Ultimate Equipment: What's Missing?

Caedwyr wrote:

Sample cateogories to help explain what I meant in the post above

Equipment

• Musical Instruments & Noise-Makers
  

Those were a focus of my turnover. I didn't do as much on this project as Jason Nelson and Russ Taylor, but I contributed some musical items. Subject to the Editor's knife of course.

Is that vorpal Editor's knife?

It'd be great if the book had every mundane item from the PHB (i.e., a full weapons table and armor table). That would avoid having to reference multiple books for equipment.

+1

Also, add hardness and hp to weapon/armor in the table. Ideally, all items could have hardness and hp included.

I'm left wondering if this includes Treasure Generation and Placement or not.

I would LOVE to radically revise how the current random tables work. Right now, "minor" wondrous items run from 50 gp to 8,000 gp, "medium" run from 8,000 gp to 27,500 gp, and "major" run from 28,000 gp to 200,000 gp, which is an almost completely useless categorization of items if you're trying to roll up an appropriate treasure hoard for an encounter of a specific level.

I haven't scoured the existing comments to see if this was brought up or not, but I have one request that jumps out at me above all others:

Please, please, PLEASE give us a final, correctly-worded reprinting of all of the worn-on-your-hand weapons!

We've got weapon descriptions (for gauntlet, spiked gauntlet, cestus, etc) in the CRB and elsewhere saying they modify your unarmed strikes, then we've got commentary from SKR saying "no, they're just plain old light melee weapons", then we've got "but look, Book X was printed after SKR's comments but with unchanged language, so it trumps what he said!".

I've dug up everything I can find on glove-style weapons and still don't know how much damage a Dragon Style monk deals with a cestus (for example).

Or we could just put this in a FAQ post. I don't care. I'm just tired of shying away from those weapons because I don't know how they'll be treated. An equipment book seems like the perfect time to get them all straightened out at once.

Tattoos. You introduced Tattoos as a class of items that you can create with a pretty interesting item slot and use mechanic, but they're basically Permanent Lesser Metamagic rods or temporary metamagic scrolls. They don't have any distinct identity This is especially egregious when you see what sort of vibrant life you poured into the (few but interesting) Thassilonian Runes. Even rods do more than just Metamagic. Please give Tattoos their own distinct identity in the same way.

I'd really, really like to see a master craft system for weapons and armor like the one used in The Black Company RPG. It's always seemed wierd to me that skilli n crafting has a cut-off like it does - It should scale with level like everything else.

The weapon/armor crystal mechanics in Magic Item Compendium was a fresh breath. I recognize you can't/shouldn't just clone the idea, but the core concept is a good one:

Reasonably low-power and price modifications to the two "most important" categories of items in the game.

So much adds a +1 worth of cost to items that they become prohibitive very quickly, without really being worth the cost. A flat-price bump is a cool solution for abilities that aren't terribly flashy.

In fact, I would highly recommend reading the design notes that are a part of the Magic Item Compendium. I thought they were really interesting and well-thought-out and they clearly and logically set out what they were trying to do (e.g. avoiding items that are 90% useless and 10% terrific like the Helm of Underwater Action, adding more items with multiple uses in favour of multiple items with a single use, etc.).

Hopefully you won't feel it's "copycatting" if you absorb some of the good lessons from another company's book.

Food. A lot more food. Trade values, how to cook it, what benefits there could maybe be from preparing a meal instead of just chomping away.

Also in this request is alcohols. Everyone loves to have their character drink dwarven ale, elven wine, or gnomish mead, but I can never find the price. And what if such beverages gave some sort of benefit?

Unrelated:
Expand the appraise skill when dealing with items?

Oh, here's an idea:

What about a thrown-splash-weapon style potion/oil variant? For instance, a 50gp "cocktail of faerie fire" could be thrown at a grid intersection where it would duplicate the effect of faerie fire.

We've got potions for spells that target a creature, and oils for spells that target a creature/object. Let's add a category for AoE's! :D

Magical versions of umbrellas, Yo-yos, earings, clocks/watches, orgin grinder, ribbons, glass eye, eyepatch, pegleg, and jackets

Phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range.

+1 to Hogarth and Evil Lincolns comments... a new style of random treasure generation... I use programs for it that I have to spend hours and hours and hours inputing items in books one by one and reassigning % values... it isto especially tough (for rolling tabletop ) when there is way more than 100 items in a decent sized table (making you roll a third d10 for the hundred)

I love the MIC, and the preface is fantastic. Taking lessons from it is nothing but positive.

