A ConCurrent Update

I'm glad ConCurrent is still going, but I'm not hopeful as I couldn't find any available games during PaizoCon.

Keep an eye on your totals and let us know things that still look wrong or if they are looking good! Feedback is necessary for us to figure out the bugs and get the system rolling and for that we need you!

Screenshot of 3 GM sessions.

The bottom session was a game I ran at a buddy's house to introduce three new players to PFS2. The number of points are correct, 8, but they're not labeled as "GM Credits".

The middle session was a game I ran for Outpost III. It labels my points as "GM Credits", but I only have 8, and I was under the impression I'd get 10. Furthermore, the AcP Earned on the far right side is 0.00

The first session was a game I ran at a recurring event, so I assumed it was also worth more than 8 AcP. They are also not labeled as "GM Credits".

Hope that helps!

I'm glad ConCurrent is still going, but I'm not hopeful as I couldn't find any available games during PaizoCon.

I had great success with the very helpful folks in the looking for game channel. If you don’t get anything during registration, I’d encourage you to follow the Discord, hop into the channel about 30 minutes before game time, and ask for a game.

Most of the time, I was able to get into the specific game I wanted, but there was always something. And by the last 24 hours, there were a lot more no-shows as people burned themselves out a bit.

Nefreet, may I added the middle event's details to the list of known errors/examplar's I've been compiling and sharing with Tonya et al? While I had some examples of that, they got fixed for all my GM's with the previous codepush and I stopped including it in my master list.

Your first and third are pretty widespread from what I've seen. Its not that the should label the 8 as GM credits, but you should have second line:

8 Achievement Points - PFS(2ed)

1 Pathfinder Society (second edition) GM Credits

In particular that failure mode has been fixed for 1/2 the GMs I talk to by 'Refresh Points". Not sure why it only fixes some people though.

Awesome. Didn't think online society gaming would be for me but tried it out PaizoCon Online and had fun. Now if I can figure out the GM tools for Roll20 I can contribute too.

Add away!

Added, can you double check after 'Refresh Points' if the 1st and 3rd one are still wrong? While I was checking on my lodge's known issues, all the other examples of that error have been fixed.

Funny thing, I had *just* Refreshed my points earlier today. I guess that's another bug.

Everything looks good now except my first session still shows 8 points. That event has been recurring for years, hence its low event number and 150+ sessions, so IDK why it wouldn't register as getting the same bonus that, say, Outpost III granted.

I'm glad ConCurrent is still going, but I'm not hopeful as I couldn't find any available games during PaizoCon.

If you hop into the discord and check out the looking for game channel 5-10 minutes before the next "slot" you can find games. Most games at Paizocon only had 5 people signed up per table, so there was room.

Of course that won't help if there's nothing in tier or nothing you haven't already played before...

Funny thing, I had *just* Refreshed my points earlier today. I guess that's another bug.

Everything looks good now except my first session still shows 8 points. That event has been recurring for years, hence its low event number and 150+ sessions, so IDK why it wouldn't register as getting the same bonus that, say, Outpost III granted.

What makes you think that event is worth extra points?

It's a recurring store event, right?

Like you can roll for PFS1 Boons, check off Race Boon boxes for SFS, and get the extra AcP for playing/GMimg.

Home games are the ones where you can't do any of that.

Not all recurring store events are RSP (many are, but its not universal, its up to the local RVC)

Am I supposed to get 0.25 point for a Quest ran or I get an extra 0.25 everytime I run it this repeatable Quest for PF2?

Just as clarification: GM signups are open for approximately another 26 hours from this post, not another two hours.

Thanks for clarifying that, Alex! <3

It would be best to put 23:55 to take out the confusion.

Very cool of the OPS folks!

Not all recurring store events are RSP (many are, but its not universal, its up to the local RVC)

What does RSP have to do with it?

There's personal events (home games), premier events (Cons and recurring store events), and premier plus events (PaizoCon et all).

Right?

Store events only count as premier if they are designated by the RVC as RSP, at least last I heard.

Then what's the point of going to a game store if home games offer the same AcP?

I thought "events", regardless of how small they were, were supposed to offer more.

I feel like that's come up, every time this comes up. Same with 'what's the point of going to a con, when the weekly store game offers the same rewards'. its why some people are pushing for four tiers instead of three, etc.

I think in general "events" are supposed to offer more, but events often mean Game Days, or mini cons, or larger, rather than a weekly store game. Its meant to be on a region by region basis, (ie RVCs making the call for what makes sense based on the accessibility of premier/premier plus events for their members, etc). And I think there's been a fair bit of 'one region's normal being communicated as the system wide expectation.'

