RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I really hope they never print spells like that... They were the biggest mistake of D&D 3.5... They were off the hook power-level wise. Many of them bypassed spell resistance.. Many of them bypassed Saving Throws, too...Looked over the Sorcerer/Wizard spells and was a bit disappointed there wasn’t a Pathfinder equivalent (or at least close) to the orb spells.
So what you mean is, I want wizards to get slaughtered by anything with evasion, SR or high saving throws, right?
The orbs could use a conversion; make them higher level, but keep them the way they were...
We'd better get rid of incorporeal, since it's not fair to those poor monks.
And better get rid of damage reduction on sneak attack immune critters. Don't want the rogue to cry.
There are already lots of 'anti-evasion' spells. There are lots of 'SR ignoring spells. That you choose to assign movites to others in saying they 'want wizards to get slaughtered by anything with evasion, SR or high saving throws, right?' would seem to say more about you than them.
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I'm a trapaholic :-) Anything new on traps? I read the ranger gets a trapmaking ability? New spells to handle magic traps, new abilities, more characters get some sort of trapfinding ability?
Still waiting for my hardcopy, it hasn't reached the Netherlands yet.
Yeah the ranger gets some trap options now.
The solution is to not throw damaging spells at those sort of characters. You have so many options as a wizard that having to pick and choose who you throw fireballs at isn't the end of the world.
Fireball was only an example that I used. My point is ‘most’ damaging spells have the descriptor “Reflex Half”. And sorry, the “you just don’t throw damaging spells at those sort of characters” does not fly for me. If your specialty is damaging spells and you have a low amount of spells available (not everyone is a Wizard), then you don’t have much choice in the matter.
Further, that kind of spell just invalidates a bunch of class features that other characters invest in. I know if I was playing a rogue and have a bunch of class features and abilities based on avoiding getting blasted in the face I would feel cheated if the wizard could just blast me in the face anyway, albeit with an orb instead of a fireball.
Oh come now. Now you are just overreacting a bit there. We are talking about one spell type (orbs). At least 90% of the damage spells (or any reflex save spell) you are still going to have plenty opportunities to use your evasion abilities.
Besides, it isn’t as if the orbs are auto hits, anyways. And even though it’s only against a touch AC, characters who have the evasion feats and high reflex saves ‘usually’ are the same ones who have high touch AC’s, as well. Nevermind a single class Wizard/Sorcerer is not going to have that high of a bonus to hit. So the orb spells far ‘invalidates’ those abilities.
The solution is to not throw damaging spells at those sort of characters. You have so many options as a wizard that having to pick and choose who you throw fireballs at isn't the end of the world.Fireball was only an example that I used. My point is ‘most’ damaging spells have the descriptor “Reflex Half”. And sorry, the “you just don’t throw damaging spells at those sort of characters” does not fly for me. If your specialty is damaging spells and you have a low amount of spells available (not everyone is a Wizard), then you don’t have much choice in the matter.
Further, that kind of spell just invalidates a bunch of class features that other characters invest in. I know if I was playing a rogue and have a bunch of class features and abilities based on avoiding getting blasted in the face I would feel cheated if the wizard could just blast me in the face anyway, albeit with an orb instead of a fireball.Oh come now. Now you are just overreacting a bit there. We are talking about one spell type (orbs). At least 90% of the damage spells (or any reflex save spell) you are still going to have plenty opportunities to use your evasion abilities.
Besides, it isn’t as if the orbs are auto hits, anyways. And even though it’s only against a touch AC, characters who have the evasion feats and high reflex saves ‘usually’ are the same ones who have high touch AC’s, as well. Nevermind a single class Wizard/Sorcerer is not going to have that high of a bonus to hit. So the orb spells far ‘invalidates’ those abilities.
What does any of this have to do with spoilers?
Focus people, focus. :)
I have some questions I'm hoping someone might know a thing or two about.
Wizard Arch types - What are they?
Wizard toys - anything jump out as super cool?
Arcane Discoveries... how do they work?
Thanks.
So one thing I noticed is that for the Witch patron Ancestors, the final spell 'Choose Fate' is not described anywhere in UM, the APG or Core. Wondering if this was something taken out at the last minute or not.
Yes. I thought about starting an errata thread but I wasn't sure I wanted to spoil the fun. Most people haven't even gotten the pdf's yet and no one have gotten their hardcovers.
This book is so filled with possibilities that it boggles the mind. Heck, even Rangers making traps.
I do have a major gripe though : there are zero new cantrips/orisons. Come to think of it, there have been very few cantrip/orisons in PFRPG products except for the CRB.
