Wrath of the Righteous for Paladins

Game Master trawets71

Double move won't get you to the edge of the fog with a 20' move speed. You used your Prot from evil sla today before coming into the citadel.

…alright…forget any spells. Just run so she can get there next turn. Don’t think she can do a swift action after a full action so use a mythic point for the lay on hands.

You can do a swift, move and standard each round unless you used an immediate action. Move and standard are turned into a full round action so that leaves a swift.

So...we're not running?

Cause I thought the plan was running.

I figured Ian could hold them off so you two could escape and get Leothar. A Paladin sacrificing himself for his friends, who he see's as more effective than himself, seemed like a good idea at the time.

But that plan requires other paladins to accept the sacrifice, when they are still able to fight. Leothar is...gone. Due to that spell, he isn't coming back anytime soon. IC we have no idea where he is.

And when it comes to what we know...Dadna is back on her feet. She is at 82/89 HP, has 2x smites, plenty of healing...and she knows that her friend and comrade needs her help. That would be a pretty horrible paladin to run away. Likewise, Ardriel is at 52/57 HP, has his bow, and plenty of arrows.

So yeah. The plan was to run, if every one of us runs. But if one of us stays behind, then all of us have to fight.

Now...if this was an all rogue party? I think that would be a very different story. ;)

(Also I really want to see what Dadna can do with 2x vital strike smite attacks...)

If we're all going to stay and fight, then I'll use my next standard action to dismiss the fog cloud - cause my bow is useless if it's still up. I just want to know if that's the plan, cause apparently all 3 of us were on different pages.

We had decided we would stay and fight. When Dadna went down the NPC said to retreat. I was fine with Adriel retreating to get Dadna to safety and Ian making sure you all got away. Obviously Dadna doesn't like that idea...

Nope! Dadna certainly doesn’t. :)

Okay, then. I'll dismiss the obscuring mist.

If Ardriel goes first dismissing the spell, can Dadna still take her turn as originally planned and rolled?

Probably not. The Dice have already fallen. But even with Ian down, Staunton was at 55 wounds. Dadna’s first hit puts him at 119 and the second at 183. I can’t imagine that he’d still be up.

This leaves us with 2 Minotaurs, one of which is wounded. Adriel can full attack the wounded one.

Let’s just hope we can drop Staunton and a Minotaur this round. If so, we’ll be in decent shape.

…maybe. The Minotaurs have +9 to hit. Dadna has AC23 now that she is fully buffed. So they need a 14 to hit her. Yet 1 hit can take her out. So…maybe. This is really touch and go. I really wish they were evil outsiders so that it would be AC25. They’re so inconsiderate to be mortals, right?

I am pretty sure there was Smite Good damage against Dadna, so Corruption Resistance should help and she might not be quite so low on HP.

Whelp, I hit once. Good luck to Dadna.

Good luck indeed. She is alive! Finish them off, if you would. They still hit hard enough to make this less than pleasant.

I was thinking about the suggestion issue. And my conclusion is that, while the spell was fair game, the problem was that it took Leothar out of the game for so long. I’ve seen players drop from campaigns for less, and it’s a credit to Aldizog that he remained active through the month. I think, should this come up again, suggestions such as “you don’t need a weapon to fight someone as weak as me” are better. While not as “good” from the enemy’s point of view, it gives the player something to do. Grapple, Trip, spells, healing…it leaves them in the game. Anyways, that’s just my two cents.

I don't disagree with you about that Dadna. I will have to give that more thought in the future. The AP specifically says he starts out with suggestion to leave and blindness spells which is what I went with.

If you have read any of the AP you will know that it gives specifics of how the bad guys act. I'm going to tell you what the general rule is because it doesn't apply to you. Target obvious divine characters first, don't cast spells with saving throws on paladins. There may come a point where it is possible or even likely for you to fail a save but for the most part currently the dcs are too low for that.

I am going to make a new rule which for the most part won't make a huge change on your part because you don't do much casting.

When you use a spell with a save, roll the victims saving throws so we are not waiting for things to be seen. That being said please make sure your saves are correct in your headers. If you don't know your victims save bonus' just make the rolls. If the roll beats your dc you'll know what happened. If it is something you have faced before feel free to look it up if you want especially if you have faced multiple encounters with them; dretches, brimorks etc. I don't expect you to know the first time you encounter something or a unique creature.

I am trying to speed things up some and build some momentum. I should have been running Leothar alongside the battles even though he probably didn't reach camp until the battles were over.

It may also be a good idea to include what buffs are up in your posts and count them down.

