Meet the Iconics: Navasi

Faelyn wrote:

Odraude wrote:

I like her hair. I wish I could dye my hair and not look dumb.

Amen... back in my younger days I tried dying my hair black with red tips (like blood red). Within two days the red had faded to copper and I quickly earned the nickname Duracell from my buddies...

You should create that alias. ;)

You mean, like this one?

Lord Fyre wrote:

Faelyn wrote:

Odraude wrote:

I like her hair. I wish I could dye my hair and not look dumb.

Amen... back in my younger days I tried dying my hair black with red tips (like blood red). Within two days the red had faded to copper and I quickly earned the nickname Duracell from my buddies...

You should create that alias. ;)

You mean, like this one?

Yes!

Not really sure how I feel. Spoiled rich kid rebels, gets in over head, see how good she really had it. Not really new there. Best friends tragic death leads her to become a better person. Not really all that new either. I kind feel like I've seen this character already. I guess thats why we play our own characters. Not a bad origin just doesnt feel like anything new either.

Of course this will be a common theme seeing as there is no new story under the sun. This is an archetype and a very common one for wealthy characters that befriend and wish to help poor characters. They character has her own little twists and that is what makers her unique.

The backstory of Navasi is ambiguous enough for everyone to have their own interpretation of the character. Interpretations of Navasi should all be personal and up to who's playing that character.

So let's talk about her gear.

Weapons I'm guessing a flame gun and an energy pistol of some type, several grenades and short sword which looks to have a wooden handle.

Is the sword a regular sword? Mono-Edged, magic, energy, vibro etc?

Attire...umm adventurer's jump suit? Looks to be rugged and comfortable with no real armour to speak of. More of a don't get cuts and scrapes when you're tumbling around then combat protection. Well besides the back of the hands and the tops of the feet/ankle area which has some armour. Maybe the whole suit is impact/puncture/energy resistant? Temperature regulation? Radiation proof? Chameleon like colour changes?

Like pew pew... :)

So let's talk about her gear.

Weapons I'm guessing a flame gun and an energy pistol of some type, several grenades and short sword which looks to have a wooden handle.

Is the sword a regular sword? Mono-Edged, magic, energy, vibro etc?

Attire...umm adventurer's jump suit? Looks to be rugged and comfortable with no real armour to speak of. More of a don't get cuts and scrapes when you're tumbling around then combat protection. Well besides the back of the hands and the tops of the feet/ankle area which has some armour. Maybe the whole suit is impact/puncture/energy resistant? Temperature regulation? Radiation proof? Chameleon like colour changes?

Like pew pew... :)

I like the fact that her poncho? has a very kapenia feel to it with the colors chosen... specifically the Orange, which is the adventure color to Varisians! And the purple accent could be her beginning to understand a wider world of divinity?

Lemartes wrote:

So let's talk about her gear.

Weapons I'm guessing a flame gun and an energy pistol of some type, several grenades and short sword which looks to have a wooden handle.

Is the sword a regular sword? Mono-Edged, magic, energy, vibro etc?

Attire...umm adventurer's jump suit? Looks to be rugged and comfortable with no real armour to speak of. More of a don't get cuts and scrapes when you're tumbling around then combat protection. Well besides the back of the hands and the tops of the feet/ankle area which has some armour. Maybe the whole suit is impact/puncture/energy resistant? Temperature regulation? Radiation proof? Chameleon like colour changes?

Like pew pew... :)

I like the fact that her poncho? has a very kapenia feel to it with the colors chosen... specifically the Orange, which is the adventure color to Varisians! And the purple accent could be her beginning to understand a wider world of divinity?

I like the "poncho" too. It almost has a built in gorget. Maybe it has some special abilities and or is magic? I wonder if the two metal sigils are more that just sigils. Possibly a mark of some god?

I'm not sure why several people have referred to her as "communist." There's nothing communist in her description.

Navasi still believes in freedom for all, spreading the wealth, and taking plutocrats down a peg—but she also knows the value of earning credits, and takes pride in the ability to take care of herself and her crew (though she still has a sometimes inconvenient tendency to empty her pockets for those in need).

