Campaign Update
Alchemical Recipe: The common alchemical recipes can be purchased for 50gp per recipe. Note however, if you have taken Craft[Alchemy] and Profession[Alchemy] then you may attempt to create your own recipes which may or may not cost as much depending on how well you roll.
This is for anyone that has taken Craft[Alchemy] or any other Craft skill and did not take the reciprocal Profession skill (aka the Craft Knowledge skill).
When making a Knowledge Check (Int) use the following guideline for what information that is known:
DC 10 for common knowledge, known by at least a substantial minority of the local population
DC 15 for uncommon knowledge, known by only a some people within the area
DC 20 for rare knowledge, known by a only a few people within the area, basically hard to come by.
DC 25 for obscure knowledge, known by only a select few period, extremely hard to come by.
DC 30+ for extremely obscure knowledge, known perhaps by one or two very knowledgable folks or possibly forgotten by most who once knew about it or possible known only by those who do not understand the significane of that knowledge.
In many cases, one can use their Knowledge skill to identify monsters and their special powers or vulnerabilities. In general, the DC of such a check equals 10 + the monster's HD. A successful check allows the character to remember a bit of useful information about that monster. For every full 3 points the required check exceeds the DC, the character recalls another peice of useful information.
Note: A non-proficient Knowledge check is simply just an Intelligence check but without proficiency, the maximum result of the check (regardless of what was rolled) is 10 or basically common knowledge.
Zahir ibn Mahmoud ibn Jothan
Yes I would allow this but I would pull a concept from DnD 1e when it came to crafting magic items (which I also allow). Some ingredients cannot be bought but must instead be found.
Second I would tier that spell for a +2 Masterwork you would need just to cast the 2nd level spell and Components would be Common so you could buy them all or gather them fairly easily. Then as follows:
+3 Masterwork a 3rd level casting of that spell Common Components
+4 Masterwork a 4th level casting of that spell Uncommon Components
+5 Masterwork a 5th level casting of that spell Uncommon Components
+6 Masterwork a 5th level casting of that spell Rare Components
+7 Masterwork a 5th level casting of that spell Rare Components
+8 Masterwork a 5th level casting of that spell Very Rare Components
+10 Masterwork a 5th level casting of that spell Very Rare Components
Also the less common the components the harder it would be to discern what those components would be. So yeah just like researching how to make a magic item.
Further, Common Components does not always mean that all the Components would be Common nor does Very Rare mean that all the Components are Very Rare -- just the likelihood of them leaning more to that end is what actually occurs. Of course once you have a recipe, you just need to follow it.
So yes if a spell caster wanted to circumvent having something actually Masterworked they could use magic to do it. Just the finer the crafting the more magical power it requires to get it done right.
Keep in mind a Craftsman who makes such an item of that quality would almost be pouring their life into it and probably take most their lifetime to acheive it if they ever did. Can you say they supplied the components of: Blood, Sweat, Tears, and Soul/Spirit
Next keep in mind each +1 carries a x5 multiplier so to say make a Masterwork Longsword +5 To Hit +5 Damage (aka 10 levels of Masterwork) would have a x9,765,625 multiplier to its base price
As a final note, an item does not have to be of Masterwork quality to be turned into a magic item, wizards just started that lie so they could make more money and of course who wants to pump magical power into dinged up old item. Although sometimes it does help in crafting a magic item to use a masterwork base.
Alright, time to see what the dice have in store. Several others have already jumped on my first few ideas, maybe the numbers will lend me guidance....
= 12
= 17
= 16
= 18
= 13
= 17
Well that's definitely something to work with. Hmm, maybe a martial character? Seems we are heavy on the spells/skills side currently.
Let's see what I got to work with...
8 (ow!)
15
14
17
16
15
I can work with it. :P
Campaign Addendum
Background Skills: Yes we will be using Background Skills except Artistry is a Craft skill and Lore is not a skill at all it is covered under Knowledge as specialization. If you choose to specialize in a Knowledge skill for each 1 rank spent it equates to 2 ranks and adds to the base Knowledge ranks, however you still cannot exceed the normal maximum
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Zahir ibn Mahmoud ibn Jothan wrote:
Do I interpret this will be a rather Lovecraftian game, set in Greyhawk?
Will it be a Lovecraftian game, no because in a Lovecraftian game either no one survives or one person survives and they are in the insane asylum. Will it have elements of Lovecraft within it yes but it will still be a Pathfinder 1e game set in Greyhawk.
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Dain Bramage
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Note everything is a suggestion it is not written in stone until you choose or choose not to accept the suggestion. It is your character not mine. ALSO please add your character's Background to the character sheet at the bottom and let me know when it is there.
Okay I went through your equipment list and pitch things I thought were redundant or useless for your character and then went about making sure you spent the allotted amount of resources as well as ahered to things I stated about permanent magic items. That being said he is the new equipment list that I came up with.
Book of Grudges Wgt 5 lbs Cost 0gp
Warhammer (Silvered) Wgt 5 lbs Cost 24gp
Dagger Wgt 2 lbs Cost 2gp
Quiver Wgt 1 lbs Cost 1gp
Arrows (20) Wgt 1 lbs Cost 1gp
Scale Mail MW +2 Wgt 30 lbs Cost 1,250gp
Light Wood Shield MW +1 Wgt 5 lbs Cost 15gp
Wand of CLW (50 chgs) Wgt 0 lbs Cost 750gp
Potion Swimming (x3) Wgt 0 lbs Cost 750gp
Celestial Lamp Wgt 2 lbs Cost 300gp PMI (Permanent Magic Item)
Flask Holy Water (x5) Wgt 5 lbs Cost 125gp
Potion Belt MW (Cap 10) Wgt 1 lbs Cost 5gp
Backpack Wgt 2 lbs Cost Free (bonus from Inquisitor Kit)
Bedroll Wgt 5 lbs Cost 0.1gp
Flint and Steel Wgt 0 lbs Cost 1gp
Iron Pot Wgt 4 lbs Cost 0.8gp
Mess Kit Wgt 1 lbs Cost 0.2gp
Rope, Silk 50 ft Wgt 5 lbs Cost 10gp
Soap Wgt 1 lbs Cost 0.5gp
Trail Rations (5 days) Wgt 5 lbs Cost 2.5gp
Waterskin Wgt 5 lbs Cost 1gp
Whetstone Wgt 1 lbs Cost 0.02gp
Remain Coins: 9gp 7sp 8cp
First what spells are in your book: 3 + 0 at first level, but I would allow additional spells to have been recorded for 2nd and 3rd level based on your Charisma bonus (minimum +1 per level) thus 2 more spells. Plus if you bought any scrolls and spent the necessary coinaige you could copy these into your book as well.
