Jade Moon and me like the idea of a big battle over a duel type. It may have something to do with us wanting a dynasty warriors throwdown though.
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Jade Moon and me like the idea of a big battle over a duel type. It may have something to do with us wanting a dynasty warriors throwdown though.
So do I, but there are difficulties and complexities in making this. For example, what is a round in overland? A minute or an hour? How big is a single square, etc.
There are several ways to resolve this fight. Can I get some votes here?
A. Dynasty Warriors "Assaulting the Stronghold" Troop Map:
The first method is using the 'assaulting the stronghold' map, which is designed as Dynasty Warriors chapter: the soldiers take missions and automatically move to engage the enemy (all controlled by the GM), and the heroes move their unit across the battlefield (3 squares per turn). If the heroes engage the enemy, the player describes how they want to execute the battle, and the GM runs it off-screen and tells us the result.
When there is a boss fight, we run things as normal (tactical) Pathfinder rules.
We will need to use the [Troop] rules (see my post previously).
B. Fire Emblem "DYNASTY WARRIORS FOR THE WIN!" Mook Map:
The second method is one large tactical battleground. We control and move our soldiers like pets on the battlefield, and the enemies are mooks.
We will use the mook rules except where bosses are concerned.
C. Narrative Combat:
The GM runs everything off-screen and makes us fight a series of direct boss battles (like a gauntlet or endurance match). The troops are window dressing and are narrative tools.
This does not use any new rules, and is left to the GM.
D. Single duel:
We're invited to Mortal Kombat in a 5v5 combat between the heroes and the enemy's generals.
The simplest and fastest, IMO.
E. Invasion:
We infiltrate the enemy's lands dungeon-style, which I think is the original idea presented in Kingmaker.
As a normal dungeon.
Personally, I vote for A, since I already did the conversion and everything, but I think GMAsh would want to choose C or D because it's much less of a headache.
Jian Xi, I presume you'd want A as well?
Yea, for both of us but what ever the GMAsh decides we're cool with as well.
It looks like the majority favors the battle.... Battle it is. So, ignoring my ooc comments on the game-play post, respond to that. And we'll go from there.
Sound good?
As for "time". We'll use standard rounds and whatnot. It's just easier.
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Hu Baolin to Mountain Pass (takes 20 men): With the dragon-summoner present, Hayashi and his shinobi get a better chance of sneaking over undetected. With the dragon's flight capability, enemy defense forces lose some of their advantage from high ground. The forces then can continue eastwards to take the bridges.
Hu Xiang to Watchtower B (takes 20 men): Hu Xiang will be able to take Watchtower B quickly, and hold the vantage point for line of sight entangle spells and effects that hold the enemy until we outmaneuver them.
Jian Xi to Watchtower A (takes 30 men): The forces that take Watchtower A and fight the boss is best led by Jian Xi. Once the area is taken, the vantage point can be used to see all the way to the ridges, and we can evolve our plans quickly.
Jade Moon to Watchtower A (as Jian Xi) With her support, the boss can be taken relatively easy (hopefully). Also, her presence can distract reinforcements that arrive (Fascinate performance), and Kitsune are attuned to the woods.
Tsui Dawei to River Hold (takes 10 men):
The forces sent to the land between the rivers' convergence (the pentagon shape) is supposed to hold position and provide ranged support and to protect the army's flank. Tsui Dawei will be accompanied by 10 men (one arrow), but they will hold the advantage of terrain (defending behind a river, good vantage against reinforcements) and at-hand reinforcements from the forces that take Watchtower C and Hu Xiang's long-range wood spells.
The remaining 20 men will take Watchtower C without heroic company, and will wait for further orders.
Where does the mountain pass lead? The map looks pretty squiggly on that topic.
I'm still extremely unclear as to how this should work.
ok, basically, each group is tackling a single boss .
each boss occupies a checkpoint on the way to the "stronghold" which is where the Stag Lord is sitting.
as you guys progress towards the strong hold, you'll take out the check points.
at each encounter, you will describe what you want your units to do. I'll craft a narrative and we'll go from there.
at a boss encounter, it goes to regular rounds and you guys duke it out.