The freedom part is entirely negating alone, there's nothing here about using violence to assign people to bureaucratically determined jobs and ban the ability to freely cooperate outside that system.

I should preface this with the fact that this is highly speculative, but on the topic of the Sixth Finger, there was a pathfinder minor god known as Vineshvakhi who cut of the SIX fingers of his hand, creating the six fingered creatures known as calikangs. It's unlikely, but it's a possible origin. That said, Vineshvakhi is extremely Lawful, so I can't imagine the Sixth Finger being a commonly excepted sect of Vineshvakhi's clergy at least. However the Sixth Finger has goals which seem in a very ironic opossition to Vineshvakhi, that it could be more than coincidence. While Vineshvakhi focuses on the defense and security of valuables, the Sixth Finger is a theives guild focused on stealing such valuables. Could be more than coincidence. Maybe while the first five fingers resulted in being which reflected their progenitor's values, the sixth finger intentionally rejected those same values. Again I'm really reaching here, but it's the only thing I could find when researching anything that could relate to the Sixth Finger.

I should preface this with the fact that this is highly speculative, but on the topic of the Sixth Finger, there was a pathfinder minor god known as Vineshvakhi who cut of the SIX fingers of his hand, creating the six fingered creatures known as calikangs. It's unlikely, but it's a possible origin. That said, Vineshvakhi is extremely Lawful, so I can't imagine the Sixth Finger being a commonly excepted sect of Vineshvakhi's clergy at least. However the Sixth Finger has goals which seem in a very ironic opossition to Vineshvakhi, that it could be more than coincidence. While Vineshvakhi focuses on the defense and security of valuables, the Sixth Finger is a theives guild focused on stealing such valuables. Could be more than coincidence. Maybe while the first five fingers resulted in being which reflected their progenitor's values, the sixth finger intentionally rejected those same values.

Nice connection right or wrong.

I'm not sure why several people have referred to her as "communist." There's nothing communist in her description.

Quote:

Navasi still believes in freedom for all, spreading the wealth, and taking plutocrats down a peg—but she also knows the value of earning credits, and takes pride in the ability to take care of herself and her crew (though she still has a sometimes inconvenient tendency to empty her pockets for those in need).

The freedom part is entirely negating alone, there's nothing here about using violence to assign people to bureaucratically determined jobs and ban the ability to freely cooperate outside that system.

I think you are working under an extremely narrow and biased view of communism. "Violence to assign people to beuareactically determined jobs" isn't inhernet in communism. Not to say that it hasn't occured in "communist nations."(but also occurs on a much more subtler level in capitalism). People see in her the idea of the redistribution of wealth from the privilieged owners of industry to the poor and disenfranchised.

Plausible Pseudonym wrote:

I'm not sure why several people have referred to her as "communist." There's nothing communist in her description.

Quote:

Navasi still believes in freedom for all, spreading the wealth, and taking plutocrats down a peg—but she also knows the value of earning credits, and takes pride in the ability to take care of herself and her crew (though she still has a sometimes inconvenient tendency to empty her pockets for those in need).

The freedom part is entirely negating alone, there's nothing here about using violence to assign people to bureaucratically determined jobs and ban the ability to freely cooperate outside that system.

I think you are working under an extremely narrow and biased view of communism. "Violence to assign people to beuareactically determined jobs" isn't inhernet in communism. Not to say that it hasn't occured in "communist nations."(but also occurs on a much more subtler level in capitalism). People see in her the idea of the redistribution of wealth from the privilieged owners of industry to the poor and disenfranchised.

If we're going to discuss this lets at least remember to discuss it civilly and from a purely economic standpoint, not a social or political one. All governmental structures contain various aspects, but we really have very little way to establish political leanings, primarily because the political landscape of a universe like Starfinder can not be established within the constraints of modern political theory, so there's very little point or value in attempting to project a political leaning (and I'm saying this as someone who admittedly and resentfully identifies as having political leanings). That said, even modern economic theory is a difficult structure to analyze a theoretical futuristic spacefaring society, so do be aware of that, and try to assume everyone would (in a perfect world) want to establish happiness for everyone. With all that said, try to stay on the topic of Navasi. She's a pretty cool iconic, and I'm seriously hoping for a comic series that showcases her and her companions (*cough* pretty please *cough*).

