So what you are saying is Sprite Barbarian? Tinkerbell Smash?
Maybe look for something based on mounted combat :p
As a Tiny creature, a sprite PC weighs so little and takes up so little Bulk that it doesn't cause issues to hitch a ride in a sack, shoulder, or other position on another PC. However, the amount of coordination required to ensure you don't get in each other's way or jostle each other into losing actions makes this tactic unfavorable for most fellow adventurers during combat. If you're riding along with another PC or similar non-minion intelligent creature, roll both your initiatives and use the lower of the two results. You act in either order on the same initiative count. While traveling in this way, you each gain two actions at the start of your turn, instead of three, since they spend one action keeping you balanced on their back, and you spend one action maintaining your grip.
Can as well get a Corgi Mount then and not impair someone elses actions :)
Sir Lance-a-Little could of course give Tinkersmash a run for their money.
I just think a tiny bard could be fun, because they can't use the bards primary strategy of dealing with opposition(romance&breed) as easily.
Unless, of course...
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So, you cool with a Sprite Bard?
^_^
(it's all on Nethys, just in case...)
If that's what you want to play? Sure. I'm assuming that you've at least glanced at the AP's player's guide, so you should have an idea of what sorts of characters are suitable, and that you're also aware of the sorts of challenges a sprite would face in melee combat.
If you go with a sprite, are you from the region immediately around Otari, like Varuzhan's character is? If that's the case, feel free to work out with him whether or not your characters are acquainted with each other. (I'm giggling at the mental image of your sprite hitching a ride on his crocodile companion whenever you need to do some serious traveling.)
@Nezari: Come, join us on the Dark Side, we have cookies and a group you're already familiar with :D. Did I mention the cookies?
@Mordred: I don't know what's worse, that you're familiar enough with that particular series to reference it, or that I recognize it myself.
Free Archetypes
I've looked over the Free Archetype optional rule, along with some threads about it in actual use. Since I'm personally a fan of rules options that allow you to get your character just right according to what you envision, I'll allow it, as follows:
You can pick whatever archetype you'd like. Now I'm not familiar with every possible archetype currently available, so if there's any that are restricted by regional origin, race, or organizational membership, you're restricted from picking those unless you meet the requirement.
You need to meet any prerequisites that your archetype feats have (this one should be common sense, but I mention it just to be absolutely clear).
You need to have whatever mandatory minimum number of feats your archetype requires before switching out to another one.
The number of feats that scale based on how many archetype feats you have is limited to half your character level.
Background
As a campaign bonus, I will allow your character to have two backgrounds, one chosen specifically from the AV player's guide and one generic. One of these backgrounds will be your primary and grant the full benefit. The other is your secondary and grants only the skills and skill feat.
If your combination of class and backgrounds all grant the trained proficiency rank in the same skill, you only get to swap out for the trained proficiency rank in a new skill once (as per the core rules for a single background).
If your character is from Otari or the surrounding region, you can pick which background is your primary and which is the secondary. If your character from elsewhere, then the AV background is default secondary, and I'll work with you to explain why you might be in possession of any Otari-specific background elements (though that only appears to be a pair of Lore skills, Otari Lore and Roseguard Lore).
Please note on your character sheet which is the primary and which is the secondary.
@Varuzhan: This means your lizardman can have whatever background you replaced with Scout.
Other Alternate Rules
If you all agree, and I'll need a unanimous decision on this one because of how it affects class HP, I'll also use the optional rules for Stamina and Resolve. If these rules are approved, then Mordred in particular might want to want check out the options this will make available to his sprite bard.
Ability Scores
I'm going with a slight variation of the bog-standard "Roll 4d6 six times and drop the lowest result" rule for ability scores. You still roll six times and drop the lowest result, but any result of 1 is a free reroll.
@Varuzhan: Your lizardman's scores don't look outrageous, so I'll give you the option of keeping them as is or rerolling here.
Starting Origin
As I mentioned in another post, I would like at least one or two characters to be from elsewhere, preferably from Absalom. This is because I have a vague idea for something to do after the AP is concluded (it's only 11 levels worth of advancement), and this builds off of how those outsiders ended up in Otari to begin with.
