OPC Log—11 Gozren 4716

Monday, April 11, 2016


Photo courtesy of Nathan Peever.

This past weekend I attended Emerald City Comic Con with over 80,000 other people! While not the largest convention I've participated in, it is in the top three (among Fan Expo Canada with 127,000 and Gen Con at 197,695 attendees). All three are huge conventions with a varied fan base!

This weekend volunteers and Paizo staff came together to run Pathfinder Society events in the Sheraton Grand Ballroom. Except for the early morning hours, we consistently filled our tables and worked hard to get games going quickly. Some of our attendees enjoyed the Adventure Card Game so much they came back the next day to play through the Season of the Runelords Adventure 1. Several other groups went directly from our tables to on-site retailers and bought the Rise of the Runelords Base Set with the intent to start playing back home.

Over the weekend, I managed a couple of breaks and visited other areas of the convention. While I didn't see any of the Pathfinder iconics running around, there was plenty of other great cosplay abound! Pockets of people formed as people took photos of some truly awesome concoctions of fabric, foam, and makeup. Seas of people filled the dealers hall and artist alley. Their talent amazes me and I could stand for hours looking at their work.

But Emerald City Comic Con is just one topic for this week. Let's shift gears to a topic that's been cropping up on the forums: the expense and difficulty of attending conventions. Some Pathfinders desire the rewards of attending conventions, namely boons, but couldn't see a way past the barriers blocking their path. On the organizational side, we receive requests for convention support from events that don't meet the requirements for venue or size. We don't like saying "no" to these events, so we put our heads together, and developed a "Game Day" program to augment our convention support program.

It took a few months to get the details hammered out on who qualifies, what they receive, and support distribution methods. We came up with a flexible program that allows us to tailor our response based on the region and needs of the community. The Game Day program supports three non-convention venues—the venue that is a consistently strong performer that needs recognition for its accomplishments, the venue that is new and could use support to establish itself, and those events that are not quite conventions because they occur in retail establishments or are just under the table requirements. All Game Days still must follow the requirement of being open to the public, registered on paizo.com, and having some form of online advertisement.

We decided the Regional Venture-Coordinators (RVC) know their areas best, so they should choose Game Days under the new program. Each RVC gets 10 such events a quarter. We chose 10 as a baseline number until we can see the reach of the program and identify the regional needs. The RVC works with the event organizer in establishing goals based off of attendance, event offerings, and community needs. Each Game Day should have a basic, stretch, and super stretch goal. Rewards in the form of player and GM boons scale with the goals, with all Game Days getting the basic Tier 3 rewards. If a Game Day meets its stretch goals, then they earn Tier 2 rewards, just as super stretch equals Tier 1.

It is my pleasure to introduce the first of our game days. For the second quarter of 2016, the Southeastern region named Cool Kids Excelsior 2nd Anniversary Bash from April 29-May 1 in Hoover, Alabama, as one of their not-quite-a-con Game Days, as it is held in a retail location. Point of contact is Venture-Captain Mike Seales. The second Southeastern Game Day is TriCon from April 23-24, 2016, in High Point, North Carolina. Once again, it is an event in a retail location. Venture-Lieutenant Landon Hatfield is leading this event. Both of these Game Days are on the event locator here on the website; if you want more details check them out! The Western-Europe/Middle East region named one Game Day: Madrid, Spain, is hosting reoccurring game day. The first was April 2-3 and saw 10 tables of Siege of Serpents and a few other games. The next occurrence is April 30, when they plan to run introduction events in four different locations across Madrid. For more information, contact Venture-Captain Tesifonte Negro Gonzalez. Venture-Officer emails are on the Regional Coordinators page. I look forward to announcing more Game Days as the program grows!

Finally, I would like to apologize to the three individuals who entered the Pathfinder Adventure Card Guild accessory contest. I didn't take my travel schedule into account when I set the submission deadline, and was out of the office when the deadline occurred. But, late is better than never! We had three submissions of three unique accessories. Voting opens today and closes it on Friday, April 15th. Winners will be announced in the blog on Monday, April 18th! Please take a moment and vote for your favorite!


