lines.

EDIT: And I for one would LOVE to see a APG2 with more options and new classes, and I would be okay with an UC2 or UM2. I know most people didn't like them but I actually loved most of the options presented and found a lot of use from the other sections. I suppose most people just don't like to actually make use of all the info the books gave and prefer to keep things simple.

They could come out with a Kitsune Prestige Class

Reading through mine now. Like the elf magus archtype, wish it was half elf too.

Typically, only members of the section’s race can take the listed archetype, bloodline, or order, though such options rarely interact with the racial traits or alternate racial traits of that race.

Elf Blood: Half-elves count as both elves and humans for any effect related to race.

Between the "typically" statement in the ARG and the "any" statement of Elf Blood, I would say that all the human and elf archetypes can apply to half elves as well.

Between the "typically" statement in the ARG and the "any" statement of Elf Blood, I would say that all the human and elf archetypes can apply to half elves as well.

This is true, I was looking at half elves thinking of going into the drow noble feat lines... Specifically the drow paragon just says that it deals with the 'drow casting' stuff. It implies the part of actually being drow is taken care of.

thomrenault wrote:

as far as the Kitsune go, they're a core race in the Dragon Empires... The Elves, Dwarves, Halflings etc are the non-core races in Tian Xia.

And Tian Xia is the non-core setting ;)

Funny, I thought Golarion was the core setting... and that Avistan and Tian-Xia existed simultaneously on that planet...

EDIT: Though technically, I don't suppose any of the "setting" is "core" because it isn't in the CRB.

I think the term "core" refers solely to options in the CRB.

Tian Xia and Avistan are part of the Pathfinder Campaign Setting (not 'core'). As are Arcadia, Casmaron, and Sarusan. PathfinderWiki covers it all... there are even Other planets

I suppose I should've said that the Inner Sea is by and far their main focus, not Tian Xia.

Reckless wrote:

Between the "typically" statement in the ARG and the "any" statement of Elf Blood, I would say that all the human and elf archetypes can apply to half elves as well.

This is true, I was looking at half elves thinking of going into the drow noble feat lines... Specifically the drow paragon just says that it deals with the 'drow casting' stuff. It implies the part of actually being drow is taken care of.

I wouldn't interpret it that way. Consider that in the Advanced Player's Guide there are feats that are allowed for Elves (e.g. Elven Accuracy), for Half-Elves (e.g. Shared Insight), and explicitly for both (e.g. Arcane Talent). If I were a GM, I'd be really annoyed with a player who wanted their Half-Elf to have Elven Accuracy. I'm fine with a character whose backstory includes both human and elven ancestors and who takes Elven Accuracy as a feat, so long as they use Elven mechanics for the whole build, but the player doesn't get to say "'Elven magic' is useless for my archer character and -2 Con +2 Int is also bad, so I'll pick Half-Elf, but that Elven racial ability is sweet so I'll take that too."

Or, another way, I don't think that "effects" in "effect related to race" mean feats or other factors in the character-building process, but rather stuff that happens in game, such as if you're hit by an arrow of elf-slaying, or if you're fighting a ranger whose favoured enemy is elves.

Half-Elf shouldn't be a "gestalt" race that gets to use human, elf, or half-elf mechanics in different parts of the build depending on which is optimal.

I suppose I should've said that the Inner Sea is by and far their main focus, not Tian Xia.

I just like to sneak in references to the Pathfinder Wiki on occasion because it's a great resource.

Half-Elf shouldn't be a "gestalt" race that gets to use human, elf, or half-elf mechanics in different parts of the build depending on which is optimal.

It is though, or that was my understanding of it. There just hasn't been anything super good that was human only or elf only.

This book adds a bit of power/versatility to half-elves, and I'm not so sure it's a problem.

Here is a question, could a half-elf taken elven racial traits that swap out elven immunity.

Half-elves don't get anything that lets them make that swap normally.

edit:Doh nevermind it's a feat Elven spirit.

edit edit:nevermind^2 that's for a elven magic which the feat grants.

What is the Duegar Archetype?

What is the Duegar Archetype?

Gray Disciple (Monk)

Got my email a couple of hours ago (18 hours after I subscribed :O).

Can I just say this is far and away the greatest tabletop RPG book I've ever read? And my DnD group in High School had every 3.X book between us, one of us had some 2e DnD books stored away and in another group we had every 4e book (I hated it but they were into it and some DnD/Table top RPG>Nothing), so I think I know what I'm talking about.

Seriously. So many awesome and flavorful options. I have literally never wanted to make so many different characters and sometimes even like 3 or 4 characters from a single race. Fantastic job guys, fantastic job. Bravo. Literally cannot praise this enough.

Got my email a couple of hours ago (18 hours after I subscribed :O).

Can I just say this is far and away the greatest tabletop RPG book I've ever read? And my DnD group in High School had every 3.X book between us, one of us had some 2e DnD books stored away and in another group we had every 4e book (I hated it but they were into it and some DnD/Table top RPG>Nothing), so I think I know what I'm talking about.

Seriously. So many awesome and flavorful options. I have literally never wanted to make so many different characters and sometimes even like 3 or 4 characters from a single race. Fantastic job guys, fantastic job. Bravo. Literally cannot praise this enough.

The best praise comes from subscribing to all the Pathfinder lines. Or sending me money, either or is fine by me. :)

Got my email a couple of hours ago (18 hours after I subscribed :O).

Curses! *shakes fist* I still haven't gotten my email!

-Kcinlive

Petty Alchemy wrote:

It looks like the Grippli got the Aquaman end of the stick when it comes to archetypes :/

Tell me there's more to it than just swim speed and amphibian. Alchemists can already cast Alter Self, and the Beastmorph Alchemist appends it to his mutagens.

I'm a big Grippli fan (and quite partial to Vanara), I hope there's some gems there at least.

They're an uncommon race, so they only got one archetype, a spell, and a few things of equipment. Most of the uncommon races look like the "aquaman," to be honest. If anything, I'm just glad that those races made it in at all.

I am going to hope that the Paizo boys and girls would consider another Advance Race Guide considering the positive reactions that people gave to this current one. They could very easily skip the core races and focus on the Featured Races and Uncommon Races, as well as add whatever new racial options ends up creeping along (James Jacobs already hinted that there are going to be several new 0-Hit Dice races in the Inner Sea Bestiary).

I meant specifically that their archetype doesn't sound very special or useful at all. I knew Grippli weren't going to get too much love (though I've yet to actually see the content), I guess perhaps the best thing is that with their inclusion, more GMs might be open to the idea of me playing one.

And I personally would've loved to see the core races excluded from this book (using the space and time for the rarer races), but I understand that the two big things for most buyers are probably the core races and the DIY Race Creator.

Do the hobgoblins get anything?

Do the hobgoblins get anything?

Yes. Archetypes, feats, magic items, and spells, they're one of the tier-2 races in the book. Their archetypes are a fear-and-trampling cavalier and a monk with natural armor. They have a feat chain involving inspiring their allies through fear.

And the hobgoblin stuff is pretty cool, to boot ;)

So -- Is there any chance that anyone who has the book would be kind enough to drop a few crumbs for those of us who can't get it until late next week? I am really curious to find out more about that Half-Elf Summoner archetype, the Wild Caller. What are the general trade-offs made by that archetype?

looks at the past few pages

Nope, no one is kind enough to drop some crumbs.

They don't lose much. They're more in-tune with the natural world, and there eidolons reflect that. They have a restricted evolution list, and that's the main trade-off.