That said, however, I'm not about to be that one GM in this regard (or, at least, not for my first shot in the role. Save that for later :D), and if you all want to start in the area, that's fine too.
Addendum to the above post, specifically the Absalom starting origin and continuing after the AP is done with.
If the AP is finished and nobody is interested in continuing on, I do have a second choice available. I'm strongly considering the 2e version of the beefy Kingmaker AP (just got to save my pennies for it).
I think it's not super worth to stress about part two. Pbp aren't terribly fast :p (And I'm sure we can all chip in if needed too!)
But if you want someone from that area that's a request we should probably be able to accommodate still.
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Pouring over the player's guide it is mildly worrying to see that the astronomer dislikes corners. Now that's never a good sign :p
Pouring over the player's guide it is mildly worrying to see that the astronomer dislikes corners. Now that's never a good sign :p
Now, now, I'm absolutely sure that there are no errant Hounds of any sort that might make use of corners. Well, not as long as there's no time travel shenanigans going on.
>.>
I'll be a construction worker. With my trusty bucket of everflowing cement I'll make every square corner we find round!
In terms of secondary AV backgrounds, I'll wait to see what others take before selecting mine. I've taken up enough creative space with my early submission.
I'll go with the flow and roll some stats!
Wow, that's damn good. Are you using these rules such that there are racial and background ability boosts? I think Rik'Tik would end up with some pretty busted stats.
So, I was frustrated with every other martial being fighter but worse, so I decided to check spellcasters.
Pocket Library.
+1 to your recall knowledge check, for a 1st level spell slot.
What.
We used to call that guidance. It worked on every skill check. It worked on your friends. You could cast it as many times per day as you wanted.
But wait, it gets better! If you want, you could spend a 9th level spell slot, to get +4 to your skill check.
When in the old days, a 9th level spell was more than enough to f$#$ing ask the gods directly what the answer to your question was.
I... This edition is giving me emotional damage.
When trying to make a list of spells for a caster I want it goes "Electric Arc, cause that's great and it's better than most actual spells that deal damage, the ole utility cantrips in Message, Mage Hand, Presti, Light, Detect Magic, are all still great, and Shield as a cantrip is pretty interesting. Then for first level spells, Magic Weapon, cause it's a solid buff that makes the Fighter shred everything. Grease is still taking names. And. Um. Er. ..."
At least Divination keeps up the habit of having terrible bonus spells at early levels but bonkers amazing school abilities. That's a spot of comfort.
@Nezari: I can almost see a vein throbbing in your forehead as I read your thoughts on various classes :D. You sound like you're just one more analysis away from tearing off all of your clothing and running naked through your house while shrieking about how 2e is just a reskinned 4th edition :D.
@Varuzhan: I can only plead reading and posting at F*@$ O'clock in the morning, after a long and tedious night of editing tokens, as my reason for having entirely missed everything that you linked to. I'm so accustomed to, when it isn't point buy, using 4d6 as the default to generate scores that I foolishly assumed it was the default here as well.
Ability Scores Addendum
As 4d6 is the optional method here, then I'll stick with the suggested restrictions as well. So one fewer free boost from ancestry, and one fewer boost from background, no starting scores above 18, boosts that would raise a score above 18 can be reassigned as though free boosts or assigned to a score of 17 to raise it to 18 (with the excess lost).
(I don't mind powerful player characters, but that's just a bit much there :D.)
For not taking shameless advantage of something that I would have completely overlooked, I summarily award your lizardman a prize of one free minor (1d8) healing potion. Note that on your sheet.
I think the true power of Pocket Library is the style points for having a book magically appear :D
(Also the fact that it is pre-castable and manipulates the outcomes a bit; it's +5 if you really screw up. Not quite sure what the extra bit of info threshold is in 2e...)
I looked at rogue. Maybe skill monkeys have their own niche.
Why is Plant Evidence a feat?
Why isn't that just part of Thievery?
Why is its prerequisite, Pickpocket, a feat?
Why isn't that just part of Thievery?
Things not included in Thievery: Stealing things out of pockets.
Things included in Thievery: Stealing things out of pouches.
Because those are vastly immeasurably different things that is worth being super detailed about, in this edition about SIMPLIFYING things and making them flow better.