Evil Lincoln wrote:

I'm left wondering if this includes Treasure Generation and Placement or not.

I would LOVE to radically revise how the current random tables work. Right now, "minor" wondrous items run from 50 gp to 8,000 gp, "medium" run from 8,000 gp to 27,500 gp, and "major" run from 28,000 gp to 200,000 gp, which is an almost completely useless categorization of items if you're trying to roll up an appropriate treasure hoard for an encounter of a specific level.

It may be difficult to change the definition of minor, medium, and major, but hell, you're a world-class tabletop designer, I believe you have a +3 sacred-cow-bane greataxe somewhere in your office (or the feats to craft one).

I think the only reason you don't hear more complaints about this is because the system has been so bad for so long that nobody even tries anymore, they just pick treasure and place it. If that's the case, 1/8th of the CRB could disappear tomorrow and no one would know! If that's truly how people are playing, there's room and reason to replace the old system with something that helps us play that way. I'm tired of pretending that it works at all. The CRB is heavy.

(Forgive my presumptuousness, but) Now would be a very good time to run a focus group on treasure generation to expose the major usability flaws, like you did with the Beginner Box. If you need any assistance or advice with that kind of test (like doing it impartially in-house on a shoestring budget) please don't hesitate to contact me, it's my kinda thing!

I sincerely hope to see hoard templates for level appropriate treasure. Being able to look up level 7, see that there's such-and-such weapon on the list and know that I can plop that in my game or sub out a weapon of similar value would be infinitely better than the current system. In that I would use it. At all.

Thanks again so much for engaging with the community on this.

I would like for there to be items or item enchantments that keep them from melding into your person when wild shaping or using transmutation spells. Like a bag for potions or some such thing.

Phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range.

Hey, just what you see, pal!

Magic items for animal companions, Eidolons and familiars.

Alchemical catalysts to add metamagic effects to elixirs and bombs.

Magic weapon properties that add "riders" to, or modify sneak attack, cavaliers challenges, paladin smites etc.

Also, with the proliferation of animal companions/steeds/familiars, there really needs to be more magic items geared toward such creatures.

I second this. Maybe even something for an Eidolon?

-Kcinlive

It is so, so cool that you're asking for this input. This is one of the big reasons why Paizo rocks.

I'd love to see an index of wondrous items based on what body slot they take up. I really dislike having to remember if a periapt, an amulet, a necklace, and a locket all go on the same slot or not, or whether there's some better footwear out there that's listed as "shoes" rather than "boots". And can I wear a robe and a cape at the same time, or is it a cloak and a cape?

I know there's a little list of body slots, but I'd really like a list of all the available equipment for each slot.

Items for animal companions and familiars, both magical and mundane.

Also, at least a short explanation of what normal magic items can be put on animal companions - for instance, we've often home ruled that a ring can be semi-permanently put onto an animal companion's ear via heal skill and cure light wounds, and the handle animal skill, to make an earring.

Can an amulet be altered to be put onto a dog? Can a belt be used as a large collar for a large companion? Can a ring fit a small snake? Can a cloak be put on an animal? Animals in real life can wear clothes, so why not animal companions?

At some point, the PCs have enough rings of protection, are all wearing belts, etc.

Any enchantments to barding specific to animals. An explanation maybe of what can wear barding and what can't.

[edit: ninja'd, but this is a biggie for me and the groups I've been in]

[edit: Do the items an Eidolon is carrying vanish with the Eidolan when it isn't summoned?]

Melee could really use a belt of battle clone, only this time without the belt being a cheap metamagic rod of quickening ...

Maybe leave the % tables for distribution out of the printed product? It occurs to me that eventually there will be even more magic items than contained in the UE. Or they'll have to think of a new round 1 for superstar, at the very least.
a % table that is a web page or free PDF, so that it can be updated, chopped up and RE-processed at will might be a better long term solution.
I do like the idea of hoard templates for treasure distribution.

Poisons! Poisons! Poisons! Poisons!

Also, poisons.

Perhaps wondrous yet misunderstood relics from Numeria, or other gear from across the stars?

trade items would be nice for some randomness in treasure instead of getting gold.

alchemical dyes, paints, and drinks if there is going to be a listing of food items

mundane ways to customize weapons/armor/equipment

I do think this idea may have a place in this book, but is a new set of rules so... but Ideas for ways to enhance weapons for low magic games that don't cause them to become magic

Gorbacz wrote:

Phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range.

Hey, just what you see, pal!

Ah the first Terminator movie.

