Judgement would be +1 attack, +1 damage, fast heal 1, or DR 1 if I'm not mistaken? Swift action.
Also... I'm going to let Arrian decide what he wants to do. The mass of goblins is currently being held back.
Indeed. GM, you should probably stop bothering Arrian about Judgement - when Persephone left, it was made fairly clear that Arrian, as our only member capable of healing, was going to be our divine healer, which, while not entirely proscribing him to one course of action, means that as the encounters grow more challenging, he actually spends less time doing interesting things and more time dealing with the party's injuries. The more you punish the entire group for Arrian treating the injuries sustained in your poorly balanced encounters, the more injuries need to be treated, and the less Arrian gets to use his combat abilities.
Quite frankly, I'm on the verge of dropping this game, and I think others feel the same way. Don't punish us because you don't understand how PF1E's combat works.
Yeah, I didn't want to say anything... but this combat encounter in specific seems... very lopsided. Two casters, two fighters, and some mooks?! There was going to be one other character that Juri managed to turn away. I'm kind of with Zeldrith here, not enough to drop the game -- but this encounter is frankly absurd.
I don’t agree on dropping, but Arrian definitely should make a choice on how to play without getting pressured. If we survive we probably need to add a 6th player that focuses on healing and support
Agreed with Ano. Possibly even earlier, but I understand if you don't want to throw a character in the middle of a combat.
I'm not trying to be short, but at the same time, I raised my concerns in PMs, and they were largely ignored. My intention is not to metagame, but I think it's worth mentioning that I do have access to the books for RotRL, and most of these encounters explicitly don't group together like this, fortifying their positions when the alarm is raised rather than seeking out the heroes - as much of a meat-grinder as RotRL is, there was at least an attempt at encounter balance within.
Plugging the numbers into the encounter calculator, this fight was initially an EL 9 encounter. After I raised my concerns, it was lowered to 'only' EL 7. That's not a fun, challenging encounter, that's an abattoir.
To be fair this is Rune’s first time GMing, so I’m giving them the benefit of the doubt, it wouldn’t be surprising if they expected us to not struggle this hard on the battle. I do understand the frustrations though. Something similar happened in the IRL RotRL gameplay I run in book 2 and when I realized they were struggling I gave the party a bit more breathing room to have a better chance.
At this point, if Nualia flees and she becomes a recurring character or not, let that happen. The priority now is staying alive and bailing.
In agreement with Ano and Zeldrith here.
All right, thanks for the feedback.
Yes, this is much more challenging than what is in the book, but the PCs are much more powerful than what the book foresees at this point.
To be clear, this is a dungeon for a 4-PCs party with far fewer options. With a 15-point buy array. Without Hero Points. Without Elephant in the room rules (although to be fair, I have given the enemies also EitR). And also, with much less equipment.
I think that up till now the party has been doing wonderfully in this encounter. 2 PCs have fallen, but the strongest of the enemies have also fallen, apart from the goblin rider.
Maybe I did err on the side of difficulty, but it's not easy to balance things when the party has such an advantage given what is foreseen in the books. And I gotta say, this is the first time in the entire book where the party has been actually challenged. And I think surviving this encounter will have that much emotional impact.
But yes, I will adjust things in the future, which is why I very much appreciate the feedback.
For Rune, I would recommend using this CR calculator in future usage to make sure we don’t get overwhelmed like this again. I’ve been using that to build up a unique encounter for the next IRL session that isn’t in the books, and it helped me map out which enemies to use without making the fight too difficult.
Yeah, before real-life overwhelmed me slash my players (in IRL case) I've been using that as well in the three games I ran. Was very useful, though admittedly I aired on the side of caution a bit TOO much between 5-6 player games and gestalt monstrosities that shredded things I threw at the Bloodrager.
Noted.
I'll also start recruitment for a healer. Arrian has already expressed he isn't happy being pushed to this role, and it seems that that can't be avoided without a dedicated character.
Yeah. If you're starting recruitment, maybe have them bust in through the secret entrance so they get a chance to play.
I'll try, but I don't know how soon I can post it. I'm on babysitting duty today for the rest of the day, and tomorrow morning I'll take baby to the Dr. But I'll try and hurry.
I know that’s the GM’s job but if you want I can make the post on recruitment if you’d like.
Each point:
Or Arrian can remember his Judgement class feature.
I didn't realize not using a once per day feature that lasts for one combat would really piss someone off so much. Understood.
Noted.
I'll also start recruitment for a healer. Arrian has already expressed he isn't happy being pushed to this role, and it seems that that can't be avoided without a dedicated character.
