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For information: I am working on having a character become a Spiritualist when he next levels. In the mean time, he keeps seeing things and hearing voices in his head as the phantom tries to link to his consciousness.


Where can I find this? Someone made a comment about how magic is used in the setting I want to look into.


Just for information, if you should happen to read the Ethshar novels by Lawrence Watts-Evans, their Wizards use magic very similar to D&D magic, and in that setting they consider it CHAOS magic. Sorcerers use LAW magic, but we know little about them except they require a lot of mathematical calculations to do their magic.

The reason I consider Wizard Magic as "Chaotic and Unorganized" could be a leftover from my knowledge of where the magic system originally came from...namely it was based on the magic of Jack Vance's Dying Earth Series.

The idea of having each spell being a construct is not bad, but the time it would take to build a construct spells would, logically, have to grow with the number and complexity of the spells known, rather tan taking a constant time to learn spells for the day.

I might have to look up the Santiago setting.


enrik wrote:

Some quick thoughts after a late playtest game last night.

1. Do the magic circle abilities fit this class? Would this set of abilities fit thematically with the Spiritualist instead?

2. I played the occultist more like a psychic artificer going with the transmutation,conjuration, and divination implements. Buffing the party, using magic devices, and identifying interesting items we came across. My question is: Would trapfinding be an appropriate ability with this class? I found it would have fit my "theme" for the character I played.

3. I found that the Occultist gains a lot of abilities and powers from items but would it be thematic if the occultist could imbue power into an item? For instance my character finds an old rusted sword and identifies that it was once an "important" weapon. Perhaps expending focus the sword could return to its glory days by being a fully functional magic weapon for a few rounds?

1) A Good question. My answer is: it depends. I can see it, a kind of psychic feedback ability, but not 100% sure if this is the class for it.

2) The question has been asked. I imagine there will be archetypes who do have Trapfinding, but like a Bard it probably will not be in the main class.

3)He can pretty much do so, by using focus. Still, I was wondering about an Occultist using Craft Magical Items being able to endow items with abilities that he does not actually know he spell for, if he has a focus ability with a similar effect.


It is a question of how you define "mid level" and how you define "one power". My favorite is super metabolic efficiency. Something that makes you about six times as good at everything...strength, speed, healing, senses.


There is already a feat to let you block ranged attacks with a shield I think.

I also think you may want to look over the Shield Champion archetype.


First of all, to do Batman you need to create a special archetype based on the Investigator. The special part is that, instead of Infusions, he has Gadgets. Like Infusions, these tend to be one shot things that other people generally can not use, it is just that are in solid form, and probably have a different spell list.

Second, I looked at the Brawler Shield Champion and said, "Hey, it's Captain America."


Isn't there a feat to let an arcane class use a single clerical domain? There was in 3.5, I would think there would be here also.


that was 3400, in this thread


Back in the days of D&D 3.0 there was a game called Dragonstar, a setting for D&D that took place in a globular cluster with star travel, a place with both magic and high technology. A place with some worlds inhabited by a single race, and others by a mix of races...an Empire ruled by Dragons.

Now, I always thought the concept was good, and I think it could be done with Pathfinder, especially if you use the new Technology Guide.

By my thinking though, a scientific culture would not tend to use the Disorganized and Unscientific approach to magic found in most Wizards.

Fortunately Ultimate Magic presented an alternative, the Words of Power System. Now to me, that looks a lot more like a scientific approach to magic, but you still have the problem of Wizards forgetting their spells and sorcerers being unable to learn new spells easily. Neither of these seems like something you would want in an "Imperial Magic Corps".

Well now we have the Arcanist, from the Advanced Class Guide. A class that learns spells like a Wizard, but uses them like a Sorcerer. That seems perfect.

The only problem is, there are still thinks that can not be done with Words of Power. I was wondering a couple of things. Has anyone added any new words of power since Ultimate Magic, and has anyone figured out what kinds of words of power classes that came after Ultimate Magic might have?


Surviving, no matter what your class, is a matter of playing as smart as you can. If you are playing a caster, make sure you have a backup for when you run out of spells (as noted, I tend to do this by picking a race with racial weapons as a feature). If you are a close in fighter, do your best to maximize both damage (including attack here, you do no damage if you miss) and defense. Do not, in either case, rush in.


LOL "Bookkeeping nightmare"


Yep, unless you are playing the Magus Archetype that uses bloodlines and not a spellbook anyway.


I thought there was such a feat, but could not find it at a glance :(


Homebrew tends to take a lot of effort, but can be worth while.


Check the Bard Archetypes, there might be something there...


I can not find one in the rules I have, though that is not all of them. There used to be one in 3.5, I may well be missing something.


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I am a fan of the Kitsune race, but if you are playing a Full Caster I find it very useful to play a race that has a racial weapon bonus.

