Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
There are few meaningful things a person can do that will bear no risk, which is how I read 'unintended consequences'. But that shouldn't bar our way from doing things. We've learned to factor for those risks and guide ourselves to negotiating through those risks, hopefully to a better outcome than would have been, had we never done anything at all.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
First off, removing company tag because this post is made as an individual, and might be a bit controversial with others who are part of my organization. I'd like to start off by putting my hands in the air and promising that I come in peace. :P
As a result of reading the Faction Map thread, and noting a not insignificant (bwahaha, double negatives and nobody to stop me!) number of people there thinking of the Roseblood Accord as some sort of alliance, I think the question needs to be asked, why do people look at this as an alliance?
In my humble opinion it seems like the reason is some Accord members help each other out quite a bit (which is fine, by the way), and because they do not have an outward-facing agreement on the boards that covers those interactions, those interactions are being assumed to be covered by the Roseblood Accord.
As a more specific example, there is a seemingly inevitable alliance between TSV and TEO, who have even set up in specific map locations to help each other out, but as far as I know there is no official alliance declared. I think people are projecting such actions as being "RA business", when in fact such actions have nothing to do with the Roseblood accord, because there's nothing else to point to.
I'm not sure if making any planned in-game agreements public now would help anything though; hell, I'm not sure that anything I wrote up there comes remotely close to what people are actually thinking. Just one opinion for you guys to mull over.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I feel like this is probably the best place to notify the most interested members of the community.
I will be travelling for a couple weeks starting tomorrow. Driving from Florida to Ohio, staying a week or so, and then back. I may pop in now and then, but I will be very sparse and may not answer PMs immediately unless they appear to be time-sensitive and I see them on time.
I shall be back around regularly in the first week of July.
Fair winds to you Lifedragn.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I think you're right to err on the side of caution, and the view of skepticism is quite understandable.
I suppose one of the strength/weaknesses of the RA is in part due to it's vagueness. I don't personally see how it could be used as a weapon of harassment, or discrimination- The vessel of Tyranny as you say. The only way I could ever imagine that happening is if someone Amended the RA to have any kind of enforcement or collective authority.
If it gets tainted with unjust actions, or tyranny, let me assure you I will be among the first to publicly burn my own copy the document in protest.
I WILL PRESS CTRL-P WITH THIS PAGE OPEN
AND BURN WHATEVER COMES OUTExcept Hobs's beautiful avatar. That I shall hang in the place of honor in my special room. AHEM BURN IT ALL
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
For me, personally, Positive Gameplay means never making it personal.
It means remembering that this is a game and we are ALL here to have fun, and all of our interactions should hinge on it.
It means that you should never make your own fun be at the expense of others.
It means never targeting the newbs because you are only in it for the kills and don't want to risk playing with people on your level.
It means recognizing that, if some people wanna play cops, someone has to play the robbers, and that doesn't mean you can't be friends with the robbers. There wouldn't be a game without the bad guys.
Basically, its about good sportsmanship.
EDIT:
I feel compelled to second this:
If it gets tainted with unjust actions, or tyranny, let me assure you I will be among the first to publicly burn my own copy the document in protest.
I almost jumped ship when Bludd was hounded by people on this thread because they didn't like that he (and his company) are playing a predatory role in the game.
I still oppose that viewpoint, despite the fact that me and mine are going to be among he and his top targets. Bludd and his people will be essential to this game's survival, and ostracizing them for it is toxic.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I would like to hereby offer to *any* group to join the Roseblood Accord. As long as you keep things aimed at combat between characters and not between players, you're all good in my book.
Any group, regardless of its past, is free to join the Roseblood Accord.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I would like to hereby offer to *any* group to join the Roseblood Accord. As long as you keep things aimed at combat between characters and not between players, you're all good in my book.
Any group, regardless of its past, is free to join the Roseblood Accord.
I appreciate this stance.
Edit: No questions if I choose to see this as a move in good faith, which I choose to do. :)
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I would like to hereby offer to *any* group to join the Roseblood Accord. As long as you keep things aimed at combat between characters and not between players, you're all good in my book.
Any group, regardless of its past, is free to join the Roseblood Accord.
I am not disagreeing with you, just clarifying for my own understanding.
Do you consider all combat between characters as positive gameplay and all combat about players negative?
Also, would you advocate allowing a group that is suspect of participating in negative gameplay into the Accord (admittedly, I am a fan of the innocent until proven guilty axiom)?
