Pathfinder Battles Preview: Introducing Legends of Golarion

When was Shattered Star released?

January 23, 2013

Absolutely beautiful miniatures. I'm looking forward to seeing them in person!

While my budget has a limit, I'm not worried about market oversaturation, because not all the sets are designed with me in mind. I'm a player, not a GM, in Skull and Shackles, so I likely won't be spending a lot of money on those minis. I love the goblins, so I've already dropped some coin on that builder series. I have a ton of DDM undead minis, so I won't be spending any money on that set

So, personally, I'm really happy that most sets have a theme and/or specific audience, even if it means some don't appeal to me. I might only GM 1 out of every 3 AP's, but for the ones I do, I'll be glad the minis are there for me to throw gobs of money at :-).

If this is how it's going to be, I'll have to be more picky-choosey about the cases I buy. I'm sorta "meh" on Skull & Shackles, so I might cancel my preorder for that set and go with Legends, since it hints at covering my bases better.

Decisions, decisions...

I suspect that's the point. I already skipped Shattered Star and just picked some essentials up. Yes, price-per-mini was higher but overall expense was (much) lower.

I'm certainly doing the same with Skull & Shackles for two reasons: I don't care for pirate-themed anything and I don't therefore need so much aquatic minis.

Were it not for this case I would be buying very few minis this year. I grabbed the goblins because... goblins, but I won't be getting the undead builder set.

So WizKids has (at least) me being discriminate. If they continue with just two or three major releases a year the odds of catching my wallet's eye aren't high. Bringing the release rate up actually increases the appeal to more people. While the must-buy-one-of-everything crowd may be squeezed out, they may end up making more profit by sucking folks like me into a case here or there.

Incidentally, this case will likely resume my interest.

If Wizkids starts pumping out these figures like they do with Heroclix I'm out! The quality on heroclix is terrible lately. I can not afford to collect large numbers of only so-so painted figures. Three sets a year plus the builder series is enough, please don't let Wizkids ruin the Pathfinder line too.

A couple of points that might be helpful to remember.

1) Shattered Star was originally planned to be a late 2012 release and slipped to 2013.

2) Skull & Shackles was originally planned to come out in June or July, but slipped to August.

3) Paint quality on Pathfinder Battles is going UP, not the other way around. I approve every paint master in the line, and will not let it slip.

4) The idea of monthly Pathfinder Battles set releases is a fantasy. We literally cannot go any faster than we are currently going.

5) The Builder Series and Encounter Packs are not "auto-purchases" as part of the case subscription, and case subscribers enjoy a healthy discount on them to make them easier to afford.

6) None of the Encounter Packs or Builder Series sets are out of print, and the Builder Series sets are designed specifically to be "evergreen". If money is tight you shouldn't worry about missing one of these if you don't buy them on day 1.

7) Both Paizo and WizKids very closely monitors feedback posted here and elsewhere, so your concerns are definitely being taken into consideration.

I agree that each set so far released has made improvements on its predecessor. If future sets keep up this trend then sign me up!

A couple of questions, Erik.

1) Have any of the release delays of the sets been due to minis not being at your quality level?

I would actually be very glad if that was the case. Where I believe you in saying you will not let the quality slip, it would be reassuring to see that there have already been times you have said no on miniatures and even to the point of delaying a set for that reason if needed.

2) I am assuming (hoping) the problem Shattered Star was experiencing with higher than accepted broken minis (out of the box) has been resolved?

I also wanted to say I've been very happy with the miniatures so far and look forward to future sets.

My issue now is just finding the space for all of them!

A couple of questions, Erik.

1) Have any of the release delays of the sets been due to minis not being at your quality level?

Probably. I can't remember everything that's slipped and for what reason (no doubt some of it has been production-related and had nothing to do with us), but I'm positive that we've had to redo figures because of Paizo's quality standards, and that certainly doesn't make sets go any faster...

2) I am assuming (hoping) the problem Shattered Star was experiencing with higher than accepted broken minis (out of the box) has been resolved?

I certainly haven't been hearing many complaints about We Be Goblins, and the production samples I have of Skull & Shackles here on my desk certainly appear to be very sturdy.

I also wanted to say I've been very happy with the miniatures so far and look forward to future sets.

Thanks! It is a ton of fun working on these sets and helping to put them together. It's nice to know that all that hard work is appreciated.