Did anyone else notice Weydan kind of rhymes with Cayden? Just sayin'.

I'm not sure why several people have referred to her as "communist." There's nothing communist in her description.

Quote:

Navasi still believes in freedom for all, spreading the wealth, and taking plutocrats down a peg—but she also knows the value of earning credits, and takes pride in the ability to take care of herself and her crew (though she still has a sometimes inconvenient tendency to empty her pockets for those in need).

The freedom part is entirely negating alone, there's nothing here about using violence to assign people to bureaucratically determined jobs and ban the ability to freely cooperate outside that system.

I think people are mixing up 'egalitarian' with 'communist'. Either that or the Robin Hood aspect. I don't know. She kind of fits my personality, and I am a social libertarian.

So let's talk about her gear.

Weapons I'm guessing a flame gun and an energy pistol of some type, several grenades and short sword which looks to have a wooden handle.

Is the sword a regular sword? Mono-Edged, magic, energy, vibro etc?

Attire...umm adventurer's jump suit? Looks to be rugged and comfortable with no real armour to speak of. More of a don't get cuts and scrapes when you're tumbling around then combat protection. Well besides the back of the hands and the tops of the feet/ankle area which has some armour. Maybe the whole suit is impact/puncture/energy resistant? Temperature regulation? Radiation proof? Chameleon like colour changes?

Like pew pew... :)

She has what seems to be a techno-pistol as her main weapon, we have seen it in a lot of art already and it has blue muzzle flashes but if that means kinetic or energy yet i dont know. Her secondary pistol is a real stand out from all of the other equipment aesthetics we've seen so far which is one of the reasons i think it could be from the previous Navasi. Her melee weapon looks very utilitarian but maybe is a vibro-blade just to be more spacey... there is at least one piece of art though depicting her with what looks kind of like a cinquedea that is fairly elaborate and looks much more Pathfinder than Starfinder. Possibly an ancient treasure preserved by its magic into the far future?

Her suit has enough added plates for her ankles, legs/knees and forearms/elbows that i wouldnt be surprised if it was all part of some soft armor, probably the equivalent of light or a chain shirt in space. what has surprised me much more is that none of the iconics seem to be wearing armor that can be environmentally sealed. The Ysoki had a gas mask at one point and that is the closest any of them have gotten as far as what i have seen. I wonder how such things will be handled in the system and setting, i had been toying with the idea of a character who is something of a control freak and prefers to stay in a vac suit due to being able to tune every facet of its sealed environment.

Did anyone else notice Weydan kind of rhymes with Cayden? Just sayin'.

Desna and Cayden had a kid? Can you imagine Cayden as a parent?

Did anyone else notice Weydan kind of rhymes with Cayden? Just sayin'.

While not a core deity of Starfinder, according to James Sutter, Cayden is still alive. Although he did say that he might have passed out. You'd think a god would find a way around getting black out drunk. I can only assume this means that alcohol is more powerful than the gods. All hail beer, the greatest of the gods.

Cool!

Swashbuckles wrote:

Did anyone else notice Weydan kind of rhymes with Cayden? Just sayin'.

Desna and Cayden had a kid? Can you imagine Cayden as a parent?

Yes. In fact, I'd say that I have seen far too many drunken parents in my lifetime.

Did anyone else notice Weydan kind of rhymes with Cayden? Just sayin'.

"famous for taking mortal form" lends some credence to that too...

Lemartes wrote:

So let's talk about her gear.

Weapons I'm guessing a flame gun and an energy pistol of some type, several grenades and short sword which looks to have a wooden handle.

Is the sword a regular sword? Mono-Edged, magic, energy, vibro etc?

Attire...umm adventurer's jump suit? Looks to be rugged and comfortable with no real armour to speak of. More of a don't get cuts and scrapes when you're tumbling around then combat protection. Well besides the back of the hands and the tops of the feet/ankle area which has some armour. Maybe the whole suit is impact/puncture/energy resistant? Temperature regulation? Radiation proof? Chameleon like colour changes?

