Advanced Class Guide

I am mostly waiting to see what the classes are that have not been announced in the original announcement post. (I've seen mention of "Investigator", which leaves three more.)
Shaman might be interesting, since for my homebrew setting, I was planning to use oracles with psionic spellcasting in the role of shamans. Maybe whatever paizo came up with for the shaman using psionic spellcasting does an even better job at that.
And if the hunter doesn't use spells, I might use it as a replacement for the ranger.

But I also wonder what else the playtest will include, since the final book is targeted at 250 pages. It will probably be a lot more spells and feats, and magic items, and archetypes, and some other things I never care for in a rulebook, but maybe there's something to suprise me.

I'm honestly looking forward to taking a look at the Arcanist... Combination of Wizard and Sorcerer... *droool*

David knott 242 wrote:

Why am I all of a sudden thinking of Eric Cartman impatiently pacing back and forth while waiting for the new Wii to come out?

YES! FREEZE YOURSELF PEOPLE...

5000 years later... Nobody plays PnP anymore, everybody's on virtual reality now.

We demand a full immersion virtual reality in which to play PnP!

I am mostly waiting to see what the classes are that have not been announced in the original announcement post. (I've seen mention of "Investigator", which leaves three more.)

Shaman might be interesting, since for my homebrew setting, I was planning to use oracles with psionic spellcasting in the role of shamans. Maybe whatever paizo came up with for the shaman using psionic spellcasting does an even better job at that.
And if the hunter doesn't use spells, I might use it as a replacement for the ranger.

But I also wonder what else the playtest will include, since the final book is targeted at 250 pages. It will probably be a lot more spells and feats, and magic items, and archetypes, and some other things I never care for in a rulebook, but maybe there's something to suprise me.

From Jason Buhlman

Up to this point, we have announced the [#1] arcanist (a mix of sorcerer and wizard), the [#2] bloodrager (a mix of barbarian and sorcerer), the [#3] hunter (a mix of druid and ranger), the [#4] investigator (a mix of alchemist and rogue), the [#5] shaman (a combination of oracle and witch), the [#6] slayer (a blending of ranger and rogue), the [#7] swashbuckler (a mix of gunslinger and fighter), and the [#8] warpriest (mixing the cleric and fighter). But you knew about those already. Here are the last two.

[#9] Brawler: This class blends the fighter and the monk, creating a warrior whose sole focus is unarmed combat and martial maneuvers, without any of the mysticism of the monk. This class is designed specifically to beat up monsters, with a full base attack bonus progression (like a fighter) and improved unarmed strike damage (like a monk). To top it off, the class is also very skilled at making combat maneuvers.

[#10] Skald: Taking parts of the bard and the barbarian, this class can rage and inspire rage in its allies (we initially called it the “bard-barian” in-house). Instead of inspiring speeches and words of encouragement, the skald incites fury and anger in his allies, allowing them all to go on a murderous rampage.

Arcanist will, for me, either be incredibly useful (spellbook +spontaneous? count me in!) or incredibly useless (no spellbook makes me a sad panda).

Arcanist has been described as "preparing their spells for the day at the beginning of the day (like a wizard) then casting from those chosen spells spontaneously using their available spell slots (like a sorcerer)".

So yeah, I'm guessing a spellbook of some sort is involved.

I really want to see the way the arcanist works, because if it works the way I think it does, I might adapt that to give ranger and paladin spell-casting a little more longevity without much of a power increase. It annoys me how many useful spells they have and almost no capacity to use those spells.

investigating my way to work... interesting results.

May blood rage later

Arcanist has been described as "preparing their spells for the day at the beginning of the day (like a wizard) then casting from those chosen spells spontaneously using their available spell slots (like a sorcerer)".

Is this not the idea behind spell points?

Orthos wrote:

Arcanist has been described as "preparing their spells for the day at the beginning of the day (like a wizard) then casting from those chosen spells spontaneously using their available spell slots (like a sorcerer)".

Is this not the idea behind spell points?

Unless by Spell Points you're referring to DSP's Psionics Power Points, I'm afraid I'm not familiar with it and can't say.

Thani wrote:

Orthos wrote:

Arcanist has been described as "preparing their spells for the day at the beginning of the day (like a wizard) then casting from those chosen spells spontaneously using their available spell slots (like a sorcerer)".

