Durgan thinks #3 myopic and foolish (as do I personally). Roads cost money to build and maintain. Bridges even more so. Canals even more than that. Tolls are a fair way of ensuring that they are paid for by the people who actually use them. Now, carts and wagons and large animals cause far more damage than people walking, so the tolls could be just on those things and not on walking people (making it more progressive). That is what I would advocate. Walkers would probably still pay tolls on ferries.
Also, Nettles' Crossing provides a precedent for tolls in this region. If another private citizen wanted to build a road, canal, bridge, or ferry on their property, they should be able to recoup their investment - we don't have to build everything.
If our own bridges and canals save merchants enough time and risk, they'll pay to use them, which means our infrastructure was a wise investment. It could even turn a profit. I imagine this will be part of Durgan's area of responsibility, but if not, then he will let whoever else figure it out for the kingdom and fight for funding from the general treasury revenues.
The Sixth Freedom... anybody who tries to oppress the weak and take what they want by force, we prove that we are the strongest, beat the hell out of them, and give the goods back to the weak. Selectively using the Sixth Freedom to deny the Sixth Freedom.
Your thoughts on 1,2, 4, and 5 I generally agree with. But just as it would be a mistake to implement Brevoy law entirely, it would be a mistake to implement River Freedoms #3 and #6.
Morally, Durgan is not opposed to #3, he just thinks it is likely to lead to a worse economy and infrastructure. It's not against Abadar's precepts of righteous laws, but it's against Abadar's precepts of what leads to a prosperous economy.
But #6, holding up the strong robbing the weak by force as praiseworthy... no, that's not okay at all.
Aye, but unlike other laws, these are already "implemented" in the region.
So while we would implement Brevoy Law, in the case of the river freedoms, we need to 'bypass' those we don't want to keep.
As said, #6 is a difficult one. We may also want to present a general amnesty for those who partook in banditry previous to our take-over. Simply to allow a fresh start, and at the same time making clear that it's a one-time offer.
Other than that, yeah, I agree, internally we can enforce it, hence why I said we should respond quickly, against threats internal and external. But considering it IS the most important river freedom, we will need to transform it rather than abolish it. Hence my suggestion to turn it into propaganda. "WE have what WE hold."
A sense of common pride for all our citizens. If we make sure to improve quality of life for them to be better than those of surrounding regions, then it becomes a powerful tool. They will stand behind us in unity to help make sure what was achieved is safe. They will work hard to do their part, and enlist when we call on them to defend their way of life.
As in, move the concept from a personal level to a nation-wide level.
As said, morally, I am completely with you - taking things by force is not praiseworthy. But that is the most important river freedom/concept that these people live by daily so I don't think outright abolishing it is a smart move - in fact one that may actually drive people back into a criminal lifestyle or trying to contest our rule/refuse it(with a catch 22. If we accept their independence, we confirm that they have what they hold. If we enforce our rulership, we confirm that we have what we hold. In both cases they see the river freedom fulfilled by forcing our hand making it seem a desirable scenario to them)
Regarding 3: By all means, private infrastructure should be able to recoup their investment. But there can be no exclusivity or guarantee. Using Nettles crossing as an example: If the toll hampers free travel or trade, or the capacity does not keep up with increased demands, then we must be allowed to take over or provide an alternative - even if doing so would ruin the private enterprise.
That said, while roads do cost money to build and maintain, we DO benefit from them, too, by increased trade flow, fast travel routes, better regional safety from patrols, etc ...the point is that we WILL have taxes. In a way, the citizens already PAY us. We "own" the roads, they pay "taxes", and as such gain the right to use the road we build and maintain.(Note that Roads have no consumption listed - they have no running cost high enough to consider compared to the impact on economy they provide.)
I am not opposed to incurring costs for ambitious projects or matters of convenience(using a ferry instead of using a bridge half a day upstream, or using an artifical canal instead of following the river for a day - or using a mountain pass instead of going around) but basic travel should be available to everybody, regardless of their financial status.
And only taxing carts/wagons/large animals is a 2-sided coin as well: Farmers moving their produce, merchants moving their goods, convoys bringing supplies - they all will make sure to pass on that cost - increasing the cost of goods to the common citizens, who end up paying for the cost of transportation. Not sure we want that - as that lessens their buying power and number of goods purchased, weakening the economy on the whole. The german word "Binnenmarkt" translates as "Single Market" - generally free flow of goods with lowered costs passed on to customers strenghtens the economy - in my opinion we should eventually aim for a unified market, at least internally between the autonomy regions.