You search the body and Ariel and Aravashnial spend time identifying the magical items. You find a wand of blindness/deafness (8), +3 spiked full plate (symbol of Deskari on the helmet), +1 returning throwing axe, amulet of natural armor +2, belt of mighty constitution +4,

headband of alluring charisma +2, and his glaive, Soulshear. You found a nonmagical key as well as 68 gp.

Joran had a wand of silence (8), +2 fire resistance banded mail, +1 heavy steel shield, +1 spell storing light hammer and 9 gp.

You were gone less than 2 hours total and have a most of a day before bedding down for the night.

Dadna called the armor, can Ian give someone his + 1 amulet for the + 2, he would also use the headband and the throwing axe if no one else wnts it.

Lots of loot dropped…seems like we should cleanse or destroy Soulshear. It sounds like bad news.

Alright...here is how I would personally advise the loot distrubtion.

Dadna: +3 Spiked Full Plate and Ian's Amulet of Natural Armor (AC 21->24)
Ian: +2 Amulet (AC 26->27)
Leothar: Get's Dadna's +1 Full Plate and the +1 Heavy Shield (AC 22->25)
Ardriel: Wand of blindness/deafness and Wand of Silence (He is the only one who can use them), +1 Spell Storing Light Hammer (While he doesn't really fight in close combat, this gives him a backup magic weapon and as an archer his close combat weapon will be useful as it is spell storing)

This leaves the Belt of Mighty Constitution +4, Headband of Alluring Charisma +2, +1 returning throwing axe, and +2 fire resistance banded mail.

Now...if it was up to me? I'd give Leothar the Belt. Str18 and Con18...feels quite dwarven to be able to soak up some damage. And then Ian gets the axe, giving him a ranged option.

Finally, we sell the +2 fire resistance banded mail. It's worth *alot* of gold, has worse AC than regular plate armor, and she gives the party fire resistance. By selling it, we can afford to get the rest of the party Headbands of Alluring Charisma +2, or to push up our AC abit more.

So we go back in. Ian has AC27, making him a really good tank. Leothar has AC25 and Con18, putting him in the same ballpark. Dadna can have reach, and has AC24 and Con14, meaning that she'd a good back line. Finally Ardriel has AC23, and makes out with some great caster items.

---------

Anyways, that would be the way I'd split the loot.

great ideas Dadna, I'm good with all of it.

more headbands or AC works. As for the present headband Ian would only use it to bump saves, if it will help anyone with their spell DC please take it.

Glad you like it. :)

GM…can we “sell” the armor of fire resist to the army and “buy” items from army supplies? That could help us as we head back into the fortress.

Also I’ll get a gameplay post about time in camp up today or tomorrow

Leothar has this magic armor already:

Armor of the Pious: This gold-plated +1 mithral full plate armor has images of Iomedae’s symbol etched into its immaculately gleaming surface. The armor requires 24 hours to attune itself to the wearer and her patron deity, after which point the images on the armor shift to match the symbol of the wearer’s patron deity (or remain associated with Iomedae if the wearer doesn’t worship a deity). Thereafter, once per day the armor’s wearer can offer a prayer to her deity (or Iomedae) as a swift action to increase the armor’s enhancement bonus to +2 for 10 rounds. For this duration, the armor also grants a +2 sacred bonus on saving throws. A paladin wearing armor of the pious can use her lay on hands ability one additional time per day; a mythic paladin wearing armor of the pious also gains one additional use of mythic power per day.

So he doesn't need Dadna's old armor.

Sorry, I've been on Thanksgiving travel, will catch up more this weekend.

Oh! Didn’t see that. Really awesome armor. And enjoy thanksgiving!

+2 Cha is really good for a paladin. More uses of Lay on Hands, bigger bonus to Smite Evil and Divine Grace, and (in some cases) more spells/day. I think any of use could use the headband.

I don't mind taking the Belt of +4 Con as recommended. As to the Heavy Shield, well, it would drop my damage quite a bit but improve my AC. For a paladin of Torag, prioritizing defense seems right. And Mythic does a ton to boost offense but, as we have seen, not much on defense.

Given that Leothar has Mithral Full Plate now, he will look to boost his Dex at some point. That should help AC even more. 24 is not great for an 8th-level PC, but it's at least into "barely adequate" range.

There is currently no place in Drezen to buy and sell gear.

I have also put a picture of Staunton's armor in the map area for you to see it. It all looks very insecty.

Dadna spends the day trying to remove the mark of Deskari but doesn't make much progress.