Is this not the idea behind spell points?

Unless by Spell Points you're referring to DSP's Psionics Power Points, I'm afraid I'm not familiar with it and can't say.

Spell Points.

Yora wrote:

I am mostly waiting to see what the classes are that have not been announced in the original announcement post. (I've seen mention of "Investigator", which leaves three more.)

Shaman might be interesting, since for my homebrew setting, I was planning to use oracles with psionic spellcasting in the role of shamans. Maybe whatever paizo came up with for the shaman using psionic spellcasting does an even better job at that.
And if the hunter doesn't use spells, I might use it as a replacement for the ranger.

But I also wonder what else the playtest will include, since the final book is targeted at 250 pages. It will probably be a lot more spells and feats, and magic items, and archetypes, and some other things I never care for in a rulebook, but maybe there's something to suprise me.

From Jason Buhlman

Up to this point, we have announced the [#1] arcanist (a mix of sorcerer and wizard), the [#2] bloodrager (a mix of barbarian and sorcerer), the [#3] hunter (a mix of druid and ranger), the [#4] investigator (a mix of alchemist and rogue), the [#5] shaman (a combination of oracle and witch), the [#6] slayer (a blending of ranger and rogue), the [#7] swashbuckler (a mix of gunslinger and fighter), and the [#8] warpriest (mixing the cleric and fighter). But you knew about those already. Here are the last two.

[#9] Brawler: This class blends the fighter and the monk, creating a warrior whose sole focus is unarmed combat and martial maneuvers, without any of the mysticism of the monk. This class is designed specifically to beat up monsters, with a full base attack bonus progression (like a fighter) and improved unarmed strike damage (like a monk). To top it off, the class is also very skilled at making combat maneuvers.

[#10] Skald: Taking parts of the bard and the barbarian, this class can rage and inspire rage in its allies (we initially called it the “bard-barian” in-house). Instead of inspiring speeches and words of encouragement, the skald incites fury and anger in his...

woohoo, another middle finger to the monks!

also, isnt the savage skald archetype already a thing? i'm unsure as to why it would need it's own class (though i can understand, since it's likely the most METAL thing in the game thus far)

Orthos wrote:

Thani wrote:

Orthos wrote:

Arcanist has been described as "preparing their spells for the day at the beginning of the day (like a wizard) then casting from those chosen spells spontaneously using their available spell slots (like a sorcerer)".

Is this not the idea behind spell points?

Unless by Spell Points you're referring to DSP's Psionics Power Points, I'm afraid I'm not familiar with it and can't say.

Spell Points.

Okay, so sort of like PPs, but not completely.

I imagine that it will still be tied to the Spell Levels and Slots system like the Sorc - so you won't be able to burn up your lower-level spell slots on casting a single higher spell, for example.

Isn't the Swashbuckler and Rogue Archetype already as well?

Isn't the Swashbuckler and Rogue Archetype already as well?

you bring up another good point.

If I remember correctly, the staff said that many of their hybrid classes are based on a successful archetype along with the two classes being combined.

I assume all of these classes are going to apply new mechanics not previously used. Otherwise they would just be archetypes of existing classes that we already have.
Still would have liked to see the Eidelon used in a non-spell casting class. Something like a "Monster Trainer" using Ranger and Summoner mechanics.

If I remember correctly, the staff said that many of their hybrid classes are based on a successful archetype along with the two classes being combined.

Not so much "successful" archetypes as archetypes that needed another look.

zergtitan wrote:

If I remember correctly, the staff said that many of their hybrid classes are based on a successful archetype along with the two classes being combined.

Not so much "successful" archetypes as archetypes that needed another look.

This.

zergtitan wrote:

If I remember correctly, the staff said that many of their hybrid classes are based on a successful archetype along with the two classes being combined.

Not so much "successful" archetypes as archetypes that needed another look.

and are pretty much invalidated with these new classes.

though i'm not trying to say this as negatively as it's coming out--i just think it's kinda odd (not gonna say lazy, just odd) to sorta sweep them under the rug and come out with a whole class that accomplishes the same task (but better), instead of re-tooling the existing material.

