Help me with my pet Homebrew class: a Domain-using Magus

Homebrew and House Rules

This is the Tovenaar, a third party class which gives the player a large number of domain powers to use and ways to use them in combat. Sadly it's hideously executed, see my review at the bottom-right.

I'd appreciate some help homebrewing a more functional version. Here's my effort. I really like the idea; there are loads of flavorsome and mechanically interesting domain powers which can add some versatility and options to a martial beyond 'I hit the thing'. Also, the domain powers are really quite balanced, and giving someone loads of them and the ability to use more than one in a turn isn't the slightest bit overpowered. The one exception I've found is the Repose domain, where the ability to use a power twice in one turn is effectively instant-unconsciousness, but everything else is fine.

Main issue with my attempt is that it runs out of steam later on due to the lack of spellcasting, and there are very few feats which are useful or interesting for my Tovenaar. Some have suggested decoupling my class from the Magus, not sure how or whether to do that.

Thoughts, anyone?

Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

First quick skim, will read more in depth later.

If you want to remove it from the Magus, try decoupling it from the Magus chasse. What you have is a Magus Archetype, you get all the Magus abilities but trade out spellcasting for a bunch of domains. Try rethinking the basic structure of the class:
What is the theme you are trying for?
What about spellcasting do you not like?
What part of the Magus do you want to keep? Is it spell combat(full attack + touch ability)? if so why not try using a ranger or paladin chasse and giving it a similar touch ability?

Maybe you should start over, say making it more like a rogue or witch, where you can select from a list of talents, some of which are touch abilities. Or Maybe look at the Warpriest and their blessings. Maybe give them a times per day touch attack that scales with level (similar to the Kineticist) that you can upgrade or change with talents.

I'm chiefly interested in the interesting mechanics, no real plan for a theme or any fluff.
I took away spellcasting as Arcane spellcasting doesn't seem to fit in with a bunch of Divine abilities, and I was concerned about spellcasting + domain powers being overpowered.
I really want to keep the spell combat (full attack + touch ability). I started with magus and kind of want to keep it with magus because other classes just don't fit it as well; it's using spell-like abilities instead of spells but gaining multiple domains and getting some extra options for using them in combat seems very suited to the magus. Also, the idea of a 3/4 melee gish who uses powers and abilities to keep up with the 4/4s in combat.

Just not sure what other class really suits, or how to give this basic idea some high-level relevance.

what I see is a polytheistic holy warrior mystic.
this guy is a warrior at heart, but through divine inspiration, draws upon the powers of many gods at once.
if it were me, i would give him access to a number of inquisitions equal to an ability score modifier (WIS or CHA). BUT, these are not simply "on" all the time. instead, a limited number of rounds per day, he may enter a divine trance which allows him to access all of his inquisitions at once, essentially using barbarian's rage as a model. following a trance, he could be sickened for twice the number of rounds spent in this Mystic Trance.
tack this onto a full BAB with d10 Hit Dice, and mostly keep the rest intact.

maybe that's too weird but i figure you started this thread to generate any kinds of ideas. cheers.

Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I would say, if you don't like the arcane spell list, take a page out of the ACG. Just have him use the Cleric list but only up to level 6, or the Inquisitor list, since it is more combat oriented.

For the Domains/Inquisitions, I would suggest no more than 4 or 5 total. Like, level 1 pick 1, new one at level 4, 8, 12, and 14. Eliminating the Magus Arcana at those levels.

The Magus needs the Medium/Heavy armor class features because he is an arcane caster and has arcane spell failure, this guy does not since he either 1) doesn't cast spells or 2) is clearly a divine caster. I would drop the heavy armor proficiency class feature, since paladins are the only divine casters to get it and they are 4th level casters.

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I have to agree with the others here. Design-wise, it's kind of a mess because you gutted the entire class for fairly minor abilities. The class has a 3/4 BAB, but no spells. Most inquisitions are passive or swift action buffs designed specifically for a fighting class. As a result, an action economy benefit (mystic combat) isn't very useful. There aren't very many 1st level touch attack inquisitions, so their options are very limited.