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I would like to hereby offer to *any* group to join the Roseblood Accord. As long as you keep things aimed at combat between characters and not between players, you're all good in my book.
Any group, regardless of its past, is free to join the Roseblood Accord.
I am not disagreeing with you, just clarifying for my own understanding.
Do you consider all combat between characters as positive gameplay and all combat about players negative?
Also, would you advocate allowing a group that is suspect of participating in negative gameplay into the Accord (admittedly, I am a fan of the innocent until proven guilty axiom)?
I try to avoid black and white distinctions. To me, Character vs Character rather than Player vs Player is a good guideline. If someone makes their actions designed to hurt another *player*, then it has probably crossed the line.
To your second point, negative gameplay would be very hard to prove and quite subjective. I believe until innocent until proven guilty, emphasis on proven. Since the game hasn't even started yet, I see zero reason to prevent any group from joining the Roseblood Accord.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
So what about groups that have given "the average concerned citizen" reason to believe they will participate in negative gameplay? Or stated outright that they think your (the general you, to the general audience, not you Alexander) ideas of positive gameplay are crap and that they have no intent to follow them?
Just hypotheticals.
Personally, I have to agree with the criteria we have used elsewhere...if for no other reason than being consistent. What appears to be true, is true. If something appears to be griefing, it is. If something appears to be positive gameplay it is. If someone appears to support negative gameplay, they do. I realize that some would argue this is a very touchy and frustratingly vague distinction and I will fully agree that it is. Unfortunately, it is the best I have, and to be fair, at least as quantifiable as whether a given action was done in-game to a character or player. At least I do not have to rely upon the subjective opinion of the person who might be trying to justify their case and avoid consequences for their true actions. A neutral third party can answer my question. I am however, willing to debate the validity of either/both our positions.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Summon Wall of Text II
Ah, well technically this is an alliance, just its not a martial/economic/financial/etc. alliance, it is an ideal alliance. But that aside, I understand the point you make and have agreed with it all the time. Just stating this to press buttons if you will ;)
That, however, is not the point. As Carbon stated, it seems hard to many to see how this could be used as a weapon of tyranny, or as a way to do this, that, or the other. In response to this I'll just point out a few things.
First, Bludd and UNC and the debate on here regarding them being accepted or not.
Second, the discussion of what, when, where, and why of RA most importantly the what and why.
Thirdly, my own comments, and the subsequent responses.
There are others I'm sure, but these are just top of the head
If you don't think any of these things were "used" to manuever political or social agendas, if you think that the Roseblood Accord cannot be a vessel for alliances, wars, and in-game affects, if you think people won't believe that this will be used and abused by many to affect gameplay in large or small ways, then let me be the first to show you your err with some simple data.
Before I mentioned things on the RA I had about four people regularly talking to me (being < four times a week). After the Roseblood Accord comments (the week after) I had seven people. In the time since I have gained four more, making a total of eleven, though these can be admittedly for other reasons (I keep my TVC correspondences seperated from this). Almost all asking who I was, what I represented, and why I had my opinions of the RA and other things and what they truly were.
While this is admittedly not the "tyrannical intent" I am afraid of, it is without doubt manipulation of intent, or at the very least using the RA to further my personal machinations, harmless though they may (or may not) be. All I'm saying is that if this can easily be manipulated by a punk kid like me (actually just turned twenty on the sixteenth, go figure) to whatever I desire, from making points, to garnering information, to sparking negotiations, all in a few moments and a few words, imagine what someone with more malicious intent, placed at the right place, with the right followers, moving at the right time, can use the RA. There is nothing inherent about the system that lead to this, of course, but it is simply the fact that it exists that means it can be used. I expressed all my fears on the subject so far in the hopes on enlightening others to this same vulnerability in the hopes that they could see my point of view, whether or not they agree. I'm sure I've succeeded pretty well so far, and am no doubt being redundant in the extreme to many, but the fears are there and, given the stated objections of mr. Brother Letholdus Zael, it was needed for me to state something in the ways I have.
Of course, while I know I am right, that doesn't mean I couldn't be wrong, no?
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Shorter BrotherZael: "Anything you say can and will be used against you"
This was an invitation for groups who shared our values to declare so and, if they wanted, to settle near us in the southeast mountains. In some ways, it was a resounding success; we made many friends that we might not have met otherwise. For that, I am extremely grateful.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Freevale has spam.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Lucky b@$t@rd. One of the few things I miss from growing up in Indiana is White Castle never having bothered coming to Arizona. No, frozen doesn't cut it :-).
