Master Astrologer

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Same here for the last quarter of an hour.


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My top with 9:

I think we all need to get a little perspective here.

First, the number of people who have posted on these boards is I believe less than 12.5% of those who are eligible to take part in EE. The idea that we are now "setting the tone" for PFO is untenable given those numbers, and the claim that the game will fail because of the actions of any or all of us active on these boards is arrogance in the extreme.

Actually, I still think it's relevant.

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AFK = A Free Kill

There isn't much more to it than that. Until people start thinking like this, they will get killed. And yes, RL happens, but it takes all of 2 seconds to click the logout button so unless it's a real disaster, there is time.

That said, people killed while at the crafting stations have absolutely no chance of knowing that there is a "hostile" anywhere near them at the moment - that's not only not fun, it's not "fair" (and, yes, life is not fair, but if you want people to pay to play this game there has to be some perceived degree of fairness. This applies to the PvPers as well, although their definitions of fair may be different - remember Bluddwolf railing about Ryan's comment that GW would be "arbitrary and capricious" in their dealings with griefers?)

The Thornguard change should take care of most of this anyway as far as "safety" in town goes. Perhaps the fact that towers can be defended now will take care of the rest.

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This explains it Tyncale

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Bluddwolf wrote:

@ Andius,

I make a mockery of many things, but nothing that I put my word to.

He may be a rogue, but he is an honourable one.

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I find myself agreeing with Xeen (not unprecedented, but not all that common either).

I have yet to play Alpha (been away from PFO for a month and looking forward to logging in tomorrow for the first time), so my opinion is worth exactly that much (ie that of someone who has no experience) and no more, but there do seem to be some systems "missing" from what I have read. I'd rather the game was truly at MVP stage when EE is launched than rushed out simply because. The first impression made WILL count. I'd rather that first impression were better, even if that means it comes later. Of course, I may just be talking out of my uninformed you-know-where, and change my mind tomorrow after trying stuff.

Mark me down as another who'd prefer a month's wait if that's what it takes.

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Congratulations to Mr Fox, Mrs. Fox and not forgetting baby Fox!

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Sorry, Bludd, I obviously misread you - I think you needed a paragraph break after "do just that".

It seems, as Charlie says, that we are on the same page. This game will fail just as surely if there is not enough competition as it will if one group hellbent on destroying PFO manages to dominate it, through whatever means.

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Agreed, Charlie, which is why I agree with Bludd if his objection is to an arbitrary decision to reset the game because one group / alliance is seen as being too powerful.

If on the other hand he is saying that nothing should be done to stop a group working hard simply to break the game, then I think he's being naive if he thinks GW or Paizo will simply sit back and let that happen. This is a commercial enterprise, and I doubt greatly that it will just be allowed to fail so as not to ruffle a few feathers. And for all those players who may feel disgruntled and leave after such an action (and I suspect it might not be a few), it could be equally argued that there will be others who will be encouraged by it and try PFO out, knowing that it is not a game where ar$ehattery (to use Ryan's lovely word) will be tolerated.

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Bluddwolf wrote:
Jiminy wrote:
Lhan wrote:
All politics aside, it's an interesting take to state that those intent on destroying the game, be they the Goons or whoever, are "high producers".
Err, who said that?

No one did.

Err, yes you did Bludd.

Bluddwolf wrote:
Audoucet wrote:

From where I stand, "Goons" is more of a generic adjective than a name. It represents a big meta-guild, entirely focused on just messing up the game.

With Lisa & Ryan's objective of making a game a little more open to the large audience, I think that they will have to, from time to time, stepping to balance the world.

For example, if 90% of the game becomes of a specific alignment, LG/LE/LN whatever, then I think that they should step in.

If their intent is to destroy PFO, they will do just that. Players like to follow the rules and over time gain expertise and power. What you're suggesting is that if they become to powerful and or are too successful due to their hard work and effort, that a "balancing" should take place to re level the playing field.

Socialism doesn't work in real life, it will be even more unpopular in a sand box MMO.

You've managed to tidily conflate Lisa and Ryan rebalancing things to stop people who are actively trying to destroy PFO with rebalancing in general, though, so I can see where Jiminy was confused.

So, just to clear things up - is your objection to levelling the playing field "just because" (in which case I'm with you), or are you also saying that the owners of a commercial enterprise should not take steps to prevent a group that is, to use your words, intent on destroying PFO? I submit that this would be the wrong course of action, however "hard" the Goons - or whoever it may be, work to achieve that end.

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All politics aside, it's an interesting take to state that those intent on destroying the game, be they the Goons or whoever, are "high producers".

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Grats to you both.

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Grats Kemedo on winning your Alpha invite, and to Wyspr (name?) as well.