Submissions by Calthaer, Hawkmoon269, and lackoffocus.

Tonya Woldridge
Organized Play Coordinator

More Paizo Blog.
Tags: Adventure Card Guild Community Contests Conventions Pathfinder Adventure Card Game Pathfinder Society
Poll

Vote for Your Favorite Pathfinder Adventure Card Game Accessory!


This poll closed Apr 15, 2016.

Dates and times displayed above are in the US/Pacific time zone.

1 to 50 of 231 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | next > last >>
Grand Lodge 5/5 Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

o.o

Which do I vote for? There's goblins, but there is also Wrath of the Shackled Righteous. (Should have been Runelords in there too.)

This is tough. Although it might be clenched if the first one rotates.


First off all, I am glad to hear about the Game day support. I am a bit concerned that some people will miss out because they are only able to attend middle events. At this point I just want to voice my concern, then see how things play out.

5/5 ⦵⦵⦵

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Quote:
—the venue that is a consistently strong performer that needs recognition for its accomplishments, the venue that is new and could use support to establish itself, and those events that are not quite conventions because they occur in retail establishments or are just under the table requirements. All Game Days still must follow the requirement of open to the public, registered on paizo.com, and has some form of online advertisement.

SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEE

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
eeeeeeeeeeee
hits a pitch only he can hear

5/5

I am curious how, if at all, this might apply to online play? We don't have Game Days as such but there are a number of very prolific and regular organised online VTT games.

People like Prethen, Cronge, Don Bui and many others run very regular and popular games.

Silver Crusade 5/5

Steven Schopmeyer wrote:

o.o

Which do I vote for? There's goblins, but there is also Wrath of the Shackled Righteous. (Should have been Runelords in there too.)

This is tough. Although it might be clenched if the first one rotates.

The first one does in fact rotate. It is a PACG lazy susan. I have played on it, and it works as advertised.

Paizo Employee 5/5 Organized Play Coordinator

Nohwear wrote:
First off all, I am glad to hear about the Game day support. I am a bit concerned that some people will miss out because they are only able to attend middle events. At this point I just want to voice my concern, then see how things play out.

I am not understanding the comment "middle events". Game Days can be anywhere around the globe. If there isn't one in your area, perhaps it is something you could take on with some guidance from the RVC?

Liberty's Edge 4/5 Venture-Captain, Indiana—Northern

Tonya Woldridge wrote:
Nohwear wrote:
First off all, I am glad to hear about the Game day support. I am a bit concerned that some people will miss out because they are only able to attend middle events. At this point I just want to voice my concern, then see how things play out.
I am not understanding the comment "middle events". Game Days can be anywhere around the globe. If there isn't one in your area, perhaps it is something you could take on with some guidance from the RVC?

I think he meant "middle events" as something between a Game Day and a convention. Just my take on it.

4/5

By the implications made here: Cons can't happen in retail spaces? Is this something new? Most cons I go to are in retail spaces...just seems odd to me if this is a change.

Also, are we allowed to know what these Tiers are or is it something amorphous we won't know unless we run an event that gets chosen?

Lots of interesting things, just very curious on things


Tonya Woldridge wrote:
Nohwear wrote:
First off all, I am glad to hear about the Game day support. I am a bit concerned that some people will miss out because they are only able to attend middle events. At this point I just want to voice my concern, then see how things play out.
I am not understanding the comment "middle events". Game Days can be anywhere around the globe. If there isn't one in your area, perhaps it is something you could take on with some guidance from the RVC?

I want to clarify, but I have crashed for the day and can not properly explain myself right now. I hope to do so tomorrow.

Sovereign Court 5/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Card Game, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
andreww wrote:

I am curious how, if at all, this might apply to online play? We don't have Game Days as such but there are a number of very prolific and regular organised online VTT games.

People like Prethen, Cronge, Don Bui and many others run very regular and popular games.

