Of Kings and Commoners - Kingmaker AP

Game Master RPGGGM

Zokon will play on his "Nobility" as much as possible to get this new nation and veritable independence for him and others going.

He will send a message to his father or brothers to get to his father if dad won't take his message, that he is looking for a suitable wife.

Maybe a charisma giving item so he can rule effectively?

Scarlet's number one attachment is her mercenary company. Maybe they had a big break. Maybe Alia does fire her, but she's on a long-term assignment with a noble.

Or maybe Scarlet sees an opportunity to build a community from the ground up and do it the right way. Instead of running, she sticks around and helps build the former Stag Lord's fort into a model city.

Scarlet has no interest in marriage. So maybe she joins a dueling school to hone her skill.

If none of these work out I can roll up a new character who is tied more closely into Brevory. I wasn't thinking about that when I made Scarlet.

One of the reasons I put in the firing was to give Scarlet the opportunity to say "Oh yeah? Well, I don't need your stupid job. I'm a Queen now so nyah!" It is an opportunity to break away from Alia if she likes and do her own thing--build a town like Tymon or maybe New Otisburg?

Making a new character is another option. It is actually possible to do this and still keep Scarlet hanging around in the campaign through a bit of secret role-playing tech developed by those crazy White Wolf game designers called "Troupe Play" where in players play characters at multiple levels within the same campaign. Back in the 90's I had a far reaching Vampire: the Masquerade/Werewolf: the Apocalypse/Mage: the Ascension/Changeling: the Dreaming game (I never got too far around to Wraith: the Oblivion that game is so scary personal it is hard to find players). Anyhow, players had characters at all levels of the game and most factions, from mighty vampire city elders and reality shaping mages to lowly neonates and werewolves just taking their rites of passage. They played tradition mages, technomancers, traditional Camillian kindred, anarchs, and Sabbat pack mates, and fey dreamers trying to keep the spark of imagination alive. Everybody had six to a dozen characters, and often they mingled, or worked at cross purposes with other people's characters who were involved in different stories. It was a fun decade, and something I foresaw as a possibility here. Imagine the new 1st-level adventurers coming to help clear Scarlet's fledgling kingdom of Otisburg of monsters then years later these (I don't know 6th-level characters) heroes go on to be important folk in Otisburg founding churches and wizarding schools. They in turn are looked up to by the kids born in Otisburg in the time since they originally arrived. These kids are raised on tales of their and Empress Scarlet's heroism. Eventually these kids (1st-level characters) go on their own adventures maybe beneath the Old Sycamore, or the mysterious dungeons beneath the Bear Cave. They find that things have changed since the time of Scarlet the Bodyguard, and maybe find the places inside them that Scarlet did not plumb. Then they head back to town and hang out in the bar that one of the mid-level retired heroes build and runs.

So yeah, new characters are an option as well. But nothing says that your current character has to take Magister up on his charter. Scarlet can stay a simple adventurer. In fact, no one has to sign on. You can just be "ordinary heroes" if you like--head down to the Shackles and become pirates, or see what the Runelords are up to. It's a big sandbox baby! Let someone else (an NPC) be the king and just continue exploring and safeguarding the land while working for them. You can just be "ordinary heroes" if you like--head down to the Shackles and become pirates, or see what the Runelords are up to. It's a big sandbox baby!

Maybe a charisma giving item so he can rule effectively?

That's what advisors (AKA spouses) are for. ;)

It's funny, but the Kingmaker iconic characters in the back of the AP books are the barbarian (Cha 8), the ranger (Cha 6), the monk (Cha 8), and the druid (Cha 15) or as the class is now known--the Face. I just can't tell you how many times have I been to a fancy society cotillion or court ball and had to contend with cultured, elegant, and witty druids.

Durgan does want to take the Magister up on the charter - I did make him for Kingmaker after all, with a focus on 'building civilization' - but if the party wanted to go in a different direction then I would be willing to make a different PC. Maybe even have both to switch back and forth as you suggest. I am interested in seeing the AP's story and not getting entirely lost in the sandbox. But I am happy to explore.

Presuming Durgan has some sort of leadership role, he would like to marry and have children someday, but Zokon's heirs would be of age much sooner. And as you note, the Abadar church connection gives Durgan a role even without having heirs. Although Brevoy has a lot of CN aspects, they do like gold and nobility enough to pay some respect to Abadar. Durgan's vision is that the new kingdom be more NG - he knows that a LG kingdom might be (unfairly) distrusted as being the realm of zealots. It's not like you hang a sign on the border saying what alignment it is... Durgan wants a focus on decency and doing the right thing and a general respect for order without seeming as strict as Mendev. Because he knows not to push the locals too far.

As to nobility connections, he likes the Lodovka house well enough. Lord Kozek Lodovka is a decent man, though not particularly disciplined or focused. Edrin, the Lodovka cousin with whom Durgan went to the Worldwound, has settled down with a family in a small fishing port town on an island in Winterbreak Bay. Durgan does not want to get too deeply entangled in Brevoy politics, but would be inclined to help out the Lodovka family if needed and if he perceives they are in the right. He would definitely go to help his old crusader friend Edrin. (So these are hooks if you need to get him to Brevoy for some reason). Durgan's parents are in Winterbreak on Acuben Isle, as well as his younger brother and the brother's family. The family business is ship-building; Durgan had been in charge of the accounts while he was working for his parents.

So...Zokon.

How about a ...uhm...wedding as a formality.
Like, no fancy stuff going between us.
You keep your freedom, I have mine, nobody asks weird questions and you can legitimize some bastard of your choosing later.

I get a bond to Brevoy, you are not stuck with some political marriage that wants you to have kids before they are too old.

Serena will go with the group flow. She would certainly not mind becoming a ruler, but marriage is right out and you can forget her switching deities. She is willing to swear loyalty to a noble, but she isn't averse to bucking the system and instituting change, either. Just because Bevoy is a patriarchal society doesn't mean that can't change. She really has no desire for children right now.

Founding a town could be fun. Change has to begin somewhere, and that may be the in-road to doing it.

@Alia - taking one for the team?

But a political marriage is actually the point here. Strengthening our connections to the fatherland, as the GM said. It might be advantageous for Zokon to marry somebody from an influential Brevoy family that is not too crazy or evil (that is, that the family is not crazy or evil, as well as the actual bride). And I don't think that given his own experience he'd want to have a bastard son, even one later legitimized.

