My top with 9:
I think we all need to get a little perspective here.
First, the number of people who have posted on these boards is I believe less than 12.5% of those who are eligible to take part in EE. The idea that we are now "setting the tone" for PFO is untenable given those numbers, and the claim that the game will fail because of the actions of any or all of us active on these boards is arrogance in the extreme.
Actually, I still think it's relevant.
AFK = A Free Kill
There isn't much more to it than that. Until people start thinking like this, they will get killed. And yes, RL happens, but it takes all of 2 seconds to click the logout button so unless it's a real disaster, there is time.
That said, people killed while at the crafting stations have absolutely no chance of knowing that there is a "hostile" anywhere near them at the moment - that's not only not fun, it's not "fair" (and, yes, life is not fair, but if you want people to pay to play this game there has to be some perceived degree of fairness. This applies to the PvPers as well, although their definitions of fair may be different - remember Bluddwolf railing about Ryan's comment that GW would be "arbitrary and capricious" in their dealings with griefers?)
The Thornguard change should take care of most of this anyway as far as "safety" in town goes. Perhaps the fact that towers can be defended now will take care of the rest.
I find myself agreeing with Xeen (not unprecedented, but not all that common either).
I have yet to play Alpha (been away from PFO for a month and looking forward to logging in tomorrow for the first time), so my opinion is worth exactly that much (ie that of someone who has no experience) and no more, but there do seem to be some systems "missing" from what I have read. I'd rather the game was truly at MVP stage when EE is launched than rushed out simply because. The first impression made WILL count. I'd rather that first impression were better, even if that means it comes later. Of course, I may just be talking out of my uninformed you-know-where, and change my mind tomorrow after trying stuff.
Mark me down as another who'd prefer a month's wait if that's what it takes.
Sorry, Bludd, I obviously misread you - I think you needed a paragraph break after "do just that".
It seems, as Charlie says, that we are on the same page. This game will fail just as surely if there is not enough competition as it will if one group hellbent on destroying PFO manages to dominate it, through whatever means.
Agreed, Charlie, which is why I agree with Bludd if his objection is to an arbitrary decision to reset the game because one group / alliance is seen as being too powerful.
If on the other hand he is saying that nothing should be done to stop a group working hard simply to break the game, then I think he's being naive if he thinks GW or Paizo will simply sit back and let that happen. This is a commercial enterprise, and I doubt greatly that it will just be allowed to fail so as not to ruffle a few feathers. And for all those players who may feel disgruntled and leave after such an action (and I suspect it might not be a few), it could be equally argued that there will be others who will be encouraged by it and try PFO out, knowing that it is not a game where ar$ehattery (to use Ryan's lovely word) will be tolerated.
Err, yes you did Bludd.
You've managed to tidily conflate Lisa and Ryan rebalancing things to stop people who are actively trying to destroy PFO with rebalancing in general, though, so I can see where Jiminy was confused.
So, just to clear things up - is your objection to levelling the playing field "just because" (in which case I'm with you), or are you also saying that the owners of a commercial enterprise should not take steps to prevent a group that is, to use your words, intent on destroying PFO? I submit that this would be the wrong course of action, however "hard" the Goons - or whoever it may be, work to achieve that end.
Virgil Firecask wrote:
I'm well aware he wasn't born French thanks, Virgil, though the man himself claimed he was French many times. And the hundreds of thousands of men with him were too. And one man (well, ok there were a few other foreigners in charge too from time to time) out of a long list stretching from Martel to LeClerc doesn't really change much, really.
I appreciate that you didn't make the comment with malice, but it's such an oft repeated and ill thought out fallacy that it really grates. Sorry for jumping on your case - it's a bit of a bête noire for me.
Virgil Firecask wrote:
On a quiet night, under the stars in Europe if you listen very carefully you can hear the French surrender.
I know this is a popular American meme, but it is as blatantly unfair as it is patently untrue. There's probably not an army on the planet that has done as well as the French over the years, your own included. This said by an Brit on the 199th anniversary of Waterloo, one of our proudest moments because we (with a lot of help from Dutch, Belgian and German troops) finally managed to defeat Napoleon. You may have heard of him.
Cheap shot racism is cheap shot racism, no matter who it is directed at, or how funny it's supposed to be. If someone had said the same about US forces there'd be 101 angry posts about it by now (and quite right too). Please don't.
And here's that thread derailment ... as predicted.
Not everyone agrees with the line of argument used in your RL precedent. As such it does not add weight to the PvP discussion but merely opens up a further line of debate that has nothing to do with what we are talking about.
Please don't bring RL "equivalents" into threads like these. Not everybody will agree with you and all it serves to do is muddy the waters and derail the thread. We're talking about PvP here, not the right to bear arms.
I said nothing about hardcore. I'm a casual player. I'm advocating for PvP that is meaningful to the role I want to play in this game. I don't want to log on regularly and find I can't do anything because I started too many brawls last time I was on.
There will be plenty of things you can do. Random PvP against unsanctioned targets probably won't be one of them though.
Results won't be in till 7pm CEST - 6 BST, so you have time to enjoy that dumpling status.
And to echo what some above have said (and say what I should have said first): I hope your child gets better soon, Lee; we all understand that family is way more important than this game, so take - as I'm sure you will - all the time you need.
To be fair to Morbis, he has already done just that.
This thread is not doing anyone any favours. People are just entrenching their positions and digging their heels in. Those of you on both sides who have any common sense at all - please just stop. Both sides. Quite frankly this resembles an "argument" at Kindergarten at the moment, with cries of "but he started it, Miss!", and it's making us all look stupid. We're better than this. Or we should be.
So to my fellow members of T7V - please lay off the Golgothans. If Nihimon feels the need to comment again, I am sure he's a big enough boy to do so for himself (although I personally hope he's said enough). To those from Golgotha - please just give it a rest for a while, let tempers calm, and let those who are talking - not shouting past each other - try to sort things out satisfactorily for all concerned.
Since Wex hasn't responded himself, I can say that he reported back that he had a very warm welcome on UNC TS. What with all the vitriol flying about in all directions on these boards at the moment, I for one am pleased to see that UNC are capable of making a distinction between the player and the role.
QFT, especially the bolded part.