It is a legitimate question from your players "Now, does the villain wear pants with pockets, or does he use pouches? I can't steal from pockets because I didn't take that feat."
You should feel pain that "whether the villain has pants pockets" is a legitimate question your Adventure Path should include details on.
So many classes I look at, it really feels like they went
"Ok, we're gonna give each class a core cool ability."
"Awesome."
"Now, what do we put in the feat sections?"
"A feat that lets someone make two attacks if they're a martial. And if they're a caster, the basic metamagics."
"Good start. What else?"
"We have no other ideas."
It is a legitimate question from your players "Now, does the villain wear pants with pockets, or does he use pouches? I can't steal from pockets because I didn't take that feat."
You should feel pain that "whether the villain has pants pockets" is a legitimate question your Adventure Path should include details on.
Lol, this is comedy gold. Nezari could do her own stand-up routine on Pathfinder 2e!
@Nezari: Would you like to skip all of the headaches and just roll up stats for Mordred's riding corgi :D? I assume that carrying around a wee bard and savaging any ankles in reach will be a lot less stressful. Plus, you'll be able to pee on things!
My current plan is to play a crotchety old lady, and trying to figure out which class would make that the funniest.
Started with witch, the classic, but then I was thinking rogue would be very funny to have an old grandma creep up beside people and bonk them over the head with her cane.
--
But yes, what this has inspired me to do, is keep working on my "feat rework of 2E", where just, all the feats offer you fun options with flavorful feat names.
For example, this would be my idea of a Level 1 Barbarian feat.
Doom of Kharnak, (Risky Strike)
Feat 1
"So Kharnak roared to the heavens, to any god that would hear his voice, that he would pay any price to slay Garmut. The heavens answered with a bolt of lightning and his blade shattered when next it met claw, the shards claiming both their lives."
Barbarian, Strike
1 action, make a strike and roll three times to hit. You may choose any of the dice rolled to resolve the Strike, but if any are a natural 1, you suffer your strike's damage after resolving the Strike.
Or for example, when I take an existing feat and rework it to do what I thought the name was going to imply, of an interesting new option.
Haste of Mardun, (Adrenaline Rush)
"So swift were the feet, so quick were the thoughts, so fast were the blades of Mardun the Trickster, that only in his sleep could Death catch him."
Feat 1
Barbarian, Rage, Focus
As a Free Action, you may gain 1 Action. At the end of your turn gain Slowed 1 for one turn. (Usual stuff about gaining a Focus point and spending a focus point to use)
vs the original.
Adrenaline Rush
Feat 1
Barbarian, Rage
In the heat of battle, you are capable of amazing feats of strength. While you are raging, increase your encumbered and maximum Bulk limits by 2; you also gain a +1 status bonus to Athletics checks to lift heavy objects, Escape, and Force Open.
Every feat should be something you're excited to consider as an option, not something that you go, "Oh yeah, I remember now, I have +1 status bonus to leave my lover's arms while raging."
The only base level one feats for Barbarian I would include unchanged would be Sudden Charge (simple, versatile, thematic, the one Barbarian feat I'm 100% on board with) and Moment of Clarity (not something I would probably ever take personally, but hey, there's a Barbarian Wizard out there somewhere).
Raging Intimidation gets a special dishonorable mention for "why the f!@@ does it take a feat for me to being allowed to frighten people as a frothing raging barbarian?"
I have to admit a whole new level of appreciation for your GM work, Mordred. Knowing that you put in work is one thing, but actually doing some of that work yourself really drives the point home.
Only 30 tokens left to convert from the box, after which I need to figure out how to make custom tokens for four monsters that aren't in any of the my available pawn sets. The tokens aren't as pretty as the ones from a VTT, but they'll do the work well enough from my testing.
Following that, I can do a bit of work on the maps and tokens needed for the first chapter of the AP; because this is going to be a somewhat slow-paced game, I should be able to grind along on the materials for the subsequent chapters long before they're actually needed.
@Nezari: Crotchety old lady, huh? I'm now unable to picture anything but a fantasy analogue of Betty White, old and not nearly as fit as the younger set, but still fit enough to f*@# your s~~* up if she has to. She comes off as dotty old bat, but it's (mostly, to be fair) just a ruse to lull people into not recognizing her as a legitimate threat. The textbook example of the adage "old age and treachery beat youth and enthusiasm."