Working on it. I have some proposals as to what a "Game Day" means in the context of online play and we've been working on refining that. When I have more details I'll post them.


Eliandra Giltessan wrote:
Steven Schopmeyer wrote:

o.o

Which do I vote for? There's goblins, but there is also Wrath of the Shackled Righteous. (Should have been Runelords in there too.)

This is tough. Although it might be clenched if the first one rotates.

The first one does in fact rotate. It is a PACG lazy susan. I have played on it, and it works as advertised.

The locations rotate but the blessings deck does not! So you can always be the one to explore your location (instead of relying on others across the table to hand you your cards). :D


@lackoffocus, is that mat for this year's PAX East?

Venture-Lieutenant, Washington—Seattle aka zeroth_hour

What would a Game Day look like in the context of a PACG only/mixed PFS/PFSACG event? AFAIK there still aren't any regular season PFSACG boons, either player boons or GM boons.

Also, the region coordinators link is broken - it's at http://paizo.com/pathfinderSociety/about/regionalCoordinators


1 person marked this as a favorite.
GM Hills wrote:

By the implications made here: Cons can't happen in retail spaces? Is this something new? Most cons I go to are in retail spaces...just seems odd to me if this is a change.

Also, are we allowed to know what these Tiers are or is it something amorphous we won't know unless we run an event that gets chosen?

Lots of interesting things, just very curious on things

This is an issue that a now-not-a-con in my area has come up against. If it's held in a store, it can't be a con now, but if you moved it to a tent in the parking lot, it's a con. Make no sense, and is frankly extremely frustrating.

5/5 ⦵⦵⦵

'Sani wrote:
GM Hills wrote:

By the implications made here: Cons can't happen in retail spaces? Is this something new? Most cons I go to are in retail spaces...just seems odd to me if this is a change.

Also, are we allowed to know what these Tiers are or is it something amorphous we won't know unless we run an event that gets chosen?

Lots of interesting things, just very curious on things

This is an issue that a now-not-a-con in my area has come up against. If it's held in a store, it can't be a con now, but if you moved it to a tent in the parking lot, it's a con. Make no sense, and is frankly extremely frustrating.

I'm a little lost as to whats been changed. I think the blog was saying that you often can't get retail space for an entire continuous weekend, not that that there was a special rule against cons being in a store.

Sczarni 5/5

cosined wrote:
@lackoffocus, is that mat for this year's PAX East?

Yes it is, we will be doing demos on these mats, there might be extras for prizes.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Regional Venture-Coordinator, Great Lakes aka TwilightKnight

Before anyone gets too bent out of shape, conventions can occur at virtually any public venue, retail space included. In fact there are many conventions that take place at a game store or book store and that's okay. If more than fifteen tables of RPG/ACG events are scheduled, you may qualify for convention support.

IF the event is reoccurring or smaller than 15 tables, GameDay rewards may be more applicable to the event.

In either case, if you don't know if your event qualifies for support or for what type, contact your Venture-Officer directly. All convention support requests require the sanctioning of the local VC/RVC to ensure it meets the requirements so might as well talk to them about your event anyway. Plus, they may have resources to help you draw more attendees, find GMs to run tables, or assistance in making HQ run more smoothly. You can find information about your local Venture-Officer team HERE

Boons specifically designed for GameDays and for ACG OP are being developed and should be available soon, if not already.

5/5

Bob Jonquet wrote:

Before anyone gets too bent out of shape, conventions can occur at virtually any public venue, retail space included. In fact there are many conventions that take place at a game store or book store and that's okay. If more than fifteen tables of RPG/ACG events are scheduled, you may qualify for convention support.

Might want to clarify this, as both events Tonya calls in the blog as not qualifying as a con, for con support, due to being held in a retail location have 20 or more tables scheduled(30 and 20 respectively).