Tattoos. You introduced Tattoos as a class of items that you can create with a pretty interesting item slot and use mechanic, but they're basically Permanent Lesser Metamagic rods or temporary metamagic scrolls. They don't have any distinct identity This is especially egregious when you see what sort of vibrant life you poured into the (few but interesting) Thassilonian Runes. Even rods do more than just Metamagic. Please give Tattoos their own distinct identity in the same way.

Take a look at Inkantations: A Sourcebook of Tattoo Magic & Body Art from 4 Winds Fantasy Gaming if you want more varied tattoos and tattoo magic in your Pathfinder game.

Siege Weaponry like catapults, magonels, trebuchets, battering rams, siege towers and other siege vehicles would be very helpful for those DM's of us who enjoy "epic" sieges and games that encompass that.

Another possibility could by exotic weapons not yet covered, like:

Bladed Tonfa
Khanjar
Mancatcher Polearm
Three Section Staff

Also, poisons haven't gotten much love yet. How about a comprehensive list of all the colors of lotus and other dread elixirs and vile venoms?

Additional gambling games (which could later be made into a game that Paizo could market ;))
Hunting gear (additional animal scents, traps, etc.)

I'd like to see augment crystals (something that the D&D Magic Item Compendium had).

I'd also like to see an Impact magic weapon ability (functions like a keen magic weapon ability except only for blunt damage inflicting weapons).

I'd also like to see the return of the potion belt (and masterwork potion belt as well).

Finally, here's a magic item I'd like to see:

Cloak of Feathers
Aura moderate transmutation
CL 11th
Slot shoulders
Price 28,800
Weight 1 lb
Description
This cloak is covered in hundreds of fluffy bird feathers (usually turkey or ostrich). It bestows upon the wielder a continuous feather fall spell as well as a continuous feather step spell. By holding the edges of the garment, the wearer is able to fly as per the spell (including a +7 bonus on Fly skill checks). If she desires, the wearer can actually polymorph herself into an giant eagle fly accordingly (as beast shape IV). All possessions worn or carried are part of the transformation. Either of the flying powers is usable for up to 11 minutes at a time, but after a flight of any duration the cloak cannot bestow any flying power for a like period of time.

Lajatang
A scope on a crossbow to treat targets as if within 30ft
Spear launcher - a dwarven blood item
A Chalice or thurible providing some type of continuous area of effect

I'd love to see an index of wondrous items based on what body slot they take up.

Then you're really, really gonna like how this book is organized...

Also, at least a short explanation of what normal magic items can be put on animal companions - for instance, we've often home ruled that a ring can be semi-permanently put onto an animal companion's ear via heal skill and cure light wounds, and the handle animal skill, to make an earring.

An animal companion or familiar can use any magic item for which it has the appropriate body slots. A monkey could wear a ring because it has fingers, but a dog could not (a human can't wear a ring as an earring, so a dog can't, either). Most animals can wear a shirt, or boots, or even a cloak or belt, but some may interfere with locomotion (an eagle wearing an appropriately-sized robe couldn't fly because even if it got its wings through the arm-holes, the robe's gonna mess with flapping).

This book is about items, therefore we need rule to make those items. A total reworking of Crafting, for magical and mundane items, that is logical and practical.

I would like to see rules for Magic Items, specifically weapons and armor, that are pieces fitted together that produce synergistic effects beyond the +x bonus. But that sounds like it'll be in a different book if it ever sees the light of day.

I also would like to see legacy/signature items done correctly. Weapons of Legacy had rules that got discarded faster than the weapon Vs. Armor type tables of AD&D. I think sacrificing some GP & XP might be the way to go. But again, that's probably out of the purview of UE.

Ioun Stones! I love all the new Ioun stones and want even more. I would love to see more items that can be "Powered Up" by Ioun stones. I don't like the way that the wayfinders loose powers as you add Ioun stones. And I don't understand that from a design P.O.V.

I'd like to see some more class specific items. I am always on the look out for something that will help boost some class ability I have. Also items that also help Archetypes. A collection of cheap items for low level characters.

Equipment appears to be one of the most FAQ'd categories of rules, particularly weapons. I know space is probably tight, but please, please, please spell out anything that might concievably be ambiguious or non-obvious. Say which side of the double weapon is which, even if you think it's obvious. Unless you want the Kusarigama to be a weapon that can't be used to attack adjacent enemies, spell out what on earth is the deal with each side of the weapon. Spell out exactly what you can and cannot do with a hand wearing a fist-weapon style weapon. Things like that. Failure to specify things confuses Paizo's own writers - see the Net and Trident feat for an example. I know that the goal of the product may not be to clarify existing rules, but you can prevent future FAQ morasses by simply spelling out exactly what a weapon does. Don't be afraid to use technical language.