Each of you can either kill the bosses separately (so Baolin tackles is boss, and Hayashi his, etc) OR you all tackle each boss together after clearing out the checkpoints.
also, i'm heading to the big island for a school trip. This is my LAST trip (that i know of) for the foreseeable future. Until, like, Thanksgiving. So, i'll give until monday for everyone to get their actions in and then i'll move us along in storming the stronghold.
right but i still need them to post..
Should we just... Describe victory? There doesn't seem to be any structure here.
Ya, i was tryign to go for "you describe what you want to do... and then i'll link 'em together." that plan, however, just isn't really working. I thought that's what we all agreed on. But, i probably misinterpretted the crap out of it.
so.. i'll just skip us along to the boss fight
:(
sorry, tried for a cool thing and i failed miserably
The problem is that I don't understand the map well enough to make an educated guess as to what we might want to do. Where the lieutenants are, for instance, or how much resistance we'll be facing.
ah. i see. each starburst is a generic mook battle. the idea was that you'd narrate what you'd want to happen as your action. I post what the forces do against you and wrap everything up in a cool scenario post. YOu go and do that a few times and then go and then fight one of the stag lord's lieutenants as a boss battle.
it's supposed to mimic Dynasty Warriors, or, like, chinese war epics (think like, Red Hill, Hero, etc) in film, or the "champion" battles in Romance of the Three Kingdoms.
but, i can see the confusion. It's a super-cool idea, and I can't think Hayashi enough for cobbling together a map to try and make it happen. But, between the confusion and my lack of communication, i think i've botched this idea entirely. i think it'd be best to just move along ot the lieutenants and get to the Stag Lord. I'll flavor-text the mook battles and then the 5 of you will do the boss battle.
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I'd put the blame on lack of communication as well. Here is how I envisioned it: we had upwards of 100+ men, and six (now five) heroes, while the Enemy has ~70 men, but the advantage of home terrain.
Each 10 men (from each side) is turned into a super-unit (following Pathfinder's [Troop] rules), which pools their hit points and offensive/defensive capabilities for mass combat purposes.
The idea was that we give orders (based on what we see of the enemy), and that's our turn. The enemy then makes their own move (shifting tens of soldiers from one end of the map to another, or bringing in a boss in chokepoints), forcing a Warhammer-like tabletop strategy game. Ideally, there would be interactive points, such as blowing up/sabotaging a bridge to cut off reinforcements, or targeting the enemy's scouts so they would not know where to counter our efforts.
The idea has potential, but if we try this again some time in the future, we need to cover the following areas:
A. The players need to know how much enemies are in their line of sight so far so they can distribute them based on needs, and so they can make informed decisions where to commit resources.
B. The descriptions must focus more on the numbers of men falling on each side (easily represented by how much HP they have from maximum), and on battlefield tactics (hit and run, shield wall, pincer tactics) to flesh out the war-like feel.
For example, infantry in a chokepoint use shield walls to take less damage and to hold out a massive number of enemies, and infantry on open ground (since we don't have mounted units) utilize pincer tactics to provide the +2 flanking bonus to accuracy. Morale checks can also be used.
C. The per-turn structure in the game must be emphasized, and enemy positions and movements must be represented with their own colored arrows (in line of sight, of course), as well as lines representing the enemy bosses (like those one-liners given by enemies in Dynasty Warriors before a boss comes in, while surrounded by his allies).
D. There must be an incentive to spread out forces rather than concentrate them in one push--such as the risk of being outflanked or outmaneuvered.
Edit: In truth, the troop rules are very good--since the opposition turns out to be extremely tough. The below default warrior is the Lingshen warrior in lamellar armor.
