Wrath of the Righteous for Paladins

Game Master trawets71

The way I read Trap Taker it allows anyone with UMD to try and disable a magical trap. I think most people forget Trapfinding isn't the only way to disable traps. Dispel Magic works as well. Detect magic may find one as well as perception. How to go about it depends on the particulars of the trap.

And your reading is the one that matters. So that choice is made.

I think Assured Skill for the skill monkey paladin might be a good choice. Almost guaranteed to waste a mythic point because both rolls will be trash or twenties.

So then the question I need to answer is what regular feats to take to tee up the best mythic feats. I have received some suggestions, off to peruse.

And now the pressure is on to create a backstory that does not disappoint. I’m leaning toward one that has an elven ancestry - perhaps I am sent to meet and aid a distant cousin in the Worldwound. Care to entertain the idea of a black sheep in the family, Ardriel? Complete with ram’s horns?

Enos Flamebrother, redeemed follower of the Dawnflower, at your service and ready for your reviews - please be gentle.

I have a backstory sketched out, but don't know yet how He came to be in the Worldwound or specifically where the rest of the party is located.

I'm still debating his appearance and so his avatar is in flux. He is clearly of elven descent. Elven and something else...

I'm going to try and keep my suggestions to building to the rules. This is a core game so nothing from the APG. That being said I am allowing racial specific things and role/path specific things. So if you found something that made you better at being stealthy or disabling things I would review it and give you a yes or no.

You might consider some armor too :) You have WBL which is 33,000 gp.

Sorry, I thought I disabled APG as an option. So Hero's Defiance is out as a spell And Bodyguard is not an acceptable feat.

I'll worry about the spell later. Suggestions for a different feat, anyone? What I can get that would help others' defenses?

I didn't know if you had limitation to available gear. I know it's always a bit unfair to existing characters when someone comes in and cherry-picks the cool gear because they have the crazy budget.

Perhaps Step Up? It is Core, it can be useful, and we face a fair number of casters and archers.

Or maybe Combat Expertise and Improved Disarm? Lots of the demons we have fought are weapon-users.

Really depends on your weapon and build. But I’ll echo Leothar here. Using combat maneuvers would make your Paladin really stand out and would feel very trickster. Improved disarm and/or improved trip? Useful to have. I know that my Paladin would shudder when facing someone like that.

Oh, the decisions!

Right now, I have

Combat Reflexes with hopes to go to Combat Reflexes (Mythic)
Skill Focus (UMD) to maximize my Trap Taker
Step Up (Leothar's suggestion)
Weapon Finesse and Weapon Finesse (Mythic)

I could switch it to

Combat Expertise
Improved Disarm and Improved Disarm (Mythic)
Skill Focus (UMD) to maximize my Trap Taker
Weapon Finesse

What do you folks think of that combination? Should I just drop Weapon Finesse and not focus on combat at all? Skill Focus (Disable Device) is in my plans and if I'm all defense and movement, Dodge and Mobility and Nimble Moves and Fleet all have merit, too.

Well...mythic weapon finesse isn't worth it by itself. By that, let's look at this.

Scruffy has a 1d4 dagger. Str10 dex18. It goes to 1d4+4. Yes, it's a big jump of 0->4. But when enemies have 200+ HP, that isn't going to do much. So if you aren't planning on using the attack action...I'd recommend the second.

Lvl 1 (weapon finesse to use dex for your CMB with a finesse weapon) lvl 3 (combat expertise) lvl 5 (mythic improved disarm) lvl 7 (extra traits)

Traits: chance encounter (campaign), criminal (social), dangerously curious (magic) underlying principles (faith...if your paladin worships Nethys) or arcane archivist (to be from the pathfinder society)

Rather than getting +3 UMD from the feat, you instead get +4 from underlying principles (+1 trait and class skill) and +4 from dangerously curious (Int instead of Cha). Total of +8 UMD right off the bat!

That, and Nethys as a patron could fit him pretty well, given his high intelligence. Being a member of the PFS could also be a cool plot hook as to what brought the paladin to the world wound. Where it isn't just closing it, but also keeping an eye out for lost relics and history. Again, a nice tie in for a high Int character.

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And at lvl 9? Maybe take improved trip? Hold a whip to get an extra +2 to disarm and trip. Opens you up for the mythic ability "Down Like Dominoes"

Anyways just an idea. :)

Nethys doesn't have paladins. Good has to be LG, NG or LN.

I worry that not doing damage is going to make you feel left out during fights. I could be wrong.

Paladins have a big static bonus to damage in the form of Smite, so TWF could make sense with such a high Dex. TWF kukris into a Critical Focus build could be pretty potent.