The zero-level spells are wonderful for giving a real magical flavor to characters at all level and can be quite useful for low-level casters, multi-class characters and Rogues with the minor magic talent. Also they reward ingenuity rather than raw power.
I am quite disappointed that no-one thought that they were worth the effort to include in the ultimate book about magic in the PFRPG system :-(
There is some resistance to adding new 0-level spells to the game because it means wizards get all of them automatically, which is a little unfair to classes with a limited number of spells known (bard, oracle, sorc, etc.).
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So anything else good for summoners? I think I am going to have to get a subscription before the next book as much as I love to buy local.
New evolutions, 4 new archetypes as mentioned, plus a cool segment on how to represent various monsters as eidolons.
I'm still waiting to see what kind of stuff people will do with Crossblooded, Empyreal, and Sage sorcs.
The first let's you cherry pick features from two bloodlines, including getting both arcana, though at a price.
The second two change the Sorcs primary stat to Wis and Int, respectively.
Interesting stuff for sure.
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There is some resistance to adding new 0-level spells to the game because it means wizards get all of them automatically, which is a little unfair to classes with a limited number of spells known (bard, oracle, sorc, etc.).
But isn't that part of the point of choosing between prepared casters vs. spontaneous casters? A wizard has the ability to gain all the spells of on his list, that's part of the character. And just because spont casters have to pick and choose what spells they get doesn't mean they don't want more. I mean, seriously, that's class basics.
I usually prefer spont casters over prepared casters, but that in no way makes me want less cantrips/orisons just because I can't have them all. More choices means more chances to fill out flavor. A lot of the current 0-lvl spells I don't really care about, as they don't fit my chars' flavor, more varied 0-lvl is a good thing.
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Just made a thread about the No Orb Spells/etc. issue so if people wanna have that debate, they can do it there. Er... HERE.
Of course no one has to listen but I'd rather talk about what IS in my shiny new PDF on this thread.
-Drillboss
Yikes.
Thanatopic Spell (Metamagic)
Your spells can pierce wards against negative energy and even affect undead targets.
Prerequisites: Knowledge (religion) 6 ranks, Spell Focus (necromancy).
Benefit: A thanatopic spell pierces defenses and immunities that protect against death effects, negative levels, and energy drain, affecting the target as if the protective barrier did not exist.
For example, you could cast a thanatopic vampiric touch or enervation spell on a target under the effects of death ward, and the target would suffer the normal effect of the spell. Saving throws and SR (if any) still apply.
Eep! My players are going to be rather unhappy with this one :)
Beckman, I am not going to respond to your argument as this is just not the place for it. It is for discussion on Ultimate Magic.
At the time I made the original comment about the orbs, it was relevant due to it was a disappointment for something I did not see (or something equivalent) in the UM book. It was not intended to spawn a discussion on why orbs should or shouldn’t be in PF.
I will just end by saying that while I respect your opinion, it is not one I agree with.
There is some resistance to adding new 0-level spells to the game because it means wizards get all of them automatically, which is a little unfair to classes with a limited number of spells known (bard, oracle, sorc, etc.).But isn't that part of the point of choosing between prepared casters vs. spontaneous casters? A wizard has the ability to gain all the spells of on his list, that's part of the character. And just because spont casters have to pick and choose what spells they get doesn't mean they don't want more. I mean, seriously, that's class basics.
I didn't say that *I* was part of that resistance. :)
Hey!
Cape of Wasps
...
You summon a wasp swarm (Bestiary 275), which fills your space (up to 5 feet by 5 feet) but does not attack you. The dense cloud of vermin gives you partial concealment against ranged attacks. Any creature that makes a successful melee attack against you takes 2d6 points of swarm damage and poison from the wasp swarm, but is not affected by the swarm’s distraction ability. As a free action on your turn, you may have the swarm cling to you tightly, giving you a fly speed of 20 feet (poor maneuverability); when using the swarm to fly, it does not provide concealment or harm creatures that strike you. You can return the swarm to its protective shape as a free action on your turn.
Gee, that sounds eerily familiar :) Very cool.
Funny, if I had it to do over again, that's exactly what I was thinking - partial concealment vs. ranged attacks.
Though I do like spiders better, they're creepier.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I didn't say that *I* was part of that resistance. :)There is some resistance to adding new 0-level spells to the game because it means wizards get all of them automatically, which is a little unfair to classes with a limited number of spells known (bard, oracle, sorc, etc.).But isn't that part of the point of choosing between prepared casters vs. spontaneous casters? A wizard has the ability to gain all the spells of on his list, that's part of the character. And just because spont casters have to pick and choose what spells they get doesn't mean they don't want more. I mean, seriously, that's class basics.