For Example, I have a Half-Orc Sorcerer who uses his Greataxe as much as he uses magic...he has just about made it to level 4. He started off at level 1, it is just that he knows full well that he is going to be in combat sometimes and is prepared for it.


I have read the ACG, and can tell you that the characters are not really higher power. All of the classes in it are hybrid classes, taking some things from two different classes to make something different.

An Investigator is a hybrid of Alchemist and Rogue. It does have a special class ability involving skills that makes it kind of effective as a skill meister. It is not more potent in combat that either of the base classes. In fact, it is kind of like a Bard, but one who has infusions rather than standard spells.


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Call the ability "Psychometric Spell" and make it a universal focus ability...


Perhaps it should be an upgrade to the Object Reading ability, something gained at higher level. It could also be a feat, something not gained automatically but learnable with effort.


Mikael Sebag wrote:
AlanDG2 wrote:
Possibly better would be the spells used to create the item may be accessible, that way you would know what those spells are without having to make up a list of synergy effects for every item you might encounter.

This I like. It takes advantage of something that already has to be described in the rules fairly explicitly and the amount of additional bookkeeping is minimal (looking up the spells used in an item's creation in the CRB or online once is hardly time-consuming). Maybe even something where you spend a number of points of mental focus invested in the magic item equal to 1 + the spell level to cast one of the spells used in its creation? (Plus any costly material components, of course.)

This would allow occultists some limited access to 7+ spells without needing to go beyond what they currently have available.

It even makes sense in terms of the class abilities, since the class has psychometric abilities why not be able to tap the powers latent in the magic item?


pippinTook wrote:

Odd question, which probably applies to most of the psychic classes:

I was playing an adventure the other day and we got grappled by n entangle spell. One of our party members escaped with a gaseous form potion, but of course, couldn't take any real actions beyond moving, because gaseous. However, while gaseous, you're still able to look and to think, so here's my question: can a mesmerist still use the stare effects and cast spells (since they're psychic) while in gaseous form?

As long as the spell has no material component, then possibly.


It sounds like a reasonable suggestion, possibly it should be a feat, not a class ability?


It does not make it less limited, I agree, it simply provides a reason for the limitation in internal logic.


Turning into an elemental is reasonable actually, when you realize how the power works...


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I suspect you can only get the benefit of one night's rest in one 24 hour period, no matter how it is obtained.


I think I just explained this elsewhere. It is like this, your "Move Earth" power is really forming a connection with the elemental plane of earth. Unworked stone is "living" on that plane, just like a green tree is living or a cow is living, but worked stone is not living, just like a seasoned wooden chair is not living and a leather armor suit is not living. Clear?


I am considering the possibility that any of the elemental based Kinetecists can handle an equal volume, not an equal weight (or should be able to), because their power is based on altering the nature of the area to reflect the nature of the elemental planes...vast areas of pure but living elements that you do not so much manipulate as herd.


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The way the class describes itself, it sounds like there should be the potential for some kind of synergy effect when using a magic item of any kind. Something based on the item powers possibly. Say, for example, that you use a Flaming Burst Sword, and it gives you access to the Fireball spell, but only while you have that particular kind of sword imbued with focus.

Possibly better would be the spells used to create the item may be accessible, that way you would know what those spells are without having to make up a list of synergy effects for every item you might encounter.


I mentioned in the Mesmerist thread, a Medium with a spirit that can survey the area immaterially teamed up with a Mesmerist, who can use the information to prepare for specific encounters with the proper tricks, makes a good combo.


Will it give more Burn per day? Well, only if you have a really low number of Hit Points, it might, under that condition, let you use Burn that would normally make you unconscious. Of course, you would still pass out once the spell wore off.


The difference would be RP if you lose control. If you are possessed by a different spirit, your actions may vary considerably than if you always use the same one.


Sounds like an improvements that will be favored.


I mentioned once, a long way up thread, that I thought Mediums should channel specific local spirits or ones that the medium has a link to, which happen to fit the archetype template.


A book as a possible DIVINATION implement: Imagine the pages turning and the words highlighting to answer questions...


Jesuncolo wrote:
Quote:

An Occultist is a dabbler, really. He certainly knows about magic, but he doesn't precisely cast it himself. No, he has toys. He scrounges up items that allow him to supplement his otherwise mediocre to nonexistent magical capabilities. In terms of precisely what he does in terms of the world, he's using psychometry to find objects with the right resonance and then forcing that resonance out into magical effects.

Thematically, he's not personally a spellcaster per se (though he is mechanically), he's a guy with amulet that can shield him from harm, or a wand that throws blasts of deadly energy, and who always seems to have another magic item up his sleeve. He probably has more in common with the Alchemist than the Wizard, with both relying on devices (extracts and implements, respectively) to provide them with magical effects that others can mostly get something like with magical items...but free of the cost that carries in gold.

Quote:

First, you need to compare to the right class, an occultist is very little like a Wizard, because they do not memorize spells, they do use weapons, and do wear armor.