In GoT terms, we need him to find a Tyrell, Stark, Tully (eh), or Baratheon (eh).
And not a Bolton, Lannister, Targaryen, Greyjoy, or Martell.

Not sure how the various Brevoy families line up in terms of craziness or evilness.

but but but... isn't that what marriage s for, too find yourself a pretty arm attachment and have lots of fun making babies?

Plus Zokon is not so sure, as a pretense you'd have to at least be near each other and Alia seems fond of stabbing things with that blade....

Zokon would also at least like to see what goes on with his father and maybe brothers as he would like to see the look on their faces..

But by strenghtening your connections to the Fatherland, you also lessen our power to influence what this nation becomes.
Say a Brevoyan noble decides that his daughter would make such a fine queen if not for that pesky King -

I think keeping as much of the power on OUR side of the border as we can while still keeping up the impression that we are good little pawns would be best and most desirable.

And Zokon may want to enjoy his freedom a bit longer before deciding to settle down. Regarding Bastardness: He can always decide later. Heck, who is to say there can't be a rule regarding divorce, in several years. Point is, he does not have to make the decision NOW. And saves me from pretending allegiance to someone I care nothing about.

@Zokon: You can have plenty of fun with plenty of people. It's good to be King, as Mel Brooks once said.
That said, Alia finds all of you tolerable and has not stabbed anybody recently. That said, it was only a suggestion. By all means, consider your options. Just don't come complaining in a couple years.
Also, there's nothing saying that the pre-text can't become fact later. Who knows what the future brings. Right now she is not interested in settling down, having babies or anything of the sort. But maybe in 15 years a couple kids could be fine. Her biological clock has centuries to go, but living in such fast-paced places with change a plenty could also change her outlook.

Zokon would also at least like to see what goes on with his father and maybe brothers as he would like to see the look on their faces..

Something like this.

Durgan does want to take the Magister up on the charter - I did make him for Kingmaker after all, with a focus on 'building civilization' - but if the party wanted to go in a different direction then I would be willing to make a different PC. Maybe even have both to switch back and forth as you suggest. I am interested in seeing the AP's story and not getting entirely lost in the sandbox. But I am happy to explore.

And again, some PCs could remain outside the power structure while others do become members of court though the chance for split parties and some PCs having more in-game sway than others would have to be addressed. It has to be addressed in a "normal" kingmaker game as well, as one PC is often a ruling overload and another the county sheriff, or owlbearcatcher.

Edit It is possible though to make a number of small individual kingdoms--a confederation of towns or such, with those of you disinterested in spreadsheets (I have not unveiled the kingdom rules yet) becoming sort of knights errants of the realm. So maybe consider the sort of campaign you want to see going forward. Also you are going to be expected to name stuff, towns, castles, kingdom(s), etc....

I should also note that this next book in the AP expands on the exploration theme of the last book, so those of you who are wavering on whether or not you want to swap PCs want to hold off. You can always do it mid-book if feel the need. Book three is practically it's own independent module in relation to 1 and 2.

...I don't think that given his own experience he'd want to have a bastard son, even one later legitimized.

Ah, Durgan's read The Da Vinci Code.

@Alia - taking one for the team?

Perhaps she's just thinking about his big, hairy--er, um, eyebrow?

If it is possible for Durgan to have a role in kingdom administration, but mostly delegate it so he can adventure, that would work well. He would check in periodically and handle the big decisions. I believe that is the intention - I know in the default kingdom rules you need to spend at least 1 week per month actually doing the job, leaving some time for exploration.

I quite like this PC and would prefer to keep playing him. But he wouldn't be up for a prolonged absence from his new responsibilities.

Making up names is tricky. If pressed, I tend to steal liberally from Classic D&D (Mystara).

Right now, Serena clocks in at 6,009.1, the bulk of which is her +1 scimitar, +1 heavy steel shield, and masterwork plate. She has no other magical items save a single potion of cure light wounds. I have not added any wealth that was gleaned from the bandit fortress.

Hmm. Zokon will think about it, but 15 years!!! he'll be old by then..

Yes it is potentially a good idea to keep power here, but not such a bad thing to keep ties as here we make the rules and even though some brevics may think they can gain power, well we just dissuade them of that notion.

Aye. And no matter how old you grow, you would have an eternally young queen at your side... think about it...when you are 60, Alia still looks like she's in her early twenties *wink*

Zokon is listed as 22 - that means in 15 years he is 37 - that is definitely not too old for a man to start a family - and by then, the region and country will be stabilized and peaceful, which means you can focus on this new adventure...rather than have a couple of children and never getting to spend time with them because you are busy risking your life adventuring.

(That, and of course there is one more thing to consider: The potential of character death. If Alia dies, you are free to choose a new wife, naturally. But if Zokon dies after marrying his cousin, we might be 'stuck' with a Regency by an NPC Queen that is a Brevoyan noble. Keeping ties is good, but I really think we want to consolidate the top level of power - just in case)

Zokon has charasma 10, he's nice and all but his people skills are hmm..... mostly my leadership is tongue in cheek.

Poshment Underhill wrote:

Just realised I haven't leveled up Posh. I've cleared my hard disks a few times, but should rebuild him sometime.

I had mentioned it a few times, but so long as as everyone in the party is within a level, or so of each other it's fine with me if you are aiming for HARD mode. If it ever gets to the point where I need to add three levels of druid and a level of mystic theurge to a PC then we would really need to talk.

I need to do some serious backtracking. I assume everyone is level 4th or 5th?

As a player, I would rather take the risk of engaging more deeply with Brevoy because I think it would make for a richer story - compared to the PCs turtling up in a diplomatic sense.

I fully understand that is not the most optimal course of action from the point of view of minimizing risk to ourselves. But then, playing it safe on a strategic level is not my goal (on a tactical level, I am a big fan of defense and AC). Having an awesome story is my goal. To that end, I really want to 'have some skin in Brevoy' as the GM said. I trust the GM to make this a rich and exciting story. Deeper engagement with Brevoy would also mean our characters could influence that kingdom. The ties go both ways.