Ideas!)
I looked a bit at psychic and monk and/or a mix of both. Not quite sure how it'll work out if at all. But maybe :p
Then I saw that there's a kinetecist playtest out in the wild! (Well technically it ended a few months ago and the actual book only comes in about half a year :p)
At first glance it looked awesome. And second glance too. Once I've played a bit more 2e I'm sure some glaring flaws will appear ... At least from the entire thing being 70% reworked on release :p
But if you don't mind I'd love to give it a shot ...
Basic things as Feats)
Yeah... That's a flaw pathfinder always had and still has it seems. Inherited from 3e dnd no doubt. Wish they could just put such things as expanded rules instead of "oh with this splatbook handstands are now a feat!" :p
Adrenaline Rush)
One of those does more things, the other does uhh heavier things? Lifting and throwing things is pretty cool ... though I guess that's just really a less useful str bonus yeah.
Somewhere earlier, Sam asked about whether to use the Stamina and Resolve alternate rules. I think they sound great, except I would want healing magic to be able to restore stamina as well as hit points, because I see no reason to nerf healing. I don’t feel strongly about the healing bit, just throwing it out there.
@Miranda: If you can source the material you'd be working from, with the understanding that it may face revision if/as needed to come in line with the final form, I'd not have a problem with that.
So, provisionally, we have lizardman ranger, sprite bard, some manner of prototype kineticist, and Nezari who mostly definitely doesn't want to play 2e but keeps looking up things to play :p.
Leaving aside Nezari for the moment, it sounds like we could use at least one more player, and the roles of healer and sneaky skill monkey to fill. (I also wouldn't say no to another person swinging a weapon effectively.)
While I would be willing to fill out one of these roles with a DMPC, I admit that I don't feel entirely confident playing such a character and not having GM knowledge leak into their actions.
@Varuzhan: The sidebar for Stamina actually addresses why Stamina isn't covered by standard healing means. My understanding of the system is that Stamina is supposed to allow the use of something that functions similar to hit points, but trades the typically resource-draining immediate recovery method of healing spells/items for no/low cost recovery over time outside of battle.
But if SP can be restored like hit points, then they are effectively are hit points, and there's no point to using them to begin with.
Mind, if the system proves too inconvenient to use in actual practice, I have no problem pulling it and giving everyone their normal HP values back.
Regarding that particular series: I see you are a man of culture, as well.
And I cannot only reference it, I could fetch some of them from storage, because I did get actual physical copies of them :)
It was oh so wrong and oh so right.
That said I admit I had no time to check the players guide yet, I just glanced over the options to let my unconscious mind wander and consider what kind of stuff I might be doing...and got kind of mentally locked into Sprite.
So I'll have to see how I'll fit in there.
If there is a clear lack of a role, I may also try and make that work, I am mostly locked into sprite, not totally locked into a class yet. So yeah, if we need more frontline, that Corgi-Cavalier is totally a thing. And if we need healing, I can totally make a Oracle of Yog-Sothoth - I'll go fully non-euclidean for the changer of ways the party.
Also @Boros: Thanks regarding the GM stuff - main problem for me was that I always used the AP's or modules as rough guidelines and changed so much about them, adding long-running sub-plots and other stuff. Much of that does not translate well from a table-game, simply for the time-frame. What was "2 or 3 sessions ago" on a table is months of time in pbp, in the best case.
Technically, anyone can function as a healer with the Healing Touch Champion Archetype feat! But waiting till level 4 to get your healer is a little iffy.
And, as funny as it would be to be a rogue, I think I've settled on a backstory of:
"Former witch who abandoned her patron when the price of power became too high, now she's slowly learned magic the old fashioned way." Aka, wizard.
And, yes, you've got me pegged. I'll give it another shot. At the very least, as the proper scientist would do, hypothesis must be tested by experiment. Repeatedly, because you probably messed up the experiment the first three times.
So, we've got 7, 9, 11, 12, 17, 14.
Hmm. I'm glad Wizards only need one stat.
Regarding that particular series: I see you are a man of culture, as well.