I did not alter Greed but have included it which changes the following to maintain balance...
Hatred: If confronted by their racial enemies (Orcs and Goblins) they must focus their efforts to eliminate these foes first above all others or suffer a -2 To Hit and Damage. Further if Orcs or Goblins are present, they must make a Will check DC 15 or immediately attack them.
Your character gets the Feat: Weapon Focus (War Hammer) for free because it is his Patrons favored weapon and it is a weapon gained by Dwarven Weapon Training.
Next I have you spending only 15 of your 18 Active Skill Points and you get an additional 6 Background Skill points. Please let me know where you spend these. For your Active Skill Points might I suggest at least 1 point in Arcana, Underdark, and Spell Craft and maybe Diplomacy and Heal then maybe bump Intimidate up to a 3. Also some of your totals for the skills you did choose were wrong, here are the correct total values: Intimidate 5, Perception 8, Sense Motive 9, Survival 8, Swim 1, Knowledge[Planar] 5, Knowledge[Religion] 5
Book of Grudges
This is a Cold Iron Bound Tome equipped with a solid chain and large ring at the end of that chain. When not being wielded as a weapon or used as a reliquary the chain can wrap about the waist and allow the book to hang off to the side. It weighs 5 lbs.
Cold Iron: This affects Fae, Fiends, and Undead (except Wights and Wraiths) bypassing Damage Reduction and inflicting an additional 1d4 points of non-reducible damage.
Low-Light Vision: They have eyes that are so sensitive to light that they can see twice as far as normal in dim light. Low-light vision is color vision. An individual with low-light vision can read a scroll or other writing as long as even the tiniest candle flame is next to them as a source of light. Further they can see outdoors on a moonlit night as well as they can during the day.
Animated Undead: are exactly what the spells says. One is just animated Bones the other animated Flesh and Bone which is actually nothing different per se than an Animated Chair. Thus they are not True Undead, they are simply just a semi-Construct. The biggest difference between the Skeletons and Zombies in the Beistry is you will not find them if their is no Animator around unless the animation has been made permanent. Now I do have True Undead Skeletons and Zombies but they are not as weak as the animated ones plus they do have a connection to the negative plane with all that entails. However, most folks still believe that Animated Skeletons and Zombies are Undead.
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Everyone Please Note the Following
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Some of the tweaks are aesthetic only and others are mechanical.
Animals (instead of Handle Animals)
Fly (attribute varies either Str, Con, or Dex based on action)
Legerdemain (instead of Sleight of Hand as that is its definition)
Spell Craft (attribute Wis instead of Int because Knowledge[Arcana] is the Int skill about spells)
Knowledge[Underdark] (instead of Dungeoneering seemed more appropriate)
Craft (attribute Wis instead of Int)
Profession (attribute Int instead of Wis as like knowledge skills it cannot be used Untrained)
Also if it helps any we metaphored the meanings for Int and Wis:
Intelligence - Knowing WHAT to do
Wisdom - Knowing WHEN to do
Silvered: This usually affects Shifters, Devils, Night Hags, Wights, and Wraiths bypassing Damage Reduction and inflicting an additional 1d4 points of non-reducible damage. Only the metal of a weapon can be Silvered and it doubles the base cost of the weapon.
Cold Iron: This usually affects Fae, Fiends, and Undead bypassing Damage Reduction and inflicting an additional 1d4 points of non-reducible damage. Only the metal of a weapon can be made of Cold Iron and it doubles the base cost of the weapon.
Note: A weapon cannot be both Silvered and Cold Iron
Lastly folks if you feel you are done with your character enough for a review please let know and I will look it over and give you feedback.
Grumbaki here. I'm withdrawing Sigmundr, and will be saving him for a different campaign. I was thinking about how to make him fit in with this campaign, and everything was just too much of a stretch. So replacing him with Lars, who will be from Dunwhich.
Race: Human
Class: Golemfist Hexcraft Magus
Special Snowflake: Has lost both arms, which have been replaced
Deity: Wee Jas
Just need to finish picking spells that aren’t going to be prepared. So ready to be looked at
Lars is a native born son of Dunwhich. Something of a prodigy in his youth, his parents spared as much expense as they could giving him a proper education. And when he came of age, and it became clear that he had some magical ability, they spent more than they could to hire an out of town tutor, so that as he came to adulthood he could be sent to the city of Niole Dra, for a formal education as a mage. Paid for by a term of service in the army crown's army. To say that his parents, and the town at large, were proud of him would have been an understatement.
He returned, far sooner than any could have expected. He had left the town as a starry eyed youth, ready to conquer the world. He returned a changed man, with the most obvious signs being his arms. They were both gone, replaced by ones made of shining metal. When asked what had happened, he would generally refuse to answer unless deep into his cups. Should it be pried out of him, he would explain that after finishing his studies he was apprenticed to a battle mage, who in turn was attached to the Navy which was sent by the crown to put the Sea Princes in check. It was in his first engagement that was also his last. Captured by the pirates, he was returned sans arms and with a message: the territory of the Sea Princes was not to be challenged.
But of his arms? When pressed he generally just mutters that he owes a debt. In truth, his new arms were gained, not through the pity of the crown, the beneficence of his mentor, or through his own skills. Rather, they came through a ritual, in which he was blessed by the goddess Wee Jas. But it did not come for free. And her price? Lars will know when she names it, for he has gotten the benefit, in exchange for a task of the goddess' choosing.
Until such a time comes, Lars has returned to the town of his birth. After the shock of his arrival and new appearance wore off, he returned to his old life, a source of gossip, and truth be told, disappointment, for he held such promise and returned home with little to show for it. And yet, while his life goes on much as it ever would, he holds in his heart a deep, burning hatred for the Sea Princes, for what their forces had done to him, and a worry as towards what price he will be called upon to pay.
