Wasn't looking to be a crafter myself, so it makes no diff to me... whatever works is fine
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Numalar plans to take Craft Wondrous Item at 3rd level but probably can't afford to take any other crafting feats. I fully assumed that the players would have him churning out things when he can. It would probably be good for someone to take craft arms & armor but it probably won't be me.
I believe that the downtime rules make it possible for players who are not item crafters to generate things during downtime. So in that sense they might be a good idea.
On the other hand they are another set of rules I have to read. ;)
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Moving this from the other thread:
Celyne mentioned that she has seen 4 TPKs when the party ran out and went straight for the bandits.
YMMV. There are likely certain things that make it easier or harder.
If we have some money now and this Bokken can make potions maybe we should see what he has.
If we went after them now they won't expect us to be coming, which is a plus. Not everyone in the party is stealthy but we are fairly quiet I think (3 guys with DEX 18, plus Luna is probably pretty quiet), so we might be able to sneak up on them.
Numalar would be willing to charge in (assuming everyone else is) but if we want to wait I will try to provide RP reasons for doing that.
Downtime rules are fine with me. Not sure if I'll end up taking a craft, but nothing wrong with it.
BRB... Work and taxes.
Here is a link to the Downtime Rules.
It isn't just for crafters. The rules can be used to build/own a tavern, a bakery, an apothecary, etc., whatever you might think would be beneficial and earn you an income. The rules allow for the building of organizations as well, such as thieve's guilds, mercenary companies, etc. So, it goes well beyond just crafting stuff.
We can work through all this together if we choose that it would be fun and beneficial.
Sounds good. We'll find out a way to use the downtime rules then for those that wish to. The only thing is that of course you have to spend a week without adventuring, so you will have to consider that when you decide to take a week of downtime. You wouldn't want to make that decision with the Stag Lord coming after you. :)
Also, I have not changed the map so Oleg's is surrounded by plains a bit. The problem is that in order to 'explore' a hex it requires a full day. So you are basically a few hours travel time to get to a hex and then it would require a full day to explore that hex. So you can't go 'exploring' in a hex and then be back at Oleg's by night. And by exploring, I mean what the adventure requires for you to receive experience for it and also to them later claim that hex to build.
You can, however, just ride out into a hex and then plan on coming back by dark if you wish and just see what you might find out in that hex. But you would want to be careful about finding anything that delays you. I don't think anyone would be happy to return a few hours after dark and find Oleg's a funeral pyre with a dead Oleg and Svetlana inside...
But again, all up to you, just wanting to make sure you understand the distances and such.
Map is here.
Consider this fairly common knowledge on the landscape but you don't know what is contained in a hex. Remember, one hex is about 125 square miles of area.
Can we explore the hex that Oleg's is in and still make it back for dinner?
Yes, but you already explored that hex. I considered that explored and gave you the experience after you did part of the first day you arrived and then the next half-day when you searched for the horses. So, between those two times I was generous and consider that one explored. :)
Okay that makes sense, thank you
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@ KDM - 2 questions:
1. My exploring idea was that we ride out to a neighbouring hex, spend 0.5 days exploring, go back to Oleg's for the night, then repeat on a second day. So if it takes 1 day to explore a hex, we spent two half-days instead. Wouldn't that work?
2. Can Numalar ride a normal horse without penalties? I know the exploration rules are based on party movement rate and Gertrude moves more slowly than horses (40 feet instead of 50). I have seen elsewhere a GM saying that there is no actual rule against a small creature riding a large mount so I figured I would check.
3. Later on when we start buying things Numalar plans to buy a riding dog. It is possible to get a trained wolf instead? (or a different breed of dog with the stats of a wolf?) Again the reason for that is speed; Numalar doesn't want to hold up the party if everyone else has a horse. 1st level small cavaliers can start with a wolf but they are not listed for sale anywhere.
4. Or do you think the movement issue won't be a big deal?
The movement issue will be somewhat of a deal. It could become big depending on circumstances.
1. Sure, that would work, would just take longer and I don't think you'd be able to go much further than 1 hex beyond the hex with Oleg's in it. But at least you could explore those and rest each night at Oleg's.
2. I would say that he can ride one as long as he doesn't have to move too fast or fight in the saddle. In those situations he would suffer minor penalties. I'd also think he would have to have a special saddle made for him.
3. I'm going to say no on the trained wolf. I think most of that comes from character classes that have an affinity with creatures that are not normally domesticated. I don't think that would fit Numalar.