Sure, there's a small risk of the PC ruler dying in a way that cannot be reversed, and that leaving us with an NPC regent, but I think that too remote a chance to worry about. I don't want fear of a worst-case scenario to dictate our decisions. And hey, if the Ruler chooses their match well, it could even be a fun development.

It is rather rare in my experience that PCs truly engage diplomatically with the politics of an area. This is a fairly unique opportunity.

Durgan could establish ties to the aristocracy. House Garess has a dwarven heir apparent so there is precedent. Siring an heir of his own might be a problem, since taking a dwarven bride would not help with Brevoy (unless the House Garess heir Toval has a sister). And Bastards of Golarion says that humans and dwarves cannot interbreed barring powerful magic. If Durgan were to take a Brevoy noble as his wife, there would be no heirs until he gets Miracle. (An industrious dwarf producing an heir with a human to perpetuate the aristocracy does seem like the kind of Miracle that Abadar would support.) This is not to say I want him to be Ruler; as High Priest or Councilor he could still be a valued match (assuming that Abadar does not expect his High Priests to be celibate). He could effectively be a Duke in Zokon's Kingdom. Or, again, the multiple small kingdoms idea that the GM mentioned.

All that said, if the rest of the party really wants us to just do our own thing and not get entangled with Brevoy, I can get on board with that.

Edit: the "multiple small kingdoms" idea might be really good. Alia wants to consolidate power with fewer ties to Brevoy, and I want the opposite.

Durgan, you are also assuming only Brevoy has stakes or interest in the region.

I think it makes for MUCH more interesting situations if several of the characters have associates and backers from a variety of neighbours.

Alia never made a secret of her loyalty to Kyonin, and that she considers Telvurin to rightfully belong to them(which would throw her into an interesting conundrum if Kyonin came knocking, since her allegiance is with the party and the place she helped build up, then - but at the same time her loyalty to home remains strong. Formally being Queen(despite not being in the line of succession) could be a strong argument for her there to reassure Kyonin while not promising anything - so yeah, there's more thought on the proposal than simply getting "Skin" in Brevoy.).
Someone else may have a background in Mivon or Pitax, even Numeria or further-away places.

Of course, we will be bound to Brevoy, at least to begin with. But I think having interactions with the other neighbours on the table will make for an even richer story compared to aligning deeply with one nation that will be reluctant to grant us independence.

Plus the option of having different spotlight-points. Say we end up with border friction with Pitax, but alas, there 2 characters hailing from there, having contacts and backgrounds there, can attempt to influence things, or take the lead in negotiations or a campaign.

As opposed to having everybody just straight aligned with Brevoy, which gives a deeper story with them, certainly, but not necessarily a richer experience overall.

EDIT: @Multiple smaller kingdoms: It would also allow more streamlined decision making regarding Kingdom-Building, and different focal points for society, laws, etc.
But we'll need to be careful with that, as well. Wouldn't want a situation where Durgan comes knocking on the head of an army by order of Brevoy because Alia didn't want to accept the recent tax raise and decided to dump tea into a harbor.

I will defer to the GM and try to follow the breadcrumbs.

I don't want him to get stuck trying to make too many moving pieces fit together. And then take eight years to finish Book 6 (to continue with the GoT references).

Edit: and if the political ramifications would lead to PvP, I will find another solution. No interest in PvP even if it is at the kingdom level.

Dude it's take us 2 years or so to do book 1, I have literally finished book 1 3 times, including my own run game, since this game began.. i'm not so sure GGGGM has too convoluted in his repertoire.

Hey the ties to Kyonin make seem more inviting.. but ya.. I spose Alia could rule and Zokon could help with Brevic influence as he'd be terrible in the CHA role.. he's probably much better at the sneaky behind the scenes stuff anyway.

But by strenghtening your connections to the Fatherland, you also lessen our power to influence what this nation becomes.

I would point out that the PCs becoming rulers is conditional upon their ties Brevoy not a 'maybe'. Now it might be possible to falsify such claims, but they are not going to hand power over to a bunch of people that they have essentially just met. There's no issue with having some PCs with no ties who want to stay on as bodyguards and such for ruling PCs, but those rulers are going to need some connection to Brevoy.

As for Durgan, House Garess does include some dwarves. I also took the liberty of lifting the dwarven kingdom of Glimmerhold from wherever it was once set, and placing it in the mountains on Brevoy's eastern boarder. Glimmerhold is not Brevoy, but have had dealings enough with one another that they could qualify as another brick in foundation of one's respectability.

Sure, there's a small risk of the PC ruler dying in a way that cannot be reversed, and that leaving us with an NPC regent, but I think that too remote a chance to worry about. I don't want fear of a worst-case scenario to dictate our decisions. And hey, if the Ruler chooses their match well, it could even be a fun development.

So democratically elected representative government is off the table then? ;)

Dude it's take us 2 years or so to do book 1, I have literally finished book 1 3 times, including my own run game, since this game began.. i'm not so sure GGGGM has too convoluted in his repertoire.

True that. I'm more of sandboxy GM. I set the stage, layout the possibilities, answer questions, but let the players ask the questions and make the decision about what to do next. These are unfortunately things that are easier and more quickly done in-person and requires a lot of time from GM and players both. I'm not adverse to change (well, any more than anyone else is). One way to go faster might be to just leave out the "Kingmaker" (kingdom Civ) stuff, or minimize all the RP aspects of it, and just concentrate on the encounters in the books themselves like in a more standard module.

Hey the ties to Kyonin make seem more inviting.. but ya.. I spose Alia could rule and Zokon could help with Brevic influence as he'd be terrible in the CHA role.. he's probably much better at the sneaky behind the scenes stuff anyway.

You know, I'm still wavering on using skills instead of Ability scores for Kingdom checks. Firstly you guys's are going to be skewed because you were built on 30 point buy rather than the 20 that the characters in the original books were, and second you have more skills thanks to background points. Third, there is a case to be made that skill and experience are more telling than raw talent when leading a nation. Must... decide... soon....

I'm not adverse to skills being the way... purely because it stops it being just a game of Paladin, sorceror, bard, weirdo other combo that has managed to main stat Cha, as the ruler

Totaling my inventory on my character sheet, I have about 1030.68 gp worth of goods. Not a lot, but it's what I expected. Like I said, I don't do money and we haven't had a chance to buy anything substantial (weapons and armor in particular.)