You should probably just take a page out of 4e's book and describe the ends of double weapons on separate lines, rather than jumbling everything into a single line and leaving players to wonder if all of the properties apply to both ends or what. Don't pull another Kyoketsu Shoge. If a weapon has multiple attack modes, spell those all out. Don't rely on inexact fluff text to try to communicate what the weapon does, do a formal write-up. It may be easy enough to figure out more or less what you're going for, but it's still annoying. The purpose of an equipment section should be to provide clear rules for playing a game, not to simply vaguely document the general existence of every weapon used by any culture ever.

just so a few of you know, the brass knuckles in ultimate combat seem to be a good replacement for amulets of mighty fists. it allows a monk to use his unarmed damage thru them, though a strict gm would limit you to punches.

An animal companion or familiar can use any magic item for which it has the appropriate body slots. A monkey could wear a ring because it has fingers, but a dog could not (a human can't wear a ring as an earring, so a dog can't, either). Most animals can wear a shirt, or boots, or even a cloak or belt, but some may interfere with locomotion (an eagle wearing an appropriately-sized robe couldn't fly because even if it got its wings through the arm-holes, the robe's gonna mess with flapping).

Sean I really think it'd be far, FAR easier for Paizo to make a paperdoll diagram for familiars & animal companions with the basic magic slots they have and then allow GMs to expand upon that than letting the whole kit and kaboodle be houseruled in every game. A neat baseline that would be PFS legal would go a LONG way in Keeping It Simple...

I'll also second relooking at mundane items that help with action economy. Potion Belts, Adventurer's sashes, wrist sheathes, boot knives, etc. Or just updating what items can be pulled as move action or as part of a move action if you have a +1 BAB. Action economy is a fundamental part of the game and I understand the balance issues you as designers grapple with BUT for classes like Fighters & Rogues the two most gear dependant IMO having some nifty mundane gear to use their swift or immediate actions on would really be nice.

--Masterwork Vrock Picks

I would love some more magic items to keep the group standing without a divine caster / dedicated healer, so out of combat item that heals the group would be nice. Using dozens of wands of CLW kinda cheapens the effect of magic.

Other than that maybe a new material for armors, from my point of view mithral seem to be the best choice almost every time, there should be design space for some worthwile alternatives.

just so a few of you know, the brass knuckles in ultimate combat seem to be a good replacement for amulets of mighty fists. it allows a monk to use his unarmed damage thru them, though a strict gm would limit you to punches.

I don't mean to argue the point, but I cannot fathom why it would be considered a strict reading of raw to say brass knuckles would only apply to punches... a much cheaper alternative to the AoMF, but one that definitely has its own drawbacks (bound arms, grappling, etc)

More items that worked with class abilities especially the abilities that we get at early levels that are mostly unused later.

Example
An item that granted touch of chaos to a 30ft circle.

Staffs that are linked to schools, domains, mysteries, & patrons
To where if you have the staff you have the powers in that school, ect... Up to your level (or level -x) and you can swap spells for spells in these domains, ect....

More alchemical items, especially healing/buffing items.
Various herbs producing beneficial or harmful effects or both.

I am most excited about new alchemy items, other then they are cool they help with low magic games. I would like to see something like the cattale prod from the for Sherlock homes movie, and other alchemy weopons.

For magic items, the alchemy jug from 2nd e that let you make different types of liquids was always fun, so i would love to see more thinks like that, that have a cool effect but not necessarily combat related.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=BViZsQRGivI

PHARASMIAN TOMB STONE, BABY! They'll sell like hotcakes!

As mentioned above item slot for pants/skirts/kilts

Reworking the crafting rules similar to the "Making craft work" by Spes Magna Games.

item creation examples for non standard slot items Robe of armor (bracer of armor); belt of spell storing etc.

Flesh out item slots like the torso with more options like an enchatable cloth shirt.

special abilites for wondrous items only.

And finaly more mundane alchemical items that can be created with craft alchemy skill that do not need item creation feats.

More on alternate types of treasure. Raw materials, for example. What's an uncut/unfinished gem worth relative to the finished product? What's mithril ore worth compared to a similar weight of solid mithril bars?

Lists/appendices of equipment organized by skill.

A few different pre-priced adventuring "kits", removing the need to add up costs for backpack, bedroll, shovel, waterskin, tinderbox, whetstone, etc. etc.