This will be coming up quickly in your region, as I know Costello is working on getting a weekend PFS convention organized for mid~late May that will be more than 15 tables...but held at his store.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Regional Venture-Coordinator, Great Lakes aka TwilightKnight

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Okay, so for clarification, retail spaces (game stores) are not eligible for gift certificate support. Whether your event is a convention or a GameDay, if it occurs in a retail space, it still gets GM scenario support and player/GM boons.

Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Instructions on how to build your own turntable for PACG can be found here. The reason the center doesn't rotate is so that you can keep track of whether or not you flipped the blessings deck and whose turn it is, as the instruction book talks about (if I recall).

5/5 ⦵⦵⦵

Makes sense, you don't want PFS decreasing the amount of retail going to the retail store

Paizo Employee 5/5 Organized Play Coordinator

3 people marked this as a favorite.

To give some clarification -

While some retailers don't mind outside products/gift certificates, feedback indicates more mind that do not.

Before, there was only convention support. So everything was put in one bucket. We also had to decline support for events with less than 15 tables occurring over 3 days. Which ruled out many of our smaller venues.

Now we have two types of support - Convention Support and Game Day Support - and we are working to divide up the events into each category. The differences in the support packages are the type of GM boon and that cons get gift certificates. The cons which occur in retail space now apply for Game Day support via their RVC. They need to plan a few more months out, as Game Days are selected every quarter. So if you have an event in July, apply to the RVC now for support.

In a nutshell, we can support the 5 table con in rural Arkansas, or the 10 table con in Russia. A venue that runs once a month can distribute boons, so those people that cannot afford to travel have an opportunity to get items previously denied them.

This is a living program, so feedback is appreciated and changes to the program will occur based on such feedback.

-T

@JonathanNg - thanks for fixing the link to the Regional Coordinators.


I am still confused. So, what support, if any is there for regular game days? As for the middle events remark, let me use an example of how I might be affected. So, what seems to be the main game day in my area does not work for me because it goes too late. The stores that seem to me to need the biggest boost are too far away. Does this mean that I have little chance to benefit from the game day support? This would seem odd to me since I can easily attend three out of the five or six stores. As I said earlier though, this is only a concern and I will see how things actually work out.

4/5

This does seem to alienate areas that have a lot of cons in retail spaces. I know in our area we often have several cons in retail spaces and as the owners of those spaces approve of the cons in advance, often backing them with more boons than the Paizo support (Especially since the change over to gift certificates).

If a store is going to have to fight with several states for Game Day support, as they seem to no longer be eligible for Con support, this may hurt some of them in the future, since they will potentially no longer be able to get support and they might not give us as much space as they once did. This is likely to be relevant with Free RPG Day coming, as some retail spaces plan in house cons that weekend, and if they can't get Con status and they are too late for Game Day status, then they seem to be out of luck...I know it's a new system, but it feels like a major change with little to no warning, since it was mentioned indirectly in a post and not explicitly said.

In other news: Different GM Boons? This is something I think all of us that GM would like to hear more about...

5/5

James McTeague wrote:
andreww wrote:

I am curious how, if at all, this might apply to online play? We don't have Game Days as such but there are a number of very prolific and regular organised online VTT games.

People like Prethen, Cronge, Don Bui and many others run very regular and popular games.

Working on it. I have some proposals as to what a "Game Day" means in the context of online play and we've been working on refining that. When I have more details I'll post them.

Thanks James, that's good to hear.

5/5 ⦵⦵⦵

Hills,

The store con still gets Con support. That is in the form of boons, rather than gift certificates.

4/5

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Hills,

The store con still gets Con support. That is in the form of boons, rather than gift certificates.

