Ring of Sustenance and the Kineticist


Rules Discussion

The Concordance

Does a Kineticist wearing a Ring of Sustenance only need 2 hours of sleep to recover all of their burn?


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

That should be the case. Specifically:

ROS wrote:
its wearer needs only sleep 2 hours per day to gain the benefit of 8 hours of sleep.
Burn wrote:

A full night’s rest removes all burn and

all associated nonlethal damage.
Healing, Combat section of CRB wrote:
With a full night's rest (8 hours of sleep or more)

The Concordance

Could you then sleep for 2 hours... Multiple times per day?


Well the item specifies "2 hours per day to benefit" so you could assume it only works 2 hours a day..

dunno honestly. It's never come up before with spellcasters?

The Concordance

1 person marked this as a favorite.

The item itself states that spellcasters can't benefit from it more than once per day.


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Spellcasters have a separate clause that indicated once per day on refreshing spells.

I would suppose that a GM would likely start saying that you're not tired enough to sleep if you tried to do it multiple times per day.


The 15 minute day is strongly discouraged.


? It's not valid just for the 15min days.
I've had days that last all day, but there were still time in between for some naps, especially if your party happens to contain the right people or supplies.

They could easily sleep during a trip from one area to anotehr where they migth get attacked. They might get their 2 hours-or they might lose the first round or two in combat.
a group might stop in the midddle of a dungeon or osmething for a short time period.

plenty of ways to take 1/12th a day break without it being a 15min day.

Scarab Sages

This kind of thing always comes up when new classes are presented.
Recovery is well established as happening once per day, perhaps twice in a single 24 hour period if you have the right resources on hand. MAYBE more if you really try, but that getting cheesy. This standard should be maintained.
I would consider the Kinetecist a spellcaster for the purposes of the ring (even though they aren't, technically).

The Concordance

1 person marked this as a favorite.

My asking this was two-fold.

To first, see if there was another interpretation, and second, to bring it to the attention of the developers, since one of the points of a playtest is to weed out corner cases.

I think this ring will be one of those "must have" items for every Kineticist, if language is not included in the class itself that clarifies "you may only recover burn through rest once per day", or something to that effect.

Scarab Sages

It is a cheesy loophole, but works as written.

Playtest is where you want these issues noticed.


If it exists for them, then it exists for bardic performance and rounds of rage, doesn't it? I know rounds of rage at least are recovered after eight hours of rest.


lots of people will carry some sleep inducing items to fail roll and maximize sleep moments

The Concordance

Choon wrote:
Recovery is well established as happening once per day, perhaps twice in a single 24 hour period if you have the right resources on hand. MAYBE more if you really try, but that getting cheesy. This standard should be maintained.

I was intrigued reading this. I played 3.5 before Pathfinder and I don't recall this actually being stated in either system. Practically it's difficult to rest more than 8 hours a day, let alone 16 (two "rest cycles"), so I've just always figured that to be the limiting factor.

In either system, is it stated anywhere that you can only "rest" once every 24 hours?

Choon wrote:
I would consider the Kinetecist a spellcaster for the purposes of the ring (even though they aren't, technically).

The actual restriction is this:

Ring of Sustenance wrote:
this does not allow a spellcaster to prepare spells more than once per day.

Which, as you pointed out, the Kineticist isn't a spellcaster. But, even if it was, the targeted benefit is the recovery of burn anyways.


2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

I suspect you can only get the benefit of one night's rest in one 24 hour period, no matter how it is obtained.


AlanDG2 wrote:
I suspect you can only get the benefit of one night's rest in one 24 hour period, no matter how it is obtained.

I agree with this. Consider that 24 hours of rest heals only twice the hit point damage and ability damage as 8 hours of rest. If you could benefit from 8 hours of rest more than once in a day, why not rest 8 hours three times in row to heal three times as much?


Serisan wrote:

That should be the case. Specifically:

ROS wrote:
its wearer needs only sleep 2 hours per day to gain the benefit of 8 hours of sleep.
Burn wrote:

A full night’s rest removes all burn and

all associated nonlethal damage.
Healing, Combat section of CRB wrote:
With a full night's rest (8 hours of sleep or more)

Based on this, the Ring would work wonderfully. You gain the "benefit" of 8 hours of sleep. Part of the "benefit" 8 hours of sleep (Ie: a full night's rest) gives to a Kineticist is the removal of all burn and non-lethal damage.

Canonically, the rules support the Ring.

However, as someone that loves his sleep, I wouldn't support it being used to take 2 hour naps through the day to regain powers. Just for nights where you need to take a watch or are in hostile territory which may prevent a full night's sleep. :P

Paizo Employee Designer

AlanDG2 wrote:
I suspect you can only get the benefit of one night's rest in one 24 hour period, no matter how it is obtained.

That's true, for reasons including Rhatahema's solid evidence. People with a RoS can't rest for 2 hours 12 times and recover 12x their level in hit points and 12 ability damage, after all.

The Concordance

Thanks, Mark!

Will there be language added to the Kineticist that clarifies they can't recover their burn more than once a day?

I just see it being one of those future questions that clutters up the Rules Forum otherwise.

Paizo Employee Designer

Azure Dragonfly wrote:

Thanks, Mark!

Will there be language added to the Kineticist that clarifies they can't recover their burn more than once a day?

I just see it being one of those future questions that clutters up the Rules Forum otherwise.

I don't think it needs to take any of my precious wordcount, when an attempt to recover multiple times a day like that would already violate the number of hp and ability damage you can recover in a day. Seems easier to just tell people or make a CRB FAQ for all attempts to rest more than once a day.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

But, but, what about all the narcoleptic kineticists out there?

The Concordance

As my Kineticist is a Pesh Addict, I may just grab it anyways.

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