Human warrior 1, LN Medium humanoid, Init +1; Senses Perception +0
DEFENSE
AC 17, touch 11, flat-footed 16 (+6 armor , +1 Dex ); hp 8 (1d10+3); Fort +2, Ref +1, Will +0
Offense
Speed 20 ft.; Melee longspear +3 (1d8+3/x3) or greatsword +3 (2d6+3/19–20) or dagger +3 (1d4+2/19–20); Ranged javelin +2 (1d6+2)
Space 5 ft.; Reach 5 ft. (10 ft. with longspear)
Statistics
Str 15, Dex 12, Con 11, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 9; Base Atk +1; CMB +3; CMD 14; Feats Step Up , Toughness; Skills Craft (weapons) +3, Profession (soldier) +4, Survival +1; Languages Common
Combat Gear potion of cure light wounds ; Other Gear chainmail, greatsword, dagger, javelin, longspear, 2 gp
And below is the troop
Human warrior 1 [Troop (10-Man)], LN Medium humanoid, Init +1; Senses Perception +0
DEFENSE
AC 17, touch 11, flat-footed 16 (+6 armor , +1 Dex ); hp 40 (1d10+3 x 5); Fort +4, Ref +3, Will +2
Offense
Speed 20 ft.; Melee longspear, Accuracy 13 (5d8+15/x3) or greatsword, Accuracy 13 (10d6+15/19–20) or dagger, Accuracy 13 (5d4+10/19–20); Ranged javelin, Accuracy 12 (5d6+10)
Space 10 x 25 ft.; Reach 5 ft. (10 ft. with longspear)
Statistics
Str 15, Dex 12, Con 11, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 9; Base Atk +1; CMB +3; CMD 14; Feats Step Up , Toughness; Skills Craft (weapons) +3, Profession (soldier) +4, Survival +1; Languages Common
Combat Gear 10 potions of cure light wounds (heals 5d8+5 hp); Other Gear 10 chainmail, 10 greatsword, 10 dagger, 10 javelin, 10 longspear, 20 gp
Versus Hayashi, every round they'd deal around 37 damage (33 after accuracy vs. AC), reflex DC 13 halves to nearly 16/turn.
That's severe.
If the enemies are shooting at Hayashi with arrows, we're looking at 5d8 or 22 (18 after deduction) or 9 damage after a saving throw.
Of course, deflect arrows is active and can negate one arrow, so that's 4d8 instead, but the fact remains that this could be a very challenging fight.
eh. there will be open battles later, so we can revisit then. Let's just smash the bosses and move on. I've managed to botch this event enough, I think.
ya, sorry. I updated game.
This has been my life:
Last saturday was in an accident. i'm fine. car's ruined.
Closed out school and had to do a string of late-night meetings.
dealing with car insurance and other things of not-fun.
upshot: bussing for a while means more time to game!
downshot: my 25 minute commute has become 1.5-2 hours. with a 2mile walk included. At least exercise!
yup.
by late-night i mean getting out of school around 8
with a car, no problem. no car? ya.... 10.
the failed grapple is what did the AoO.. but it didn't matter.
and, the solo thing... let's not do that. It's going to take forever. and drive evedryone nuts with the spoilers (and by everyone i mean me. It'll drive me crazy)
OK,
The writing's been on the wall for a while now. I've been foolishly hoping i could fix things. But, it's pretty clear that I've bungled this thing so badly that most of you are only interested out of habit. So, let's just drop the other shoe.
I'm sorry. I failed as a GM. I had a cool concept, and thought I could make the idea work. And, well, cool concepts don't really make a successful game, do they? My skill level at doing this thing wasn't really what I thought it was.
So, I'm hammering the final nail in the coffin of this thing. Let's call this game a wrap, and we can all walk away.
Again, I'm very sorry.
Happy gaming.
It was a pretty enjoyable ride while it lasted. I had a good time and wish you the best.
OK,
The writing's been on the wall for a while now. I've been foolishly hoping i could fix things. But, it's pretty clear that I've bungled this thing so badly that most of you are only interested out of habit. So, let's just drop the other shoe.