No Arrian did not express he wasn't happy about being pushed into this role. The player, Shadow Dragon, PMed you and said that I built Arrian with the understanding he would NOT be the party healer. Inquisitors are a 3/4 BAB class and, built as a martial, rely on casting Divine Favor to 'close the gap' and function better as a frontliner. Thus Arrian's spell slots were going to be used mainly for Divine Favor and he wouldn't have the ability to heal other PCs *and* fight more efficiently. I asked you back then to recruit another healer but you insisted we'd be fine and that's why you accepted 6 PCs for the inevitable drop.
Sorry I didn't use Judgement, sorry that my decision brought suffering onto the other players, sorry I build PCs to take advantage of class skills first so Arrian doesn't have Acrobatics to avoid falling in the Grease zone, sorry I didn't cast spells more often, sorry the die roller has been rolling low for me, and sorry for everything else.
I'm not going to get into specifics but I'm dealing with health issues where I need to avoid stress and aggravation. This game has now made both worse so please recruit for a replacement for Arrian as well as a healer.
At this point now I'M pissed off so please bot Arrian until you can find a replacement. If someone wants to send me a PM I can either email you his PC sheet or copy and paste it in a PM to you for use.
GM: Please remove .Arrian and Shadow Dragon from the 'Characters' section so this game does not appear on my feed. If you're unsure how to do that:
1) Go to any tab for the game and there's a button of the far left - 'Campaign Info' - click on that one.
2) There will be a URL link on the right-hand side that reads 'Edit This Campaign' - click on that.
3) Scroll down and you'll see two columns one for players, one for characters. Click the checkmarks under the 'Active' column to remove Shadow Dragon and .Arrian from the game.
Thanks to all of the players as you're a blast to have at the table and I wish you the best in this game and all of the others you're in. :)
I’m sorry that things have gotten so stressful that you have to leave Arrian, but take care of yourself, and good luck.
Considering all of this seems to be caused by Rune being a first time GM, I’ll be more than willing to help them with any struggles they have with GMing the game. Obviously not for anything that can be metabreaking but with general advice on GMing. Because I don’t want this game to fall apart because of this, I love playing with you all.
Clearly I've mismanaged things, and at least 2 players have been damaged from it.
I'll learn and grow from this, and I appreciate any and all patience the remaining players have for me. I was waiting until the end of the book to request some feedback, but I think now is a better time to do it.
Things I think I could have handled better:
- Specific requests from players.
- PbP pacing: In a dungeon, every door opening doesn't have to be a suspense, but some decisions need to be fast tracked or else everything grows stale.
- Not chiming into player's action.
- Maybe getting the difficulty to the brim isn't the most fun, and probably stressful for something that is supposed to relieve stress.
- Use CR calculator to calculate encounters.
I'd love to hear feedback from you guys, and appreciate any tips and help you can give.
And thanks Ano :-)
I must echo what Ano's said: I get how you feel Arrian, especially in regards to a role you didn't ask for getting shifted to you, and I respect your decision to depart based on that to prioritize your own needs. It's been great playing with you, and I'm gonna miss you.
And I do have to add, some of what made this encounter such a close call was just plain bad luck. I imagine we'd have done much better if Donimah hadn't spent, like 4 or 5 rounds running away due to a failed save.
Yeah, part of why I wasn't at the point of quitting is I realize that part of it (admittedly not all) is just plain bad luck. It was still an EL 9 that only got nerfed to an EL 7.
Yeah, that yeth hound panicking over half the party is probably 75% the reason why this fight went to hell, 15% was bad rolls (I mean for Desna’s sake, I had to use two hero points just to hit anything even with a bloodrage), and 10% was not having a dedicated healer/support role player.
Yeah. Do we go up to level 4 if they ran away? That's what Juriya's "can possibly heal myself" comment is for. 2
Of course you level up.
I can't post today, too much happening.
Character sheet updated.
Gained Trapfinding, Inspiration, and Extracts. Inspiration is probably going to be saved for Will saves.
Will update the character sheet in a bit but will put down what I get from 2nd level of bloodrager
-6 hp (I think we’re doing average for hp per level?)
-4th level ability point in Dexterity, going up to 17 (still +3)
-+1 Base ATK, +1 Fort
-4 skill ranks, going into Acrobatics, Diplomacy, Perception and Survival
-With a new rank in Linguistics for background skills, adding Elven to Ano’s list of languages
-New class ability-uncanny dodge (no more being flat-footed!)