And I cannot only reference it, I could fetch some of them from storage, because I did get actual physical copies of them :)
It was oh so wrong and oh so right.
Physical copies, huh? I humbly bow before your greater degenerate weeb status :p.
Anyway, I reached out to two other former players in this campaign, and they've both expressed an interest in playing. That brings us up to 5 players confirmed, and whatever Nezari eventually decides. So don't give up that dream of a sprite bard just yet, Mordred!
I've invited them here for the moment until I can get around to getting a proper campaign forum up on my end. [And beg your continued indulgence in that regard as well.)
Edit: Okay, I see Nezari has committed, that's 6 players and the party is filled.
Re source - Here! Still available from paizo :)
Re changing - Hopefully nothing too major gets altered for the worse. There's elementalist wizards/pshychic cantrip spammers that could come close ... But we'll see!
I promise to change and fall in line. But not without a little complaining :p
Re sprites - It is one of those cool "oooh I can have this?!" things of 2e. 100% of my characters (one :p) have been sprites so far. That said, I'm not sure if either of you can be trusted with them >.> :p
Re character - Suppose I need to see what the rng gods gift me with before making any concrete plans...
-> 13
-> 13 15
-> 9
-> 12
-> 9
-> 15
Not great, not eye watering terrible. Glad we get some characteristic boosts at least to patch the worst holes :p
Miranda, when you reroll all of your results of 1 when getting your attributes, that includes any reroll result of 1 as well.
Same should be true for Nezari then :)
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Hello hello! I'm here to play 2e! I don't know a thing about 2e!
Anyway, it's nice to see you all, some of you again after a long time. Thanks for having me along for the ride.
I'm taking a look at character creation now. Since I'll be negotiating a whole new set of rules, I'm thinking I'll go with a simple character character class to reduce the learning curve, maybe a human fighter or whatever is easy to keep track of and play.
I'm certainly open to character suggestions from anyone who has some experience with 2e rules, classes, and archetypes.
And I suppose I should go ahead and do the rolls.
= 16
= 13
= 11
13
= 13
= 17
That's pretty darn good!
Hey again. Fun to have you here :)
If we need a healer, there's no reason I can't pick up healing by level 2 with Blessed One.
Okey, 9 goes to 10.
The healing is actually one of the reasons why I was looking at the Stamina rules. If the party can take a breather and recover depleted stamina between fights, healing should be a bit less of a must-have, and someone could (in theory) handle it in an off-role like what Nezari is proposing.
Of course, actual practice might prove otherwise and it's dependent on the rules being accepted for use.
The way Focus works, as long as one person has lay on hands, you can regen to full between every fight with little trouble. It's only 10 minutes to refresh the heal, and most classes get a Level 12 feat to regen 2 focus per Refocus.
I don't think the skill heal is terrible in 2e either. But not sure!
Re Monks
Monks look very cool. I glanced at the monk Dedication but tbh I think most of the fun monk stuff is in the class rather then steal-able. That is the qi power scaling, unarmoured ac bonus and flurry of flailing.
The focus power stances also looked shiny, had them as fallbacks for kineticist. And Ki Blast!
Re Me
It'll probably be a reach or range build somehow (all three options I looked at were similar in that aspect). Probably changeling, since they're not tied to charisma boosts anymore which is neat!
Psychic is tempting again since it is the most single attribute dependent but I'm fairly sure some wind blasting will work out!
Maybe Kineticist with Psychic dedication? Unsure. But ...
Re archetypes
It seems to be that they only "activate"/are selected at level 2? Most of them at least; saw like one with level 1 abilities (elementalist iirc?). So not sure how much we need to think about them other then to have a vague idea.
Got the tokens and maps from the box done, got the tokens and maps from the early side content done, onward to the actual AP's materials!
Also, I have come to loathe Adobe Acrobat with the white-hot intensity of a thousand suns. I remember when Acrobat was actually a great program to use for doing things in a PDF. But now as soon as you try to do s+&!, like add a custom bookmark, they tell you all about how you can access that feature for a yearly subscription of only $240 dollars (or $360 if you pay month-by-month).