I'm sorry. I failed as a GM. I had a cool concept, and thought I could make the idea work. And, well, cool concepts don't really make a successful game, do they? My skill level at doing this thing wasn't really what I thought it was.
So, I'm hammering the final nail in the coffin of this thing. Let's call this game a wrap, and we can all walk away.
Again, I'm very sorry.
Happy gaming.
NO! Please don't close the game. You did an awesome job as a GM. I am so sorry we haven't posted as often. The madness in me and Havoc's lives has finally calmed down and we were so excited to start posting again. When we checked to see what was going on with the game, we saw this and we were totally crushed. This is an awesome game, please give us one more chance. You have no reason to apologize, we do.
You guys were all great players. I loved watching all your characters grow and play. But, really, it just fizzled out. If someone wants to continue this game, I'll pass ownership over (not sure how to do that, but we can figure it out).
Again this isn't any of your fault. It's me. My delays and all that stuff. So... Ya.
Happy gaming
general idea:
Stag Lord was Jian Xi's dad.
She of the Jasmine Mists had been plaguing Hayashi for some time.
Baolin has connections to the gal who was supposed to be fed to the Celesetial Dragon.
Each of the characters was possessed of an aspect of the Celestial Dragon, and had a corresponding element. They'd, eventually, give rise to the full Celestial Dragon, again, who would possess King Huang and make him the Eternal Emperor Reborn.
You were going to fight Stag Lord in his "throne room" with She of the Jasmine Mists playing the samisen beside him. They were going to pwn you guys, but the fox Jade Moon kept seeing back at the shrine was going to appear, morph into a pure-white kitsune, block the attack, and everyone would slip unconscious. They'd wake with renewed purpose and a premonition to go West. You'd also have a shiny new castle.
West is a village connected to Jade Moon. And, she'd find out she had strong connections to Daikitsu.
Stag Lord and SotJM retreat back to a fortress in the north.
That boy you found from the haunted cabin would end up being haunted by a crazy-evil ghost that would reek havoc on the trading post, until you guys settled it. The ghost would have connections to SotJM, and lead you on a quest to getting items to stopping her for good.
Eventually, Jian Xi and Jade Moon would find a ghost-woman carrying a baby which they tend 'adopt'.
The shinobi that you guys acquired in Xiwu would betray you because they were part of the House of Fallen Leaves.
SotJM was going to stir up trouble with Baolin's family and their mortal enemies.
Po Li, Tianjing, and Bachuan were all going to send armies in to Shenmen to take advantage of the power vacuum you guys were creating. You could go a few ways there, but it'd probably culminate in a Battle of Five Armies. You'd eventually defeat the Stag Lord and, if he lived, he'd have a change of heart as he finally broke from of SotJM's power and swear allegiance to Baolin.
Tianjing would ally with King Huang, and offer aid, as needed.
Eventually, you'd tear down the Torii of Mirrors, severely hampering SotJM's power base.
Daweii was going to meet a few priests/have a religious revelation and set in motion events that would restore the Eternal Emperor Faith.
After the battle of five armies, the Torii of Mirrors would crack open, releasing the spider-spirits of everyone slain in shenmen, ghosts, and other yokai that would possess mortals. It'd also release a miasma that would sicken and eventually kill all good yokai/spirits. You would jump through the Torii and find SotJM in her temple beyond.
Eventually, you fight her, win, and claim half of Shenmen for King Huang, with Baolin being the lord of the land. IF you guys wanted to proceed, you'd take the north of Shenmen, as well, or turn your sights to Po Li or Bachuan.
So, that's that. that was where everythign was going, in no particular order
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Thanks for the rundown. I'm seeing several classical tropes here, and I'm sure that the problems that brought down the game were not story or character-related, but mostly centered on organization and management of the game.
Thank you, GM for running this game so far.
Thanks, party members. I hope I'll see you around the forums.
Hayashi out.