I don't see anything saying that. It is implied that stores can no longer be cons, and as such have to apply for Game Day status, of which there are only 10 per region per quarter. If a store can be a con sans gift certificates, that's fine...that's fine, since the gift certificates really only benefit a couple of people the way I have seen them given out lately, but I want to make sure that is the case, because that isn't the way things have been said in this threat. Note: I am not trying to argumentative, I just want us to all be clear on what constitutes a con and what doesn't before people go planning things only to be refused. I went to a 'not a con' earlier this year and was disappointed to see they didn't have support despite 25+ tables, and while I understand why it did not, it seemed to be a change that people were not made aware of, so I would like transparency so things like that do not happen again. The advent of Game Days seems like it would fix that previous situation, but it doesn't...so we still find ourselves in a situation where not-cons can fail to receive support despite massive numbers of scheduled games. As such, I ask these questions because some of my favorite cons could be losing support from Paizo due to these changes. I will say, I don't like the idea that the whim of a single person can prevent an event from getting Game Day status because reasons. As such, this distinction is very important and I believe that our Fearless Leader intends for there to be transparency, thus will clarify.

Silver Crusade 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Pennsylvania—Pittsburgh aka Terminalmancer

I bet the northeast RVC is going to have a heck of a challenge with only 10 Game Days per quarter! I've poked my friendly VL but it sounds like competition will be tough and I'm sure there are a lot of deserving game days.

I hope you're able to get some real data and expand this out to everyone who reasonably qualifies, soon, so we can all participate!

Sovereign Court Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds

Details seem sparse, but it *feels* like this:

* This quarter's Game Days have already all been chosen.

* If you don't already know that your game day was chosen, then you won't be announced anytime soon.

* Regional coordinators are the ones who choose who is a "consistently strong" performer, or who has "near-convention" status.

* If you've never heard from your regional coordinator, then you'd better start getting in contact with them so they might know who you are the next time they need to submit their choices.

No offense, but it looks like this is going to be a system of favoritism, rather than one that looks at numbers.

I'm not a fan.

I would love to be corrected, however, and be made a fan.

5/5 ⦵⦵⦵

Drogon wrote:

Details seem sparse, but it *feels* like this:

* This quarter's Game Days have already all been chosen.

* If you don't already know that your game day was chosen, then you won't be announced anytime soon.

* Regional coordinators are the ones who choose who is a "consistently strong" performer, or who has "near-convention" status.

* If you've never heard from your regional coordinator, then you'd better start getting in contact with them so they might know who you are the next time they need to submit their choices.

No offense, but it looks like this is going to be a system of favoritism, rather than one that looks at numbers.

I'm not a fan.

I would love to be corrected, however, and be made a fan.

One piece of plywood accross some old bunnies and burrows expansion packs and you qualify as a real con and don't need to deal with it.. .just saying :)

Sovereign Court Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds

1 person marked this as a favorite.
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Drogon wrote:

Details seem sparse, but it *feels* like this:

* This quarter's Game Days have already all been chosen.

* If you don't already know that your game day was chosen, then you won't be announced anytime soon.

* Regional coordinators are the ones who choose who is a "consistently strong" performer, or who has "near-convention" status.

* If you've never heard from your regional coordinator, then you'd better start getting in contact with them so they might know who you are the next time they need to submit their choices.

No offense, but it looks like this is going to be a system of favoritism, rather than one that looks at numbers.

I'm not a fan.

I would love to be corrected, however, and be made a fan.

One piece of plywood accross some old bunnies and burrows expansion packs and you qualify as a real con and don't need to deal with it.. .just saying :)

I know (I think...)

I'm not really concerned about me. I know that, if I really want to, I can put together a "convention" level event and push for support. Now, whether I'm able to be as loud as my Colorado Springs neighbors and actually *get* that support is another matter (meaning, so far they have had far more success than I, most likely because I don't push for it as early or as often as they do).

But, frankly, people like you, BNW, are "consistently strong performers" in their region. Do you have support, already? Have you heard from your regional coordinator? If not, are you sure he likes you enough to "recognize" you with something like this? How much are you going to have to do to *get* that recognition that you so rightly deserve?

To carry that further, people like me are demonstrably consistent performers. I have the numbers to back it up, I think. But I rarely coordinate with my local Venture crew; they are busy with their own events and lives, and I'm fine with that. Occasionally my local VC shows up to GM or play at my game days, and he is interested in what I have to say, I suppose. But he also knows he doesn't have to worry about my stores, because I'm going to continue coordinating 7 game days per month between them whether or not he helps.