Feros wrote:

zergtitan wrote:

If I remember correctly, the staff said that many of their hybrid classes are based on a successful archetype along with the two classes being combined.

Not so much "successful" archetypes as archetypes that needed another look.

and are pretty much invalidated with these new classes.

though i'm not trying to say this as negatively as it's coming out--i just think it's kinda odd (not gonna say lazy, just odd) to sorta sweep them under the rug and come out with a whole class that accomplishes the same task (but better), instead of re-tooling the existing material.

Basically the same thing happened with Eldritch Knight when Magus came out.

Feros wrote:

zergtitan wrote:

If I remember correctly, the staff said that many of their hybrid classes are based on a successful archetype along with the two classes being combined.

Not so much "successful" archetypes as archetypes that needed another look.

and are pretty much invalidated with these new classes.

though i'm not trying to say this as negatively as it's coming out--i just think it's kinda odd (not gonna say lazy, just odd) to sorta sweep them under the rug and come out with a whole class that accomplishes the same task (but better), instead of re-tooling the existing material.

Maybe because thye realized that you cannot simply retool the archetype to properly fill that niche but have to build it differently. Just thinking out loud.

Feros wrote:

zergtitan wrote:

If I remember correctly, the staff said that many of their hybrid classes are based on a successful archetype along with the two classes being combined.

Not so much "successful" archetypes as archetypes that needed another look.

and are pretty much invalidated with these new classes.

though i'm not trying to say this as negatively as it's coming out--i just think it's kinda odd (not gonna say lazy, just odd) to sorta sweep them under the rug and come out with a whole class that accomplishes the same task (but better), instead of re-tooling the existing material.

I can't speak for Paizo, but I imagine it's an issue of not wanting to get rid of stuff that already exists (since some people might like it/be using it) and instead just choosing to add it along the side (for them to jump to if they like it better, and for people who dislike the former to hopefully find something that works for them better than the archetypes which currently don't do the job).

Feros wrote:

zergtitan wrote:

If I remember correctly, the staff said that many of their hybrid classes are based on a successful archetype along with the two classes being combined.

Not so much "successful" archetypes as archetypes that needed another look.

and are pretty much invalidated with these new classes.

though i'm not trying to say this as negatively as it's coming out--i just think it's kinda odd (not gonna say lazy, just odd) to sorta sweep them under the rug and come out with a whole class that accomplishes the same task (but better), instead of re-tooling the existing material.

The problem is the limiting nature of archetypes. They need to be direct 1 for 1 trades of abilities. And not everything can be accomplished with them. They arent for instance, supposed to change base attack bonus (probably one of the main problems with the rogue swashbuckler for instance). I have to assume the point here is that paizo realizes while they were a good try, the archetype format isnt suited to filling these niches unless there is already a class that is a close fit. And if you are going to do that, just make the class.

I am very much pleased to see as much as I think archetypes dont fill niches. They make small tweaks to existing classes. If you want to do something new, even if its a mix of existing things, archetypes dont work. You need more flexibility of design space (like when the gunslinger went from alternate class of the fighter to its own class).

Isn't the Swashbuckler and Rogue Archetype already as well?

There are a few examples like that. They were temporary solutions at best!

So, where can I get this play test?

Anyone hear when the playtest officially begins today? Haven't seen anything yet.

Nowhere yet. Check back in about two or three hours or so. It's still (relatively) early over on the west coast.

The last time they launched a new playtest, didn't the website go down for a bit first?

Its horrible! Its the end of the world! Its the end of pathfinder! Its 2012 and 2000 and 2004 all rolled into one!

... so how much longer till it comes out? :)

Augh! Those jerks! They updated the Paizo Blog with Pathfinder Comic. What teases!

If they release it when I have to go to work, I'm going to be a very angry GM.

I hope they release it within the next few hours. Dying to go over it. Want to change my class for our new campaign we started sunday.

and are pretty much invalidated with these new classes.

though i'm not trying to say this as negatively as it's coming out--i just think it's kinda odd (not gonna say lazy, just odd) to sorta sweep them under the rug and come out with a whole class that accomplishes the same task (but better), instead of re-tooling the existing material.