Dangerously Curious is not Int-to-UMD but is "+1 and class skill", same as the Nethys trait. Rather, Clever Wordplay is Int-to-Cha-skill. Tortured Crusader already has UMD as a class skill.

If you have Clever Wordplay, that is +8 ranks, +3 Int, +3 Class Skill = +14, which is still a bit low considering that magic traps are DC 25+spell level. So you'd be looking for Competence bonuses (Guidance at the very least), Morale (Heroism), Luck, and maybe that Skill Focus.

You might go with Skill Focus (UMD), Weapon Finesse, TWF, ITWF for now; then Improved Critical at 9, Critical Focus at 11, and Staggering Critical at 13. Just an idea. Staggering Critical is amazing for reducing the damage the party takes and it is Core.

And now the pressure is on to create a backstory that does not disappoint. I’m leaning toward one that has an elven ancestry - perhaps I am sent to meet and aid a distant cousin in the Worldwound. Care to entertain the idea of a black sheep in the family, Ardriel? Complete with ram’s horns?

Hi, sorry, really busy weekend. Ardriel actually lived in Kenabres from the time when he was a wee elf at the age of 19, throughout all of the Mendevian Crusades. He would have no idea about any cousin who was a black sheep in the family - especially one with literal ram's horns. I'm open to that being your reason for coming to the Worldwound.

For feats, let's take a step back. There are a LOT of options, even when you limit it to just Core. Here's what I can tell you about damage dealing: I am an archer paladin, but when I'm not smiting, I am feeling a lot less effective than Dadna and Leothar. That's because I haven't invested heavily in the archery feats, outside of Point Blank Shot/Precise Shot. That is largely because I've been using my feats to invest in abilities that let me do more to fulfill a role as the Archmage. I would make sure that you have made a sufficient investment in being able to deal damage, or have a way to contribute more battlefield control/active support if not.

Rather than start with the feats, let's start with the weapon. What weapon were you thinking about using?

EDIT: Unrelated, I just noticed that I forgot to level up to 8, apparently. Scuse me while I fix that.

EDIT 2: Yeah, did the Level Up work, and then forgot to actually make the changes to my character sheet. That's fixed now.

What is interesting about this campaign, is that it is Core + Race + Mythic Path. That is, if I was optimizing Dadna, she'd have Furious Focus. I can't do that, though. Because Furious Focus isn't core, and it doesn't directly fit into being a dwarven aasimar, or a hierophant.

So, when planning things out, what I recommend is this. List out the feats and write in why it fits the character. For example...

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Human Virtuous Bravo Trickster Paladin. Comes from a powerful family in Mendev. Came to fight in the world wound because he is the third son in the family and wants to make a name for himself given that his older brothers stand to inherit the vast majority of the wealth and powerful available.

Feats:
Class: Weapon Finesse (free)
Human: Noble Scion (not core, but shows that he is a nobleman)
Lvl 1: Noble Stipend or Enlightened Noble (not core, but further leans into the nobleman aspect. I'd probably choose stipend, purely for the RP of it)
Lvl 3: Weapon Focus Rapier (core)
Lvl 5: Fencing Grace (not core, but represents his lifetime of training in the noble art of dueling)
Lvl 7: Power Attack (core, mythic)
Then at lvl 9 go down the improved critical path. Or grab leadership to get a cadre of followers to tend to him between battles)

Equipment: Parade Armor (bearing the colors of his noble house), legendary item rapier (family heirloom), buckler.

It's fairly optimized (lvl to damage from virtuous bravo, dex to hit and damage from feats, focuses on crits with a high crit range weapon, no mythic weapon finesse needed which makes room for mythic power attack. Would do more than enough damage to keep up with two-handed paladins). 3/5 feats chosen are not core, but they all directly tie into the character's background. Therefore, they are likely to be allowed...or if not, then our GM is a reasonable person and I'm sure he'd work to find something else that is.

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So, for your character, I recommend that you figure out exactly who Enos is, where he is from, and how he fights. Then when choosing feats, list them out and write to yourself (and the GM) why you think that they fit his character and/or mythic path.

EDIT: Saw the post above. If Ardriel is cool with Enos being the blacksheep of the family, then it would certainly make for interesting dynamics. Plus it is kind of cool: Elf + Elven Tiefling. Dwarf + Dwarven Aasimar. And a human knight in shining armor, as is mandatory for a group of paladins. :)

As a player, I’m not concerned about weaponry. I’ve always been intrigued by the elven curved blade as a weapon. I was very interested in the twin kukris when I saw Fley’s build. And my default with the elf character has always been a longbow. I’m happy with any of them or none of them - seeing you four handle tough battles without a fifth character and knowing there’s a desire for a skill monkey, I am perfectly accepting of the less-fighting role. Currently, I’m considering all of the weapons above, just to have options, but focusing on the kukris because I have a weak spot for TWF.