From the awesome first preview of Legends of Golarion, I am still all in for getting a case. However, if the release happens to slip to November, then that would just about make my day. My wife could then put it under the Christmas Tree.

If the next set just happens to slip to January or better yet February, then that would at least give us two more months to save up.

In all seriousness though, I think the sweet spot is about three sets a year. That seemed to be WotC's sweet spot during their high watermark with the DDM line (2006 - War Drums, War of the Dragon Queen, Bloodwar). And thanks for the reminder about the "Evergreen" status of the Builder Series and Encounter Packs. That should make decisions on when to buy easier for some of us.

If it does turn out that Legends of Golarion is the last set for 2013, that would mean we would have that set, Shattered Star and Skull & Shackles all in the same year. That would definitely rival 2006. :)

I certainly haven't been hearing many complaints about We Be Goblins, and the production samples I have of Skull & Shackles here on my desk certainly appear to be very sturdy.

In my experience We be Goblins minis are much more durable than the minis in H&M and even RotRL. Before the Paizcon swag I had no Shattered Star minis, but I received a box of those, and happily they seem similar to We be Goblins durability.

In other words, the durability issue seems to be sorted.

Although I fall more into the plasti-crack addict category (which means they can never make enough, fast enough for me) I do find the current rate pretty decent.

The only concern I had was the future paint qualities, but this has been addressed already by Erik. Typically as time goes on, the production and materials costs steadily increase and usually there has to be a compromise somewhere to try to keep the minis at the same price point. This however, is what hurt the WotC minis towards the end, in my opinion. The minis began to look like a 3 year old painted them and rarely would they have more than 3 colors. Their transparent minis were never painted. The use of washes and dry-bushing completely ceased on the minis (and this is such a cheap and quick way to greatly improve the appearance of a mini). I would rather pay more for a quality mini, than see the quality drop to where I feel unhappy and disappointed when I open my mini boxes.

Thankfully Paizo/WotC has found a great balance of producing minis with an amazing amount of paint steps, at a very affordable price. I feel like I owe them my money for the generous gift they are offering us :)

Thankfully Paizo/WotC has found a great balance of producing minis with an amazing amount of paint steps, at a very affordable price. I feel like I owe them my money for the generous gift they are offering us :)

I assume you ment Wizkids here. Yes?

Gorgeous, gorgeous minis... I might be skipping Skull & Shackles, but this set I want to buy! :)

By the way, I realize I haven't said this yet, but these minis look incredible. I may have got caught up in the "oh noes, too many sets at once!" Mindset, which kept me from actually complimenting the stuff in the preview.
Also, the last three pics are still redirecting to the goblins, in case that comment was missed from before.

Kor - Orc Scrollkeeper wrote:

Thankfully Paizo/WotC has found a great balance of producing minis with an amazing amount of paint steps, at a very affordable price. I feel like I owe them my money for the generous gift they are offering us :)

I assume you ment Wizkids here. Yes?

Yes, most certainly... the other "W" company :)

Your previews continue to win me over. All the minis previewed this week look great and all will be quite useful. Great start to this new set! Thanks.

A couple of points that might be helpful to remember.

1) Shattered Star was originally planned to be a late 2012 release and slipped to 2013.

2) Skull & Shackles was originally planned to come out in June or July, but slipped to August.

Thought that was the case, vaguely remember the dates originally. Lept in a bit early with the assumptions. And lets be honest people don't need to buy every set (even subs can be altered), and the singles are always available.

3) Paint quality on Pathfinder Battles is going UP, not the other way around. I approve every paint master in the line, and will not let it slip.

Looking at the next two sets that is pretty evident, and is largely what presents the quandry for buying. Even the builder sets have a hugh standard of painting and that says something for the line. I, personally, wasn't stating this woudl happen in this line - just that I had observed it with heroclix and DDM (especially the later one). To my mind paizo puts out a fairly high standard of product, which is what makes subscribing a simple choice.

4) The idea of monthly Pathfinder Battles set releases is a fantasy. We literally cannot go any faster than we are currently going.

5) The Builder Series and Encounter Packs are not "auto-purchases" as part of the case subscription, and case subscribers enjoy a healthy discount on them to make them easier to afford

6) None of the Encounter Packs or Builder Series sets are out of print, and the Builder Series sets are designed specifically to be "evergreen". If money is tight you shouldn't worry about missing one of these if you don't buy them on day 1.