I'd just include in the 'big book of zero level spells' that these spells are not commonly found in the starting wizards spellbook. Bam, done. :-)
I like zero level spells.
(the other side is, the wizard's book eventually weights 250 lbs at first level from all the zero level spells in it.)
I didn't say that *I* was part of that resistance. :)There is some resistance to adding new 0-level spells to the game because it means wizards get all of them automatically, which is a little unfair to classes with a limited number of spells known (bard, oracle, sorc, etc.).But isn't that part of the point of choosing between prepared casters vs. spontaneous casters? A wizard has the ability to gain all the spells of on his list, that's part of the character. And just because spont casters have to pick and choose what spells they get doesn't mean they don't want more. I mean, seriously, that's class basics.I'd just include in the 'big book of zero level spells' that these spells are not commonly found in the starting wizards spellbook. Bam, done. :-)
I like zero level spells.
(the other side is, the wizard's book eventually weights 250 lbs at first level from all the zero level spells in it.)
I agree a simple statement that only 0 level spell in the CRB are included in the beginning spell book would suffice. One of the great role playing angles of a wizard is searching for new spells.
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Yikes.
Eep! My players are going to be rather unhappy with this one :)Thanatopic Spell (Metamagic)
Your spells can pierce wards against negative energy and even affect undead targets.
Prerequisites: Knowledge (religion) 6 ranks, Spell Focus (necromancy).
Benefit: A thanatopic spell pierces defenses and immunities that protect against death effects, negative levels, and energy drain, affecting the target as if the protective barrier did not exist.
For example, you could cast a thanatopic vampiric touch or enervation spell on a target under the effects of death ward, and the target would suffer the normal effect of the spell. Saving throws and SR (if any) still apply.
I think Carrion crown just got scarier
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I have some questions I'm hoping someone might know a thing or two about.
Wizard Arch types - What are they?
Wizard toys - anything jump out as super cool?
Arcane Discoveries... how do they work?
Thanks.
Scrollmaster is their only new archetype.
The Discoveries are pretty neat, just wish there was more. :) They also get two new elemental schools. Metal and Wood.
They get 10 new discoveries. They take the place of feats wizards would get, or you could say they are very wizard specific feats.
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Is there a level adjustment on spells cast with this??Thanatopic Spell (Metamagic)
Your spells can pierce wards against negative energy and even affect undead targets.
Prerequisites: Knowledge (religion) 6 ranks, Spell Focus (necromancy).
Benefit: A thanatopic spell pierces defenses and immunities that protect against death effects, negative levels, and energy drain, affecting the target as if the protective barrier did not exist.
For example, you could cast a thanatopic vampiric touch or enervation spell on a target under the effects of death ward, and the target would suffer the normal effect of the spell. Saving throws and SR (if any) still apply.
I would assume +2, as that was the adjustment when it first showed up in the Osirion Player's Companion.
Though they did lower the Knowledge (religion) requirement from 10 to 6...
Is there a level adjustment on spells cast with this??Thanatopic Spell (Metamagic)
Your spells can pierce wards against negative energy and even affect undead targets.
Prerequisites: Knowledge (religion) 6 ranks, Spell Focus (necromancy).
Benefit: A thanatopic spell pierces defenses and immunities that protect against death effects, negative levels, and energy drain, affecting the target as if the protective barrier did not exist.
For example, you could cast a thanatopic vampiric touch or enervation spell on a target under the effects of death ward, and the target would suffer the normal effect of the spell. Saving throws and SR (if any) still apply.
Sure, it's +2. There were another 2-4 paragraphs; I just pasted the ones that made me go "Holy moley!"
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Yikes.
Eep! My players are going to be rather unhappy with this one :)Thanatopic Spell (Metamagic)
Your spells can pierce wards against negative energy and even affect undead targets.
Prerequisites: Knowledge (religion) 6 ranks, Spell Focus (necromancy).
Benefit: A thanatopic spell pierces defenses and immunities that protect against death effects, negative levels, and energy drain, affecting the target as if the protective barrier did not exist.
For example, you could cast a thanatopic vampiric touch or enervation spell on a target under the effects of death ward, and the target would suffer the normal effect of the spell. Saving throws and SR (if any) still apply.
Necromancers are gonna be happy about that...
Is there a level adjustment on spells cast with this??Thanatopic Spell (Metamagic)
Your spells can pierce wards against negative energy and even affect undead targets.