But I can assure you that, were I to get some Game Day boons, I would be able to squeeze all kinds of good things out of my having them. Seeing as I'm not overly vocal to the venture staff, however, and am never going to accept the title of "venture" anything for myself, how likely is it that I'm going to get some?

Let's just say that, for now, I'm a skeptic.

5/5 ⦵⦵⦵

Drogon wrote:

But, frankly, people like you, BNW, are "consistently strong performers" in their region.

I'm a consistent performer. Not a particularly strong one. 1 to 2 tables every other week. Neither the area's population density or shop really allow for a lot beyond that. I have .1% of the town at a full table.

Quote:
Do you have support, already?

Nope.

Quote:
Have you heard from your regional coordinator?

No, but I do have large ears and have heard the echoes of things rumbling in the distance.

Quote:
If not, are you sure he likes you enough to "recognize" you with something like this? How much are you going to have to do to *get* that recognition that you so rightly deserve?

Wait most likely. I have some things to take care of before being in a position where expanding to another venue half an hour in the other direction would be a possibility.

Quote:
To carry that further, people like me are demonstrably consistent performers. I have the numbers to back it up, I think. But I rarely coordinate with my local Venture crew; they are busy with their own events and lives, and I'm fine with that. Occasionally my local VC shows up to GM or play at my game days, and he is interested in what...

You know I've been one of the most rabid vocal supporters of getting something for game days. This thing just started, let it kick off and we'll see what happens.

Sovereign Court 4/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden aka Ascalaphus

In the Netherlands we used to enjoy a somewhat relaxed version of the 15 table rule, intended to help the scene grow. It has been growing, but not fast enough to easily arrange for 15 tables. I think we manage that once a year.

In addition, there is a quarterly general gaming convention where PFS is represented. We used to get boons for GMing there too (3-6 tables), but with the switch from Mike to Tonya that got put on hold. I was unpleasantly surprised when it happened, but I suppose it was to be expected that Tonya wanted to evaluate things for herself. Still, it's an event that draws players from several cities across the country who normally don't get to play together that often, and we have longer time slots there as well. So it's definitely a special occasion to us.

I'm happy that this issue is receiving attention; I like the idea that "if it looks like a Con, swims like a Con, quacks like a Con, it could receive some goodies like a Con".

I also think it's a good thing that RCs can make some decisions here on what to do, instead of saddling everyone with a "one size fits none" rule.

Sovereign Court Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds

Lau Bannenberg wrote:

I'm happy that this issue is receiving attention; I like the idea that "if it looks like a Con, swims like a Con, quacks like a Con, it could receive some goodies like a Con".

I also think it's a good thing that RCs can make some decisions here on what to do, instead of saddling everyone with a "one size fits none" rule.

Replacing a purely numbers system with an arbitrary system of "who's the favorite coordinator/store" is NOT a good move.

They have the ability to look at how many new players have been created by a venue. They have the ability to look at how many games a venue runs. They have the ability to look at how consistently that venue fills its game slots. They even have the ability to look at the population for where that venue is and compare that population to how many people are consistently playing (as BNW has done with his .1% - I doubt there are many venues that can boast that they have that percentage of the population playing their venue on a regular basis).

There are MUCH better ways to recognize those of us who have helped this system grow and be successful than playing us off against each other in a cutthroat game of Squeaky Wheel Gets the Grease.

Big Norse Wolf wrote:
Drogon wrote:


Have you heard from your regional coordinator?
No, but I do have large ears and have heard the echoes of things rumbling in the distance.

I have big ears, too, and what I'm hearing isn't good.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 Venture-Captain, Indiana—Northern

Drogon wrote:
Lau Bannenberg wrote:

I'm happy that this issue is receiving attention; I like the idea that "if it looks like a Con, swims like a Con, quacks like a Con, it could receive some goodies like a Con".

I also think it's a good thing that RCs can make some decisions here on what to do, instead of saddling everyone with a "one size fits none" rule.