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Will you be issuing the surveys beforehand and in bulk? That way I can fill out a wad of them and just peel a preprepared one off and hand it over every time I get ganked.

Oh and purple tastes like chicken - I thought everyone knew that!

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Great work guys!

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Thanks Aou!

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Nice work Decius, thanks!

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Thanks for sharing that link, Morbis; interesting reading. Especially the comments.

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Welcome Caldeathe and all your fellow Moose ... er Elkhaveners.

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Welcome Eastern Sun!

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Virgil Firecask wrote:
Lhan wrote:
Virgil Firecask wrote:
On a quiet night, under the stars in Europe if you listen very carefully you can hear the French surrender.

I know this is a popular American meme, but it is as blatantly unfair as it is patently untrue. There's probably not an army on the planet that has done as well as the French over the years, your own included. This said by an Brit on the 199th anniversary of Waterloo, one of our proudest moments because we (with a lot of help from Dutch, Belgian and German troops) finally managed to defeat Napoleon. You may have heard of him.

Cheap shot racism is cheap shot racism, no matter who it is directed at, or how funny it's supposed to be. If someone had said the same about US forces there'd be 101 angry posts about it by now (and quite right too). Please don't.

I have heard of Napoleon. He, himself, wasn't French, though. Look it up.

It's okay. The same army that kicked the French out of Vietnam also kicked us out of Vietnam. We failed to the same armies.

I'm well aware he wasn't born French thanks, Virgil, though the man himself claimed he was French many times. And the hundreds of thousands of men with him were too. And one man (well, ok there were a few other foreigners in charge too from time to time) out of a long list stretching from Martel to LeClerc doesn't really change much, really.

I appreciate that you didn't make the comment with malice, but it's such an oft repeated and ill thought out fallacy that it really grates. Sorry for jumping on your case - it's a bit of a bête noire for me.

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Bluddwolf wrote:
Let's have a chat in TS and we will put all of our mistrust of each other out on the table. Maybe...

Thank you, Bludd. I don't know if the differences can be resolved, but I would be very heartened to see an attempt being made.

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Virgil Firecask wrote:
On a quiet night, under the stars in Europe if you listen very carefully you can hear the French surrender.

I know this is a popular American meme, but it is as blatantly unfair as it is patently untrue. There's probably not an army on the planet that has done as well as the French over the years, your own included. This said by an Brit on the 199th anniversary of Waterloo, one of our proudest moments because we (with a lot of help from Dutch, Belgian and German troops) finally managed to defeat Napoleon. You may have heard of him.

Cheap shot racism is cheap shot racism, no matter who it is directed at, or how funny it's supposed to be. If someone had said the same about US forces there'd be 101 angry posts about it by now (and quite right too). Please don't.

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Crash_00 wrote:
Being wrote:

Yet people who are neither criminals nor police officers have automatic weapons, and I know this to be a fact. Therefore it is not a fact that only police or criminals have automatic weapons. Therefore your premise is an hypothesis and the argument based thereon is not a fact.

If you want to be sloppy in your thinking that is your business, but don't expect to easily use your sloppy reasoning among intelligent and self-disciplined people.

May we leave your personal political beliefs aside now?

Not "newly made" automatic weapons as I stated, unless you consider things from 1986 "newly made." If they are owning "newly made" automatic weapons, they are criminals or government employees.

Ignoring what people state does not make those statements sloppy, it simply shows that you can't follow everything being said.

It also has nothing to do with politics, but is, again, simple logic that has a direct mirror in what you were trying to shoot down.

If you wish to leave the facts alone, sure, you can. That doesn't change the fact that they are facts.

And here's that thread derailment ... as predicted.

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Best of luck Aou and company - not such a large move geographically but a great fit for you. I'm sure you won't be strangers!

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Bluddwolf wrote:
Lhan wrote:
Bluddwolf wrote:


Don't limit my ability to own and carry a fire arm, punish severally those who misuse fire arms. By limiting me you only ensure that the only two people with fire arms are the police force and the criminal.

Please don't bring RL "equivalents" into threads like these. Not everybody will agree with you and all it serves to do is muddy the waters and derail the thread. We're talking about PvP here, not the right to bear arms.

I was not talking about the right to bear arms, I was using that as an example of how limitations meant to be directed at one party ends up effecting and or affecting the unintended. Then if you add in the fact that the intended target doesn't care about the rules, you end up limiting those that would have followed the rules anyway.

This is related to the OP in that Mbando is trying to get to the heart of false perception one might hold.

A sandbox is night really a sandbox if there are too many limitations on how we play with the sand.

Not everyone agrees with the line of argument used in your RL precedent. As such it does not add weight to the PvP discussion but merely opens up a further line of debate that has nothing to do with what we are talking about.