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Finally, I really like the image of having two false arms. One used for offense (his right arm, the Golemfist) and the other used for defense (his left arm, which has his buckler built into it). If there are any questions please tell me
Your choice Grumbaki but you did not give me a chance to work with you on Sigmundr's Background we might have been able to pull something together that was not such a stretch. Still I will look Lars over.
Thanks. I just felt that (in my mind) it was a stretch to get him there with local ties. And when a campaign is so localized, it works best to have someone who easily fits in.
I have rarely found a game that did not tend to be localized in one way or the other. I just prefer to stay away from the stereo-typical - A bunch of strangers meet in a taveren, and even they do not know one another at all, decide to go on an adventure together trusting their life in the hands of folks they know nothing about. Which I have always found to be an extreme stretch when it comes to roleplaying the situation. I have even used this to ambush the PCs ;-) just to demonstrate how unlikely that scenario would really occur.
Thus this is why I like to work with the players and outline why they are where they are at as well as help give them some kind of invested interest in where they are at. Elements often missing from games but should not be.
Well those are amazing!! Will have to remember to praise the dice gods more often!!
Now those are impressive rolls. Looks like they are good for any type of class. :)
So, out of curiosity, here is what we are looking at right now:
Dain Bramage
* Dwarven Living Grimoire Inquisitor
* Enchanted book of grudges
* Profession: Caravan Guard (survived his last caravan being wiped out)
Parsnip Widdleton
* Halfing Vigilante
* Daggers (of justice!)
* Profession: Barrister by Day, Enforcer by Night
Vakmu Marshborn
* Half-Orc Unsworn Shaman
* Spirit Animal: pet dog-Biter
* Profession: Healer and herbalist. Left his tribe in the Hool Marshes for the comforts of civilization.
William the Destroyer
* Human Evoker Wizard
* Profession: Battle Mage who returned to Dunwhich in his quest to explode evil.
Travoril the Scrivener
* Half-Elf Cleric of Labelas Enoreth
* Profession: Missionary from the Sheldomar Valley.
Lars Ulcaster
* Human Golemfist Hexcrafter Magus
* Profession: Injured Veteran and discharged battlemage. Currently works with family in Dunwhich as a smith.
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6 completed characters so far. 2 Humans, 1 Half-Orc, 1 Half-Elf, 1 Halfling, 1 Dwarf.
Zaboom here, in the process of drafting up a half-orc sorceress who presents as a crappy warrior.
Okay first you will find I do not call them half-elf nor half-orc (human derogatory names) nor do I call them half-human (an elf and orc respectively derogatory name). A hybrid Elf/Human is called fFolk (fff-OLK) and the hybrid Orc/Human is called Uriak (yur-REE-ak). Also I do not call them halflings (by cannon a derogatory name humans gave the Hin). Although most Hin allow those not in the know to use that term as it helps them to be under-estimated as well as helps them to know who is and is not intelligent. However, this does not mean the common Human or Orc does not use the derogatory terms as they are normal folks after all. Elves being a slightly higher grade refer to fFolk as cousin (slightly derogatory although they do not mean to be so - they feel it elevates the lesser race by granting the kin status) and Hin as Hin although most still refer to Uriaks as Half-Orcs. Also I think the following covers the remaining outstanding races that I have not already covered.
Attributes:[/] Str +2, Con +2
[b]Size: Medium
Speed: 30ft
Senses: Low-Light Vision
Keen Senses: Gain a +2 Racial Bonus to Perception checks
Intimidating: Gain +2 Racial Bonus on Intimidation checks
Off-Putting: Receive a -2 Racial Penalty on Diplomacy checks
Orc Blood: They count as both Human and Orc for any effect related to race.
Weapon Familiarity: Gain proficiency with Bow (Short and Long), Great Axe, and Falchion. If already proficient with Martial Weapons due to their 1st-level class they gain the Feat Weapon Focus with one of these weapons. They treat any weapon with the word Orc in its name as a Martial Weapon.
Orc Ferocity: When the character damages a creature with their Melee Attack, they gain a +1 Morale Bonus on their next Attack roll until the end of their next turn.
Languages: Begin with Orc and Keolan (local human language)
Potential Additional Languages: Any modern non-secret language
Attributes: Dex +2, Cha +2 Str -2
Size: Small
Speed: 20 ft
Senses: Normal
Keen Senses: Gain a +2 Racial Bonus to Perception checks
Hin Luck: Gain a +1 Racial Bonus on all Saves
Fearless: Gain a +2 Racial Bonus on all Saves vs Fear and to Sure-Footed: Gain a +2 Racial Bonus to Acrobatic and Climb skill checks and can use their Dexterity instead of Strength for Climb checks.
Resist Intimidation this stacks with Hin Luck.
Underfoot: Gain a +1 Dodge Bonus to AC against foes larger than themselves and a +1 Racial Bonus on Reflex Saves to avoid Trample attacks this stacks with Hin Luck.
Weapon Familiarity Gain Proficiency with All Thrown Weapons, (Blowgun, Slings, Darts, etc.) including Improvised Thrown Weapons. If and treat any weapon with the Word Hin in its name as a Martial Weapon.
Languages: Begin with Hin and Keolan (local human)
Potential Additional Languages: Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, or Goblin
Attributes: Attribute of Choice +2
Size: Medium
Speed: 30 ft
Senses: Low-Light Vision
Keen Senses: Gain a +2 Racial Bonus to Perception checks
Adaptability: Gain Bonus Feat Skill Focus
Elf Blood: They count as both humans and elves for any effect related to race
Elf Immunities: Immune to Magic Sleep effects, +2 Racial Bonus to Saves versus Enchantment magic.
Multi-Talented: They can choose two Favored Classes at 1st-level and gain a +1 HP and +1 Skill Point whenever they take level in either class.
Weapon Familiarity Gain Proficiency with All Thrown Weapons, (Blowgun, Slings, Darts, etc.) including Improvised Thrown Weapons. If and treat any weapon with the Word Hin in its name as a Martial Weapon.