As for who he is, that’s coming together nicely, but I don’t want to post it here while it’s in flux.

Thanks for the input, everyone.

Does anyone else have any questions or things they want to do?

good to go.

Apologies for the delay. I got to run my first in-person game in a very long time for friends at work and spent far too much time getting ready. I think Enos’ crunch has been determined, but that backstory is still vague and wispy in my mind. I need to give it some time to nurture it and see what it grows into.

On my end I’m good to go

Good here. I figured we were just waiting for Enos to be ready so he could join us.

I think we're about ready, as long as Enos is ready.

This was a good time for interacting with the NPCs and asking questions as well. That is what I was waiting on mostly.

Sorry, I'm working on a rather tedious and lengthy project at work that's frying my brain. Apart from "find the Sword of Valor", I'm not sure what questions need to be asked.

How detailed does the gear purchase need to be? Are we accounting for food and water or is that provided by those sending us on these missions?

How detailed does the gear purchase need to be? Are we accounting for food and water or is that provided by those sending us on these missions?

The current draft of Enos has been added to the top of his profile. I'm short on time, so I did not try to clean up the profile yet and I won't try to summarize the changes here until later. If you have time and inclination, have at it. If not, believe me, I understand.

Enos' character sheet is basically done. The status bar will come later. I'm sure he's not optimized terribly well, but hopefully he will contribute to the party - and survive for a bit.

I'll get a post up later today but I want to spend some time reading through earlier posts of loot to see what our resources are - I am not sure the tracker is up to date.

Can we make Knowledge checks to ID monsters just from hearing their names? OOC, I know that spectres would be incredibly dangerous for our party, as our Mythic abilities add no sort of defenses against them and our all-paladin party lacks spells such as Death Ward and Restoration (which a Cleric would have at level 7). IC, I'm not sure what I would know.

Aha! We found Ghost Touch Full Plate!

That would come in handy against the Spectres. Who wants to wear it? Ian? Dadna?

Still a lot of posts to go through for gear. There's a lot of updating to do. But that was a good find.

And Ardriel has Ghost Salt arrows. We may not be quite as hosed as I thought.

If he named a creature you can make knowledge checks.

I didn't remember the Ghost Touch Full Plate do we know if it was + 1? Any chance Leothar would like it so Ian can use the Iomedae mithril armor?

I didn't remember the Ghost Touch Full Plate do we know if it was + 1? Any chance Leothar would like it so Ian can use the Iomedae mithril armor?

If it has Ghost Touch on it, then it's +1 at minimum, per the rules on Magic Armor.

There are some Paladin spells that might also help. However, they aren't Core, so it would be up to the GM if they were okay:

Light of Iomedae (for Ian specifically) - Inner Sea Magic
Life Shield - Undead Slayer's Handbook
Veil of Positive Energy - Advanced Player's Guide
Positive Pulse - Planar Adventures

Protection from Evil in general would be helpful for all of us to have up.

Since we are in camp, we can ask NPCs what they know about various creatures, too, and we might be able to get some holy water.

I didn't remember the Ghost Touch Full Plate do we know if it was + 1? Any chance Leothar would like it so Ian can use the Iomedae mithril armor?

Leothar would be fine with that.

Light of Iomedae (for Ian specifically) - Inner Sea Magic

Ian Passeri wrote:

I didn't remember the Ghost Touch Full Plate do we know if it was + 1? Any chance Leothar would like it so Ian can use the Iomedae mithril armor?

Leothar would be fine with that.

If that works let's sort it out in game at some point in time.

Before involving NPCs I would prefer the party try to identify the creatures.

The loot sheet was last updated with the gear from September 22, 2021. So we have about two years to catch up on. I have read through and added the following to the loot tracker (plus some coin and mundane gear):

Wand of Blindness/Deafness (8) (Ardriel)
+3 Spiked Full Plate (Dadna)
+1 Returning Throwing Axe (Ian)
Amulet of Natural Armor +2 (Ian)
Belt of Mighty Constitution +4 (Leothar)
Headband of Alluring Charisma +2 (Ian)
Wand of Silence (8) (Ardriel)
+2 Fire Resistance Banded Mail (to sell)
+1 Heavy Steel Shield (Leothar)
+1 Spell Storing Light Hammer (Ardriel)
Blessed Book
Efficient Quiver
Earth Elemental Gem
Potion of Lesser Restoration
Scroll of Dimension Door
Scroll of Move Earth
+1 Ghost Touch Full Plate (now going to Leothar)
Javelins of Lightning (2)
+1 Magical Beast Bane Arrows (19)
? Bag
? Grease
? Crossbow
Potion of CMW
Potion of Divine Favor
Potion of Shield of Faith
Elixir of Hiding
Adamantine Battleaxe
50 +1 Arrows
Arrow of Human Slaying
+2 Breastplate
+1 Keen Longsword
+2 Elven Chain
Armor of the Pious (was Leothar, going to Ardriel)
Potion of Blur
Potion of Darkness
Potion of Darkvision
Scroll of Restoration
Scroll of Inflict Serious Wounds
+1 Greataxe
Belt of Giant Strength +2

Of note, I don't think anyone claimed the Belt of Giant Strength +2 from the Ghast Antipaladin. There's a lot of other useful stuff as well.