Replacing a purely numbers system with an arbitrary system of "who's the favorite coordinator/store" is NOT a good move.

I'm not certain this is going to be the case. I think you also have to acknowledge that the various Venture-Captains (and in some areas Venture-Lieutenants and Venture-Agents) will have a great impact on this. In my case, I'm not inclined to routinely ask for support for game days here - I just have too many game days every weekend to make such requests. It's not a matter that my stores don't deserve it - I'm only one VC in a very large region. I'll save my Game Day requests for when they will have the greatest impact, and that might mean I go a quarter or two without asking for one.

While this system could be used to reward top performing PFS venues, it can also be used to help draw attention to smaller venues, perhaps helping to grow PFS in a given store.

Is the potential for abuse there? I'll acknowledge that the potential is there, yes. Is it likely to happen? No, it's highly unlikely, I think.

I think we should really give this system a chance and then adjust as needed. I think most everyone agrees that Game Day support is a good thing (I certainly do.) Let's not let the perfect become the enemy of the good.

I just think it's too early to tell.

5/5 ⦵⦵⦵

Drogon wrote:


I have big ears, too, and what I'm hearing isn't good.

Yes, but there's a system there. Systems are rather hard to make but incredibly easy to tweak. There is a gameday bundle and it is X is hard to come up with, but if its given at the RVC's call, or once every 100 games or once every 50 games is a very easy change.

Watch, wait, see how it goes.

Grand Lodge 5/5 Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

I'm curious about the concerns of favoritism. Do you have specific reservations about the coordinators in your area? Or is this based on previous org play experience? Certainly, a system under the purview of RVC judgement calls is susceptible to favoritism as well as human error. I just don't know that railing against the system rather than abuses thereof is the right way to prevent that.

Sovereign Court Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds

Steven Schopmeyer wrote:
I'm curious about the concerns of favoritism. Do you have specific reservations about the coordinators in your area? Or is this based on previous org play experience? Certainly, a system under the purview of RVC judgement calls is susceptible to favoritism as well as human error. I just don't know that railing against the system rather than abuses thereof is the right way to prevent that.

When one person gets something in favor of another it is, by definition, favoritism. Whether or not the one "left out" feels poorly treated by that favoritism depends on whether or not they've received accolades in the past, or know that they'll be getting them sooner than later. Mark's reply speaks to the idea that personality has a lot to do with it, too.

And I'm trying very hard not to "rail against the system." I'm trying to point out poor implementation before it gets started.

Like Mark, I feel that something like this can help foster growth. But I also feel that, after years of asking for something like this, those of us who have spent so much energy making PFS what it is today should get "noticed" instead of told to wait even longer. We have grown this game just as much as those being recognized already. We won't simply take this "reward" and hoard it; we will instead use it to foster even more growth, as we have proven we will do with our past actions.

And, on a personal level, arbitrariness and favoritism are something that gets my back up. That's just a given, when dealing with me.

Grand Lodge 5/5 Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

Drogon wrote:
When one person gets something in favor of another it is, by definition, favoritism. Whether or not the one "left out" feels poorly treated by that favoritism depends on whether or not they've received accolades in the past, or know that they'll be getting them sooner than later.

Then I feel your use of the word is so broad as to be useless to me, and the cause of my confusion.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Overall, a system now, or will soon, exist and that is definitely a good thing. As BNW said, it is easier to alter a system then create one. I will air my concerns, then see how things work out. Right now, my biggest concern is it seems that the support for cons vs game days has gone from 100/0 to 90/10. It is a change, and that is good, but feels like only a little one. It is tempting to use words like token, but that is usually not a good way to start a civilized discussion. Again, these are only concerns based on what has been stated. It is my hope that they prove to be unfounded.

Sovereign Court Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds

Steven Schopmeyer wrote:
Drogon wrote:
When one person gets something in favor of another it is, by definition, favoritism. Whether or not the one "left out" feels poorly treated by that favoritism depends on whether or not they've received accolades in the past, or know that they'll be getting them sooner than later.
Then I feel your use of the word is so broad as to be useless to me, and the cause of my confusion.