Languages: Begin with Elven and Keolan (local human)
Potential Additional Languages: Any modern non-secret language
Attributes: Attribute of Choice +2 and +1 to 2 other different Attributes
Size: Medium
Speed: 30 ft
Senses: Normal
Human Versatility: Gain an Extra Feat (total of 2 at 1st level)
Skilled: Gain an 1 Additional Skill Point per Level and the Skill Focus Feat
Elf Immunities: Immune to Magic Sleep effects, +2 Racial Bonus to Saves versus Enchantment magic.
Multi-Talented: They can choose two Favored Classes at 1st-level and gain a +1 HP and +1 Skill Point whenever they take level in either class.
Weapon Familiarity Gain Proficiency with All Thrown Weapons, (Blowgun, Slings, Darts, etc.) including Improvised Thrown Weapons. If and treat any weapon with the Word Hin in its name as a Martial Weapon.
Languages: Begin with Keolan (local human) and either Elven, Dwarven, Gnome, or Hin
Potential Additional Languages: Any modern non-secret language
Oh if you do not understand my math in balancing the races you can ask and I will explain otherwise enjoy being as well off as the Elf and Dwarf races have always been. ;-)
Oh and you will notice I do not have "Common" the local human language is Keolan or Human by other races. Also there are names for all the languages spoken by each race and if you care to know them (I did not want to get to confusing) I will share them with you.
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Here is my first stab at the character...please check and get back to me about changes and such...thanks!
Cade Thornhollow
Male halfling rogue 3
N Small humanoid (halfling)
Init 5; Senses Perception +9
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Defense
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AC 18, touch 16, flat-footed 13 (+2 armor, +5 Dex, +1 size)
hp 22 (3d8+6)
Fort 4, Ref 9, Will 4; +2 vs. fear
Defensive Abilities evasion, trap sense +1
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Offense
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Speed 20 ft.
Melee dagger +8 (1d3+1 P or S/19+) or
. . dagger +8 (1d3+1 P or S/19+)
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Statistics
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Str 13, Dex 20, Con 14, Int 13, Wis 15, Cha 18
Base Atk +2; CMB 2; CMD 17
Feats Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (sling), Whip-slinger
Traits child of the streets, well-informed
Skills Acrobatics +12 (+8 to jump), Appraise +7, Bluff +9, Climb +7, Diplomacy +9 (+10 to gather information), Disable Device +10, Disguise +8, Escape Artist +9, Knowledge (local) +7, Linguistics +5, Perception +9, Profession (gambler) +8, Sense Motive +7, Sleight of Hand +11, Stealth +15; Racial Modifiers +2 Acrobatics, +2 Climb, +2 Perception
Languages Common, Custom Language, Gnome, Halfling
Combat Gear caltrops; Other Gear leather armor, dagger, dagger, backpack, bedroll, belt pouch, chalk (10), flint and steel, grappling hook, hemp rope (50 ft.), mess kit[UE], mirror, piton (10), soap, thieves' tools, trail rations (5), waterskin, 2,936 gp
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Special Abilities
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Evasion (Ex) If succeed on Reflex save for half dam, take none instead.
Fearless +2 bonus to save vs. fear (stacks with halfling luck).
Sneak Attack +2d6 Attacks deal extra dam if flank foe or if foe is flat-footed.
Trap Sense +1 (Ex) +1 bonus on reflex saves and AC against traps.
Trapfinding +1 Gain a bonus to find or disable traps, including magical ones.
Whip-Slinger Use sling as a sap and threaten adjacent spaces.
On my phone so I will change things on my big computer. Dain doesn't have the int or cha for higher spells. I decided to leave him at 11 int since I found it funny that he handles nasties the Discworld way by smacking it with a big book
Good catch pad300 thanks -- I will post fixed versions into the Campaign -- my apology for the copy/paste errors
Dain Bramage I enjoy characters created with flaws that make them seem a bit less than perfect but have a means to over come their short comings.
We once had a Half-Orc Cleric with an 8 Charisma after roll playing for a while and due to how they were roll playing the character created a feat or a couple feats to allow them to use their Wis (aka their Faith) in place of their Charisma -- oh in that system Charisma was what your Will save was based on. They were simply initially not self-confident which kind of match the player. So interestingly enough both the character and the player become a bit more self confident as things progressed.
Okay I think I have fixed all the copy/paste typos within the Campaign tab for each race. However, if you see anything that seems odd our downright wrong please let me know.
Reroll
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Okay to reiterate this
As I go through your characters I may post something BUT
It Is Only A Suggestion You Are The Player You Have Final Say So Even If It Has To Do With Mechanics As Those Are Merely Guidelines
Lastly There Is Only One Rule And That Is The Golden Rule Everything Else Is A Guideline.
Golden Rule: It Is A Game Have Fun
Also all I will be trying to do with your character is to make sure it is correct and then make any suggestions I feel might help make your character more fun. While I do not want anyone breaking the game I do want you all to get the most so you are less likely to ghost ;-)
pad300 I see you opted to take different Racial Feats to modify your character concept (unbalanced trades mind you). Still I find what you have taken as intriguing and I have a couple of ideas as to how we can theme this and perhaps get it into play.
However, first I need to know what your thoughts are/were on the reasons for the Racial Feats you took in regards to who your character is and what they are about. If you simply took them to get the effects that is fine but in case you did not I would like to know your thoughts and reasoning.
What we do with this could help me with helping you define your spirit animal which I noticed you have as ???
Now I will say this have two potential idea-paths in front of me. To me one is okay and I can breath some life into while the other is bit spicer but dicer and has greater role-playing potential I think. Now they will both work mind you to implement what you have outlined so no worries there.
Look forward to hearing your thoughts and such.
Oh I am not sure if any of you have bothered to do any research on the region yet but the area in and around Dunwich (aka Dunwater Marsh) is extremely foggy most of the time due to the mixing of marsh and sea air (I think that is how they described it)
This would definitely be something everyone would be aware of and it is not all that insignificant so I am bringing it up instead surprising you with it because you did not research where you live ;-)
Also things that you might read about the area can be considered rumors, myths, perhaps disguised truths, etcetera
Oh and again its fog which means it limits vision of nearly all kinds. Which can be a good thing or a bad thing depending on the situation.
pad300 why did you change your character again -- I said I was sure we could mmake it work I just needed to know what direction you wanted to go in. I mean sure you can chuck the entire idea but that kind of means all the perhaps cool ideas I had for your potential character have just gotten thrown out the window.