This is masterwork armor and will take a proper forge to fully change. Helmets are often replaced on suits of armor. Just look at all the magical helmets. As for the armor itself there is no real game issues with it, but ya know it kinda has the stink of demons and evil on it. There might be something else that could be done or others you could ask.

PS: I hate to keep saying "no" when you come up with cool things and posts.

Could you perhaps give me some pointers as towards what you are looking for?

Gave it some thought overnight.

(1) How to go about removing the rune of deskari from the helmet? Adamantine axe blade ignores up to hardness 20. Can it be used to do so? If so, how long would it take?
(2) For carving her prayers onto the armor, what sort of tools does she need? The idea was for this to become a nightly ritual for her, something she can do before going to sleep whenever she has time. If this needs a full forge, then that wouldn't quite work. Would masterwork smith tools be enough for this? How about buying an any-tool for 250 gold?
(3) The 'stink of demons and evil.' How to get rid of this? Would anointing it with holy water work?

Right now, for this flavor, the price tag is 250 gold (any-tool) and 25 gold (holy water) for a total of 275 gold. But the any-tool remains useful as it can be used for other purposes.

(4) My long-term plan was to eventually upgrade the armor to +3 Defiant Armor (+2 AC and DR 2/- against evil outsiders). This would be represented, not by enchanting it, but by Dadna finally 'finishing' all of the runes, prayers, and holy symbols. Then she would take the time to add the gold inlay and gems. That extreme cost (7000 gold) would be all of the materials that were being used, and the time for enchanting it would be her own time putting it all together. And the actual enchantment? A blessing from the Gods, rewarding her faith by divine protection. So that the armor truly becomes 'holy' and a symbol of faith protecting her against the attacks of evil outsiders. If allowed, when this happens, she could perhaps incorporate a holy symbol into it, making it a focus for spellcasting when worn.

(5) I was also thinking, if I have the funds, to add the 'comfort' enchantment onto it, and 'glamered.' Only with the self-imposed restriction that the armor can only take 2 forms. Spiked full plate when in combat, and ornate robes when not in combat. Again, showing that the armor truly becomes holy.

------------------

To see if we can be on the same page here. After the siege, Dadna spends 275 gold for an any-tool and 25 gold for holy water. The holy water, along with some prayers, washes away the smell of evil and demons. The any-tool allows her to make her own modifications. I then save up the gold required to upgrade the armor. Dadna still needs a ring of protection, and if allowed, a ring of force shield. That would get her AC up to decent levels (AC 27 for 10,500 gold). And from there I'd likely save up for her weapon to make it Holy (12,000 gold). Given that these expenses are 22,500 gold, and that she'd need another 7000 for the armor, it will be quite awhile before she can upgrade her armor. That length of time (I'm assuming, given how this AP is pretty sparse, lvl 10, probably lvl 11), that it would be more than enough time to realistically do all of those carvings.

So all in all...it takes time and resources. But the payoff is that she will, as a high level mythic paladin, have a weapon which is: Dorn-Dergar +1 Evil Outsider Bane / Holy / glamered (maybe: taking a religious-ish form outside of combat), and Spiked Full Plate +3 Defiant Evil Outsider/Glamered/Comfort.

Lots of levels. Lots of effort. But true paladin gear, both in and out of combat.

1. Your a using and axe blade that is more likely to take a finger off or cleave the helmet. Honestly a roll of 10 wasn't going to do it. Now adamantine armor tools not only would be MW but I'd probably add more due to them being adamantine.

2. Armor working tools and time. Your plan for that was fine just needed to remove the unholy symbol first.

3. Holy water might do the trick. My goal here was to have you interact and experiment with others. You do have a cleric in the camp that might know more. Or to make the religion checks yourself.

4. No problem with you doing the work but making magic arms or armor has it's own feat. If you have others with the feat do it I have no problem storywise as long as you pay the full amount and all enchantments are core.

5. That sounds cool.

All in all sounds good! I’ll price out the adamantine tools…given that Dadna is still well under WBL and nearly died a few times, I don’t want to spend too much when there is no mechanical benefit.

As for the enchantments, Holy (weapon) and Defiant (Armor) are both from Ultimate Equipment. They feel very Paladin to me, but if they aren’t allowed then I’ll go with straight enchantment bonuses. Also Confort is from Pathfinder Society Field Guide and is Ultimate Equipment

Holy is core and can be used.

Sorry for the silence, all, was busy with Thanksgiving. The loot distribution looks good, to me. I'm catching up on Gameplay now.

At least you had a reason Ardriel, I had Ian walk around and I'm not sure how to jump in the other two conversations.