F!~%. That. S@+*. If it were a one-and-done price of $20-$30? I'd consider it. But a subscription? Hell no, I absolutely refuse to validate such unmitigated greed. And I suspect that, even if I could dig up an old version of the software that wasn't packed full of malware, I would probably get stuck with some "upgrade to the newest version" nag notice that would stop me from doing anything.
Fortunately, I've found what looks to be a great alternative called PDF24.
Anyway, on to other things.
@RD: Play whatever tickles your fancy that you also feel comfortable running. Though if you go with the latter rogue build, I might have a plothook to get you to Otari (assuming you don't start there, that is).
@Miranda: The starter box should bring the party up to 2nd level at the conclusion, so you probably want to think about it fairly early on.
Ugh, sometimes I love those interactive maps, but right now I'm loathing them. Trying to extract a copy of a map that has the text layer intact AND is reasonably sized to actually make out (or use as a tactical map) without the resolution turning to smeared s&+~ is a pain in the ass.
On the good side, though, I found this nifty homemade image extractor tool (made someone who played PF, no less) that does some neat stuff, especially with regards to making clean, token-worthy images. That alone should speed things up nicely.
Unfortunately, generating an extracted image with the text layer isn't one of those things (or, if it is, I haven't figured out how).
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@Sam: I'm agnostic on the question of being from Otari or not. If playing Rogue I figure getting to Otari from elsewhere, probably Absalom, is simple to explain. Some variation on a crime gone wrong so needed to leave town for awhile will do. But, if you have something in mind, I'm game.
I'd like to double check to make sure I have the number of ability score boots I'm applying correct:
Ancestry: +2 (any score, Human)
Background: +2 (one of the two listed scores)
Class: (+2 Primary class ability)
Free: +2x4 (on any ability scores)
No multiple boosts on a single ability score from the same source.
No Stat above 18.
Is this all correct?
The rolled-for-stats removes a lot of boosts (since you'd otherwise start from all 10s). See Sams post near the start of the page or here. Fairly sure you only get [ancestry boosts -1] and one of your background boosts.
Hi everyone, nice to see y'all again :) Mordred, thanks for letting us camp out here in discussion for a bit. Sam, thanks for running this game.
14
15
17
15
13
12
I don't know much about 2e, but this seems doable!
So we have:
* rdknight: rogue (possibly)
* Miranda: reach/range changeling, psychic or kineticist (possibly)
* Nezari: wizard
* Mordred: sprite corgi-rider (frontliner) or oracle of Yog-Sogoth (healer)
* Varuzhan: Lizardfolk ranger
I'm not familiar with 2e enough to understand what all these classes do. What do you think we're missing in terms of roles? Perhaps a healer? Maybe a frontliner? What roles duplicate well? Like, is it a good idea to have two textbooks, or two frontliners, or more than one healer?
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Hi Fighting Chicken, welcome to the struggle for understanding! It's all a lot to take in quickly. Here's what I can pass on, for better or worse. Hopefully I understand correctly what I've learned so far, and it's at least of some use.
1. I am settled on a Rogue with the thief racket, so I'll be about as close to a 1st ed. Rogue as they come.
2. We have a Wizard, so if we also have a Bard, arcane and occult magic is covered. That leaves no divine or wild caster. I haven't looked at Druid, because my understanding of AV is that it's dungeon crawly so maybe Druid/wild magic is a lesser concern(?). Probably a divine caster could be an asset aside from healing. There are several flavors of it though.
3. Clerics are either like a warpriest or a wizard. Cleric doesn't automatically come with armor and weapons anymore. Champion is the reworked Paladin, with more alignments possible. Similar I think in being tanky and defensive. Sorcerers also now have divine magic options.
4. My feeling is that, like with 1st ed., if there are redundancies in the party's abilities the better ones will be in martial ability. Maybe a martial class or a warpriest type cleric with good charisma for the extra healing slots is a good choice for a 6th character?
Heya! I hope everything is well! And welcome back to the channel :P
Oh, questions have been asked and are in need of answering? Alrighty, let me see if I can do this part right ;p!
@RD: Miranda is correct, but I'm typing out the following as much for my own understanding as proper clarification of what you're asking.
Base rules are as follows:
Ability scores start with at base 10.