Further each new submission pushes you farther down the list since that means more work for me assuming I get back to your character again.
So please let me know if you truly want to go forward with this 3rd character or if you want to talk over the 2nd character and see what it turns out to be.
Daniel Stewart the fluff can sometimes be as important or more important than the mechanics as it is the fluff that I use to tie you into the world and the campaign. Sure sometimes a mechanic might spark an idea but I usually roll that back into the fluff to make sure I am ambling down the path the player has set out for the character.
Okay pad300 what your are not taking into account is that I took your 2nd character concept and put a significant amount of effort into it and your 3rd iteration came after I had come back with my response to your 2nd character concept which I feel is actually a lot richer than your 3rd concept.
As for the reason you produced a 3rd Iteration I find that kind of sad as that seems to mean you are only interested in maximizing your mechanics and the roleplay aspect of the character are thus seemingly unimportant to you. This was part of the reason I held back on denoting the changes as I wanted folks to create characters not mechanics.
Also please remember there is only one of me but many of you so I ultimately have to put in a significant amount of effort above and beyond what each of you put forth.
Quick Notes on your 3rd Iteration
I stated Permanent Magic Items were on a special case situation and I am not sure I will allow the Handy Haversack, further you have more than one permanent magic item.
The background read a lot better when it was an Uriak that had dragon-blood (or some other special blood that allowed what the dragon-blood was granting).
I mean you went from something that was a fairly rich concept to something that is a lackluster vanilla concept.
Also, your 2nd Iteration as I said had 2 interesting paths we could pursue -- but of course this was with the assumption you might enjoy something that had some extra roleplaying aspects to it.
Lastly I will restate -- the players are many -- the GM is but one -- and the math (because of what I do as a GM) means I am going to be putting in at least 4 times as much effort than any single player is going to do. So please keep that in mind too.
So all that being said, can I ask what was so wrong with your 2nd Iteration that you felt you needed this 3rd Iteration and/or would you be interested in revisiting the 2nd Iteration?
P.S. I am not a DM I graduated from that long ago, I am not even a GM any more (the next tier up), but a ST (Story Teller) the next to last rank.
Okay I do not suppose either pad300 or Zhair will see this but I am guessing my last set of statements came across totally wrong -- and I apologies for that -- yes I can say things the wrong way and mean nothing ill or mean as I am not quite wired they way most folks seem to be wired. I live with it but I do try to be respective of others, even though I still fail periodically. If I ever say something that comes across sounding bad please let me know so I can apologise and we can move forward.
To be clear I did not mean to say that pad300 has been having bad wrong fun that was not the intent. Not sure how I could have communicated that without it being apparently insulting but again that was not my reason for stating that. I basically got excited about the concepts presented within the 2nd iteration so perhaps that is where I should have stopped -- not sure.
From my end I took it as you saying “This is a conversation. No need to make drastic changes. And too many iterations makes it hard for me to review every application. Let’s talk before doing anything drastic.” And it was taken as “You keep asking me to change and I’m frustrated doing so.”
Anyways, communication online can be hard. Nobody should take an honest misunderstanding to heart
Thanks Grumbaki again me being wired differently I never know if how I say something is going to be offensive even when that is not what is in my head nor my heart.
All I want to do is help everyone make a character that they will have a lot of fun with in the game I am running and perhaps help them make a character that others will enjoy almost as much playing along with.
Still it is such a shame, that 2nd iteration had my creative juices just bubbling over with possibilites and I just wanted to find out what things that player would have fun playing with. Some players enjoy juicy characters with a little bite to them, others a meaty character is all they want, and yes still others like a vanilla character.
There is nothing wrong with whatever style the player enjoys playing and there is nothing wrong with a vanilla character if that is all you want to play and I can respect that as sometimes I play a more vanilla character from time to time but I do lean towards the juicy with a bite it is just I cannot always find a DM/GM/ST capable of helping to build it because those do require DM/GM/ST input.
Daniel Stewart I have gone through your character and mechanically you are missing some things and of course without any guide posts (aka character fluff) that makes it harder to make recommendations but I will still give it a shot. Everyone else you might be interested in some of what I state here as it could prove helpful to your character as well.
First you might want to look at this Rogue Unchained as this one is a slightly better Rogue class than what is in the Core Book. Of course along with that you will want to look at Rogue Unchained Talents
Now I do want to state just in case you are not aware, you can swap Sure-Footed for Fleet-Footed the difference is Fleet-Footed increases the character's base speed to 30 feet. If you were aware, or simply just want Sure-Footed then keep it. I just wanted to make sure you were aware of it.
Now I looked at your 2 Traits and I do like the concept of these two Traits as a descriptive for your character and I hope to see that woven into your fluff. However, I also found that when looking at them the person that would mostly want them would not need half the Trait so I am adjusting them to be balanced regardless of class. This is because as a player, I have always been annoyed at mechanics that when I gain something as part of class or feature but due to the character design I am now actually getting anything because the character already has that and there is no -- if you already have it then you get this clause which leaves room for negotiation also if the alternate is something the character already has as well.
Child of the Streets: Gain a +1 Trait Bonus on Legerdemain checks, and Legerdemain becomes a Class Skill. If already a Class Skill due to one's 1st-Level Class then gain a +1 Trait Bonus to Hide.
Well-Informed (Hin): Gain a +1 Trait Bonus on Knowledge[Local] checks. Gain +2 to Diplomacy checks to Gather Information. Either Knowledge[Local] or Diplomacy becomes a Class Skill. If both skills are already a Class Skill due to one's 1st-Level Class then gain +2 to Bluff checks in association with Gathering Information.
To explain the above adjustments: a Feat usually gives a +2 Bonus on 2 Skills and a Trait is basically half a Feat thus +1 for 2 Skills. Further getting a new Class Skill is at least as good as a general +1 to a Skill. Not true for every Feat nor every Trait but for the majority of them its very close. Now the specialization guidelines state that 1 Skill Point is worth 2 skill points when used to specialize in a specific aspect of a skill. Thus the narrowing of the skill to only be useable in Gathering Information increases the bonus to a +2. I hope that helps folks eyeball other things. Basically as a side-note I will be checking the balance of Feats and Traits if underpowered I will tweak them up and if truly overpowered I will tweak them down. Note some Feats/Traits are meant to be a bit overpowered because they have restricted access or they greatly improve the potential for role playing and I agree with those concepts. So if you feel a Feat/Trait you are interested in is either a bit underpowered (or a bit overpowered and want to hedge the situation) then bring it up and we can discuss it. Perhaps instead of tweaking an OP Feat/Trait down we can add flavor to it that helps it enhance roleplaying or the game in some other way.