Still not sure where to jump in, just wanted to let you know I'm still about.

I am kind of stuck thinking of what to do for the rest of the day. This day ended sooner than I had hoped.

If you have nothing to do for the day then say so and the day will move on. No need to get caught up on filling up a day. That being said it does give you the chance to talk to people and ask questions about anything you have run into if you want to (I am not sure that there is just saying now is the time). You don't have experts in all things as part of the party so they are at camp.

We are going to be joined by Pixie Rogue and he is going to be making a... you guessed it Rogue :) He is going to need some mythic advice I think so please be helpful as I know you all are. Some of you I know play in another game with him. Just remember you are not fighters.

Wonderful news :)

Good to have another player, even a rogue. So are we giving up on the all paladin party? Will we be able to take alternate classes when the time comes?

I would like to second Ian's question.

I trust our GM to stick to the theme. We are in a campaign where most choices are locked unless they fit into the character theme. I very much doubt that something like 'paladin only' would go away. :)

I would advise for trickster mythic (as it was asked!):

Tiers 1-2

"Trap Taker (Ex)
You can use the Use Magic Device skill instead of Disable Device to disable magical traps. If your Use Magic Device check overcomes the DC to disable the trap by 5 or more, you can instead leave the trap in place, but change it so that you and your allies can bypass it. You can also alter the trap so the original creator and any creatures he might have designated as safe instead set off the trap. If you expend one use of mythic power when altering a trap in this way, you can move the trap to any point within 100 feet that is in line of sight."

Disable Device will still disarm mundane traps. But UMD can now bypass (and take over!) magical traps. Traps, in general, are a huge blind spot for the party.

----

Another great (in my mind at least) trickster ability is:

"Unwavering Skill (Ex)
You can always take 10 or 20 on class skills, even if threatened or in a hazardous situation. You can’t use this ability with skill checks that don’t normally allow you to take 10 or take 20."

Why? Well...it lets the PC take 20 on disable device and UMD! Which means any lock and any trap can be disarmed/disabled/taken over, so long as the base skills can meet the DC. It also means that, once UMD is high enough, wands and the like can always be used without rolling. Also, some builds like feinting. Especially tieflings who can get +4 to bluff as a racial ability. Being able to take 10 or take 20 for a bluff in combat? For a feint build, unwarvering skill + compelling feint is great. Take 10 with a high bluff score and it effects all enemies.

-----

Sadly this means no 'in combat' mythic abilities, which everyone else runs with. But Tier 1-2 mythic trickster really doesn't have much in the way of combat mythic abilities.

But...and this is just spitballing, because advice was asked. The Aldori Dueling Sword, Bladed Scarf, Elven Curve Blade, Elven Branch Spear, Estoc, and the Spiked Chain can all be used with two hands while using Weapon Finesse. Mythic Weapon Finesse lets you use Dex for Damage. Alot of these are exotic weapons though. So elves, half-elves and humans would have the easiest time with this.

So depending on the race/background of the paladin, grab any one of those items and get the sweet, sweet 1.5dex to damage when power attacking. Would be a huge damage spike for a dex based paladin for any archetype except virtuous bravo, which does +lvl to damage when using a one handed piercing weapon and nothing except a buckler in the off hand.

-------

Tiers 3+

Tier 3 is when trickster really shines to me.

* The other nice 'damage spike' I could see from mythic trickster, ironically enough, comes from using a weapon like a greataxe. Fickle attack 1 means that when rolling a 1 for damage, it becomes a 12. Can take it 3 times, so when rolling that great weapon damage, a 1-3 becomes a 12. Combine with mythic vital strike...and it would put Dadna to shame. The only 'problem' with it, is that it doesn't feel very trickster to me, to be hitting things with the biggest axe possible.
* Mirror Dodge is probably the best defensive ability in the game. Get hit? 1 mythic point and you get a free teleport. Take no damage! It also means that every follow up attack the enemy was going to make is wasted. Enemy antipaladin has smite good up, and gets a crit on that first hit? Teleport away for 0 damage and laugh as all of the iteratives are wasted. Mythic guardian wishes that it could tank this well.
* Combat Saboteur is pretty crippling for many enemies. It's better than disarmed, as a broken weapon can't be used to attack. It takes 1 minute to fix, or the mending spell, meaning that the enemy weapons can still be looted and used normally. It just makes enemy martials weep.
* Eventually, at Tier 6, Slayer’s Cyclone is just downright amazing. Enemy is flat footed, make an attack. If you hit, attack again. After hitting and make a move at double speed and hit someone else who is flat footed. Which means, technically, in a surprise round this one ability can mean continuous attacks until everyone is dead or you miss an attack.