Totaling my inventory on my character sheet, I have about 1030.68 gp worth of goods. Not a lot, but it's what I expected. Like I said, I don't do money and we haven't had a chance to buy anything substantial (weapons and armor in particular.)

Remember your PC can just find stuff amid treasure troves using your banked funds.

@Scarlet: Did you pass on stuff from Peets listing?
Or omit it? If the latter, we should rectify that or add it to bank:

@Conditional Ties: Certainly. I understand that, but I expect a lot of meddling from them, either way. I just don't want us in such a close relation that they end up replacing our appointed specialists in roles with some second sons of nobles that need an official function somewhere and doing it in the second-rate wilderness colony is a character-building adventure for them.
That is, I understand we are dependent on them, at least for the time being, and they will not support us just because they have too much money around. But I think we still want a fundamental power structure that makes them apply influence indirectly, via us, and not directly, via their puppets.
Not even because we MAY eventually want to be independent, but to keep control of what is going on, and be able to do OUR thing. Rather than having our foreign diplomacy dictated, and the set of laws mirroring Brevoy(because local administrators are cousins of the Magister), and the values and culture based on them(because their nobility is ours, too, and they can't be expected to adapt to something else). Basically, it's about freedom to act. We may never want to be independent and be steadfast allies of Brevoy through all the troubling times ahead. But we'll want to be more than their carbon-copy front yard they see merely as extension of themselves, but an independent nation that meets them on the table as equal partner.

@Skills: Sounds good. But in that case, we should probably get a chance during downtime to receive some 'tutoring' from those with more experience in the matter.(That is, allow some retraining so we can fulfill our positions without needing to dump all the Level 5 skill points in the skills suddenly needed.)
Regarding Ability scores: Most people did not min-max with the point-buy(e.g. getting starter values of 18, for 20 with racials) so assuming the influence is single-stat-based per role, we should still be fine. I just think Skill allows for some more dynamic approach...e.g. by solving a problem that would be purely Cha-based otherwise with Diplomacy, Bluff or Intimidate instead. Depending on who one is interacting with, some options may be "stronger"(e.g. a Kobold may be easily intimidate - a bad idea with a Swordlord who will react to flattery(bluff) - while a experienced politician will see through that and appreciate proper diplomacy - which in turn does little for the Kobold.)

Zokon has 3500gp worth of bow armour etc that he has got since the start of the game.

So we should total it all then divvy it up in a potential way?

Maybe we give a pretense of marriage or something to Brevoy and then a while down the track consolidate our power while, throwing of the Brevic mantle.... if we need to.

Thing is the pretense or whatever marriage could go multiple ways.. to get favour with Kyonin or Brevoy.. keeping them both wanting to make nice is not the worst idea.

seeing as how Victoria kinda fled down here to keep from being noticed, she would be fine with simply swearing an allegiance to Zokon or Durgan for saving her from the stag lord. That seems pretty easy to work with and probably won't involve her getting any significant publicity.

@Zokon: I think appointing the one Brevoyan noble among us as King should be plenty of favor with Brevoy to start with - not sure if a marriage with THEM on top is truly needed at this point.
Kyonin, on the other hand...

lol skill me up baby.. or i'm toast.

It's Good to be the King!
So let's dip our toes into something that will soon come up--Kingdom building. So far it sounds like people are up for full on Civ-style play. In the past I have used the Ultimate Campaign version of the rules (rather than the original rules from the second installment of the Kingmaker AP) combined with the rules presented in Legendary Games Ultimate Rulership.

There are numerous roles within the kingdom hierarchy that need to be filled in order to rule effectively these include:

Ruler, Consort, Councilor, General, Grand Diplomat, Heir, High Priest, Magister, Marshal, Royal Enforcer, Spymaster, Treasurer, Viceroy, and Warden.

Note the names might be different based on the sort of kingdom you are planning Rulers can be called Queens, Princes, Archbishops, Tyrants, Dukes, Shoguns, Thanes, Grand Poohbahs, or Big Cheeses if you like. The same goes for all the other names as well.

Note too some positions are more important to fill than others. You can't really do anything without a leader but you don't necessarily need heirs and viceroys until later in the kingdom's development (if at all). Each position has its duties and those duties can't be fully exorcised unless the position is filled. Lastly folks can switch (or otherwise change, loose or gain) jobs over time.

Any of the above positions can be filled by PCs or NPCs that the party recruits to fill the job. For instance, if you think that Samuel Renault would make a better ruler than anyone in the party you can try to recruit him to take the job. As a practical limitation, you can try to recruit anyone you've met in the game so far (assuming they are not dead). Everyone will have there own ideas about what if any job they would like even if they might be better suited for another job, and not everyone will want the job you might be offering. For instance, the Lord Mayor of Mivon would probably laugh you out of his city if you offered him a job as the kingdom treasurer. The leadership in Brevoy would probably be none too keen on the idea either. This whole process constitutes a sort of "HR mini-game" as the party searches out the best candidates and/or hands out jobs to their loyal NPC friends and allies, after filling the spots they themselves want. As the game progresses, and you meet more people, you might remove someone from a position and replace them with a new, better qualified acquaintance.

@Zokon: I think appointing the one Brevoyan noble among us as King should be plenty of favor with Brevoy to start with - not sure if a marriage on top is truly needed at this point.

That would help. Picking an overall ruler with a lot of existing ties to Brevoy would definitely set some of the nobles' minds at ease at least at first. Over time though you should expect them to try and get to know and gain leverage over important figures in the new kingdom's leadership. Again, Sam Renault works here too, given his family connection to one of the grand Brevic Houses. Bonus! Alia could marry him!

Speaking of the new kingdom--what are you going to call it?

Well, the Kingdoms name is Telvurin, of course.

Also, Samuel Renault would probably not be content with a platonic arrangement to start things with, so I'm afraid that is not an option.