Either you are missing your Rogue Talent, missing a Feat, or I am missing seeing it. If I am correct, I am saying it this way because with the Rogue Talent Combat Trick you could take Weapon Focus[Sling] at 2nd-level. That being said, and assuming I did not make a mistake, this means you have a rather large door open to you as you could take either a Rogue Talent or another Feat. So looking at what you have outlined here are my suggestions:
Rogue Talent
Okay I think Face in the Crowd blends will with the Child of the Streets, however, so does Fast Getaway. Then Minor Magic has numerous Cantrip options and opens up Major Magic later on both of which are now actually viable. While Coax Information means you can get by without putting points into Intimidate and instead focus on Bluff and Diplomacy. Still I see all of these being fairly useful. Then of course maybe there is a Rogue Talent or Feat that you would like that I have not suggested.
Canny Observer: +4 Bonus to Perception checks
Coax Information (Ex) (Pathfinder Unchained pg. 21): A rogue with this talent can use Bluff or Diplomacy in place of Intimidate to force an opponent to act friendly toward her. When the duration of the attitude shift ends, that opponents’ attitude toward the rogue returns to its previous level, rather than dropping one level.
Face in the Crowd: The Rogue can blend into crowds more easily than most. Opposed Perception/Sense Motive checks receive a -2 penalty when made against their Bluff, Disguise, Legerdemain, or Stealth checks if they are within 30 feet of at least two non-hostile creatures of a similar appearing creature type. This penalty increases to -4 if they are within 30 feet of at least eight such creatures or is currently in a square occupied a crowd (4 or more creatures who are no more than 10 ft from one another). There may be other advantages or disadvantages that the GM may assess the Rogue due to the specific circumstances.
Fast Getaway: As part of their Move Action they can take the Withdraw Action after making a successful Sneak Attack or Legerdemain check. They can move no more than their remaining Speed during this movement.
Fast Stealth: The Rogue can move at full speed using their Stealth skill without penalty.
Minor Magic (Sp) (Pathfinder Unchained pg. 22): Gain the ability to cast a Cantrip (0-level spell) from the Sorcerer/Wizard Spell List. This spell can be cast as a spell-like ability at will. The Caster Level is equal to their Rogue Level. The save DC for this spell is 10 + Intelligence modifier. A Rogue must have an Intelligence score of at least 10 to select this Talent.
Major Magic (Sp) (Pathfinder Unchained pg. 22): Gain the ability to cast a 1st-level spell from the Sorcerer/Wizard Spell List as a spell-like ability once per day for every 2 rogue levels possessed. The Caster Level is equal to Rogue Level. The save DC is 11 + the Intelligence modifier. They must have the Minor Magic Rogue Talent and an Intelligence score of at least 11 to select this Talent.
Rope Master (Ex): They can move at their normal speed when using a rope on a Climb check, they can take 10 when using Acrobatics to move over narrow surfaces even when in danger or distracted, and gain a +4 Bonus when determining the DC to Escape Bonds when they tie up a creature.
1st-Level Feat
All of these combat feats are solid choices depending on what path you are going for melee and/or ranged combat. Of course, if you are not concerned all that much about either then another Feat or a Rogue Talent might suit you the best.
Two-Weapon Fighting: Penalties on Attack rolls for fighting with two weapons is reduced. See chart below.
Circumstance .................... Primary .... Off-Hand
Normal Penalties .................. -6 ......... -10
Off-Hand Light Weapon ............. -4 .......... -8
Two-Weapon Fighting Feat .......... -4 .......... -4
Feat and Off-Hand Light Weapon .... -2 .......... -2
Point Blank Shot: Gain a +1 Bonus on Attack and Damage rolls with ranged weapons at ranges under 31 feet.
Precise Shot: Can use ranged weapon into melee without taking the standard –4 penalty on the attack roll. Requires Point Blank Shot.
Fast Load: Load Sling with one hand as Swift or Move Action which does not provoke AoO
Amateur Investigator: Prerequisites: Int 13, 1 rank in at least one Knowledge skill, no levels in a class that has the inspiration class feature.
Benefit: Like an Investigator, the character has the ability to augment their Knowledge, Linguistics, and Spell Craft checks. They gain a pool of inspiration equal to their Intelligence modifier. They can expend one use of this Inspiration as a Free Action to add 1d6 to the result of a Knowledge, Linguistics, or Spell Craft check, as long as they are trained in that skill (even if they take 10 or 20 on that check). They make this choice after the check is rolled and before the results of the roll are revealed. They can use Inspiration only once per skill check. Their pool of inspiration refreshes each day, typically after they get a restful night’s sleep.
Again look forward to see the fluff so that I can better tie your character into the world and the campaign.
Still kind of rough, but the crunch is pretty much done except for equipment. Let me know if I'm going in a good direction with the character or not, thanks!