All in all, I don't see the use of inquisitions as an on-par substitute for spell casting. Granting him additional ones as he levels up helps out, but still. A more interesting option (in my opinion) would be to make him a divine spell caster. I know we have the warpriest now, but the magus chassis is more interesting that the warpriest's.

Also, tell me about the progression for gaining inquisitions. He starts with two, and gains one at levels 2, 4, 7, 11, and 19. There is a sequence there up until you chose 19 instead fo 16, but it would make more sense if they were evenly spaced, such as 4, 7, 10, 13, 16. This progression would at least mirror when new spell levels are gained.

Cheers for the advice, fellas. Rainzax, that advise has been useful in helping me shape my fluff; 'polytheistic warrior mystic' should be great to build on.

My emphasis when building this class was for it to be credible homebrew for a GM to accept; thus I didn't want to risk making it overpowered, and as the archetype I based it on took off Spells I did the same. Evidently it's time for a re-think.

Ciaran- fair point. I was considering giving the Tovenaar the ability to cast one spell each day of each level he can cast from the domain slot at Cleric levels; not certain it fits in with a fighter and everything though.

j b 200, decent point, though I'm trying to make this guy a melee warrior first and a spellcaster/domain person second, and heavy armor fits in with that.

After some pondering, I've decided to expand the Tovenaar. I'm going to later make a standalone class, and for the moment an archetype for the Cleric and the Inquisitor. I think this satisfies the available flavor better and lets me create both a domain-buffer as well as a domain combat monster.

Here's what I have for the cleric. Comments would be greatly appreciated.

And here's what I have for the inquisitor. Comments again greatly appreciated. There are some feats on the second page.

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The conductive ability seems like a nice fit however...

1) I think it should have a 1 round duration if you have to activate it.

2) It's generally a big no no of archetype design to replace an ability you gain at a higher level with one you get at a lower level.

3) Why does she get an extra domain at 1st level when she gets solo tactics at 3rd level? They should be getting the domains at the same levels they get teamwork feats.

4) It's really lame to lose spellcasting because of conductive, especially when conductive already replaces an ability. Effectively halving spells known absolutely cripples a spontaneous caster.

If it were me, I'd make conductive be a judgment you must take at 1st level and have it only consume one use of a given ability. This would also allow you to make the ability scale as most inquisitions get better at 10th level.

Isn't there a feat to let an arcane class use a single clerical domain? There was in 3.5, I would think there would be here also.

Alan, there is no such feat.

1) I'd like for the Warrior to be able to use his domains relatively frequently, domains being his combat specialty. Note that Conductive already kinda restricts him in that each hit costs him 2 uses of a domain power. Plus, Inquisitors need their swift actions.

2) I'd argue that it's good general practice, but far from a hard rule. Look at Terracotta Monk, they swap out 9th-level evasion for a 10th-level ability. Look at the Infiltrator Inquisitor, they swap out Solo Tactics for the ability to cast spells of any alignment from level 1.

3) As demonstrated, it's not unprecedented for archetypes to mix up the levels abilities are added.

3.1) A domain is more powerful and more complicated than a teamwork feat so giving them at the same rate is inappropriate.

4) Nahhhhhhhhhh. Losing a spell known isn't the end of the world, particularly when compared with the Sorcerer, who gets less spells known when they learn a new level. I'm not saying it won't hurt, I'm just saying I don't see it as a crippling blow.

5) Making it a judgement is an interesting idea I have to say; could tie in well with replacing the -2 combat penalty. Still not sure on 'consume only one use of a given ability'. Remember that this archetype will get LOTS of domains and many aren't even all touch-powers so losing double doesn't seem necessarily hideous... though on the other hand domain powers are tied to your wisdom modifier so they're not going to increase dramatically as you level.

Thanks for your thoughts especially the judgement idea. Any thoughts on the feats on the second page?

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