Backpack frames or other items that allow an increased carrying capacity by redistributing weight without use of a feat or spell.

Meaningful variety in animal selection, a last among dogs and horses. Use traits and/or templates for this so you don't need a whole slew of separate animal writeups.

Meaningful illustrations. Some items are sufficiently common they may need no illustration at all, others might benefit from a sketch showing its scale relative to either a PC or objects of known size.

Have a look at Goods & Gear: the Ultimate Adventurer's Guide for d20 Kingdoms of Kalamar. I don't think they have any categories Pathfinder doesn't cover, but it's something like a 275 page book, which I think makes it a good deal larger than the combined equipment sections of various Pathfinder products combined.

I definitely second the requests for both better treasure generation and an index of items by slot. I'd also really like to see a few standardized equipment packages for GM and player reference. Stuff like "woodland travel package: 1 bedroll, 1 tent, 1 walking stick (quarterstaff), 3 waterskins..." so that we can easily generate a basic equipment set for NPCs or new players.

But the thing I want to see the most is both more "kits" (climber's kit, artisan's tools, etc.) and a breakdown of what is in them. The Arms and Equipment guide for Star Wars d20 had a few sidebars to this effect, and they were my favorite part of that book. It's really nice to know things like whether or not you need a whetstone if you already have an artisan's tools (weaponsmithing). And in my experience, it makes the PCs much more likely to improvise and come up with creative solutions.

Here are two examples of the kind of thing I'm talking about:

Items to Monks, Ninja/Rogues, and Alchemist would be cool
More Gunslinger Items would be cool as well

Mundane Alchemical items as well as poisons.

and lastly some more on fleshwarping and magic tattoos would be very neat as well.

This maybe too late in the design process to suggests this, but the "Slot Head" descriptor may need to be defined/clarified further.

Most human(oid) creatures have four of the five senses located on the Slot head. Think a solder's modern day protective helmet, communication gear, foul weather goggles AND flip down night-vision goggles.

Imagine, for instance, wearing the Glarecutter Goggles (or any eyewear) WITH the Veil of Veils (or any over the mouth/nose item). These two items worn at the same time would most likely NOT cause much of a problem. However, if one were to wear a helmet from Full Plate armor (which has a visored helmet) OR an "open faced" leather helmet then debates may most likely ensue. What if said helmets were magical themselves? Will the PC need to take off any other item(s) for one magic item to work? Do any or all of the magical effects cancel each other out?

How about wearing the above mentioned gear, in any combination WITH say the Grappler's Mask? (Read the item's entry and you'll see what I mean).

Although solutions will vary from game to game: common sense, GM/Player discussions and/or Paizo High Mucky-mucks say so should solve these types of problems. Something "official" from this book would surely cut down the ruleslawyering discussions.

A (humble) suggestion:

Slot Head: Eyes

This represents that the item goes over the eyes. The following Description then later states how this item works AND if it will be in benefit/conflict with any other Slot Head: item(s).

Besides, we all can't get/create a Decemvirate Helm ;p

Roman

PS: The above mentioned items were found on the d20PFSRD website.

There are tens of thousands of magic items out there. I want more than just more of the same. I have magic of faerun, the magic item compendium, relics and rituals, years of dragon magazine, heck I have all four encyclopedia magica if I really get desperate! What I want are innovations, many of which have been discussed here.

In particular I want craft to be a valuable skill, at all levels. Particularly craft:alchemy. It's a long way off from this book yet, please, I beseech you, think about doing something with it in here. It doesn't have to be a rewrite - new tricks, like more masterwork options or magical items that blend craft:alchemy with item creation feats would be just as satisfying, for me at least.

I'd also really like flavorful items that combine things I wouldn't normally think of, tied together with a little fluff. I'm tired of the ice staff, the fire staff, the teleporting staff, the healing staff etc ad nauseum. The book that did this best, IMO, was Magic of Faerun, with items like the war-wizard cloak and many others. I didn't have to have any FR specific fluff to find these evocative and inspiring. This book was also great for adding more special materials, and similarly Eberron gave us more magical substances, like special components, that really made magic feel like a part of the world, and not just a series of bonuses and extra spells per day.

I have absolute confidence that you innovaters at Paizo can not only do this, you can do it in a way that's better than what has come before and exceed my expectations. Please think outside the box, as I know you will, and go beyond making just another grab bag of items.

PHARASMIAN TOMB STONE, BABY!

I'm sure you meant, Pharasmin tombstone... ;-P