Female Uriak Sorcerer
NG Medium humanoid (orc, human)
Init +5; Senses low light vision, darkvision 60'; Perception +11
DEFENSE
AC 13, touch 13, flat-footed 10 (+3 Dex)
hp (3d4+15)
Fort +5, Ref +5, Will +6
OFFENSE
Speed 30'
Melee +1; Ranged +4
STATISTICS
Str 10, Dex 16, Con 17, Int 14, Wis 15, Cha 17
Base Atk +1; CMB +1; CMD 14
FEATS/TRAITS
Feat lvl 1: Combat Casting
Bonus: Eschew Materials
Feat lvl 3: Spell Focus: Evocation
Trait 1: Unbreakable Hate (race)
Trait 2: Reactionary (combat)
Drawback: Foul Brand (face, Luthic)
Trait 3: Seeker (social)
Languages: Keolan, Orc, (+2 from int)
Favored Class Bonus: half-orc sorcerer alt; +1/2 damage to fire spells. Times taken x3 (+1)
(X) = Class Skill; 2+Int, +2 background = 6/lvl
Adventuring Skills:
()Acrobatics +3; 0 ranks, + 3 Dex, + Class, + Misc
(X)Bluff +1; 0 ranks, + 3 Cha, + Class, + -2 drawback
()Climb +0; 0 ranks, + Str, + Class, + Misc
()Diplomacy -1; 0 ranks, + 3 Cha, + Class, + -2 race -2 drawback
()Disable Device n/a; 0 ranks, + 3 Dex, + Class, + Misc
()Disguise +1; 0 ranks, + 3 Cha, + Class, + -2 drawback
()Escape Artist +3; 0 ranks, + 3 Dex, + Class, + Misc
(X)Fly n/a; 0 ranks, + (Var.), + Class, + Misc
()Heal +2; 0 ranks, + 2 Wis, + Class, + Misc
(X)Intimidate +9; 1 ranks, + 3 Cha, + 3 Class, + 2 race
(X)Knowledge (arcana) +6; 1 ranks, + 2 Int, + 3 Class, + Misc
()Knowledge (local) +3; 1 ranks, + 2 Int, + Class, + Misc
()Knowledge (nature) +3; 1 ranks, + 2 Int, + Class, + Misc
()Knowledge (planes) +0; 0 ranks, + Int, + Class, + Misc
()Knowledge (religion) +0; 0 ranks, + Int, + Class, + Misc
()Knowledge (underdark) +0; 0 ranks, + Int, + Class, + Misc
(X)Perception +11; 3 ranks, + 2 Wis, + 3 Class, + 2 race + 1 trait
()Ride +3; 0 ranks, + 3 Dex, + Class, + Misc
()Sense Motive +2; 0 ranks, + 2 Wis, + Class, + Misc
(X)Spellcraft +2; 0 ranks, + 2 Wis, + 0 Class, + Misc
()Stealth +3; 0 ranks, + 3 Dex, + Class, + Misc
(X)Survival +6; 1 ranks, + 2 Wis, + 3 Class, + Misc
()Swim +3; 3 ranks, + Str, + Class, + Misc
(X)Use Magic Device +7; 1 ranks, + 3 Cha, + 3 Class, + Misc
Background Skills:
()Animals +0; 0 ranks, + Cha, + Class, + Misc
(X)Appraise +0; 0 ranks, + Int, + Class, + Misc
(X)Craft: carpentry +6; 1 ranks, + 2 Wis, + 3 Class, + Misc
()Knowledge (engineering) +0; 0 ranks, + Int, + Class, + Misc
()Knowledge (geography) +3; 1 ranks, + 2 Int, + Class, + Misc
()Knowledge (history) +0; 0 ranks, + Int, + Class, + Misc
()Knowledge (nobility) +0; 0 ranks, + Int, + Class, + Misc
()Legerdemain +0; 0 ranks, + 3 Dex, + Class, + Misc
()Linguistics +2; 0 ranks, + 2 Int, + Class, + Misc
()Perform +3; 0 ranks, + 3 Cha, + Class, + Misc
(X)Profession: Soldier +8; 3 ranks, + 2 Int, + 3 Class, + Misc
(X)Profession: Fisher +6; 1 ranks, + 2 Int, + 3 Class, + Misc
Spells/day:
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Class: 5 - - - - - - - -
Bonus: 1 1 1
Total: 6
Spells Known (CL 3, concentration +8/+12)
1st: Keep Watch; Shield; Magic Missile (2 @ 1d4+3); Burning Hands (bloodline; DC 15, 3d4+7)
0 (at will): Ray of Frost (1d3+2); Prestidigitation; Dedect Magic; Spark; Mage Hand.
(very WIP)
Masterwork Backpack, 50gp, 10 lbs.
-Potion Mage Armor CL 1, x4 200gp
-Potion Cure Light Wounds CL 1 x4, 200gp
Masterwork Potion Belt, 5gp, 1 lb.
-Elixer of swimming, 250gp
-Potion Cure Light Wounds CL 1 x4, 200gp
-Potion Ant Haul CL 1, x2 100gp
-Potion Bull's Strength CL 3, 300gp
-Potion Remove Sickness CL 1, 50gp
-Potion Invigorate CL 1, 50gp
Total: 1405gp, 11 lbs.
Attributes: Str +2, Con +2
Size: Medium
Speed: 30ft
Senses: Low-Light Vision
Keen Senses: Gain a +2 Racial Bonus to Perception checks
Intimidating: Gain +2 Racial Bonus on Intimidation checks
Off-Putting: Receive a -2 Racial Penalty on Diplomacy checks
Orc Blood: They count as both Human and Orc for any effect related to race.
Weapon Familiarity: Gain proficiency with Bow (Short and Long), Great Axe, and Falchion. If already proficient with Martial Weapons due to their 1st-level class they gain the Feat Weapon Focus with one of these weapons. They treat any weapon with the word Orc in its name as a Martial Weapon.
Sacred Tattoo: Many half-orcs decorate themselves with tattoos, piercings, and ritual scarification, which they consider sacred markings. Half-orcs with this racial trait gain a +1 luck bonus on all saving throws. This racial trait replaces orc ferocity.
Sorcerer 3
Proficiencies: Simple weapons, no armor (+racial)
Bloodline: Orc
Bloodline Arcana: You gain the orc subtype, including darkvision 60 feet and light sensitivity. Whenever you cast a spell that deals damage, that spell deals +1 point of damage per die rolled.
Level 1 power swapped for Bloodline Mutation, Blood Havok. +1/die of damage for bloodline spells and evocation spells (currently).
Fearless (Ex): At 3rd level, you gain a +4 bonus on saving throws made against fear and a +1 natural armor bonus.
Shekla rarely says much about her upbringing; most in Dunwich only remember the scrawny teenager that wandered into town seven years ago, malnourished, dressed in ragged furs, and practically dragging a crude falchion in the dirt. She spoke broken Keolan back then and had no real education to speak of, but was willing to do odd jobs for a bit of bread or a place to sleep. Shekla was tough and knew her orcish combat drills well, but was hardly a great combatant. Armor never quite fit her right, and always made her clumsy. She was barely strong enough to lift a heavy orcish blade, much less fight with it. She may have been uriak, but it seemed her blood was thin. Her orcish bloodline, however, had run quite deep.