The builder/evolution series is one of THE BEST ideas in the mini line. As a long time collector I have a tonne of minis but this line fills a need at a really affordable price for some fantastic quality minis. I find myself replacing my older minis with the new ones, passing the oldies off to others in my game group. I know my group would be more than happy to buy these sets as often as they come out, hell 2 of them are hanging out for the undead and evolution sets. The benefit of more full sets is more sculpts for this line so I say yay to this. On that note are we getting another evolution set soon?

Over all I am really impressed with the line and the job from both companies. I've calmed down from my original state of shock and look at the next few sets this year (Shackles, legends and ????) as an oportunity to expand my range. Financially I can just go halvsies with a mate like I used to do with DDM. You do a great job Erik and while I know you don't need the praise to function I think you deserve some for the efforts you go to to keep us informed and happy.

As a quick aside Erik are those pyros more in line with the darker paint scheme of the we be goblins set, or the lighter tones of the others sets? They appear to be the darker line.

Well ... I had to cancel my Battles sub for financial reasons ... but WOW! Legends of Golarion ... I hope I can resubscribe in time for that. (Not sure how ... but I hope I can).

And Erik, Lisa ... thanks for taking the time to allay and address our fears and concerns ... we know you guys care and it shows. :)

The minis previewed for Legends ... LOVED each and every one. (And I know it's been said elsewhere ... but YES! a Gargantuan Green Dragon!!!! :)

Dean

Four full sets this year. That's very unexpected. And painful. I thought I had plenty of disposable income in my budget to cover all my Pathfinder wants. Guess not. I'm going to have to cut some books and look more to the singles market rather than cases.

Since they seem to be going back and doing mini's from other Adventure Path's I would like to see Allevran Azrinae/Female Drow Cleric from Second Darkness. Plus Ecarrdian Drovenge and Chammady Drovenge from the Council of Thieves Adventure Path. Plus any others from both of those would be a Plus!

Sorry Erik and Lisa that I was negative, don't get me wrong, I'm excited for what you have in store for us, but I know the history of Wizkids with over saturation of the market place and from what they did to heroclix. I'm glad your hear to alleviate my fears, I just thought you needed to hear how I felt about it because I collected everything heroclix and now I don't buy them for this reason alone. I'm a plastic crack addict and a completest, so you see my concerns. Thank you for such an awesome lineup of figs.

A couple of points that might be helpful to remember.

1) Shattered Star was originally planned to be a late 2012 release and slipped to 2013.

2) Skull & Shackles was originally planned to come out in June or July, but slipped to August.

Ok, so 3 sets planned for this year, that's fine. And I understand that there are slips in the schedule, but... let's not make all 3 release in a 6 month window going forward please :)

Arthur

Ho ho ho! Green Dragon!

Looks very exciting so far. I'm passing on skull and shackles, so this will be a welcome addition to my collection. Hopefully you'll include the Kobold king and his minions, as well as other creatures from the earliest pathfinder and game mastery modules...

7) Both Paizo and WizKids very closely monitors feedback posted here and elsewhere, so your concerns are definitely being taken into consideration.

Customer mood clearly matters. Nonetheless, I hope they'll be paying attention primarily to the sales (ie what people, as a group do, rather than what individuals do).

Up until recently the release rate has been frustratingly slow for me.

I'm hoping for the Count, Radovan and Arni- squirrel! Er Arnisant in the set.

I am really hoping for at least four releases a year. When Paizo went back and did Runelords I thought at two sets a year (with two new APs a year) they are never going to catch up on the old APs and there are so many of those I want. Now, I feel they no only can keep up on current APs but continue to fill in the older ones.

My Requests in order: Serpent Skull, Crimson Throne, Carrion Crown, Legacy of Fire, Second Darkness, Reign of Winter, Jade Regent

Even that will take three years or more.

Oh, I want the new AP beginning at the first of the year as soon as possible (even before my list above).

When it comes to minis I am not a patient man.

Up until recently the release rate has been frustratingly slow for me.

While I understand and agree just one set in the first six months was "slow". I really would like to see more figures but spaced out better.

If they want to do four sets, then one per quarter; march, june, september, december for example. However, three sets a year plus builder sets/box sets makes more sense to me.