That said, here's a first draft suggestion(still based on attributes):

Ruler: Kaiser Zokon Santyev (Cha=>Choose)
The Ruler is the highest-ranking person in the kingdom, above even the other kingdom leaders, and is expected to embody the values of the kingdom. The Ruler performs the kingdom’s most important ceremonies (such as knighting royals and signing treaties), is the kingdom’s chief diplomatic officer (though most of these duties are handled by the Grand Diplomat), is the signatory for all laws affecting the entire kingdom, pardons criminals when appropriate, and is responsible for appointing characters to all other high positions in the government (such as other leadership roles, mayors of settlements, and judges).
Consort/Co-Ruler: Alia (Cha=>Choose)
The Consort is usually the spouse of the Ruler, and spends time attending court, speaking with and advising nobles, touring the kingdom to lift the spirits of the people, and so on. In most kingdoms, you cannot have two married Rulers and a Consort at the same time.
Councilor: Illthir Winlowe (Cha or Wis to Loyalty)
The Councilor acts as a liaison between the citizenry and the other kingdom leaders, parsing requests from the commonwealth and presenting the leaders’ proclamations to the people in understandable ways. It is the Councilor’s responsibility to make sure the Ruler is making decisions that benefit the kingdom’s communities and its citizens.
General: Scarlet Scarab (Cha or Str to Stability)
The General is the highest-ranking member of the kingdom’s military. If the kingdom has an army and a navy, the heads of those organizations report to the kingdom’s General. The General is responsible for looking after the needs of the military and directing the kingdom’s armies in times of war. Most citizens see the General as a protector and patriot.
Grand Diplomat: Serena Mistcastle (Cha or Int to Stability)
The Grand Diplomat is in charge of the kingdom’s foreign policy—how it interacts with other kingdoms and similar political organizations such as tribes of intelligent monsters. The Grand Diplomat is the head of all of the kingdom’s diplomats, envoys, and ambassadors.
Heir: Vacant
High Priest: Shepherd Jhod Kavken (Cha or Wis to Stability)
The High Priest tends to the kingdom’s religious needs and guides its growth. If the kingdom has an official religion, the High Priest may also be the highest-ranking member of that religion in the kingdom, and has similar responsibilities over the lesser priests of that faith to those the Grand Diplomat has over the kingdom’s ambassadors and diplomats.
Magister: Victoria Velasco (Cha or Int to Economy)
The Magister guides the kingdom’s higher learning and magic, promoting education and knowledge among the citizens and representing the interests of magic, science, and academia. In most kingdoms, the Magister is a sage, a wizard, or a priest of a deity of knowledge, and oversees the governmental bureaucracy except regarding finance.
Marshal: Durgan Far-Walker (Dex or Wis to Economy)
The Marshal ensures that the kingdom’s laws are being enforced in the remote parts of the kingdom as well as in the vicinity of the capital. The Marshal is also responsible for securing the kingdom’s borders. He organizes regular patrols and works with the General to respond to threats that militias and adventurers can’t deal with alone.
Royal Enforcer: Akiros Ismort (Dex or Str to Loyalty)
The Royal Enforcer deals with punishing criminals, working with the Councilor to make sure the citizens feel the government is adequately dealing with wrongdoers, and working with the Marshal to capture fugitives from the law. The Royal Enforcer may grant civilians the authority to kill in the name of the law.
Spymaster: Poshment Underhill & Esme, Travelling Player (Dex or Int=>Choose)
The Spymaster observes the kingdom’s criminal elements and underworld and spies on other kingdoms. The Spymaster always has a finger on the pulse of the kingdom’s underbelly, and uses acquired information to protect the interests of the kingdom at home and elsewhere through a network of spies and informants.
Treasurer: Naleksa Vijic (Int or Wis => Economy)
The Treasurer monitors the state of the kingdom’s Treasury and citizens’ confidence in the value of their money and investigates whether any businesses are taking unfair advantage of the system. The Treasurer is in charge of the tax collectors and tracks debts and credits with guilds and other governments.
Viceroy: Vacant
Warden: Kesten Garess (Con or Str => Loyalty)
The Warden is responsible for enforcing laws in larger settlements, as well as ensuring the safety of the kingdom leaders.

Several people would be valid for multiple roles(e.g. Durgan could be High Priest as well, but from reading both roles, the hands-on approach bringing law to remote areas and helps build the economy seemed more fitting)
As said, it's just a first draft and skills may change everything there. But we got to start somewhere :)

In a different way of writing:

Loyalty: Illthir, Akiros, Garess
Economy: Victoria, Durgan, Naleksa
Stability: Scarlet, Serena, Jhod

Pick freely: Zokon, Alia, Posh/Esme

Posh does seem to go missing for longer periods now and then. Spymaster gives him a good excuse for disappearing for times - my original idea for the role was to try and get Esme for the Position, she travels a lot, has contacts with other travelling folks, has only indirect associations with us, it seems if she's willing to do the job, she may be in a good position to gather a lot of information about a variety of topics if her network is extended a bit. Posh can then sort the information, or launch his own in-depth investigations.

Reasoning for the other NPCS:

Akiros is even listed as a Badass. He is currently in charge of the Fort, and has experience keeping order, plus the position as Enforcer plays into his drive to be part of change and bring order.

Kesten Garess has ties to Brevoy, and is experienced in law enforcement, especially with organizing guard duty(as needed in larger settlements). He is well-suited to the job as listed.

Naleksa is a businesswoman through and through. She was always fair, but took every opportunity to earn something. But she was never unlawful, always playing by the rules. I think she would be a shrewd treasurer, enjoying working with money and working out advantageous deals for us.

All that said, I still like the idea of individual "Dukedoms" that those people who want to dive deeper into the material can manage - while the overarching structure of the official kingdom bonds us together.

If Zokon marries a Brevoy noble, Durgan will be Marshal, Councilor, High Priest, or whatever in Zokon's realm.

If Zokon marries Alia, Durgan will want to be part of a separate kingdom. Either as Ruler or under another PC.

Please clarify what offends you.
Your implication that you would have no issue taking on these kingdom roles under a different PC with no specified requirement of them marrying to Brevoy suggests the problem is with Alia.

That implies there are issues we should resolve, regardless of the decisions or outcome of this.

For the In-character role, I specifically only opted for the Consort, rather than Co-Ruler. The Ruler is Zokon. So if the reason is a different world-view and value system, then there is no chance she could overrule you, and I did advocate individual Dukedoms. So yeah, trying to understand the exact reason.

And further, there's a pressing need to know if the issue is with the character or the player. Wouldn't do if it's the latter and I switch to a Brevoyan Princess-Sorceress to keep the Role in Player Hands.

Hmm... Just to not cut out other people.. other please give your ideas.