Juriya doesn't ever get uncanny dodge funnily enough. She misses out on some good class features like Uncanny Dodge and Empiricist's will bonus against illusions. She's also stupped upping her Disguise and Intimidate, because Investigator has less skills than Rogue. Will similarly have to drop two more skills on the transition to Alchemist, since that's 2 less skills than Investigator.
I'm debating whether to put the ASI in INT so she can avoid buying INT headbands while still increasing it, or WIS. Because extra +1 Will. First priority for her in terms of wondrous items is a CON belt, though.
Once I get the money I will invest in a belt of dexterity, cloak of resistance and headband of inspired wisdom, keep the rest of the ASI to Charisma. I don’t think Ano is going to be casting magic all that often but it’ll help with the save DCs
Also only the GM can start the recruitment thread. I know that there’s a masterboard of people who submit applications for PbP games, we can browse through options there
Keep in mind probably best for one of them to be a dedicated healer.
Right. Level up is done
Also looks like I forgot to add the 6 hp from the 3rd level. That has been fixed
I think we should replace Arrian as well, so I'll open a healer spot and a flex one.
I guess it's my turn to get wrecked by the dice.
Apologies for the delay - Zeldrith is now leveled up and ready to continue!
Personally, I'm in favor of getting this mercenary before we head back, but I can understand if you just want to wait until the recruitment is over.
I've decided to keep her ASI in INT. 19 INT Rogue, baby!
I've decided to keep her ASI in INT. 19 INT Rogue, baby!
Smart...
Get it? Tehe
Tomorrow I will be traveling with my family for 9 days. My posting may be spotty in the period.
When I get home I’ll keep a list of who is applying and what they’re gonna play.
We already got three good ideas for non healers-oread unchained monk, an investigator, and a kobold summoner with a dragon-shaped eidolon
Technically the Investigator could be a healer, but it probably wouldn't be what we're looking for in the healer character. It depends on if they take Infusion.
For the record, Juri isn't taking that until MUCH later, at level 9. Until then, CLW wand.
Donimah's taken another level in Thassilonian Specialist Transmuter
Ability Score Increase: +1 Intelligence (new language, Aklo)
HP (Favored Class Bonus):
Skills: Knowledge (arcana) +1, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +1, Knowledge (history) +1, Knowledge (planes) +3, Knowledge (religion) +1, Linguistics +1 (new language, Elven), Sense Motive +1, Use Magic Device +1
Spellbook: Communal Protection from Evil, Create Pit, Visualization of the Mind
NEXT TIME I'll be ABLE to at least TRY to use the wand!
Oh yeah! She has a formula book now:
Cure Light Wounds, Shield, Coin Shot, Reduce Person, Blend, Tears to Wine.
She's presumably going to prepare mostly CLW, but I could see Reduce and Tears to Wine coming in handy. I also arranged some skills so she can be trained and have the CS bonus to Religion and Planes for identifying monsters, so they're useful when it comes time to double her INT bonus to knowledge.
We definitely need to start a loot table. I think we sold everything from last go around to pay for our armor upgrades, though, so I think we're in the clear? Might want to go back and clear Thistletop for loot though, we're kind of strapped for cash right now.
Also, Donimah, thank you for reminding me Visualization of the Mind exists lmao. Wonderful spell.
Now that I'm thinking about it: Tears to Wine (enhancement to skills), Cognatogen (alchemical bonus to scores), Visualization of the Mind (typeless to skills), Eagle's Splendor (enhancement to INT), and Fox's Cunning (enhancement to CHA) all stack. That is downright horrifying, but good to know if we ever run into a do-or-die skill check.
I'd like to hear your thoughts about the submissions so far. Please PM me with opinions and considerations.
Also, would you guys be ok if Arrian were to rejoin the group? That, never leave? In terms of the recruitment, I think it might be unfair to close the flex spot, but again, we're still 2 days from deadline, so it might be ok. Please comment.
I thought Arrian was clear that he left, but if he wants to rejoin I’m not complaining.
If Arrian IS interested in rejoining, I certainly won't say no. Legit, no hard feelings, I understand they were frustrated with how things went. Have they spoken to you in private? Or were you planning on extending an invitation and apology to them?
We've already spoken. He wants to rejoin.
In that case, I say "Welcome back!" :)
Still need Zel's ok for this. I want unanimity, as it wouldn't be fair otherwise.
If he does come back we need to let those in recruitment know that the nonhealer spot is taken.
Well, if he wants to come back, I'm all for it. I know he had mentioned some health issues, but if he'd like to return, I think that's his prerogative as a recently departed player.
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Thanks all for the return visit. :)
My vision is an issue so if someone could double check me with notes, keeping track of charges on wands, etc. I would appreciate it.