Hope that helps.
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The Irony is that for a small cavalier, Riding Dog becomes an option at 4th level. So wolf is considered inferior to that. Cavaliers are pretty limited in what they can choose as a mount; the other options are all domestic animals.
A riding dog is actually better in combat so I suppose I will stick to that when I can get one.
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Okay, guys, there seems to be a variety of opinions as to our strategy here. So how about we take a quick vote?
1. Dig in and prepare the fort for an assault by the bandits.
2. Patrol around but stick close to the fort.
3. Head straight there and attack while they still don't know about us.
How about a quick vote?
BTW in case you guys forgot we are expecting some soldiers to arrive tomorrow. We could always wait and see if they show up.
Numalar had suggested #2 but he is not tied to that. I think from an RP standpoint he'd prefer to go straight for the bandits but there is some question about whether that is a good idea. Celyne has said that she has played this 4 times and this strategy resulted in a TPK each time. On the other hand, Zokon played that encounter once and the party won.
If we want to go straight there right away then we may still have the element of surprise.
A quick look at how stealthy we are (adjusted for armor check penalties):
Bella -2
Celyne +0
Fronar +7
Luna +7
Numalar +6
Valeska +2
Zokon +7
Fronar, Luna, Numalar and Zokon are all decent at stealth (though nobody is outstanding at it). We could possibly sneak up on them and have the others come in at a specific signal.
Just want to make sure we don't come back to dead bodies, otherwise I'm flexible.
3
2, but I can live with 1.
1, 2, 3 in that order. I can live with any of them
Noooooooo democracy. ..... want to hunt and kill.. not be hunted
Noooooooo democracy. ..... want to hunt and kill.. not be hunted
That's why I'd said study "the approaches" and build a camouflaged hunters shelter. More ambush than hunt, but you can turn the tables of predator/prey. Achieve 1, 2 (stick very close, same hex?) and a variation of 3. Win-Win-Win.
Zokon, Fronar and Luna (777, stealth wise, we got a winner) laying in wait on one side, the rest of us noisy people on the fort side.
Camo shelter might give bonus to Stealth or penalty to their Perception.
Logistically, if there are 12 bandits... Approaching their lair means facing all 12 on their home territory. Letting them come means facing a smaller party that is tasked with investigating... on our turf.
Unfortunately we can't wait ready for them all the time.
Seems like the gameplay thread and this thread are not in agreement.
Can someone please re-cap what it is exactly that you wish to do?
Just for more information, it would be difficult to build effective spots outside the fort to hide and surprise anyone. The fort is in the middle of a hex that is nothing more than small rolling hills and grassland. Now, having said that, some of the grasses get pretty tall so Numalar could hide in them but it would be difficult for the others. Also, anything 'built' would be difficult not to look out of place. Hope that makes sense.
The catapults would be useless against a small force. They are intended for fighting against a large army that is attacking.
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KDM, I don't think we have an agreement yet.
Guys, I don't like the idea of hunkering down in the fort, and here's why:
A. While guarding the fort we won't be earning XP or finding gold and these are the only ways we increase in power. If the problem is that we are not strong enough to deal with the bandits now, we won't gain any strength by staying in the fort.
B. The fort is made mainly of wood. If the bandits attack using alchemists's fire or flaming arrows (they did have alchemist's fire last time), they could set the whole thing on fire and once lit it will be really hard to put out; any building that catches fire that way will probably burn to the ground. So we could risk the whole fort by staying put.
We are still expecting soldiers to arrive soon to help guard the fort. Why don't we see if they arrive and if they do we can work with option 2? That way we will be staying close to the fort and will still be earning XP.
i'll go with that (2) as a comproise
and Bellas ac is wrong on her character sheet, i'm looking to check combat ability etc.
I can work with that Numalar.
No worries Zokon, I'm just not wearing armor atm.
Ok your updating realtime.. kinda..
Just stuck in a moral dilemma.
Care about Oleg and Svetlana's well-being or, no? That's Valeska's only consideration.
If yes, then I vote wait... come what may.
If no, then explore to our hearts' content. If the DM says "don't worry about it", I'm fine too.
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On another note:
On Saturday I leave for a trip to Europe. I expect to have internet access there so I should be able to continue posting regularly, though I will be sightseeing a lot so my frequency may end up being a bit spotty. Hopefully there won't be any particular disruptions.
I will return in two weeks (May 1st).