Like pew pew... :)

She has what seems to be a techno-pistol as her main weapon, we have seen it in a lot of art already and it has blue muzzle flashes but if that means kinetic or energy yet i dont know. Her secondary pistol is a real stand out from all of the other equipment aesthetics we've seen so far which is one of the reasons i think it could be from the previous Navasi. Her melee weapon looks very utilitarian but maybe is a vibro-blade just to be more spacey... there is at least one piece of art though depicting her with what looks kind of like a cinquedea that is fairly elaborate and looks much more Pathfinder than Starfinder. Possibly an ancient treasure preserved by its magic into the far future?

Her suit has enough added plates for her ankles, legs/knees and forearms/elbows that i wouldnt be surprised if it was all part of some soft armor, probably the equivalent of light or a chain shirt in space. what has surprised me much more is that none of the iconics seem to be wearing armor that can be environmentally sealed. The Ysoki had a gas mask at one point and that is the closest any of them have gotten as far as what i have seen. I wonder how such things will be handled in the system and setting, i had been toying with the idea of a character who is something of a control freak and prefers to stay in a vac suit...

A status like weapon such as a cinquedea I suppose fits a captain.

I totally missed that piece of art.

Plausible Pseudonym wrote:

I'm not sure why several people have referred to her as "communist." There's nothing communist in her description.

Quote:

Navasi still believes in freedom for all, spreading the wealth, and taking plutocrats down a peg—but she also knows the value of earning credits, and takes pride in the ability to take care of herself and her crew (though she still has a sometimes inconvenient tendency to empty her pockets for those in need).

The freedom part is entirely negating alone, there's nothing here about using violence to assign people to bureaucratically determined jobs and ban the ability to freely cooperate outside that system.

I think you are working under an extremely narrow and biased view of communism. "Violence to assign people to beuareactically determined jobs" isn't inhernet in communism. Not to say that it hasn't occured in "communist nations."(but also occurs on a much more subtler level in capitalism). People see in her the idea of the redistribution of wealth from the privilieged owners of industry to the poor and disenfranchised.

Please don't romantize communism. Millions suffered because of it, including my family.

Swashbuckles wrote:

Did anyone else notice Weydan kind of rhymes with Cayden? Just sayin'.

While not a core deity of Starfinder, according to James Sutter, Cayden is still alive. Although he did say that he might have passed out. You'd think a god would find a way around getting black out drunk. I can only assume this means that alcohol is more powerful than the gods. All hail beer, the greatest of the gods.

So, if we include Weydan, we now know that the Starfinder core 20 are:

1. Pharasma
2. Abadar
3. Iomedae
4. Sarenrae
5. Desna
6. Urgathoa
7. Zon-Kuthon
8. AI God (has the name been revealed yet?)
9. Weydan
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
15.
16.
17.
18.
19.
20.

So, we still don't know who 11 of the gods are yet, huh? But, we do know about Xenowardens (space druids), so I wonder what "nature god" they might worship since we know Gozreh didn't make it?

I'll wager that some of the these empty slots will be existing gods or powers that were not a part of the core 20 from Pathfinder, like Besmara, Brigh, Sun Wukong, or an ascended demon lord, angel, or maybe even a great old one... or two or three.

Archmage Variel wrote:

Swashbuckles wrote:

Did anyone else notice Weydan kind of rhymes with Cayden? Just sayin'.

While not a core deity of Starfinder, according to James Sutter, Cayden is still alive. Although he did say that he might have passed out. You'd think a god would find a way around getting black out drunk. I can only assume this means that alcohol is more powerful than the gods. All hail beer, the greatest of the gods.

So, if we include Weydan, we now know that the Starfinder core 20 are:

1. Pharasma
2. Abadar
3. Iomedae
4. Sarenrae
5. Desna
6. Urgathoa
7. Zon-Kuthon
8. AI God (has the name been revealed yet?)
9. Weydan
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
15.
16.
17.
18.
19.
20.

So, we still don't know who 11 of the gods are yet, huh? But, we do know about Xenowardens (space druids), so I wonder what "nature god" they might worship since we know Gozreh didn't make it?