Choose your ancestry, apply +2 boost to both of the two specified abilities, apply +2 boost to one additional ability of your choice, apply -2 penalty to the specified ability. Alternatively, you may choose a variant ancestry by forgoing the assigned boosts and flaw, and instead applying +2 boost to two scores of your choice and no flaw. (This isn't an optional or house rule, by the way. It's a standard rule listed in a sidebar on page 26 of the Core book as a player's choice variation.)
Choose your background, apply +2 boost to one of the two specified abilities, apply +2 boost to one additional ability of your choice.
Choose your class, apply +2 boost to the specified key ability only; the listed secondaries only indicate what other ability scores that class finds beneficial.
Apply +2 boost to four ability scores of your choice.
So that's all the standard method.
The optional 4d6 method goes as follows:
Roll 4d6 six times and drop the lowest result of each roll (with a house rule that any result of 1 is rerolled; this includes any reroll result of 1).
Choose your ancestry, apply +2 boost to the two specified abilities, apply -2 penalty to the specified ability. Alternatively, you may choose a variant ancestry by forgoing the assigned boosts and flaw, and instead applying +2 boost to one ability of your choice and no flaw.
Choose your primary background, apply +2 boost to one of the two specified abilities.
The End.
In either case, you're capped to a 1st-level maximum of 18 in any ability score.
It's not possible for the standard generation method to force a starting score beyond 18 in any score at first level, but because a set of really good rolls under the optional method could do so, the optional method also has the following addendum:
If a boost to a specified score would raise it above 18, you may instead reassign it at full (+2) value to any ability of your choice under 17, or to any ability of your choice with a score 17 to raise it to 18 and lose the excess.
And, for the sake of completeness--because it will be relevant eventually (unless you die horribly in some encounter, of course :p)--at 5th character level, and every 5 levels thereafter, you get a boost to the ability score of your choice. If the chosen score is 18 or higher, it increases by +1. If the chosen score is lower than 18, it increases by +2.
@RD: Since you're confirmed for your rogue but undecided on where you want to start, I'll be sending you a DM to set up some background to your liking.
@Chicken: I've said it before, but don't worry about filling a role. Play what you find interesting to play. I mean, it's obviously going to be an issue on my end if you all show up with spell-heavy squishies. But I'll do my best to adjust.
That said, Mordred was pondering sprite bard first, and I haven't seriously heard otherwise in that regard.
RD is correct in that delving forms a significant portion of the AP's area, so a druid might seem a poor choice at first consideration. However, there will still be surface-level action happening at points, and don't forget that subterranean environments need druid love just as much as any other :D. Finally, what's brewing up in the AP definitely won't give two s!!@s about the balance of nature and, even before the AP's events properly involve the party, is having an effect on the region in the form of things displaced up and out into the wilderness. That's something druids will be interested in for sure.
Hey, all :)
Welcome back, I suppose :D In a way, at least.
And yeah, my "locked" thing was Sprite.
I was kinda flexible about the rest.
Hey Boros - if I'm a sprite from the far north, can I get Mammoth Lord Archetype and ride a T-Rex? ^_^
So 17, 16, 15, 14, 13 and 11 as starting values. That seems quite doable.
Luminous Sprite is a regular Sprite Ancestry, right? Or does that count as variant? In which case I would stay vanilla.
+2 Dex, +2 Int, -2 Str
Still checking with the Backgrounds, but I will definitely want something to give +2 Cha if going Bard.
So that would result in - just to get that out of the way:
Str - 13-2 = 11
Dex - 15+2 = 17
Con - 17 = 17
Int - 14+2 = 16
Wis - 11 = 11
Cha - 16+2 = 18
Luminous Sprite is a regular Sprite Ancestry, right? Or does that count as variant? In which case I would stay vanilla.
At first level, you choose a heritage. That is one of the heritages listed. So I don't see any issue.
Also, no. Unless they make T-rexes in toy or teacup sizes, you ain't getting one of those into most of the places you'll be going. Plus, stabling will be an utter b$@~+ to arrange, not least of which because of the poop.
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Huh, so no boost for class at 1st level, and only 1 boost at 5th, 10th, 15th, etc. instead of 4 boosts. Unless one rolls very well indeed, how is this supposed to produce stronger characters?