That is, of course, applying modern economy theory to a fantastic semi-medieval setting, but since there is an excuse to do so in following a regional "law" I think we should take the chance.
What I AM fully for is a toll/fee for those only moving goods through our territory - something like unless they offer it for sale for a fixed time depending on good or until half is sold (to prevent them from setting up shop for a day at inflated prices to avoid the toll, then move on). That is, if Galt decides to ship stuff to Mendev using our infrastructure, there should be payment involved, since it neither helps our economy nor do they pay taxes.
So yeah, a middle path is probably best.
Actually I obviously did not read 6 properly.. Zokon is all about hating on bullies, you try that crap around him and get your ass beat.
You two seem to have the tolls thing worked out... Zokon will be all over using a portion of the money to look after the disaffected by providing them jobs. Everyone works in whatever capacity they can and everyone gets looked after.
Within a certain set of limits i.e if your playing the system you get booted.
Also with a potential amnesty, any given will be on the proviso that your crimes are not to serious, if they are found out to be at a later date, amnesty will be rescinded.
@GM
Sorry I've not updated the character yet. I don't have Herolab working as I've reinstalled the OS a few times so I do not have the licence key. I'm trying to find it and will rebuild Posh best as I can do.
I'll read over the kingdom rules in more detail. I do like Civ and it looks a lot like that.
Generally, I would not be in favor of any transportation infrastructure that has a net increase in costs after considering either the taxes or tolls, whichever is paying for it. Exceptions for routes that are militarily essential.
Here's an idealized example: we build a bridge that saves merchants 7 GP per wagon in time, animal feed, guard payments, wagon wear, and so on. The bridge costs us 4 GP per wagon, amortized. So we charge a toll of 5 GP per wagon. Merchants' savings of 2 GP per wagon after the toll.
We get a profit of 1 GP per wagon.
The merchants are persuaded to pass 1 GP in savings on to our citizens in the form of lower prices.
They still get a profit of 1 GP per wagon.
Everybody wins.
Merchants don't want to use our bridge and pay a toll? They don't have to, they can go the long way around, but their overall costs will be higher.
If a bridge led to higher costs for the merchants when you factor in the toll then nobody would go that route.
But if the bridge cost more to build than we recouped in tolls, it would be operating at a loss. We could subsidize certain routes out of the general treasury, as long as we have a good answer for our more libertarian-minded Riverfolk citizens shouting "Why I am I paying taxes for something that doesn't benefit me personally?" Like "military necessity".
(And if it's paid for by raising taxes instead of levying a toll, there should still be a consideration if the improvement is worth it.)
As you say, it's about convenience and non-exclusivity. I think we can find a way to approach this that our Riverfolk can live with.
I quite agree on lowering barriers to trade but see tolls as distinct from tariffs. Both the US and the EU have "common markets" among their member states with no internal tariffs, but still have things like toll roads/bridges/tunnels, port/airport fees, congestion pricing, and gas/petrol taxes. Intended to fund the infrastructure and manage the use of limited-capacity resources, and in the long term foster increased trade and reduced costs. In fact, in New Hampshire, they call their gas tax a "road toll" because they are rather libertarian and prefer the idea of a toll to the idea of a tax.
(Much of my work touches on this topic and I do find it interesting.)
Aye, but you will find that the mechanics of kingdom building are somewhat abstracted.
It does not deal with individual GP prices/costs.
As said, for costly projects that essentially help efficiency over a free 'basic' option, I am with you.
Alas, the abstracted roads only HAVE a positive effect. RAW.
(There is a point to be made to limit that so not everything gets plastered over with roads)
Bridges cost more to put into place, but otherwise work like roads. No costs, only benefits after the initial placement.
Rivers only need to be claimed and count.
There are "highways" you can build at a certain kingdom size, as upgrade of roads, but all they do is increase overland speed, otherwise working identical.
(to me it would make sense if THOSE would have a consumption value, like 1/8 or 1/16 - that way those would be used only where they are important, not to connect every little village with the main hubs.)
As such, the abstract representation of roads does already take care of maintainance. It simply has a positive net effect on our economy, without fiddling around with details.