Thanks. :)
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wow. ever been there before Numalar? Enjoy the vaction.
I will cast my vote for exploring hexes around the fort systematically. The bandits only come 1/month. Probably safe to assume they had other places to "extort" besides this fort. We probably have plenty of time to do "other stuff" before the possibility of retaliation MAY occur.
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Thanks Fronar. I've never been to France before, though I'm going with my birth mother and her family; they have been several times. We will be staying at resorts that are arranged through time share. We've been planning it since last summer. I'm looking forward to it.
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Anyway, Fronar, I noticed you have stopped updating the Party Loot page.
I wanted to get going on selling off the stuff to Oleg and getting gear, etc. So I went ahead and made a loot page by making a new Alias. The loot is in the alias profile: Party Loot
A few things about it:
1. I am assuming everyone who does not have a horse is taking one (only Zokon has a horse in his initial gear). Exploration is based on your land speed. However, if we agree, we could sell them all - they are worth another 425 gp including tack.
2. Numalar will take the amulet for now, since he has the best bluff skill and we might be able to bluff with it. We can sell it after the Stag Lord has been dealt with.
3. We need to decide who will carry the healing potions. Numalar would be happy to carry one, but he already has the shield of faith potion, and it is very likely that if he drinks one of the CL3 potions much of the healing will be "wasted" since they can heal up to 11 HP and Numalar has only 7. My suggestions would be Fronar and Valeska since they will generally be out front.
4. How about we track food for the party all together? We can just buy X amount of provisions and deduct 5.5 per day we are travelling (Numalar doesn't eat as much as everyone else because he is small).
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Just for more information, it would be difficult to build effective spots outside the fort to hide and surprise anyone.
I'm voting for exploring, but how about this: (the relevant bit is at around the 1:08-1:20 mark)
Red DawnSome shovels, burlap, and wood would be all that is necessary.
Anyway KDM, to clarify it looks like we are planning to explore around.
While I love the Red Dawn clip, I would caution a couple of things:
1. You don't have automatic weapons, so ambushes aren't as quick and final as those were.
2. Pay attention to what happens at the 1:32 mark. I would think you would want to avoid the possibility of them rounding up innocents and killing them to flush you out, no?
Otherwise, thanks for the clip and the memories it brought back!
Thanks Fronar. I've never been to France before, though I'm going with my birth mother and her family; they have been several times. We will be staying at resorts that are arranged through time share. We've been planning it since last summer. I'm looking forward to it.
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Anyway, Fronar, I noticed you have stopped updating the Party Loot page.
I wanted to get going on selling off the stuff to Oleg and getting gear, etc. So I went ahead and made a loot page by making a new Alias. The loot is in the alias profile: Party Loot
A few things about it:
1. I am assuming everyone who does not have a horse is taking one (only Zokon has a horse in his initial gear). Exploration is based on your land speed. However, if we agree, we could sell them all - they are worth another 425 gp including tack.
2. Numalar will take the amulet for now, since he has the best bluff skill and we might be able to bluff with it. We can sell it after the Stag Lord has been dealt with.
3. We need to decide who will carry the healing potions. Numalar would be happy to carry one, but he already has the shield of faith potion, and it is very likely that if he drinks one of the CL3 potions much of the healing will be "wasted" since they can heal up to 11 HP and Numalar has only 7. My suggestions would be Fronar and Valeska since they will generally be out front.
4. How about we track food for the party all together? We can just buy X amount of provisions and deduct 5.5 per day we are travelling (Numalar doesn't eat as much as everyone else because he is small).
Just remember on the selling things that Oleg only has 200gp of money at the moment that he can give you, so anything more than that you will have to hold on to for a week before he gets more cash on hand. Also, buying anything other than the most mundane of items will take about a week for Oleg to travel to Restov to make the purchase or you travel yourself. And then it's not a foregone conclusion that it will be available right away.
Just want to remind you of the remoteness of the location and that there aren't just ready-made markets of magical and rare goodies all around the Greenbelt. :)
Have a wonderful trip!!!
I like the idea of trading for later credit when he does have more stuff... It gives him more to trade/sell to others for now, and gives us something to trade with in the future without being weighed down by trade goods or gold... and perhaps gives us a bit more goodwill from Oleg as well.
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1. You don't have automatic weapons, so ambushes aren't as quick and final as those were.