Happy to see that ConCurrent is still going on strong.
Thanks everyone that volunteer to make this happen

events often mean Game Days, or mini cons, or larger, rather than a weekly store game.

Aren't "Game Days" the same as "weekly store games"?

Eric Nielsen wrote:

events often mean Game Days, or mini cons, or larger, rather than a weekly store game.

Aren't "Game Days" the same as "weekly store games"?

No, a Game Day usually refers to multiple slots of games on the same day, usually a Saturday.

We've discovered that 'Game Day' has different meanings depending on where you are. You're both right -- depending on your local gaming community.

An old event (such as playing in a game store every week) may have been part of the RSP; but that doesn't mean it's automatically qualifying for Premium event.
If you believe it does, you should contact your local VA/VL to take it up the chain - decision on which events qualify as premium is made by the RVC's. You won't get extra ACP for the event unless the event is tagged as Premium, and that's something only the RVC can do.

*scratches head*

So, for every store game I sign up for (and I'm one of those rare people who drives hours to visit distant stores, often), I have to ask ahead of time, every time, whether that venue grants bonus AcP?

And... It doesn't sound like there's a good chance the average event will qualify?

Whyyy... I'm not understanding this.

Like, how are stores not furious about this?

Like, how are stores not furious about this?

They're still closed for the apocalypse

Then what's the point of going to a game store if home games offer the same AcP?

I love how Organized Play means you are meeting and interacting with new people all the time (it’s one of the big draws for me). But I can think of a dozen reasons why I’d rather offer a game open to anyone and everyone at a public location instead of my home.

Then what's the point of going to a game store if home games offer the same AcP?

For some, it's because they don't have a local group of friends to play at home. (Or, as is my case, said group of friends play different systems and show no interest in Pathfinder or Starfinder.) In which case, going to a store can means groups of people get together to play, even when they can't in any other fashion. Also, it means playing in the store brings in more business to the store. Which is a Good Thing (tm) in my book. Supporting one's FLGS that is.

Are there preset Starfinder Repeatable tables on R20 for the convention that could be cloned for this?

I'm having a rough time trying to make maps work, and it's a huge stumbling block to volunteering to help on-line.

Then what's the point of going to a game store if home games offer the same AcP?

I thought "events", regardless of how small they were, were supposed to offer more.

Well, there's meeting new people, making friends, finding some fresh faces for home games etc.

Originally RSP was intended to do a couple of things:
- bridge the boon gap for people who can't go to conventions
- allow RVCs to put a spotlight on specific locations to promote them

Doing RSP for the first reason isn't really necessary anymore, because AcP does allow people to get some boons that they could previously only get via conventions.

The second reason, well, it can still be used for that, but putting a spotlight on a particular location to make it stand out means not putting a spotlight on all locations.

For example, in our lodge, there's a board game convention every quarter, which is a good place for us to demo the game and get new players. But it's just one afternoon and could never make it up to the table limits for convention support. But the new style RSP is a good tool to spotlight it.

*scratches head*

So, for every store game I sign up for (and I'm one of those rare people who drives hours to visit distant stores, often), I have to ask ahead of time, every time, whether that venue grants bonus AcP?

Why? I mean, you'll get your AcP whether you asked ahead or not. And if this particular venue has bonus AcP then the organizer probably wants to inform you of that to lure you in.

*scratches head*

So, for every store game I sign up for (and I'm one of those rare people who drives hours to visit distant stores, often), I have to ask ahead of time, every time, whether that venue grants bonus AcP?

And... It doesn't sound like there's a good chance the average event will qualify?

Whyyy... I'm not understanding this.

Well, presumably you go to play at these events because you like the people and enjoy the game.

There will always be rewards that are escalated for conventions because organizer response has been very consistent in that they need incentives for people to attend since conventions generally have a cost involved and like you said, “why would I go [there] when I can go [there] for free?” Personally, I think that methodology is hokum, but Paizo supports it. So AcP is supposed to award the standard level to non-public games, and “normally occurring” public games.

If your regularly occurring public event (some call it GamDay) gets the designation from an RVC because they are trying to support targeted growth or support a faltering venue, or a myriad of other reasons, then it receives premier status, in the same way all conventions do.

Finally, there are the premier plus events which are primarily the Paizo-sponsored events (Gen Con, Origins, UK Games Expo, Pax Unplugged, PaizoCon) but also any “tier 1” (75+ tables) event also qualifies. Additionally, to accommodate regions that do not have tier 1 conventions, the RVC can designate a limited number of events to qualify as premier plus. Likely these are the largest in the region, but other factors can come into play.

Those are rules. Fairly simple really. Now if you want to argue the philosophy that is a different discussion entirely.

Nefreet wrote:

Then what's the point of going to a game store if home games offer the same AcP?