As such, when we are free to flavor it, and the people desire a right to free movement, then it makes sense to say using the infrastructure is free and they are crown projects.
For those complaining about taxes, we can point at military safety, increased variation and quality of goods, better services, etc...just because they don't personally use the logistical infrastructure does not mean they don't benefit from it.
Mechanically, stating that road tolls pay for it is identical, but will likely negatively impact popular opinion since it goes against their way of life.
As said, I do propose a sensible middle ground, certain tolls and fees do make sense. (and honestly, a lot more would, in the real world - how is there no tax on Kerosene here...)
But overall, we should work with the level of abstraction that is provided by the rules and simply roll with it, then flavor it in a way that works for our region.
We have no real reason to restrict free movement of our people, and it is something they desire, hence my suggestion.
just because they don't personally use the logistical infrastructure does not mean they don't benefit from it.
Oh I know. But I expect that is a fight we will have over and over again on any manner of civic improvements and it will be Illthir's job to sell that logic to the citizens. Good luck Illthir!
Good luck Illthir! :D
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Just another moment or two. You've added a few posts.
Illthir will get some really high boots, a black robe and a voice modulator and simply decree "YOUR DARK LORDS COMMAND IT!" whenever someone questions our rule ... :P
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@Elves - I'll point out that those aren't our future/current citizens. They are foreign agents spreading potentially damaging (but true :P) rumours about our future queen.
Hmphm.
Alia would you mind if they were thrown infront of the bus so to say?
Purely hypothetically of course, but maybe if some sort of rumour spread that the elf lady in question were actually some functionary from Kyonin here on brief escapades. And maybe she actually had purple hair ... :P
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Infrastructure again - I doubt commoners expect much say in exactly what we pour their money into. As long as we don't do anything astronomically stupid while also neglecting our duties towards them I don't think we'll have that much trouble.
And if there *is* trouble I'd say there's probably more to it then their dislike of fancy roads : )
Illthir will get some really high boots, a black robe and a voice modulator and simply decree "YOUR DARK LORDS COMMAND IT!" whenever someone questions our rule ... :P
Posh will then resist, get his hand cut off and whilst fighting ontop of a spire Illthir goes.
"No, Posh. I am your father!""That's not true! That's impossible!"
"Search your feelings. You know it to be true!"
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If the female Half-Elf Illthir(who also was a former Grey Maiden) turns out to be the Gnome Posh's Father, I will literally retrain into Summoner and get a Balrog Eidolon I'll name "Fly".
So every time someone goes "OMG what's that?" I can stand proud shouting "Fly, you fools!"
Also, Civic Improvements.
What's up all.. shall we go with the "nice" magister?
Yup, Scarlet will play "act like a dumb mercenary so the nobleman doesn't try to piss her off."
If the female Half-Elf Illthir(who also was a former Grey Maiden) turns out to be the Gnome Posh's Father, I will literally retrain into Summoner and get a Balrog Eidolon I'll name "Fly".
So every time someone goes "OMG what's that?" I can stand proud shouting "Fly, you fools!"
I totally want to see that!
sounds like a plan
I should have the itinerary for the trip all down later today.
She looks back and says: "Why kill him of course, Your Majesty." And with that the curtain closes.
Don't know who her friend is, but I feel he's in a lot of trouble!
I've been pondering something clever to say about Alia's comment, but I'm drawing blank here. Hmh. Grey Maiden? But Alia was the one going to do a gandalf impression I thought?
I'm going for the marriage in White. Alia the White.
And then, maybe, many colors? *innocuous grin* why stick with Grey only-...
*looks around for her Palantir*
On a more serious note:
We'll need to eventually name the nation, and there's been a remarkable shortage of suggestions so far.
The region we are in are the "Stolen Lands", but the greater area is known as River Kingdoms.
The surrounding nations are Brevoy, Numeria, Ustalav, Razmiran, Kyonin and Galt. (and some of that undefined wasteland to east)
The inner political situation sees Pitax and Mivon as our immediate neighbours, but a good number more nations - many of which are part of the outlaw council (who actually codified the river freedoms as law for the region 89 years ago) meeting annually in Daggermark.
That makes for a complicated political situation, of course.
By the sounds of the intermission, we'll end up at least adding Pitax to our territory (eventually) *smug grin*
Probably more.
Aside from the River Kingdoms, the area is known by one other name: Telvurin, the shifting Lands, the hunting reserve for Kyonin Elves before Earthfall.