A noble idea, but how would you do that, if you were Paizo? I don't mean changes to the archetypes: I mean the logistics of revising a hardcover years after it's initial release. You can't change books already printed. Even on a reprint, if the new version is larger, you need to cut something else and you invalidate any page-number reference you might have used. Online-only errata might work, but reduces the value of the actual book.

And if you'd just collect stuff for a Big Book o'Fixes, how is that different from what is happening now?

Augh! Those jerks! They updated the Paizo Blog with Pathfinder Comic. What teases!

If they release it when I have to go to work, I'm going to be a very angry GM.

I know! My heart jumped when the refresh showed something new ... only to fall when it was the comic preview.

But!

(1) It's a nice preview. I enjoyed it.

And!

(2) A blog post went up! We now know that things have started up at Paizo. That brings us that much closer to the post we're all waiting for.

We should have bribed the Paizo peeps with a mountain of doughnuts and a barrel of hot coffee to put the playtest up as soon as they came in this morning.

We should have bribed the Paizo peeps with a mountain of doughnuts and a barrel of hot coffee to put the playtest up as soon as they came in this morning.

Or a Strippogram.

You all make good points and i understand them, but it still doesn't sit right with me. creating a bunch of vestigial things that have since been overshadowed just seems wasteful to me.

i'm half tempted to say just give the now-inferior stuff a mercy-killing to prevent them becoming trap options, but not everything can be the totem warrior, and it would be a massive headache to fix things now (as ross byers pointed out above).

We did that on the Bones kickstarter and doughnuts only sparked a huge debate. :-)

Ambrosia Slaad wrote:

We should have bribed the Paizo peeps with a mountain of doughnuts and a barrel of hot coffee to put the playtest up as soon as they came in this morning.

Or a Strippogram.

{imagines cronut slowly, teasingly stripping off delicate flaky layers}

Ambrosia Slaad wrote:

We should have bribed the Paizo peeps with a mountain of doughnuts and a barrel of hot coffee to put the playtest up as soon as they came in this morning.

Or a Strippogram.

sorry I am all booked up already

Folks ... I've never had the opportunity to be home when a beta has launched before - and I mean this in the most endearing of ways - but you all are hysterical and the dialogue here is quite entertaining.

Am looking forward to seeing how they handle the wizard/sorcerer and the ranger/druid.

And didn't someone send Paizo a bunch of pizzas once a while back?

This thread in a nutshell.

This thread in a nutshell.

+1000

When the new blog post goes up, I'm going to put in a post with a link to this thread and put a linking post to the new thread here, so the conversation can carry over to the point where we actually have something to talk about! ;)

murmur murmur murmur,...WE ARE ALL SANE. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH US. OUR BEHAVIOUR IS NOTHING OUT OF THE ORDENARY, murmur murmur murmur.

So says Abby Normal ;)

Folks ... I've never had the opportunity to be home when a beta has launched before - and I mean this in the most endearing of ways - but you all are hysterical and the dialogue here is quite entertaining.

Am looking forward to seeing how they handle the wizard/sorcerer and the ranger/druid.

And didn't someone send Paizo a bunch of pizzas once a while back?

myself as well--particularly for the arcanist. im interested in how they'll differentiate it from it's parts without it being better (or worse) than either of them, or stepping on their toes. not sure how i feel about having three arcane casters with the same spell lists though.

too many cooks and all that.

This thread in a nutshell.

I've got to go be productive all night at Work! This was my time to be unproductive with Paizo :P

is the playtest just going to appear on the downloads page? Or are we going to have to search for it?

This thread in a nutshell.

..I went for a walk and got six pounds of noodles. I was productive!

Not really. But hey, MAC AND CHEESE, WOO!

is the playtest just going to appear on the downloads page? Or are we going to have to search for it?

Thanks so much for saying that. I have no idea myself but now I'm refreshing this page AND my downloads page every few minutes until I see it or have to leave for work.

murmur murmur murmur,...WE ARE ALL SANE. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH US. OUR BEHAVIOUR IS NOTHING OUT OF THE ORDENARY, murmur murmur murmur.

So says Abby Normal ;)

MAINTAIN DAILY PROTOCOLS, CITIZENS. NOTHING IS OUT OF THE ORDINARY. ALL SCHEDULED OPERATIONS PERFORMING AT EXPECTED RATIOS. GLORY TO THE MANY.