I thought "events", regardless of how small they were, were supposed to offer more.

Well, there's meeting new people, making friends, finding some fresh faces for home games etc.

Originally RSP was intended to do a couple of things:
- bridge the boon gap for people who can't go to conventions
- allow RVCs to put a spotlight on specific locations to promote them

Doing RSP for the first reason isn't really necessary anymore, because AcP does allow people to get some boons that they could previously only get via conventions.

The second reason, well, it can still be used for that, but putting a spotlight on a particular location to make it stand out means not putting a spotlight on all locations.

For example, in our lodge, there's a board game convention every quarter, which is a good place for us to demo the game and get new players. But it's just one afternoon and could never make it up to the table limits for convention support. But the new style RSP is a good tool to spotlight it.

Emphasis added:

The criteria for RSP was pretty clear and simple, while the criteria for premier events is... RVC decides. This also ties in with the earlier discussion about *1.25 or *1.5 ACP not being enough of an incentive for GMing in a con, but that's a matter of perspective.

Until we start seeing non-con premier events and the criteria that RVC use to decide which events qualify and for how long they do count as premier, and how venues are using the premier status to promote themselves, it's hard to say how it impacts organized play growth.

The criteria for RSP was pretty clear and simple, while the criteria for premier events is...RVC decides

Actually the criteria is exactly the same. When I was RVC, only events I designated were given RSP. However, I decided all events were worthy and I approved every public event in the region as RSP (except conventions). The only ones that didn’t have it were because the organizer (VA) did not ask and even those I pressured to participate. The criteria for determining the Premier/Plus events is the same because every region, especially the ones outside the continental US, have unique aspects that prevent there being any set of universal qualifiers. If you are interested in learning what qualifiers your RVC is using, you’ll have to ask them directly, though given historical context, many of them won’t reply to your inquiry.

I don't seem to be getting any AcP (at least based on what's displayed) for repeat GMing of Quest 7; sometiems it shows 0, sometimes nothing, though I got AcP for the first time I ran it. Other non-repeatable scenarios (Quest 6 and scenario #1-08, for example) do give AcP for each time GMing, so I'm wondering if that's an issue with Quest 7 in particular.

What arbitrary criteria categorizes one game store as worthy of bonus AcP compared to the next?

This is how I'm imagining my future visits to distant game stores. I have 16 to choose from (according to Warhorn):

Two game stores are running Friday night games. I reach out to the organizer of each. One offers bonus AcP, and the other does not. So I go to the store that offers bonus AcP.

The organizer of the other store reaches out to the RVC and requests bonus AcP for their venue. Ideally they get it, and I can continue going to either store.

But what if that request is denied?

What "authority" does Paizo have to dictate which game stores I go to? How does this conflict get resolved? I imagine the store's response would inevitably be to ban tables of Pathfinder and Starfinder, since some volunteer somewhere decided on a whim to say "no".

Right?

Why not just make every public venue eligible for bonus AcP to eliminate the need for drama, arbitrary oversight, lost revenue and bad PR?

Assignment of bonus AcP does not dictate anything.

While you may know what the criteria is, it's not clearly spelled out:
Old:

Any location running public games may apply for RSP event status, provided they have a venture-officer associated with the location.

Regional Support Program

Program Goals: Encourage growth and support events that don't qualify for Paizo convention support.
Qualifying Location: Any location with an associated venture-officer of any rank, from agent to regional coordinator.
Qualifying Event: Any public event at a qualifying location.

Criteria: The event must run 15+ sessions run within a period of 3 days in a non-retail, public location. The event must register on paizo.com and advertise online.

...
Selection Method: All events that meet the criteria and are submitted on time will receive support. Submissions received after the deadline will be handled on a case-by-case basis.

Meanwhile, new:

Premier events include many conventions and special events designated by the Regional Venture-Coordinator. Premier Plus events include special shows (such as the Gen Con, Origins, and PaizoCon conventions) where Pathfinder Society has a special presence and often debuts major adventures.

Many cons and events strongly implies Not All. If the criteria for Premier convention is the same as it used to be for convention support (15 slots in 3 days), it would definitely be nice to know that, and spell it out.

I'm just speaking of regular game days at game stores, not conventions.

Why not just make every public venue eligible for bonus AcP to eliminate the need for drama, arbitrary oversight, lost revenue and bad PR?

I assume it's the work involved. Sending a VO the RSP package requires a lot less work than tagging an event as Premier in the database. If our regular game-shop game-days counted as Premier, either I'd need to make a new event for that specific location and report all games run there by all our GM's, or add GM's to that event every time a new person wants to GM there and ensure that they report the games to that event instead of whatever their old event used to be - when running in that location but not the other one. If the other store also gets approved for Premier, I'll need to make a new event for that, OR ask GM's to use the first event for reporting instead of whatever they may have used before.