Among her clan, an extension of the larger Dripping Blades tribe, Shekla had been the daughter of a shaman and a prized slave. Her birth offered her no privilege; only expectations. She was hardly fit for the life of a warrior but had attended the drills regularly, even if it only earned her spite, beatings, and failure. Shekla may have been weak and scrawny, but she was tough and took what she had to... Branded with the mark of Luthic by her own mother, Shekla might have earned herself a more comfortable life if she had resigned herself to a domestic role -- but her orc blood ran deep, and a powerful range had been buried inside her.
What Shekla lacked in physical might, she made up for in magical. The first time her blood surged she set sheets of flame spewing from her hands; none were killed, but a few of her clanmates were hurt. Some thought she was a curse, too dangerous to let live; others a blessing, a sign from gods themselves. Shekla didn’t wait around to find out what her kin would decide; she ran.
Now, Shekla lives in Dunwich, a regular fixture among the village. By night she keeps watch over the road and the village, and by day she sleeps, drinks, and does odd jobs here and there. She has done her time as a fisher, and even taken on a few bounties, caravan jobs, and other well-paying adventures. Hardly rich, Shekla lives modestly and most of the locals know what she’s capable of; nonetheless, she tries not to wield her magic around outsiders.
Shekla has gray-hued skin and dark eyes, with short tusks and stringy, black hair. Her skin is marked with tattoos and riddled with scars and piercings, with an orcish rune branded on her cheek -- “home,” to any who can read it, but also the holy symbol of the goddess Luthic for those educated in orc religion. She would be of average build for a human, perhaps even athletic; but for an Uriak, she is quite scrawny. Though she carries a falchion she wears no armor, favoring loose shirts and breeches, often adorned with her pack and potion belt. When she speaks, Shekla’s voice is typically a dry rasp.
Shekla might seem quiet and unassuming at first blush; but when her orc blood boils she develops a clear sense of presence that can catch people off-guard.
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DeJoker - Thank you for that very in-depth analysis of my submission. It is nice to see a DM take such interest in the character of a potential player. Many of your suggestions are great, and I will go back over my character and see how they fit my idea of Cade. I had thought as a rogue talent I had chosen Finesse Rogue, but I might have thought I did and never actually picked it!!
I will hopefully have time this weekend to get the fluff up so you can get a better picture of Cade and how I intend to present him.
Again thank you for giving my submission such thoughtful and thorough attention.
Daniel
Daniel (and all the rest of you for that matter) you will find that I take helping my players create enjoyable and 3-D characters assuming the player wants to create that 3rd dimension for their character which is a dimension you cannot actually create without a GMs feedback and input.
Oh and I forgot to mention this to you, however I do think I stated that I really do not want characters that are not of a heroic bend which usually means Alignments of LG, NG, CG, or LN. That being said I can easily see Cade being LN and all you need to do is decide what the code that he chooses to live by that makes him a heroic rogue, even if that means he is reluctant one.
With said I while I was working on the next character something hit me about Cade that I thought might be interesting but I need to find out if this is something you might be interested in so I will give you a rough idea and we can go from there -- either pitch it completely, use some of it, or use all of it -- which will be totally up to you. Note your rejection of this suggestion will not offend me as I am trying to get a better feel for the character you want to play. So with said here is the idea.
Cade is an ex-Child of the Streets and is Well-Informed but what does this mean now that he is grown a bit older and why did it begin such. Hin are not often orphaned, and definitely not orphaned the way Cade was orphaned. The last he remembers is he was on a boat with his extended family and was awakened by a lot of noise and screaming when a strange woman wearing plumed feathered mask and feathered cloak appeared before him and held out her hand. He had sense that he should take her hand and he did. He felt at peace, and he remembers hearing, although as he thinks back upon this he is not sure he actually heard it, "bring kindness to those in need, create peaceful relations with neighbors, and find them." He then awoke in Dunwich with nothing but his wits and a sense that he had been called to do something, he has always felt it would be something grand but truth be told that has been mostly wishful thinking on his part. However, he followed what he was told although it was not easy being a small child in a village of outcasts and simple folk, however, he learned quickly to use his size to his favor and managed to survive and slowly establish himself. He made many friends of other orphaned children helping them to survive and pilfering from those who had plenty to help those who did not. As Cade searched for his family he began to notice things, folks would mysteriously disappear but never anyone that would be greatly missed. Further there were rumors and stories of strange beings living out in the marshes and prowling the shores. Creatures that go unnoticed due to the nearly perpetual fog that hung over the region. Fog that he had used more than once to move unnoticed when necessary. Of course, there was that "voice" which he could not seem to forget and the instructions he had been given. He was beginning to wonder if had understood those instructions correctly. Sure at first those in need, neighbors, and them -- seemed fairly simple but as things progressed he was not so sure. As he pursued mysteries, he seemed to being peeling back one layer only to discover another with even more mysteries. Then after several minor layers that only brought more questions, he could not help but think those terms might not be as simple as he had initially thought. Then of course, who had that she been, or were they not even really a she and why him? Just more mysteries to find the truths to.
Okay that was a quick draft of an idea I had, so look it over and let me know what you think and if you like any of it and if you like to make alterations to it such as maybe you have a sibling or two or just anything you feel will help breathe more life into your character.
Shekla I glanced at your character and I see some great potential for a bit of spicey dicey if you might be interested in such a thing and are willing to trust me with playing a bit with a few aspects of what you have outlined. Basically keeping what you have but perhaps reskinning and tweaking a few elements to create a bit more mystery and bit of the weird.
Of course as always, it is your character in the end so what I present would be suggestions always subject to compromise and adjusting to make sure it something you will have fun with.
To help you all know where I am at -- I am currently working on my first pass with Travoril and then Lars would be next followed by Shekla.
Then once the first pass has been completed I will be going back through and doing a second pass to see more might be acheived.
Also Shekla and Cade do you think you two might know each other considering your backgrounds? You two might want to consider this.
I say this because I prefer to give everyone a legitimate reason to at least trust one other person within a group. Aka A is B's sibling and B knows C who knows D, etc...
I'm interested to hear what you're thinking, and making a shared background with other PC's.