Three sets and extras ( builder/ box ect..) is great. Four sets would be a strain. However, and it's a small complaint, December is a really hard month to come up with minis money and the family just won't buy into the whole minis for Christmas thing. Jan, April, July, October would be so much easier. My two cents. My ideal is three sets two builder sets and 2-3 evolutions style box sets per year.

Well since the 13/14 catalogue states that the december set is a Wrath of the Righteous set I am 100% behind the release schedule. I now just hope it hits its december mark - more demon minis, mythic minis and a Shemhazian demon as the incentive (well we can hope). Plus I intend the run WotR as my next path anyway.

More of the Denizens of Golorian has me thrilled. Bring on the Kolbold, Orcs and other staples of adventuring.

And, a Gargantuan Green to boot! Life is good.

it certainly is ^

I'm a bit late to the party, but I still want to join the chorus of “please tone down the release speed, it's too much right now”.

SHHH! You've been outvoted! Plus Mr. Mona said these are early release dates, so there is a good chance for pushback, as in previous sets. If not, well who needs every mini? Just pick and choose what you like. (and the more there are, the more chance of seeing a mini that you've desperately needed/wanted)

Outvoted? From what i can tell most of the responses here agree that the release speed is too much ... Not that I am complaining, i just mainly cant wait for Legends to come out, but seems to me if there was a vote then it would prolly tip the scales over to the people that dont like the speeding up of releases.

And to be honest, the message from Paizo has been clear and consistant. There are three sets going to come out before the end of the year. Paizo does not set the schedule, Wizkids does. This message has been very clear. What is not so clear is, what will the schedule be like in 2014?

meh, I guess I'd figured Eric's comments had calmed everyone down.

meh, I guess I'd figured Eric's comments had calmed everyone down.

Erik's comments explained things and offered some reasons for it. But his comments did not change our right to express our opinions and give feedback to Paizo/Wizkids.

But I admit I am glad this pace works for you and for some others. At least some will be able to support the line and keep the message of interest going.

Is there a place to look up the stats for adventure paths that I don't have? I would like to know all the stats on Queen Ileosa.

I have now added images of 5 new minis shown in the recent Paizo GenCon Blog post. If anyone knows the names for these minis, could you please let me know.

Legends of Golarion Gallery

If anyone has any better pictures of these minis, please send them my way.

First pic on your site is

Ruthazek

He is the current Gorilla King of Usaro in the Mwangi Expanse.

I have now added images of 5 new minis shown in the recent Paizo GenCon Blog post. If anyone knows the names for these minis, could you please let me know.

Legends of Golarion Gallery

If anyone has any better pictures of these minis, please send them my way.

Actually, 6 new minis, giant dragon/demon with flaming whip.... kinda hard to miss.

Actually, 6 new minis, giant dragon/demon with flaming whip.... kinda hard to miss.

I noticed it, but it seemed so unimpressive that I didn't think it warranted a spot in the gallery :)

Oddly enough, it was the first picture I cropped, but then forgot about it. I see they are pushing the limit of what they can fit on a large base. It looks like this guy should really be huge.

Oddly enough, it was the first picture I cropped, but then forgot about it. I see they are pushing the limit of what they can fit on a large base. It looks like this guy should really be huge.

Well, as big as the treachery demon was, it wouldn't be right to make the "Balor(?)" any smaller. Heck, with the wings, it looks almost as big as the green dragon itself... yeesh. But, I agree, Kor... so 'ooge.

I have now added images of 5 new minis shown in the recent Paizo GenCon Blog post. If anyone knows the names for these minis, could you please let me know.

Legends of Golarion Gallery

If anyone has any better pictures of these minis, please send them my way.

I am such an addict and my drug of choice is PPM.

Thanks for the fix Kor. :-)

Does the picture of the Balor in the gallery look like he's smiling to anyone else? I just see a super-happy demon.

Is that a large green dragon I see lurking behind the demon?

Is that a large green dragon I see lurking behind the demon?

I think it might be the Sandpoint Devil that was previewed last week.

Crit to Hit got some good shots of the minis in the paizo booth here. You can get a good look at the black demon thing in one picture.

Kor: you have an unknown mini that looks like a serpentfolk, and a unknown serpentfolk that are the same mini