It would be Alias suggestion, not as a means of "reclaiming" but because that's simply the lands name to her(and it technically includes all of the River Kingdoms, so later expansion still keeps the name "correct".)
I know Durgan will likely point out the potential political difficulties with using that - hence I would ask the GM to comment on the suggestion - Kyonin never actually 'claimed' the land again, so I figure it may just be an ancient name for the region with no true political implications in modern times. (something like Iberian Peninsula, or Scandinavia, the Balkans, or Siberia)
But I may be wrong.
(Or we may not like it alltogether *shrug*)
There's also a certain "thinness" of the veil to the first world in the Stolen Lands region, according to scholars - so other suggestions would draw on inspirations going there: Gaen Vale or Athel Loren could work, both shamelessly stolen from regions in Warhammer. Or Hibernia (latin Ireland) / Caledonia (latin Scotland) / Avalon (from Arthurian Legend).
Other mythical places I could imagine stealing the names of: Tír na nÓg, Thule, Themiscyra, Nysa, Nibiru, Aztlán, R'lyeh or Arcadia.
I'm also open to looking to book series for inspiration, but would prefer not to take the "primary" stuff(e.g. no "Gondor" from LotR, but taking e.g. the river "Sirion" would be fine.)
Also Astrology(Vega was named based on the Star System) offers some options - I like Polaris, Antares, Canopus, Rigel, Eridanus, Lyra, Cygnus, Corvus and Auriga.
Just throwing a lot of stuff out there(and also for self-reference to steal names from, later). But I figured we should get started somewhere :)
R'lyeh!!!! Really?????
I like Arcadia... or Indigo Arcadia.
Umm... Cerulean Glory as the capital is on a hill and has a great view of the sky.
This would also allow it to be a place name and as it grew be named something else that better represents what we are.
I like the names Haumea (dwarf planet named after Hawaiian fertility goddess)
Hyrrokkin (Named after norse Giant)
Aoede (Muse of Song - greek mythos)
Yeah, also a hard pass on R'lyeh!
There are some great names in other Lovecraft stories though. Just not Cthulhu's home.
Not a fan of Telvurin, as Alia guessed.
Arcadia is already a place on Golarion.
Lots of the others look good. I like Avalon the most. I also like Haumea a lot. Cerulean Glory as the capital city works.
Gaen Vale, Athel Loren, Nysa, Sirion, Eridanus, and Auriga are all good.
The astrological ones are interesting. Cygnus is a swan, and Corvus a raven. Ravens are certainly intelligent and resourceful, but often dismissed as annoying vermin. Not sure that is quite us. Is there an animal that conveys an image we want to project? Then a name for that could be suitable. Maybe ant (Myrmink? Formican?).
Or in the vein of Lovecraft (but perhaps not quite as ominous) are names from Lord Dunsany: Pegāna, Sardathrion, Harza, Tarphet, Cyresia, Merimna, Babbulkund, Oonrāna, Plegáthanees, Agrodaun, Runazar, Kynash, Yarnith, Khamazan, Nydoon, Allathurion, Yann, Mandaroon, Astahahn, Perdóndaris, Belzoond. And so many more.
Or, we could take a name currently in use for part of the region or a notable feature, like Kameland, Narlmarch, or Shrike.
A name honoring Oleg would be really cool but Leveton... no, we can't have Levittown. Ogle? Nope. Lego? Nope. Geol? Loge?
Perhaps we should create a floating city and call it Laputa!
On a more serious note:
We'll need to eventually name the nation, and there's been a remarkable shortage of suggestions so far.
Alialand!
The region we are in are the "Stolen Lands", but the greater area is known as River Kingdoms.
The surrounding nations are Brevoy, Numeria, Ustalav, Razmiran, Kyonin and Galt. (and some of that undefined wasteland to east)
The inner political situation sees Pitax and Mivon as our immediate neighbours....
Even more immediate are your Brevic neighbors inside the Stolen Land. On the north side of the Narlmarches is Baron Drelev's chartered territories (the Hooktongue Slough area, which the party kindly named for him: Fort Drelev) and beyond that a further hunk of chartered territory exists in the Glenebon Uplands (you haven't met those people yet). Meanwhile, to your southwest (in the Torrs of Levenies) lies the holdings of the Swordlord Varn--to be named Varnhold.