Prerequisites: Knowledge (religion) 6 ranks, Spell Focus (necromancy).
Benefit: A thanatopic spell pierces defenses and immunities that protect against death effects, negative levels, and energy drain, affecting the target as if the protective barrier did not exist.
For example, you could cast a thanatopic vampiric touch or enervation spell on a target under the effects of death ward, and the target would suffer the normal effect of the spell. Saving throws and SR (if any) still apply.I would assume +2, as that was the adjustment when it first showed up in the Osirion Player's Companion.
Though they did lower the Knowledge (religion) requirement from 10 to 6...
Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but that book came out before the core rulebook for Pathfinder RPG. It probably still went off of the old D&D 3.5 rule of max ranks in a class skill being 3 plus level instead of just your character level. Of course that would make a straight conversion 7 ranks instead of 6, but they probably thought 6 was better for whatever reason.
There is some resistance to adding new 0-level spells to the game because it means wizards get all of them automatically, which is a little unfair to classes with a limited number of spells known (bard, oracle, sorc, etc.).
If Oracles can get Oracle-only spells even though they otherwise share the Cleric spell-list, why can`t you put out some Sorceror-only Cantrips? Or if having Wizards UNABLE to Cast these is problematic, have them stated to not be included in standard Wizard starting Spellbooks, e.g. they must be learned and scribed from an outside source...?
If Oracles can get Oracle-only spells even though they otherwise share the Cleric spell-list, why can`t you put out some Sorceror-only Cantrips? Or if having Wizards UNABLE to Cast these is problematic, have them stated to not be included in standard Wizard starting Spellbooks, e.g. they must be learned and scribed from an outside source...?
Oracle-only spells exist because they rely on oracle-specific mechanics. For example, oracle's burden in the APG gives the target the negative aspects of your oracle curse. If you're a cleric, this has ZERO effect because the cleric class doesn't have a curse class feature, so it's not even on the cleric list. Likewise, mnemonic-enhancer is marked as "wizard only" because it alters how you prepare spells, and thus is useless to a sorcerer.
A sorcerer-only spell would thus have to do something involving a sorcerer-specific class feature, like a bloodline or spontaneous casting. I'm not saying we can't have sorcerer-only spells, but creating a balanced sorcerer-only cantrip won't be easy because of the disparity in power levels between cantrips and bloodline powers/arcana.
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why can`t you put out some Sorceror-only Cantrips?
Off the top of my head;
Ennoble Bloodline
School transmutation; Level Sor 0
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, F (a gift given to you by a creature of your bloodline type)
Range personal
Effect you
Duration 1 minute (special) (D)
You concentrate the power of your bloodline temporarily, gaining a bonus to your effective Sorcerer level equal to your Charisma modifier to the next use of one of your Bloodline Powers. Your sorcerous potential is channeled into this enhancement, and you cannot cast another Sorcerer spell until this effect is expended, either by use, by willing it to end as a standard action, or by the expiration of the effect at the end of the duration. This enhancement to effective caster level does not allow the sorcerer to access an ability that they are not yet otherwise capable of using.
Example: A 2nd level Aberrant Bloodline sorcerer with a Charisma score of 18 casts this cantrip. A single time in the next minute, she can use acidic ray as if she was actually 6th level (1d6+3 damage).
[Alternately, a stronger versions of this effect might allow the sorcerer to access bloodline powers at their higher effective level, so the example sorceress could choose to instead make a single use of long limbs, which wouldn't normally be available to her until 3rd level.]
Any one have a chance to look at the "binding outsiders" section. I'm curious as to what it updates/changes.
why can`t you put out some Sorceror-only Cantrips?Off the top of my head;
** spoiler omitted **
I'd be very, very cautious about letting an (at-will) cantrip boost, improve, repeat, or increase/give early access to abilities which are (1) more powerful than a cantrip, and/or (2) have limited uses per day.
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I'd be very, very cautious about letting an (at-will) cantrip boost, improve, repeat, or increase/give early access to abilities which are (1) more powerful than a cantrip, and/or (2) have limited uses per day.
Yeah, the example was just 'ooh, I spend an extra action to get +2 damage on my next use of acid ray,' but I'm sure some would try to 'explain' that one of the abilities that gains a number of rounds of use per day equal to Sorcerer level could be used infinitely by recasting the spell over and over again.
Obviously, that wouldn't work anymore than casting eagle's splendor five times in a day to get ten extra uses of channel energy would work, but I'm sure there are those who would argue otherwise.