Having claimed the amulet and axe if someone else wants the headband they can have it.

Armor of the Pious (was Leothar, going to Ardriel)

Is that a type-o or did Ardriel have a previous claim on the armor?

Thanks for taking the time to go through all of this! I think that the +2 elven chainmail would be great for Ardriel. For one, it is elven, so that's cool. For the other, he currently has a +1 mithril chain shirt (+5 AC, +6 max dex). The +2 elven chainmail is +8 AC, +4 max dex. Given that he has Dex18, it would be a nice upgrade of +3 AC.

Typo. I already have the +2 elven chainmail - I thought I already factored into my AC already.

I have no claim on anything, but I would accept any archery items that Ardriel doesn't want. Efficient quiver, +1 arrows...

And Ardriel should totally be carrying the arrow of human slaying.

That may be more tactical planning than Leothar usually does.

I think the AP expects us to grind our way through the Citadel, but from an IC point of view we really should get to stop the ritual and recover the Sword. But it does carry considerable risk. If we all keep 1 or 2 Mythic Points in reserve we should be able to make our way out if we need to. Racking up a lot of negative levels from the undead would be the biggest worry, because then the Nabasu could finish one of us off with an Enervation.

So, yes, fighting spectres, vampires, vampire spawn, and a Nabasu all in one day is extremely risky. I will double-check if we actually have that Scroll of Restoration; I think it may have been used.

I actually should have already had all of those, as well, except for one lightning javelin I gave...Ian? Leothar? One of the two.

I'll grab the scroll of dimension door and scroll of move earth, too.

Could we ask Aravashnial to identify the bag, crossbow, and grease, since I already tried to identify them and failed?

EDIT: Can we ask NPCs about casting some long-running spells on us? If Sosiel is high enough level to cast Death Ward, for instance, that could help protect at least one of us from getting level drained. Even Hide from Undead might allow us to get in and get the drop on at least one encounter.

Alternatively, are there any scrolls we can get?

Regardless, everyone should have Protection from Evil prepped, and we should all cast it on ourselves before we go down into the dungeons.

Dadna Spells
* Mythic Endure Elements (cast now: 24 hour duration)
* Corruption Resistance Against Evil (cast when we enter dungeons: 80 minute duration)
* Veil of Heaven (cast when we enter dungeons: 80 minute duration)
* Protection From Evil (cast when we enter dungeons: 8 minute duration)
* Eagle's Splendor (cast when we enter dungeons: 8 minute duration)

All spell slots thus will be used.

Ian doesn't have spells, just the bonuses from the archetypes, most of which, when used, need his allies to stay close. So happy to take recomendations if and when their needed.

Ok, from the list above Ian will keep the Amulet of Natural Armor +2, Headband of Alluring Charisma +2, Armor of the Pious, and the Belt of Giant Strength +2.

Not using ranged weapons that much, he will return the + 1 returning throwing axe and his + 1 plate armor to be sold for the group or used by someone else.

bag of holding (type III) containing a small library of rare books that grant a +4 bonus on Knowledge (planes) checks when they are referenced, +1 flaming heavy crossbow, dose of silversheen.

Aravashniel can cast mage armor for someone (6 hours). Sosiel can cast protection from energy.

Oh, that returning handaxe sounds intriguing!

I will be mobile only until January 2. I will keep up as best I can.

Merry Christmas everyone!

Yes, Merry Christmas everyone, I hope you get to spend it with someone you love.

I hope the boys are doing well and have a good holiday.

Merry Christmas!

Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, and Joyful whatever applies to you, to everyone. :)

My posting may be slow for a couple of days, I still intend to check the boards a couple of times a day, but I'm not living at the computer. Don't wait for me to make the decisions and if we get in combat bot me if needed.

Both my wife and mom have come down with covid. My mom (86) was almost unresponsive so we called the squad, she's at the hospital. I'll end up being there a bit and taking care of my wife, thus not at the computer as much as usual and I hate posting on my phone.

Sorry to hear that. I pray they both get better soon.

I'm with you on the phone. I'll read on there but I can't stand posting.

Prayers for speedy and complete recovery for both of them.