We should have brought a gunslinger! :)
Obviously we don't have a way to put an enemy down as fast as that, but if they are coming at us it might be a way to get Numalar close enough to use burning hands. The main problem I see with him in a defense of the fort is that he would mostly just be using his crossbow, which isn't terrible but certainly doesn't play to his strengths. An arrow duel doesn't do a whole lot for us, though with the cover of the walls we would probably still have an advantage.
The camp is several miles south in the Narlmarch Wood. They travel several miles north along a game trail that sticks fairly close to the Thorn River. At a point they diverge from there and head northeast where they exit the forest. They then move over the plains to the trading post. Of course, he has only done this with them one time a few days ago.
Their camp is very close to the Thorn River.
It is near that bend in the Thorn River in the hex that is two hexes into the wood diagonal southwest from the hex that contains Olegs. I'll show on the map on Monday when I get a chance.
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So they go through the open hex to the west? That makes sense. We could perhaps explore that hex first. If we can find the trail where they come out of the forest, we could consider making an ambush site there.
A couple of questions about the map:
1. Are the hexes where the road is considered explored already? And are they within the Kingdom of Brevoy or are they part of the Stolen Lands?
2. I assume the "boundaries" of the charter are represented by the map itself, rather than the text of the charter itself? I know there has been discussion of this on the forums, since on the map the compass rose points slightly to the left of upwards.
3. If that is the case, does it include the "partial" hexes? There are some hexes along the east side of the map that are only about 3/4 on the map. Are they part of our "exploration territory"?
While we are at it, a couple questions about the loot:
4. I assume the horses are not combat trained. Is this correct?
5. Did they have saddlebags?
Answers:
1. The hexes with the road are part of Brevoy, basically the southern boundary of Brevoy.
2. Yes, the map is boundary of the charter.
3. Yes, it does include the partial hexes.
4. Horses are not combat trained, no.
5. No, they did not have saddlebags.
Hope that helps!
Hope you are enjoying France, Numalar!
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Thanks, yeah, France is great so far.
Anyway, #4 & 5 mean my Party Loot page is correct and up to date.
It looks like we will be looking for Bokken tomorrow. We plan to head out there and then return for the night. If possible we will explore half the hex in that day and then we can return another day to explore the other half. I know that some hexes take multiple days to explore, depending on terrain, so we're just doing the same regarding a plains hex.
BTW, Oleg has yet to respond to my "store credit" proposal or the inquiry about provisions. I don't want to keep bugging him in RP unless he has legitimately forgotten that we asked.
Guys, do you want to track party provisions together or separately? We found 10 days worth on the bandits, which doesn't divide by 6 evenly, sadly. If we want to track them together then everyone can just add their own supply to the total. A day's worth of trail rations is 1 sp so not a big deal.
right now, rather than store credit, we could use some cash - or trade goods that Oleg knows that Bokken would need - supplies or whatever.
Thanks, yeah, France is great so far.
Anyway, #4 & 5 mean my Party Loot page is correct and up to date.
It looks like we will be looking for Bokken tomorrow. We plan to head out there and then return for the night. If possible we will explore half the hex in that day and then we can return another day to explore the other half. I know that some hexes take multiple days to explore, depending on terrain, so we're just doing the same regarding a plains hex.
BTW, Oleg has yet to respond to my "store credit" proposal or the inquiry about provisions. I don't want to keep bugging him in RP unless he has legitimately forgotten that we asked.
Guys, do you want to track party provisions together or separately? We found 10 days worth on the bandits, which doesn't divide by 6 evenly, sadly. If we want to track them together then everyone can just add their own supply to the total. A day's worth of trail rations is 1 sp so not a big deal.
Sorry, I thought I did answer for Oleg that he was ok with setting up an account and working with you.
You can assume that Oleg has at least a couple of weeks worth of rations for you on hand at the moment. He can buy more when he gets a chance.
Updated the Unexplored Greenbelt Map above to show the general location of the Bandit camp. The black 1 represents the camp. Hope that helps.
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Okay, we have moved on to the next day.
Can I assume that we have sold the goods we did not want? The total value according to Loot was equal to 258.6 gp. So I am assuming that Oleg gave us 200 gp and we have 58.6 gp in "store credit."
Guys, if we are dividing up the gold we get six ways that means everybody gets a total of 50 gp. If we are going to try to account for the various things people picked up it gets more complex.
Who is carrying the healing potions?
Non healers should have potions so if a healer goes down we can use them on them or others.
I think we should have a party fund and it gets dolled out as needed, we are a team after all and should work like one.