I remember arguments in the CharOps forums about putting on and taking off one's Periapt of Wisdom to gain new bonus spells and Turn / Rebuke attempts, after having exhausted them, for a pretty much infinite supply of spells and T/R attempts, back in the day, so this cantrip would likely be like catnip to that crowd.
Druids get new Arch-types:
Menhir Servant
Storm Druid
I've been wondering what these do. Is the Menhir Savant the druid equivalent of a cloistered cleric? What does it get and what does it give up? And does the Storm Druid seem interesting?
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Its rather disapointing that there really wasn't any Special Sorceror only abilities.
Paladins got a whole slew of feats that improve thier class abilities.
From Dragonbane Aura to a Ranged Lay on hands.
Spontanous Metacasting is a nice boost for everyone who don't prepare spells.
I really wish Arcane Bloodline Sorcs could get Arcane Bolt instead of Arcane Bond if they wanted to...
There is some resistance to adding new 0-level spells to the game because it means wizards get all of them automatically, which is a little unfair to classes with a limited number of spells known (bard, oracle, sorc, etc.).This book is so filled with possibilities that it boggles the mind. Heck, even Rangers making traps.
I do have a major gripe though : there are zero new cantrips/orisons. Come to think of it, there have been very few cantrip/orisons in PFRPG products except for the CRB.
The zero-level spells are wonderful for giving a real magical flavor to characters at all level and can be quite useful for low-level casters, multi-class characters and Rogues with the minor magic talent. Also they reward ingenuity rather than raw power.
I am quite disappointed that no-one thought that they were worth the effort to include in the ultimate book about magic in the PFRPG system :-(
Isn't the easiest way around that to simply state that Wizards only start off with cantrips in the "Pathfinder Corebook" only???
Someone mentioned there's 2 new item creation feats. What are they?
Got my PDF, and the only thing I felt was missing are racial favored class benefits for the Magus. Any chance we can get those as a blog post or something? Or will they detailed in a future book?
Hey!
Though I do like spiders better, they're creepier.
Nothing is creepier than wasps... I fear those hellspawned monsters more than anything.
Someone mentioned there's 2 new item creation feats. What are they?
There aren't any item creation feats, however there are two general feats that modifiy existing item creation feats. One allows you to create arms or armor that is a holy symbol. And the other allows you to brew a potion that let's another use a bloodline power.
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Just started reading.
The earlier comments about the artwork rocking are spot on. Case in point: the Qinggong Monk "punk monk" example is awesome.
Going to have to take a closer look, but I'm falling in love with that monk variant. I'm still not sold on the vows, but maybe I'm missing something if they synergize with the qinggong monk.
Really split on the Paladin Oaths. About half of them lend themselves to absolutist party-grief concepts. What does an Oath against Corruption paladin do when he meets a Flumph or visits Korvosa with its otyugh-dependant sewer system? What do Oath against Fiends paladins do when they encounter a risen (or rising) fiend(double points if he's a paladin of Ragathiel who pretty much IS a risen fiend). Hell, what about tieflings? Oath against Undead at least gave a nod to good undead being possible, while saying it's cool beans to murder 'em anyway. At least Oath against Savagery explicitly notes it's about "savages" bearing down on civilization with hostile intent, but I'm still not big on it considering the ugly places it can lead. And then there's Oath against Wyrms and the explicit mention of dragon-bloodline sorcerers being a possible target. No thanks.
Oaths of Charity, Chastity, Loyalty, and Vengeance on the other hand, I dig. Those are nice and evocative.
I'm guessing Zon-Kuthon's absense on the Torture Inquisition deity list is an unintentional error, because that is so his sort of scene.
Just saw the Baron Samedi halfling! :D
The Eidolon models are going to be VERY handy for helping newcomers to the class!
Mwangi druid w/ triceratops is BOSS.
create demiplane - <3
Bard masterpieces are awesome. I'd love to see more stuff along these lines and the old incantations from 3.x. This is a kind of magic I would love to see more of in the game.
(that and House of the Imaginary Walls gives me all the excuse I need to make a mime bard. :D)
The expanded spell creation rules are very appreciated. Gonna lose myself in those for a moment.
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Curious as to the vareity of new witch hex's. And witch or familiar specific feats. . .
On hexes:
There's a hex that involves detecting children or young animals, a curse transmitted via seeing your familiar, nasty fingernails, Snow White style sleep cursin' food, magical scars, spookin' horses, aquatic lungs, turning people into food(:O), seeing through the eyes of other animals, animated huts, and all sorts of nastiness involving ice needles and tombs.
Witch example art is a badass pilgrim looking dude.