The closest thing I have seen to an Occultist is a Magus with the Eldritch Scion Archetype (from the Ultimate Class Guide).

A Magus gains their spells by revelation via psychometric induction...which is a fancy way of saying they get it from objects. They have no spell book, no study requirement. They are more like a Sorcerer than a Wizard.

They do not take spell penalties for wearing armor, they can cast spells with their hands full and their mouths bound.

At low level, a Magus will likely beat a Wizard due to having better weapons, armor, and hit points, as well as a similar number of spells.

At high levels, the Wizard's top end spells will slowly turn the tide in their favor. Until at least level 5, however, he Magus should be a better character in most situations.

Thank you for your explaination, now I can see the class with a greater focus. That's a good concept!

Sorry about the error, I should have said 'Occultist" instead of Magus for everything except the first time I used the word Magus.


Broxxigan wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

-----

With the Conjure Implements focus power, can you create implements made of special materials (Adamantine, Silver, Cold Iron, etc)?

My guess is no, you conjure a generic implement, though one of good quality.


I admit, I am a skill monkey, I think a character should have as many skills as possible. That said, I think 4+Int is the right level for the character...for normal skills.


I can see that actually, the Phantom is not casting the spell, the Spiritualist is. Therefore, it will not interrupt the spell for the Phantom to make a normal attack.


A container of any kind could be a possible conjuration implement...a water skin that can conjure water could be handy for example.

Zwordsman: I did suggest that as an alternate to common implements I think. Have a rune for each sub school or the like, though that would probably be an archetype.


Jesuncolo wrote:

I can say I can't understand the flavour of the occultist. It doesn't resonate to me as anything in particular, I can't understand it.

Could someone explain it a little better?

What's the difference between this and a wizard?

First, you need to compare to the right class, an occultist is very little like a Wizard, because they do not memorize spells, they do use weapons, and do wear armor.

The closest thing I have seen to an Occultist is a Magus with the Eldritch Scion Archetype (from the Ultimate Class Guide).

A Magus gains their spells by revelation via psychometric induction...which is a fancy way of saying they get it from objects. They have no spell book, no study requirement. They are more like a Sorcerer than a Wizard.

They do not take spell penalties for wearing armor, they can cast spells with their hands full and their mouths bound.

At low level, a Magus will likely beat a Wizard due to having better weapons, armor, and hit points, as well as a similar number of spells.

At high levels, the Wizard's top end spells will slowly turn the tide in their favor. Until at least level 5, however, he Magus should be a better character in most situations.


Zwordsman wrote:

I think an archetype that uses almost solely Sigils might be awesome.

Like in the vein of supernatural, hellblazer, etc. Carve/tatoo/draw runes all over your body.

Some really cool sigil runic spells.

Though maybe that would be a bit much for this set up

I am playing a character who is a variation of the Sorcerer who uses the "Ultimate Magic" Words of Power system, using runes as a focus (each work he knows is a rune in his pouch of runestones). You might consider something similar.

I am wondering what words of power any class that came after Ultimate Magic would know, the system seems to have never been used again...


Perhaps make is an optional class ability, a "you can choose this or that" type thing.


Thinking here: if the Kineticist is the specialist in kinetic powers, the Mesmerist the specialist in Projective Telepathy, the Occultist is an Psychometric energy focusing character and the Spiritualist is a limited channeler...I am not quite sure how you quantify the Medium, possibly a psychic channel to other planes. In any case, if the Psychic is supposed to be the generalist it should have some of the abilities of each of the other classes.

In any case, I was thinking one should be able to do many of the things other classes do with the psychic as spells. I can see a few of them, but think it is missing a few things.


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I was thinking perhaps you could give a phantom a Ghost Touch Weapon, and that it might be able to use...or even keep...the weapon.


Imbicatus wrote:
AlanDG2 wrote:
As an aside, I have played my Occultist briefly in PBP, and have noticed one skill it does not seem to have, that of Healing. It seems an odd omission, since they have healing magic.
Healing magic and the heal skill are two completely different things and in this case it makes sense that the occultist has access to healing magic through the psychometric knowledge granted by an item's past instead of their own ability. If they want to have heal as a class skill, they can use a trait to gain that training, but it isn't something that all occultists would automatically have training in.

No one has automatic training, but it seems odd it is not a class skill, if you train in it it is going to be well behind your numerous class skills.


I was just thinking, a Mesmerist, as currently designed, seems intended to be used just before entering a fray, with some knowledge of what to expect. It seems to me that a Mesmerist really needs to team up with a Spiritualist. The Phantom scouts the area, then the Mesmerist sets he party up just before entering the new room.


I have not really gotten a good handle on the Mesmerist...it seems a decent concept but I am not sure of how well it s developed.


Having to multiclass to make a viable character tends to indicate that the Mesmerist itself is not effective.

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