As for names: Yuggoth has an eerie sounding Erich Zahn sort of violin ring to it. ;)
I like the names Haumea (dwarf planet named after Hawaiian fertility goddess)
A whole planet of Hawaiian dwarves.... {Mind... Blown.} I'm just picturing the grass skirts kilts at the luau....
I could tell you the awesome name that my home group came up with. They fought over it for a while and then like Durgan suggested, they eventually looked at the map of their territory and drew some inspiration from there.
"Well, if you were to ask me. (Always a good thing to do.) I would tell you to call it the Dale Lands. It has a good ring to it if I do say so myself."
Hey, some of the places were meant as city names.
R'lyeh does not have to be our country. But if we come into possession of some creepy place with strange stuff happening, it's always an option for a local city there... *grins*
And aye, the astrological ones do have meaning/origin(as do some others) but most are somewhat arbitrary.
And oh my, they named the lands beyond the Ocean Arcadia, I was not even aware. But Haumea, to me, is bearing a bit too much semblence to Hermea.
(My first ever Pathfinder Character was a Draconic(Golden(Yeah, Mengkare)) Sorceress hailing from there - so the locale still is dear to me).
Many of the others seem fine, but I would prefer a name I won't have to look up the first 20 times I write it ;) We can use those more complicated ones for regions or cities, too.
Same with Oleg - making the Trading Post into a Merchant Hub named "Fort Oleg" or something is great, naming the whole nation after one of many victims doesn't seem quite right.
@Posh: Next you tell them Alia's real name is Nausicaä and she was a Sylph Wind Kineticist all along...
@Eldiocesan: Before we go there, we should figure out to what extent you will be aiding us and contribute to our success.
@Cerulean Glory: Sure. With the sister city "Morning Glory" in the Narlmarches? Lots of Elves chewing flower seeds? :)
@Eldiocesan: Before we go there, we should figure out to what extent you will be aiding us and contribute to our success.
Shoves Victoria to the street you will have to build. "As the Sorcerer Supreme of the soon-to-be created Shadowdale I shall guide land to the good of all."
As long as there's someplace we can name Ulthar, I'm perfectly content
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Also, damn.
I missed my chance for the "We've only known for weeks, but it feels like I've known you for years" 4th-wall-reference :P
@Ulthar: Vega approves!
I want to first say that I am not assuming that Durgan wants to slip stuff into that contract.
That is NOT what I worry about. But regardless, I am in doubt about such an agreement:
a.: I think that it's not "common" for some villagers working and living on a farm to have a standardized 84-page pre-nuptual contract. In fact, I believe such a thing is, if at all, utilized among the nobility/high social classes.
b.: Furthermore, I believe that it is not a unified Abadarian document, considering the countries have very different laws and priorities. With a semi-lawless land like the River-Kingdoms, I'd assume said document is based on the Brevoyan version instead.
c.: The Brevoyan document is most likely heavily influenced by the fact that it's a patriarchic CN nation in turn heavily influenced by Rostland, Issia and Taldor. As such, I'd assume that a good number of standard clauses are formulated in rather one-sided ways, especially regarding aspects important to the nobility there.
Alia is not a law-student and does not think such a document is warranted, assuming there are clauses and sub-clauses that may be hard to understand or draw the correct conclusions of.
If it is indeed a required formality among nobility, she will want to have a lawyer from Kyonin looking over it to make sure it is, indeed, fair to both parties, not giving one side preferential treatment.
(In fact, letting a lawyer countercheck the actual content is a good standard approach before signing legally binding major contracts in foreign nations.)
I want to first say that I am not assuming that Durgan wants to slip stuff into that contract.
That is NOT what I worry about. But regardless, I am in doubt about such an agreement:a.: I think that it's not "common" for some villagers working and living on a farm to have a standardized 84-page pre-nuptual contract. In fact, I believe such a thing is, if at all, utilized among the nobility/high social classes.
Abadar is the god of the big city and lawyers.
Now Erastil is the god of good, honest, hard-workin' country folk. How is Alia at cooking and house-making? She could knit some blankets of resistance +1 for all the kids.
Durgan's points of reference are Dwarven society and Brevoy nobility.
Extremely high net worth individuals (e.g. 6,000 gp) would have complicated agreements.
Dwarves would spell everything out as much as possible to leave little open to debate.
