| Mauril |
With a paladin, good-aligned cleric and fighter who wields a holy greatsword, I want to make sure what the RAW says regarding "evil outsider".
I plan to use a fallen solar in an upcoming encounter. I have run fallen celestials before, and have confirmed (from a developer, no less) that fallen celestials keep their (good) subtype even if their personal alignment becomes neutral or evil. However, does this make them count as "evil outsiders" for the purpose of smite, holy weapons or alignment channel?
darth_gator
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The short answer is, "No".
Outsiders are only Evil Outsiders if they have the (evil) subtype. If you have some sort of fallen celestial with an evil alignment, they are still, technically, (good) outsiders.
From Bestiary Pg 312 regarding the Good Subtype: "...if their alignments change, they still retain the subtype. Any effect that depends on alignment affects a creature with this subtype as if the creature has a good alignment, no matter what its alignment actually is." (Emphasis mine.)
EDIT: Additionally, the section in the Bestiary regarding the Evil Subtype says the exact same thing, simply reversing the words "good" and "evil".
Clear enough?
Ascalaphus
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Related question:
If a wizard summons an animal with Summon Monster, he gets to apply a planar template to it. Let's say we have a True Neutral wizard who summons a Celestial Dog. Now as I understand it,
* The Celestial Dog's alignment is True Neutral, because it becomes exactly the same as the wizard's.
* The CD doesn't get the [good] subtype, because the template doesn't mention it.
* The CD does have the Smite Evil ability.
* The CD wouldn't be affected by Protection from Good, because it's not Good and it also doesn't have the [good] subtype.
Am I right so far?
Now, suppose I were to house rule that the Celestial template also includes the [good] subtype. Would the CD be affected by Protection from Good now?
And suppose a Good wizard summoned a CD, but with no house rules. The CD is Good but not [good]. Is it affected by Protection from Evil?
darth_gator
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Aside from "dog" not being on the list of available creatures for Summon Monster I-IX, you seem to have most of your ducks in a row.
1. Alignment matches caster.
2. Good casters apply the Celestial template, Evil apply the Fiendish, and Neutral apply which ever they choose.
3. A Celestial/Fiendish ANYTHING summoned by a TN caster will be unaffected by ANY of the Protection from X spells.
4. The Celestial template applies the Smite Evil special attack, regardless of the creature's actual alignment. That holds true for all creatures summoned or not. It is, theoretically, possible to have a CE Celestial Orca that can smite evil.
5. Your house rule would work as you say.
6. The CD in your last point would be affected by Protection from Good...not Evil, but I assume that's just a typo.