Orcs, ferocity, and the Diehard feat


Rules Questions


I'm curious, what benefit does an orc (all of which have ferocity) gain when taking the Diehard feat?


Ferocity wrote:
(Ex) A creature with ferocity remains conscious and can continue fighting even if its hit point total is below 0. The creature is still staggered and loses 1 hit point each round. A creature with ferocity still dies when its hit point total reaches a negative amount equal to its Constitution score.
Diehard wrote:

When your hit point total is below 0, but you are not dead, you automatically stabilize. You do not need to make a Constitution check each round to avoid losing additional hit points. You may choose to act as if you were disabled, rather than dying. You must make this decision as soon as you are reduced to negative hit points (even if it isn't your turn). If you do not choose to act as if you were disabled, you immediately fall unconscious.

When using this feat, you are staggered. You can take a move action without further injuring yourself, but if you perform any standard action (or any other action deemed as strenuous, including some swift actions, such as casting a quickened spell) you take 1 point of damage after completing the act. If your negative hit points are equal to or greater than your Constitution score, you immediately die.

Mainly that they don't lose a hit point per round while below 0, it looks like.


Piccolo wrote:
I'm curious, what benefit does an orc (all of which have ferocity) gain when taking the Diehard feat?

With Ferocity, you always lose 1 hit point per round when in negative HP.

With Diehard, you may or may not lose hp when negative depending on your actions for that round. You can also choose whether or not you go unconscious at negative HP, unlike ferocity which requires you to stay conscious.


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Also, there are feats that have Diehard as a prerequisite, for which Ferocity does not qualify.


Saethori wrote:
Also, there are feats that have Diehard as a prerequisite, for which Ferocity does not qualify.

Like what? See, I have a player in my campaign that has Endurance, Diehard, and ferocity already.


Of particular note is the Deathless Initiate line of feats, which not only have Diehard as a prerequisite, they also require being an orc or half-orc (which, under average circumstances, have Ferocity or Orc Ferocity already). The feat chain grants added benefits towards using Diehard, such as removing the staggered condition or removing the hit point loss. They're from Ultimate Combat.

Of more general use is a series of feats in Advanced Player's Guide that require Diehard, but instead give other enduring-related benefits.

Scarab Sages

Piccolo wrote:
Saethori wrote:
Also, there are feats that have Diehard as a prerequisite, for which Ferocity does not qualify.
Like what? See, I have a player in my campaign that has Endurance, Diehard, and ferocity already.

As mentioned, the Deathless feat line, requires diehard. I personally find that feat line very weak.

Other feats:

Fast Healer, which increases HP gained from magical healing.

Heroic Defiance, which gives a once per day option to delay a harmful condition or affliction.

Heroic Recovery, which gives a once per day extra save against a harmful condition or affliction.

Stalwart & Improved Stalwart, which give DR/- instead of AC when fighting defensively.

Survivor, which gives bonuses to stabilize, plus a once per day option to negate a critical or sneak attack as an immediate action.

Tenacious Survivor, an Orc/Half-Orc racial feat, which allows deceased characters to be revived with merely by magical healing. This one is banned in PFS, but is otherwise an amazing feat.

To The Last, a Gorum worshiper specific feat, which allows you to ignore the staggarded/disabled condition while using diehard.

There is also a Prestige Class, the Pain Taster, from Occult Mysteries, which requires diehard as a prerequisite. PS: this class is really fun to play and is perfect for Half-Orcs with the City-Raised racial trait.

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