Yeah actually I lived in Ohio(O-H!!!) for a while where there's plenty of White Castles...and now I live in Tennessee where there is no White Castle, but Krystal instead. Which is the South's gross White Castle imitator.
This is official R.A. business right
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
...and now I live in Tennessee where there is no White Castle, but Krystal instead. Which is the South's gross White Castle imitator.
Where in TN? Here in Nashville we have intersections where Krystal and White Castle are across the road from each other.
This is official R.A. business right
Proper diet is part of a positive gaming experience.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
...and now I live in Tennessee where there is no White Castle, but Krystal instead. Which is the South's gross White Castle imitator.Where in TN? Here in Nashville we have intersections where Krystal and White Castle are across the road from each other.
I'm currently in Knoxville but I could see myself in Nashville before too long.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Welcome!! I have added you to the Roseblood Accord Membership List
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Welcome!! I have added you to the Roseblood Accord Membership List
Cheatle,
If you could add the Lion Council and the Grim Maw Company. These two are sponsored companies of Aragon.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Welcome!! I have added you to the Roseblood Accord Membership List
I expect you will see us soon.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Welcome!! I have added you to the Roseblood Accord Membership ListCheatle,
If you could add the Lion Council and the Grim Maw Company. These two are sponsored companies of Aragon.
Is the accord by company or by settlement?
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Is the accord by company or by settlement?Welcome!! I have added you to the Roseblood Accord Membership ListCheatle,
If you could add the Lion Council and the Grim Maw Company. These two are sponsored companies of Aragon.
This accord can be entered by individual, company, settlement or even a nation (I woukd assume).
All this accord is is a pledge to promote positive game play as a player. I personally view it as a pledge to not grief and to make every attempt to engage in meaningful human interactions that will hopefully be mutually entertaining for all parties concerned.
I don't believe that is too much to ask of any individual, and I woukd remind my members of it and inform our new recruits of this standard that we have agreed to uphold.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Just to reiterate my own personal view, and one that I am encouraging the UNC and more broadly the settlement of Aragon to adopt as our official view is:
"Positive Gameplay" is a pledge as a player to play within the rules and mechanics of the game. It is a pledge to not unduly prey upon the new player, at the risk of spoiling their new found experience within the game. It is a pledge to not bring about frustration, just for the laughs. It is a pledge to make every attempt to have our interactions viewed as meaningful and hopefully entertaining for both friend and foe alike."
As I hope it is obvious, there is no "in-game" benefit that we expect in this pledge. We do not request or expect any special consideration as being a signatory of the Roseblood Accord. We view the pledge as a pledge from one player to another and not a character to character, company to company or settlement to settlement pledge not to play PFO as intended by the Developers.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Just to reiterate my own personal view, and one that I am encouraging the UNC and more broadly the settlement of Aragon to adopt as our official view is:
"Positive Gameplay" is a pledge as a player to play within the rules and mechanics of the game. It is a pledge to not unduly prey upon the new player, at the risk of spoiling their new found experience within the game. It is a pledge to not bring about frustration, just for the laughs. It is a pledge to make every attempt to have our interactions viewed as meaningful and hopefully entertaining for both friend and foe alike."
As I hope it is obvious, there is no "in-game" benefit that we expect in this pledge. We do not request or expect any special consideration as being a signatory of the Roseblood Accord. We view the pledge as a pledge from one player to another and not a character to character, company to company or settlement to settlement pledge not to play PFO as intended by the Developers.
This looks exactly right to me, Bluddwolf. Any in-game benefits between groups should be properly worked out in separate agreements.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Is the accord by company or by settlement?Welcome!! I have added you to the Roseblood Accord Membership ListCheatle,
If you could add the Lion Council and the Grim Maw Company. These two are sponsored companies of Aragon.
This accord can be entered by individual, company, settlement or even a nation (I woukd assume).
All this accord is is a pledge to promote positive game play as a player. I personally view it as a pledge to not grief and to make every attempt to engage in meaningful human interactions that will hopefully be mutually entertaining for all parties concerned.
I don't believe that is too much to ask of any individual, and I would remind my members of it and inform our new recruits of this standard that we have agreed to uphold.
Just wanted to affirm that the Grim Maw Company, is in agreement with this and I willingly put our name on the List given the current definition. We have no desire to scare away prospective players. More Crowd = More Crowd-Forging right?