Compared to the old system: A new GM? Make yourself an event and report the games there. VO handles the boons.

Alternatively, we could have one event for each city/region for public Premier games. Less events for RVC to tag as premier, but more work for the VC/VL's managing GM permissions or raporting games.
OR, maybe we could have just one event number for the whole country, and report all premier-qualifying under that same number, but again this requires considerably more work on VO's for adding GM's into the event OR having GM's forward the reporting sheets to VO's for reporting.

Nefreet, I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that a weekly game ever qualified for any special bonus for running games. It never did for PFS1, and so far hasn't for PFS2. I have NO experience with Starfinder, so I can't speak to that.

My understanding (limited though it may be) is that running a game at a 'regular' event would give typical AcP.

Running at a local con or special event would be the next tier.

Running at GenCon, PaizoCon, PaizoConUK, and maybe Origins, would be the top tier.

I understand that second tier could be spelled out better. I would be surprised if any RVC would consider a consistent weekly recurring game in a store a 'special event'. I don't think that was ever implied, nor intended.

Any update yet on when Age of Ashes sanctioning will be released? it was mention that it was finished and just needed to be uploaded, but I haven’t seen anything yet

I think the issue may be that we used to have four-ish reward tiers:

Old situation
Mega convention - gets big boons
Regular convention - gets standard boons
Game day with RSP - gets lesser boons
(Game day without RSP - should not be common, no boons)
Home game - no boons

New situation
Premier Plus convention - gets 1.5x AcP
Premier convention or game day - gets 1.25x AcP
Convention or game day without premier status or home game - 1x AcP

There's basically one less tier in the structure; conventions and "boosted" game days are mashed together, and non-boosted game days and home games are mashed together.

I don't think it's a good idea to keep using the name RSP for something that behaves quite differently from the previous RSP. The previous program was de facto in every store with a VA who filled in the paperwork. The current program is more focused on local conventions and events that have a similar role.

I think giving RVCs discretion to assign certain events Premier status is a good thing: the old system was too rigidly focused on table count, which meant that you couldn't get any perks for an event like running demos at a board game convention.

But we've lost a distinction in rewards between home games and store games. Whether that's a real problem is a fair question. I don't think it is a problem in my area, because our players like the flexibility that a bigger player pool gives them, compared to a home game.

Nefreet, I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that a weekly game ever qualified for any special bonus for running games.It never did for PFS1, and so far hasn't for PFS2.

They did, weekly games in public locations qualified for regional support:

Also, there's the RSP equivalent forOSP which is basically "any game you run online as long as you advertise it in the right place and recruitment is open for all."

Speaking of OSP - If the criteria is the same for Premier Events as it was for RSP, why do 1e games run in Online region count for OSP but 2e games run in the same setting do not count as premier?

Oh right, RSP was for possibly earning those seasonal boons. But everyone got a chance at that, right? It wasn't that GMs got MORE chances.

Oh right, RSP was for possibly earning those seasonal boons. But everyone got a chance at that, right? It wasn't that GMs got MORE chances.

Everyone who participated (GM & Player) had a percentile chance to earn one of that year's six boons. GMs also earned annual race boons by running games.

What arbitrary criteria categorizes one game store as worthy of bonus AcP compared to the next?

Sounds like a question to ask your RVC rather than make a bunch of assumptions and speculations

One offers bonus AcP, and the other does not. So I go to the store that offers bonus AcP

Well, to be perfectly honest if the only thing you are using to decide which stores to support is the difference of 2 AcP, that is pretty shallow, IMO.

But what if that request is denied?

As the ultime authority of the OP program, seems obvious they have the authority to do whatever they want. Course, they traditionally only facilitate the program, and leave the administration of it to the volunteers who have direct contact with their local communities and can make more informed decisions about what is "best."

What "authority" does Paizo have to dictate which game stores I go to?

None. Not sure of the relevance of the question.

I imagine the store's response would inevitably be to ban tables of Pathfinder and Starfinder, since some volunteer somewhere decided on a whim to say "no".

That's an assumption that the decision is being made on a whim. Rarely, IME, is that the case.

Why not just make every public venue eligible for bonus AcP to eliminate the need for drama, arbitrary oversight, lost revenue and bad PR?

Because most organizers have expressed the concern, just like we did for RSP, that there needs to be a difference between regularly occurring "standard" events and convention events because it costs more to attend a con, so the theory is you have to provide a greater reward. Rather than give all gamestores and local public events premier status, we should just eliminate the discretionary bonus and just make all events that do not qualify as conventions "standard" for AcP. That would alleviate your concern over having some GameDays worth more than others.