I'll wager that some of the these empty slots will be existing gods or powers that were not a part of the core 20 from Pathfinder, like Besmara, Brigh, Sun Wukong, or an ascended demon lord, angel, or maybe even a great old one... or two or three.

It just occurred to me that we need the next Paizo blog to be a Top 20 countdown style article on the gods of Starfinder. Who will get the top spot this week?!

I'm going to step in here and put the brakes on the train wreck that is going on here. I've removed a bunch of posts, replies and comments on posts and some random derailments that got out of hand. If you have a burning desire to recover the text of a lengthy posts, please email community@paizo.com. Jessica's post sums it up nicely and should be considered the guideline for how to continue the thread.

It would be nice if this thread about the blog post didn't devolve, like threads about characters who aren't straight white men are wont to do, into an argument about whether representation is necessary.

I think it's fairly clear that the creative staff believes it is necessary, and that's not going to change. Allowing the thread to become solely about whether it's okay that Navasi's in a romantic relationship with a woman is, whether intentionally or not, ensuring that same-sex relationships continue to be treated as abnormal, and characters in them aren't allowed to be about anything but their sexuality.

So I suggest moving on and ignoring further attempts at such derailment.

Archmage Variel wrote:

Swashbuckles wrote:

Did anyone else notice Weydan kind of rhymes with Cayden? Just sayin'.

While not a core deity of Starfinder, according to James Sutter, Cayden is still alive. Although he did say that he might have passed out. You'd think a god would find a way around getting black out drunk. I can only assume this means that alcohol is more powerful than the gods. All hail beer, the greatest of the gods.

So, if we include Weydan, we now know that the Starfinder core 20 are:

1. Pharasma
2. Abadar
3. Iomedae
4. Sarenrae
5. Desna
6. Urgathoa
7. Zon-Kuthon
8. AI God (has the name been revealed yet?)
9. Weydan
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
15.
16.
17.
18.
19.
20.

So, we still don't know who 11 of the gods are yet, huh? But, we do know about Xenowardens (space druids), so I wonder what "nature god" they might worship since we know Gozreh didn't make it?

The A.I. god's name has, at least for now, been revealed as triune (although I haven't seen it spelled out and am only doing it as I would guess it would read in the english language). There also seemed to be some hinting that triune was comprised of multiple a.i., and that multiple races worked in conjunction in order to create it. It is also the reason we have access to the Drift.

Okay, so if we update it with Triune's name, the Starfinder core 20 list goes like:

1. Pharasma
2. Abadar
3. Iomedae
4. Sarenrae
5. Desna
6. Urgathoa
7. Zon-Kuthon
8. Triune
9. Weydan
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
15.
16.
17.
18.
19.
20.

We still know less than half of the gods that will end up in Starfinder's core 20.

In regards to the story, I really like how she took on her deceased friend/lover/whatever's identity. In my opinion that is a very subtle way of bringing to light Navasi's thoughts of self-identity. She is willing to basically cast aside her very identity not simply to just avoid being captured, but to honor this person that held such an important place in her heart.

Sorry, this also seemed more "Dread Pirate Roberts" to me...

The end of the story is actually creepier to me if Navasi and her friend were romantically involved. I didn't read it that way at all, but seeing the thread it seems a lot of people do. If your great friend dies valiantly saving you and you emulate how they look, that's honoring them. If you start changing your appearance to look just like your dead lover, that crosses over into creepy.

Creepy is generally good for a fictional character, but viewing the story that way, I'm not sure I'd want to hang out with Navasi if I ever learned that she's trying to look like her dead lover. That's a bit Single White Female

That perspective DOES take on the creep vibe...but "As you wish"

The important thing to remember is that this is a game. Iconics/Pregens are just easily re-skinnable toons when used in play. Play them how you will, back story is easily ignored or explored depending on a person's preference and imagination.

I've never read anything which stated or even suggested an iconic's sexuality to me even on the Pathfinder side, but I've never cared. It is unimportant to my game...I didn't even read it in this character's.

I've never read anything which stated or even suggested an iconic's sexuality to me even on the Pathfinder side, but I've never cared. It is unimportant to my game...I didn't even read it in this character's.

You obviously need to read more pathfinder comics. No really, they're really great (Though I wish someone would release translations to those runic letters that the arcane casters in the comics use. I'd love to use something like that in roleplay.).