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Bluddwolf wrote:


Don't limit my ability to own and carry a fire arm, punish severally those who misuse fire arms. By limiting me you only ensure that the only two people with fire arms are the police force and the criminal.

Please don't bring RL "equivalents" into threads like these. Not everybody will agree with you and all it serves to do is muddy the waters and derail the thread. We're talking about PvP here, not the right to bear arms.

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Oh I know - haven't played EU4 for a while, but CK2 and Victoria - timesinks extraordinaire.

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Damn, Jazz, there goes my weekend...

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I have an Orbweaver - love it and since I never had a Nostromo I don't miss the arrow keys.

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Sounds great - roll on the 16th for the lucky Alpha testers!

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BurnHavoc wrote:
I said nothing about hardcore. I'm a casual player. I'm advocating for PvP that is meaningful to the role I want to play in this game. I don't want to log on regularly and find I can't do anything because I started too many brawls last time I was on.

There will be plenty of things you can do. Random PvP against unsanctioned targets probably won't be one of them though.

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Congratulations!

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Welcome, Bonny!

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Congratulations Hammerfall - look forward to having you in the neighbourhood.

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Congratulations Forgehelm! Looking good for the future.

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Results won't be in till 7pm CEST - 6 BST, so you have time to enjoy that dumpling status.

And to echo what some above have said (and say what I should have said first): I hope your child gets better soon, Lee; we all understand that family is way more important than this game, so take - as I'm sure you will - all the time you need.

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7 am here which is still "too-early-to-have-had-enough-coffee-to-deal-with-the-world o'clock". I admire your dedication.

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Morbis, you are up far too early - it's still stupid o'clock where I am...

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/signed

And a public thank you to Morbis for doing just this in private earlier this weekend.

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There is no NDA in Alpha, as far as I am aware.

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Good job, Wiz!

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By the time those 2.5 years are up, GW will have added more depth to the crafting system. I very much doubt anyone will ever be in the position to have trained everything (those skill trees I started in EvE in 2005 looked a whole lot different to how they look now).

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Audoucet wrote:
Gol Morbis wrote:
...

I don't really see the point of this thread. You've already declared that you would raze T7V, and that its member should flee.

Is it an attempt at a diplomatic way to resolve the situation ? If it is, it would be more productive to start a discussion in private, asking for a gesture of goodwill, than a public ultimatum.

To be fair to Morbis, he has already done just that.

This thread is not doing anyone any favours. People are just entrenching their positions and digging their heels in. Those of you on both sides who have any common sense at all - please just stop. Both sides. Quite frankly this resembles an "argument" at Kindergarten at the moment, with cries of "but he started it, Miss!", and it's making us all look stupid. We're better than this. Or we should be.

So to my fellow members of T7V - please lay off the Golgothans. If Nihimon feels the need to comment again, I am sure he's a big enough boy to do so for himself (although I personally hope he's said enough). To those from Golgotha - please just give it a rest for a while, let tempers calm, and let those who are talking - not shouting past each other - try to sort things out satisfactorily for all concerned.

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Curses, foiled again! :-)

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Glad to see Forgehelm doing so well in the Landrush. I am sure to be an early visitor.

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Since Wex hasn't responded himself, I can say that he reported back that he had a very warm welcome on UNC TS. What with all the vitriol flying about in all directions on these boards at the moment, I for one am pleased to see that UNC are capable of making a distinction between the player and the role.

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avari3 wrote:

Dropping guild tag to say my opinions on the the different issues:

1. Pax sending Aet votes to Gologotha: Was never a big deal to me, but glad that Pax owned up to it and fixed it anyways.

2. Golgotha going for a settlement despite being part of Pax: A worthy debate, it was pretty clearly against the rules, but it was a special case and in the end I think the right thing happened with Golgotha staying in LR.

3. Pax Fidelis joining Ozem's Vigil: Doesn't seem like anybody who voted before is voting again or even any votes have been funneled, so NON ISSUE.

4. The 2 votes: I don't give a s~$*, I don't give a s@~@, I don't give a s#~+, I don't give a flying frog's s@&! about two f*#@ing votes!!!!

QFT, especially the bolded part.

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Love the post, Paxman.

Of course you don't scare me as much as you would have had you linked this. The idea of him hunting the River Kingdoms is truly scary.

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Audoucet wrote:

I agr... Ag... Agrrrr... I... I aggr... I agree with Xeen.

Damn you, GW ! D'you see what you made me do ?!

I think it's gorram contagious. I agree with him as well ... every ... single ... word.

Nostradamus didn't say anything about today's date, right? Old Mother Shipton? The Maya?

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