Mostly it's a joke about the doppelganger clause and the Reincarnate clause and so on. Playing on Durgan's inordinate love of paperwork.
You can ignore it if you wish.
Alia will become better at cooking and house-making, make no mistake :)
But only once Evangelist swings around.
That said, no wondrous items planned, only arms and armor :)
@Durgan: Oh, I understood it's mostly a play on your love of paperwork, but I have no idea if such a things would be a de-facto standard in Brevoy law.
No Contracts!
Witnessing by a Priest of Abadar who has integrity is all that is required for the moment.
Am I the only one picturing a Willy Wonka contract here? Something about floods, fire, frost, or frippery
No Contracts!Witnessing by a Priest of Abadar who has integrity is all that is required for the moment.
Will do.
Yes, yes, I know that a marriage executed under false pretenses should have no legal standing. But it often does in folklore and fiction, which are also valid inspirations for an RPG.
So if there is, say, a 30% chance of Alia or Zokon being secretly kidnapped and replaced by an evil lookalike before the ceremony, just remember that it was your choice to not include a Clause 37B.
Aye, sure. *rolleyes*
If I end up needing to pick a new host body, I'll make sure it's one pleasing to Zokon.
Just one variation of the story, but an amusing switch nonetheless
I did say only a 30% chance... but you've got to have some respect for our GM's creativity in throwing a wrench into our plans...
Oh, I definitely do.
I just think IF he wants to get creative, a contract will not stop him ;)
Certainly a interesting turn of events. I wonder what will happen with this nation and who is going to be doing what. Are Alia and Zokon going to be rulers?
Consort, for the time being.
To some extent, this is practical.
Both Alia and Zokon have reasons to consider it such.
But be certain that Alia will not forget your help with her blade.
We have no idea what it will cost...but she will not have you carry that burden by yourself.
Consort, for the time being.
To some extent, this is practical.
Both Alia and Zokon have reasons to consider it such.But be certain that Alia will not forget your help with her blade.
We have no idea what it will cost...but she will not have you carry that burden by yourself.
Consort? Makes sense that it would certainly be a practical situation.
It will be interesting for the cost, but as a player I'm also curious about when Raven will appear again and Posh, having no idea of the dramatic interlude, will not have any reason to think she might kill him apart from his own paranoia.
It'll be very interesting to see what happens.
Welp things kinda ran away from me again and now there's almost 30 unread posts. I'll try and get to them tomorrow asap - sorry for my slowness!
So where to now..?
Flag ideas?
Broken chain over a flowing river?
On the topic of the nearly-named Broken-Chain-Over-the-River-Land.
Many of the others seem fine, but I would prefer a name I won't have to look up the first 20 times I write it ;) We can use those more complicated ones for regions or cities, too.
How about Hom? Sure it is apparently already taken buuuuut it's short! ;)
Otherwise there is:
Ulthar
Haumea (HULA DWARVES!!! The image just makes me smile.)
Telvurin
Mengkare
Gaen Vale
Athel Loren
Nysa
Sirion
Eridanus
Auriga
Pegāna
Sardathrion
Harza
Tarphet
Cyresia
Merimna
Babbulkund
Oonrāna
Plegáthanees
Agrodaun
Runazar
Kynash
Yarnith
Khamazan
Nydoon
Allathurion
Yann
Mandaroon
Astahahn
Perdóndaris
Belzoond
Hyrrokkin
Aoede
Tír na nÓg
Thule
Themiscyra
Nysa
Nibiru
Aztlán
R'lyeh
Arcadia
Kameland Something
Something Narlmarches
Shrike Somthing
And a whole lot of others I'm not listing here.
You know the Hula dwarves thing is selling it for me and my 6 year old was the one that told me about the dwarf planet Haumea.
And do we have a final list of jobs and possible titles (example: Supreme Witchy Pooh [Magister] Victoria). In the case of roles that are going to be filled by NPCs, perhaps a list of the top three candidates each of you want to approach.
Ruler
Consort
Councilor
General
Grand Diplomat
Heir
High Priest
Magister
Marshal
Royal Enforcer
Spymaster
Treasurer
Viceroy
Warden
EDIT Here's a spreadsheet to make voting a bit easier. Note: you don't need a Viceroy at present.
If everyone could come up with their top three kingdom names, and maybe the reasons why they like them, we could start to narrow the field.
Avalon
The Shrikereach
Haumea