In just the short blurb above, they baked in a huge amount RP potential. She comes off as a fun good-natured scoundrel, a proper Robin-Hood type.

I'm a little sad we didn't get more detail about OGNavasi, because seeing her through neoNavasi's lens makes her more into a mythological figure than a standalone character in her own right. A shining example of righteousness to bring neoNavasi out of her misguided ways. At the end of the day, I guess its neoNavasi's story...

Some questions that are bugging me:
What is the purpose of the poncho?
Why discovery and equality for Weydan? (Very disparate domains. I feel like the main niche served by both these aspects is that of discovering new aliens and bringing them into the Pact as equal members, which hardly seems like something a god champions as their primary goal)
Is it really that hard to locate someone on Absalom station that Navasi's hair and eye color change hides her from two factions out to find her? (Its easy enough to find people in TODAY's digitally enabled world, much less one with greater technology and magic to boot)
Can Navasi get a Speak with Dead to chat with Navasi? (I really want to know which magics survived the Gap) :>

Removed post and replies. We are 100% done using various subsets of the population as bludgeons to question a non-heterosexual background narrative for a character. Previous posts have done a reasonable job covering why representation is important and this is not the appropriate place for further discussion about the if's, should's and but-what-about's.

That background made me very excited to play in the Starfinder world.

pixierose wrote:

Plausible Pseudonym wrote:

I'm not sure why several people have referred to her as "communist." There's nothing communist in her description.

Quote:

Navasi still believes in freedom for all, spreading the wealth, and taking plutocrats down a peg—but she also knows the value of earning credits, and takes pride in the ability to take care of herself and her crew (though she still has a sometimes inconvenient tendency to empty her pockets for those in need).

The freedom part is entirely negating alone, there's nothing here about using violence to assign people to bureaucratically determined jobs and ban the ability to freely cooperate outside that system.

I think you are working under an extremely narrow and biased view of communism. "Violence to assign people to beuareactically determined jobs" isn't inhernet in communism. Not to say that it hasn't occured in "communist nations."(but also occurs on a much more subtler level in capitalism). People see in her the idea of the redistribution of wealth from the privilieged owners of industry to the poor and disenfranchised.

Please don't romantize communism. Millions suffered because of it, including my family.

Millions have suffered because of capitalism, including my family. It's an economic theory, and many believe in it. This isn't about "romanticizing" anything—it's about a character who believes in an economic ideal of equality.

Of course, others will see her as a libertarian. That's...a perspective. I've never regarded libertarianism as particularly egalitarian in practice, but that's my personal opinion on the matter. I'm not going to demand that libertarians not "romanticize" their theories on how things work.

Maybe we could shuffle additional economic/government and inclusion discussions off into separate new Starfinder threads? New threads are real easy to make and would have more breathing room for constructive, in-depth discussion.

So does I noticed a band on Navasi's left arm that looks like some fort of small wearable computer. Because it is so close to the head, maybe some sort of communication device? Thoughts?

From what little I've seen (made up in my head?), Weyden feels like a version/synthesis/outgrowth of Greyhawk's brother gods of travel and the stars, Pharlangn the Wanderer and Celestian the Star-Traveler.

Will she be voiced by Jennifer Hale?

tries to sound out Weydan, and it keeps sounding 'Whedon' to him. Does FreeholdDM know?

...

sounds it out

...Hey...

Millions have suffered because of capitalism, including my family. It's an economic theory, and many believe in it. This isn't about "romanticizing" anything—it's about a character who believes in an economic ideal of equality.

An economic ideal of equality enforced through political control and repression. As soon as you let people decide what to do with their own lives, "from each according to his abilities," isn't possible, it's "what each chooses to do in return for compensation he considers adequate," which, alas, isn't going to provide "to each according to his need." That need, incidentally, always decided by someone else. Take it or leave it.

I guess it's just a weird coincidence that all communist societies have required secret police, political prisons, mass murders of the preceding political class, a certain degree of ongoing murders of dissidents, and sharp limits on emigration to even minimally function.

Navasi seems more moral and smarter than that, good for her.