My picks would be

Ruler - Serena Charismatic, Wise and just.
Councilor - Svetlana?
General - Alia
Diplomat - Illthir
High Priest - Jhod
Magister - Victoria
Spymaster - Posh
Treasurer - Durgan
Warden - Kesten
Assassin - Zokon
Marshal - ???

Whatever happened to Faeria?

It's what I said before. I think "turtling up" diplomatically to minimize risk is a bad idea.

Will expand more on that later.

@Ruler: Purely statswise, that may make sense, but I would REALLY like to have someone from the old crew in that position.

Numalar so very clearly wanted the kingship that it was hard to contest.
But I would really like to see one of the long-term companions on the throne, people with this game since multiple years.
Thats a personal preference, albeit a hefty one.

Zokon simply makes sense, despite his Charisma, because he is Brevoyan Nobility. Side note: A Brevoyan Noble as Ruler would be the opposite of "Turtling up" in my book.

But if Zokon insist on creating the Assassin role and taking it...
Scarlet was not given a role there, and could also be Queen *grins*
Purely technical, Posh has awesome Charisma. But his personality might not be exactly what is expected of a ruler - so despite mechanically being a great choice, I am not sure it would be a fit flavorwise.
Same thing with Alia. She has decent Charisma, and will pick up Leadership(which further boosts that) but she currently has her loyalties elsewhere and would alienate Brevoy, which is why I'm not suggesting her despite, admittedly, being personally interested in the role. (Another reason for the consort suggestion, because that does leave the path open for later if its more fitting)

Faeria the Mad was, if I remember right, last seen in Restov?
Her delusion may be a slight disqualifier for Kingdom Roles, albeit she would certainly be amusing.

Then there's also always the troupe-play mentioned above. Instead of NPC's, we could also bring in a few additional player characters played by the same players.
So I can be Alia the Elf and Numilara the Brevoyan Princess, while Illthir doubles up as a Swordlord and Scarlet brings in a Druid etc.
More PC interactions with new interests and loyalties. Could be fun, but custom-picking teams from a pool has the potential to break things and retiring characters before their story is fully told would be a bummer. So likely, they would remain as player-controlled NPC's, which could ease the burden a bit for RPGGGM.

Also, I say it again: I have no problem aligning closely with certain factions, but not to the point that the shots are called off-screen. If I were a Brevoyan Princess, I would obviously not want independence, I would want good and close relations. But I would make the decisions of my stations. Not some NPC. THAT is what I have an issue with, aside from possible locking out future options based on decisions we make early to align so closely with one faction that it becomes impossible to disentangle ourselves from that if such need arises later.

But by insisting on a separate Realm with a separate Ruler that is free to "more closely" bind themselves to Brevoy, you basically enforce that same policy on everybody else. While Individual Dukedoms under one Crown could still make their own contracts and deals.
But at this point of foundation, splintering up and saying "I made my own Kingdom because those guys are not loyal enough to you" does not make it likely Brevoy will support "those guys" unless they clearly prove their loyalty - in which case you managed to enforce the way you want things to be on everybody else, with everybody under close scrutiny and under watchful eyes.

So yeah, maybe we need to bring Numalar in as a NPC-King and just have everybody be regional lords doing their things.

Please Durgan give your reasons, you did come off a bit gruff. so some explanation is in order so we can proceed. When you can that is.. not trying to come off as do it now!!!!!

The GM asked us to show our connections to Brevoy as a condition of getting included in the charter. I do not think the appropriate response is "Let's do the absolute bare minimum and keep Brevoy at arm's length" (which is how I see the position that Alia has been promoting). That is the root of my concern, and why I'd rather be in a more Brevoy-allied realm.

I think on a meta-gaming level that is unfair to the GM. Yes, there are games where the GM just uses these connections to screw with you and make your life miserable and you have to fight the railroad every step of the way and push back against every nudge the GM gives you. That is not the situation here. I trust this GM and do not see him as adversarial. Sure, there will be complications, but that's part of the story. When I get a nudge, I generally don't want to push back and resist. If I am in a game where I feel I have to, then it's not a good game.

And I think in-game it could make things worse, to have Brevoy not trust us. I am not sure if our kingdom would be a colony, a vassal state, or a "sphere of influence" realm, but in any event, having ties to Brevoy could let us influence that country in time (the King of Scotland ended up on the English throne - and no, I am not saying exactly that would happen).

I think Zokon taking another (non-Brevoy-noble) PC as consort to consolidate power within the party would be a bad idea (again, 'turtling up' - reducing vulnerabilities rather than engaging). I think Zokon specifically taking Alia would be worse, because of the Kyonin connection. That would not engender trust from Brevoy. Durgan has zero interest in helping Kyonin reclaim the lands. The authority we have comes from Brevoy. And he does not want to be at the middle of a war between the two countries.

As to player concerns, Alia, I think you are engaged and thoughtful and I really enjoy being in this game with you. I do think you give excessive weight to worst-case scenarios when it comes to decision-making. That's been the root of various disagreements we have had but I don't feel they have been acrimonious - although it is hard to tell in this medium sometimes. We are looking at the same set of facts and coming to different conclusions, which is fine. I am cautious enough when it comes to battles, but on a "where does the story go?" strategic level I am happier with a higher level of risk. If you wanted to bring in a Brevoy Princess to be the Queen, that would be totally fine with me and Durgan would be part of that realm. We'd probably still have disagreements over the acceptable level of risk at various times, but that is not unreasonable in my opinion.

The GM explicitly said we could have multiple small kingdoms. If some PCs want to set up a kingdom that keeps Brevoy at arms' length or that has ties to Kyonin, I will take him up on that offer rather than try to persuade anybody to change their mind. Durgan can be Ruler, unless somebody brings in another PC more suited to the role. Durgan will have close ties to Brevoy and no ties at all to Kyonin.

Edit: I do realize that my earlier post read as "Durgan will take a role under any other PC ruler rather than Alia" for which I apologize. That was not my intent. Durgan will take a role under Zokon, or any other PC ruler who is a suitable ruler in the eyes of Brevoy - of which at the moment I don't think there are any.