----------

Anyways...I'm done. And I personally blame DM Trawets for giving implied permission for all of this text. :)

Honestly, I would not focus on dealing damage. DM Trawets is already inflating monster HP to account for our ludicrous damage output, so there is no point to doing more damage (either directly through weapons or indirectly through Feint). It's just a treadmill. Increase damage further, and the GM increases monster HP further. I'm switching to sword-and-board full-time to take down my damage and boost my defense.

Defense would be nice - either directly boosting party AC/saves or else impairing enemy attacks. Mirror Dodge and Combat Saboteur that Dadna noted above are both good. Bodyguard can be useful (or Archon Diversion).

But I would say that solving problems is our key need. Compared to our all-fighter party, our all-paladin party seems to have more difficulties. Part of this is the lack of Variant Multiclassing or the lack of free feats to fill gaps. We've gotten a lot of mileage out of the Scales of Levitation so that is one utility option that we've gained through gear.

The Disable Device options that Dadna noted are great, but keep in mind that we also need the "Open Locks" option of Disable Device. Smashing our way through every door just feels so Barbarian-like.

I have no strong opinion on the new PC being Rogue or Rogue-ish paladin. We've done a lot with the all-paladin party but it does seem more limited than the all-fighter party. One way to keep with the all-paladin theme but also have a more capable rogue would be by allowing Prestige Classes. A Paladin could in fact PrC into Pathfinder Delver or Shadowdancer for example.

Sorry I misspoke a bit. He is a paladin filling the rogue role.

The last number of fights I went down to stock hp. We had a discussion about this a while back since you were down to 4 and I decided to drop it down. I was advanced templating and full HP everything but haven't in a while. I may start boosting HP again but will warn you if I do so. We'll run some combats and see.

Take 20 takes 20 times as long and assumes you roll a 1 along the way so you can't take 20 on any skill that has that or has consequences for failing by 5 or more I believe. Being able to take 10 is a nice ability though.

Hello, everyone. As DM Trawets said, I'm very open to suggestions - I will have to take some time to consume what's already been offered - but yes, this is a paladin build with roguish tendencies.

Looking forward to digging in, but Christmas prep is on today's agenda. Talk soon.

Welcome Pixie Rogue! Have a good time with the Christmas preparations!

There are a few paladin archetypes that could work.

Our previous trickster used the Faithful Wanderer archetype, which grants more skill points as well as Perception and Stealth as class skills. Not a bad option. Virtuous Bravo suits a high-Dex build, and Dusk Knight is pretty good at Stealth.

Sacred Servant grants a domain, and something like Trickery, Travel, or Knowledge could add useful capabilities. Trickery is pretty rare among paladin deities, but Chaldira (NG), Erecura (LN), and Khepri (NG) have it. Chaldira has some pretty great obedience boons. Oddly, Kelinahat, Empyreal Lord of Intelligence, Spies, and Stealth does not have Trickery as a domain. Travel and Knowledge are somewhat more common among paladin deities.

My reading of Trap Taker would not give a paladin the ability to disable magical traps. Reading Disable Device, it is not the skill that gives you the ability to disable magical traps, but the trapfinding class ability. That ability is only available to rogues, investigators, and slayers. The fact that I can use Use Magical Device doesn't appear to matter.

If that's not the ruling (and it's a big nerf if I'm reading it correctly, so I hope it's not), I also have the issue that my current build uses the tortured crusader archetype, so Charisma is actually a dump stat for this character - he uses Wisdom as his main statistic.

He's a team player, but his abilities are not beneficial to teammates, so he will have to provide aid through his actions. For path abilities, if Trap Taker isn't nerfed, I will take it. I think I have narrowed my path ability choices to Assured Skill (more interesting), Deadly Dodge, Defensive Move, Nimble Glide (less interesting), Shadow Stealth, This Might Just Work (more interesting), Transfer Magic, Unintentional Feint, or Wall Run.

I'm leaning heavily toward skill abilities, I think, in light of Leothar's advice that you aren't really needing me to bring more damage to the party.

All that sounds good to me. I hadn't thought about a tortured crusader. But I can see how it would go well with a tiefling (and a tiefling paladin trickster would go well with the party). I look forward to both seeing your crunch and the character backstory!

The way I read Trap Taker it allows anyone with UMD to try and disable a magical trap. I think most people forget Trapfinding isn't the only way to disable traps. Dispel Magic works as well. Detect magic may find one as well as perception. How to go about it depends on the particulars of the trap.