Comparing my rolled start to the regular process, I'm ahead by one boost right now, or a total of +20 (10 boosts) rather than the regular 9 for +18 (Odd scores don't matter since they can only be boosted by +2, so my 13s are the same as 12s). By 5th level I'm no longer ahead by 1 boost, but instead behind by by 2 boosts. With every future boost I fall even farther behind.
Am I thinking about this wrong? If I'm not, how does rolling ever produce stronger characters than the regular system outside of an exceptional set of rolls?
Huh, so no boost for class at 1st level, and only 1 boost at 5th, 10th, 15th, etc. instead of 4 boosts. Unless one rolls very well indeed, how is this supposed to produce stronger characters?
Comparing my rolled start to the regular process, I'm ahead by one boost right now, or a total of +20 rather than +18 (Odd scores don't matter since they can only be boosted by +2, so my 13s are the same as 12s). By 5th level I'm no longer ahead by 1 boost, but instead behind by by 2 boosts. With every future boost I fall even farther behind.
Am I thinking about this wrong? If I'm not, how does rolling ever produce stronger characters than the regular system outside of an exceptional set of rolls?
Just to clarify this, if needed. The 5-10-15-20 boosts--and their granted values and restrictions--happen regardless of which generation method is used. I mentioned them for the sake of completeness, for anyone who wants to plan ahead.
As far as I can tell, the difference between the two generation methods is that the standard is a spread of guaranteed numbers, with your best being whatever is key to your class. Oh, and no possibility of odd-numbered ability scores until you get your first level-based ability score boost.
Rolled trades that certainty for the potential of really good starting results and the concurrent risk of really bad ones (which is the reason why I instituted the "reroll all 1s" addition).
Under the standard method, as a human rogue of indeterminate background, and assuming you pump your key score to the maximum, followed by a high secondary and then an average secondary, you'd look like something like this:
18
16
14
10
10
10
After rolling, you ended up with:
17
16
13
13
13
11
To this, you would add +2 any (ancestry) and +2 specific (background), which I'm assuming you would assign to key maximum and average secondary to keep a relatively balanced array, for a final result of:
18
17
15
13
13
11
So as far as I can tell, you (personally) actually aren't any worse off in this case. Your future level-based boosts are the same either way and would produce the same bonuses if assigned to the same scores as you get them.
I went with 4d6 because it's familiar--instinctively so, even, since I assumed it was still the default--and because it does (especially with my change) offer a better-than-average chance of notable positive rolls. And under that method, Miranda and Nezari almost certainly did get hosed on their results. So if they (or anyone else, for that matter) request it, I'll let them trade the entirety of their rolled results for the standard method instead; I want you all to be having a good time, not fretting over your (lack of) numbers.
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Oh, okay. If the future boosts remain the same either way that changes things immensely.
I was comparing this:
Ability Boosts Level 5
At 5th level and every 5 levels thereafter, you boost four different ability scores. You can use these ability boosts to increase your ability scores above 18. Boosting an ability score increases it by 1 if it’s already 18 or above, or by 2 if it starts out below 18.
to when you mentioned it in the earlier post as a single boost each time instead of four. By 20th level that would be 12 fewer boosts.
If the changes are limited to character creation only then it's much easier to do better. I did a better myself, equivalent to 2 extra boosts. It's easier to see when odd numbers are eliminated since they are meaningless. I have to boost a 13 to a 15 for example since I can't raise it to a 14.
18
16
14
10
10
10
After rolling, you ended up with:
16 +2 = 18
16
12 +2 = 14
12
12
10
Oh, okay. If the future boosts remain the same either way that changes things immensely.
I was comparing this:
Ability Boosts Level 5
At 5th level and every 5 levels thereafter, you boost four different ability scores. You can use these ability boosts to increase your ability scores above 18. Boosting an ability score increases it by 1 if it’s already 18 or above, or by 2 if it starts out below 18.to when you mentioned it in the earlier post as a single boost each time instead of four. By 20th level that would be 12 fewer boosts.
Yeah, that's a confirmed derp on my part. My brain occasionally skips words that I mean to type, but because they're on my mind, I see them as though they were typed out properly. Combine that with occasionally losing track of what I'm editing, and there you go.