I see where you are coming from.
But in this case, you seem risk-averse - after all, Brevoy could see such a marriage as strategic as well.
That is, get Kyonin to acknowledge this new kingdom with a patriarchalic system. The sons would rule, but Kyonin would, for centuries, have a "Queen Mom"/"Everqueen" founding figure in place and vested interest in the influence that could give them - since you used england as example already: the current queen would do fine to present my point. She's there since forever and a relevant figure internationally, but the actual ruling is done by a series of shorter-termed leaders.)
As such, they could be a natural ally in reinforcing Brevoys claims against any others that could consider the land theirs.

It's depends on how we want to roll.
As for being unfair to the GM: He did, repeatedly, state that this was one big Sandbox. We could back up, get some laser guns in Numeria, then head to the coast and become Anti-Slavery Pirates before heading to Nex. I don't think he is locked in on only allowing one associatiation here. Brevoy is vastly important right now because THEY are sponsoring this whole thing. They need to be convinced their investment is worth it. And I fully understand that as a player. They should definitely get their moneys worth, and as long as they are a reasonable overlord, I see no reason to re-align our interests or reclaim lands for others, nor make deals with them that are detrimental to our overlord or our relation with them.

I don't think the GM would screw us over, I simply believe, as said previously, that we'll have a richer and more diverse experience ahead if several of us have contacts or backgrounds as well as interests in other neighboring countries, instead of completely focusing on one neighbour.
If you felt I wanted to do the minimum and keep them at arms lenght, then that came across wrong.
I am only saying to keep an open mind, and open channels. I would, however, have difficulty coming up with a plausible, non-faked in-game reason to shift allegiance over to Brevoy - which is why OOC I suggested marrying Zokon to give both of us freedom.
He would not be forced into a political marriage with someone he does not love, and I would not be forced into sitting out the kingdom building until I can introduce a new character.

I think we also came to different conclusions looking at facts here.
To me, nominating Zokon for the throne already was a giant nod towards Brevoy, placing the one noble of theirs we have as ruler.
For you, that seems the bare minimum, at least requiring a marriage with them as well - yet you consider making a sub-kingdom of your own, despite having no bonds to them...which in my eyes would have LESS starting favor than a unmarried noble of theirs on the throne.
(Or even a noble married to his elven co-adventurer. It's not like we need to go and tell people at dinner parties that I'm actually a political being from Kyonin and anything more than an adventurer.)

As said, there's a discrepancy there between player and character. Hence also why I said time may change facts. Right now? Alia is virginal, focused on her craft and mastering the art of her blade and definitely far from settling down and starting a family. Maybe in 10 years of game-time, spent with a multitude of shorter lived races, seeing them change, she willl happily be a mother and forge art instead of weapons. That is a possibility.
But she has to have the CHANCE to grow into that direction. By forcing her to splinter off and run her own elf-kingdom in the Narlmarches independently, she will have no reason to evolve. I, as a player, want her to outgrow her roots and become something greater.

While I appreciate the sentiment, and I (as a player) would certainly not mind taking the ruler's spot, I don't believe that Serena is the best choice simply because she has no formal ties to Brevoy. Her desire to effect change would be a liability in developing a new kingdom. That said, I would be willing to take any role except Treasurer (personal choice; as a player, I hate handling things like that), Spymaster, or Magister (for obvious reasons).

My picks would be

Ruler - Serena Charismatic, Wise and just.

Serena will go with the group flow.

Also a conformist. ;)

Faeria was last spotted in Restov under the care of the church of Erastil.

I think on a meta-gaming level that is unfair to the GM.

Don't worry about me. I'm just interjecting verisimilitude into the situation. Zokon is an under-awknowledged bastard so even his claim to familiarity with Brevoy is tenuous. Putting him up as the authoritarian Sultan though would be politically wise and deflect some of the blow back for having a member of the cult of Sarenrae on the ruling council. Brevoy after all is a bit of a mix of Kellid tribes and Taldan imperialists--and Taldane has been persecuting the church of Sarenrae for its connection to their enemies--the Empire of Kelesh. Okay, that was perhaps too deep but the same might be said of Alia or Victoria as well. It is commonly held that the reason Brevoy's eastern neighbor Ioboria is so wild and unclaimed is because of Baba Yaga. The fact remains that most members of the current party weren't around for that meeting the in the Lord Mayor of Restov's palace to sign the original charter, and are therefore unknown quantities.

Brevoy has it's own plans for the Stolen Land to be sure. The southern side of the country (formerly known as Rostland a few generations ago) bristles under the regency of a northerner (from what was Issia), and so there is talk of unrest. The fact that anyone is even exploring the Stolen Land is a result of this tension. All sides of Brevoy see the Stolen Land as an opportunity. They certainly see you as colonies or vassals it is just politically impractical to call you such in the current climate, or to just tack you on as officially part of Brevoy. Still the economic opportunities in the region are too great to deny.

Ultimately what form of government you are going to have is for you to decide (confederation, monarchy, ruling council, theocracy, kleptocracy) but there will always be others swirling around you trying to influence events to their gain, and (for now at least) the biggest player is Brevoy. Aside from Zokon, Durgan is the only other person with deep enough ties to present an acceptable (to Brevoy's way of thinking) choice as a ruler. Likewise they could combine their efforts as the highest ranking advisors to someone else, but that person would have to be scene as their puppet back in Brevoy. Illthir and Scarlet are mercenaries and perhaps run second in the line of palatable candidates (because people figure they can be bought), everyone else hoping to rule (singularly) a big chunk of land (rather than serve a subservient role to one of the people listed above, or just being mayor of tiny Nowheresburg) will need some sort of in with Brevoy.

@Alia, I do see where you are coming from as well, and Alia does need a reason to show some allegiance to Brevoy. That makes a lot of sense. I think Alia could just have a role in the kingdom like everybody else - we are all allied to Zokon - and we'd still have Zokon's marriageability as a way for the various noble families to try to curry favor with us.

Zokon married to a noble gives us a connection to one house in Brevoy.
Zokon unmarried gives us opportunities - as the GM said, Zokon (and Durgan) don't need to strengthen their connections any more right away, though would need to down the line. I think this is probably the best option.
Zokon married to a non-noble kind of closes off that door. It does give Alia that tie, but wouldn't making her his General also do that?

Durgan does have ties to Brevoy. He's from Winterbreak, worked for the Lodovka family for years, is close friends with a Lodovka cousin, is a priest of a respected Brevoy religion, and could potentially have a marriage alliance to the dwarves of House Garess or Glimmergold. While he is a less suitable Ruler than Zokon, I wouldn't have made the suggestion if I thought it was totally unreasonable.