I'm also dealing with a bunch of things at the same time, and not giving 100% of my attention to typing. I think I left out something you may need:

When one person gets something in favor of another, merely by virtue of a human choice based on concepts like "worthiness" it is, by definition, favoritism. It's giving preferential treatment to one person, or venue, in favor of another.

Does that help?

Edit: I'm going to repeat something I said above: I want to be a fan. Convince me. Give me a list of everyone who is getting this recognition this quarter, and tell me why. Then tell me how I get this recognition myself so I know what I need to do. Doling them out like they are candy merely leads me to believe that it is certainly a system of favoritism instead of a reward earned for successes past and present.

Grand Lodge 5/5 Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

Drogon wrote:
Does that help?

Not really, no. But my disagreement over the specific definition of favoritism is immaterial to the implementation of the gameday support program. We both want the system to treat each community fairly and evenly, commiserate with the work each puts in.

Sovereign Court Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds

Steven Schopmeyer wrote:
Drogon wrote:
Does that help?
Not really, no. But my disagreement over the specific definition of favoritism is immaterial to the implementation of the gameday support program. We both want the system to treat each community fairly and evenly, commiserate with the work each puts in.

Absolutely agree.

I think our definitions line up nicely. You just like debating. (-;

Grand Lodge 5/5 Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

Nah, not really. I think I just have a different view of it from my military days. It wasn't favoritism when my buddy got pinned before me, because he had more points than I did. It would have been favoritism if he had gotten it because he was the CSM's driver and I wasn't. Equating the two reduces the usefulness of the term.

Silver Crusade 5/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I'm certainly concerned about issues of visibility. I'm in a region that, despite being the largest PFS community in the province (and likely country) currently doesn't have a Venture Captain and, for about 4 years now, has not had a Venture Captain within 100 miles of it.

Correctly or incorrectly, I definitely have the impression that my area gets very, very little attention. I know that I am not the only person in my area with that impression.

Sovereign Court Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds

Steven Schopmeyer wrote:
Nah, not really. I think I just have a different view of it from my military days. It wasn't favoritism when my buddy got pinned before me, because he had more points than I did. It would have been favoritism if he had gotten it because he was the CSM's driver and I wasn't. Equating the two reduces the usefulness of the term.

But this is what I'm saying.

It's not favoritism if BNW is getting a Game Day because he has metrics to back up his status of "biggest and best" ongoing PFS in his area.

It is favoritism if someone else in his region got it due to the fact that they know the RVC because they share a state/town/LGS/occasional phone call.

And if you don't like debating then why do you keep replying to what I say with something "different?" d-:

Grand Lodge 5/5 Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

Drogon wrote:
And if you don't like debating then why do you keep replying to what I say with something "different?" d-:

Mostly because you seem to call "someone has to get this reward and we don't have the metrics yet, so we'll do this one" favoritism. :)

5/5 ⦵⦵⦵

biggest and best is Easy when its "Only"...

Sovereign Court Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds

Steven Schopmeyer wrote:
Drogon wrote:
And if you don't like debating then why do you keep replying to what I say with something "different?" d-:
Mostly because you seem to call "someone has to get this reward and we don't have the metrics yet, so we'll do this one" favoritism. :)

I'll concede the point.

But it's easy to prove that they are NOT using favoritism. Like I said, give us a list of every Game Day in every region for this quarter, and tell us why each one was placed where it ended up. Then tell us how we get on the list for next quarter; and it needs to be a method that isn't "get in touch with your VC and state your case."

Grand Lodge 5/5 Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

1 person marked this as a favorite.

That's the kind of solution I was looking for, actually. I've always seen you as one to offer solutions in response to the problem you are pointing out, which I appreciate quite a bit.

1 to 50 of 231 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Organized Play / Pathfinder Society / Paizo Blog: OPC Log—11 Gozren 4716 All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.