Ah, you custom-tailored him for Brevoy. I thought since we met you south of the stolen lands, you hailed from there. You certainly did mention in-character, but I seem to have passed over those aspects(since I also had no reason to go in-depth yet on the noble houses of Brevoy).

That said, I am afraid they will dislike that...the highest military commander of the nations a foreigner? I could try and usurp the throne with a coup.

You expect that you and Zokon will need to strenghten your own connections down the line, but expect they will give everybody else a pass just for doing a good job in their role?
No, if you guys have to bind yourself to them to the extent that you NEED to make political marriages, then they'll expect even more from those who have no previous ties.
That is my worry. That they push too hard and I have no IC reason to let myself be pushed. If that push never comes, then the question is why you guys need to go to such lenghts to curry favor.

With the individual dukedoms and federal system where everybody gets to rule their little plot of country, I am perfectly happy - no need to marry anybody. If Zokons availability is such a grand asset that we need to keep it for trades, then sure. I would probably be a local ruler for much longer than I could hope to be as a consort.
But in that case, do help come up with a reason why Brevoy will want that Elven Duke nobody "back home" knows to have a high position in government and rule their own corner of the stolen lands. Because I'm struggling - and her bluff is not good enough to bend the knee and get away with that.
(As said, her political view can re-align, but right now, it WOULD be a lie - hence why is was trying to get a party member to cover for her.)

That said, I am afraid they will dislike that...the highest military commander of the nations a foreigner? I could try and usurp the throne with a coup.

Another job, then. It was Zokon who suggested you as General. Whatever suits you.

You expect that you and Zokon will need to strenghten your own connections down the line, but expect they will give everybody else a pass just for doing a good job in their role?

The GM said that Zokon and Durgan are fine for inclusion in the NEW charter right now, but would need to strengthen their connections later on. I expect that the Ruler in particular will have to strengthen their ties, and the others might be encouraged, but not required as long as they are known to be loyal to Zokon and helping the country run better. A big part of a Ruler's job is taking part in political marriages; not so much a part of the job for a Spymaster.

Aside from Zokon, Durgan is the only other person with deep enough ties to present an acceptable (to Brevoy's way of thinking) choice as a ruler...Illthir and Scarlet are mercenaries and perhaps run second in the line of palatable candidates (because people figure they can be bought), everyone else hoping to rule (singularly) a big chunk of land (rather than serve a subservient role to one of the people listed above, or just being mayor of tiny Nowheresburg) will need some sort of in with Brevoy.

So, if in a subservient role (e.g. Magister, Marshal, Treasurer, whatever), you don't need an in with Brevoy. (Or if you are mayor of tiny Nowheresburg.) Loyalty to Zokon is enough. Doing a good job in an Economy role would quiet a lot of criticism.

Could Alia bend the knee to Zokon and hail him as "The King in the Swamp"?

I think the official title should be "Head Cheese" as a call back to Tuskgutter's ultimate fate. Folks should address the ruler of Pizzaland (just spitballing) as "Your Cheesiness". Or maybe "Little Caesar" would be better?

Here is my suggestion:
Zokon as Ruler. Unmarried but making it known he is available to the noblewomen of Brevoy. We keep on the lookout for a non-evil, non-crazy bride from a non-evil, non-crazy family. Nothing but the highest standards for our King!

Other PCs loyal to him, in one of three categories:
1) Job and noble title. This would likely require a political marriage (which need not be loveless or unpleasant). So Durgan might be Duke and Treasurer, with Treasurer being a hereditary position that goes with the Duke title (and thus makes him a desired match). While Zokon is still of questionable status, Durgan having some credibility helps bolster Zokon a bit. Moreso if Durgan finds a match that increases his own status.

2) Just a job, no noble title. Lower profile, and no political marriages expected (because nothing to inherit). In charge of your own portfolio. Just do your job and nobody in Brevoy should mind too much. Some jobs might be better for this category than others.

3) No job, no title, just an adventuring companion. But those who are making political decisions could still ask your input.

If you don't want to deal with a political marriage, then don't have a noble title. You can still be important and influential.

Ruler: Kaiser Zokon Santyev (Cha=>Choose)
Councilor: Illthir Winlowe (Cha or Wis to Loyalty)
General: Scarlet Scarab (Cha or Str to Stability)
Grand Diplomat: Serena Mistcastle (Cha or Int to Stability)
High Priest: Shepherd Jhod Kavken (Cha or Wis to Stability)
Magister: Victoria Velasco (Cha or Int to Economy)
Marshal: Alia of the Blade (Dex or Wis to Economy)
Being in charge of the borders and the more wild lands - this is sort of the "ranger job" - might suit her Kyonin interests and limit conflicts there. Alternatively, Enforcer or Warden are lower-profile positions.
Royal Enforcer: Akiros Ismort (Dex or Str to Loyalty)
Spymaster: Poshment Underhill & Esme, Travelling Player (Dex or Int=>Choose)
Treasurer: Durgan, Duke of Sahnel (Int or Wis => Economy)
Probably the best choice to assure Brevoy that we are being honest in terms of our economic status.
Warden: Kesten Garess (Con or Str => Loyalty)

Zokon opinion here

He hates nobles, they have ostracised him and hurt him all his life, keeping him away from them due to his birth, he hasn't really had a father because of it.

In one story of Zokons which I had omitted here, he did get back into the lifestyle at one stage, when he reached him majority.
he was paraded around as a prize by his father, for political marriage fodder. His mother rescued him from this life.

Him becoming a noble is difficult, BUT he definitely has a hard time with the idea of a political marriage with Brevoy. He knows they will use it and he will not do it without very stringent measures, most likely consisting of an army, spies, magical defences and monitoring a Brevic influences in the kingdom.

It looks like he's the popular choice and he'd accept it if we are going skill based, he's way too much of a liability if we are going stat based, I never expected to be the last man standing of the original caster heavy cha group.

Durgan good explanation, seems he and Zokon need a good sit down and chat, which will probably involve alot of arguing and maybe even yelling at Durgan by Zokon... but we should be able to go forward from there.

Alia it's looking like a political marriage for now is off the table, or at least it can be left hanging seems the wise thing to do.