K(Engineering) has lots of applications if you can convince the DM. Like... I had my character use her Architecture and Engineering to ask a DM what sort of layout she would expect for the building's interior, and to see if he'd give me bonuses to spot a secret room in the event it didn't make sense to her architect's eye. :)
What's rather odd about Lily is that she's actually going to steadily become a fairly skilled character. I'm surprised to see it that way, but Streets Mystery adds a lot of that! :)
I'd like to get another post up to point out how Lily views things in the next little bit, but the longer I put off recruitment stuff, the more it piles up. :P
K(Engineering) has lots of applications if you can convince the DM. Like... I had my character use her Architecture and Engineering to ask a DM what sort of layout she would expect for the building's interior, and to see if he'd give me bonuses to spot a secret room in the event it didn't make sense to her architect's eye. :)
Hadn't even thought of that, and after I go and think outside the box with Boros' Profession skill too.
As said, I'm all open in regards to creative uses for skills.
I did, in an answer post, state that profession-skills would carry their own boni with them. depending on wether they are ones you can actually pursue, or ones that may be applicable, depending on profession and situation.
Sometimes, even the most creative uses will not succeed, or suffer from rather high DC because it's slightly out there, but by all means, do try if you come up with an idea.
Ah, I thought that was in relation to down-time income earning as far as the Profession skills were concerned. Are you willing to go with the Craft skill rules from Unchained? Those seem like they'd allow a decent level of crafting to take place during short down-times.
On a related note that just now occured to me, Boros will be using Gunsmithing for anything relating to firearms, naturally, so how would that interact with the aforementioned rules, or even the Core crafting rules? Just for starters, since he no DC to work against, it'd be pretty hard to give him increased progress for high check results. And if I later get Craft (weapons) and use that and Craft (alchemy} for the relevant checks instead of Gunsmithing, would the gunsmith's kit constitute the required class tools for both skills (and would it be available as a masterwork version)?
Looking at the skills Boros has, and those he could use, I rather wish Intelligence had an effect on the number of available background skills. I could use my +2 modifier to stuff Craft (alchemy) and Craft (weapons) both into that category, then add Stealth, Knowledge (geography), and Knowledge (nature) using the spare skill ranks and favored class bonus.
And on the subject of favored class bonus, would you be willing to allow that to be retrained in addition to the other retraining options available? I chose the +1/4 grit points/level because Boros needs grit, but lacks the open feat slots for Extra Grit. At higher levels, with his increased Wisdom modifier granting more grit, it becomes a bit less useful.
Since we're asking questions, I'll ask one too, Juliette has both of the associated skulls with versatile performance sing, when she gets versatile performance can she retain those skills?
Well, a quick start posted in gameplay. Looks like the rest will have to wait until tomorrow. It's been a busy few days.
I am at work, as such, only a quick(well, not so, in retrospect) and dirty reply:
Boros, I will need to take a closer look at Unchained Crafting. Since Hotaru specifically pointed out it will be used in her game, I doubt it's something including gamebreaking elements.
As such, you can be cautiously optimistic in regards to it's inclusion.
To be honest, I'll have to check with the Gunsmithing stuff. I never got to deal with Firearms before, but hailing from Alkenstar it seemed fitting. I did believe with you attempting not to draw attention to yourself and the high cost for every shot, I'd have time to check up on it before it becomes relevant. As such, I'll have to postpone answering this part.
@Intelligence: It already affects skill points. You can happily invest your bonus skill points from high Int into background skills.
Retraining will generally be available, in most cases, as written on the SRD. In some cases, I will find it gamey, though, and as such, not allow it. Favored Class Boni is one such thing, though mostly in the other direction you mentioned. Otherwise you could easily pick up 3 HP, then at 4th level, opt to retrain into getting a Grit Point.(Same for Magus Arcana or Slayer Talent). Those partial boni are supposed to present a pretty long-term investment. In certain cases, I may be reasoned with, though. Just don't assume everything can always be retrained despite it generally being available.(Common sense, again...if you find yourself struggling telling me why the retraining makes sense/is possible/can be done, then chances are I won't be very fond of the suggestion, either...mostly, I want choices to matter, if people can swap back and forth in their builds depending on what Feat Chain could be online at this or that level, we degenerate into roll-play/mechanics-fetishism, not roleplay. That is why I require reasoning for retraining. If it's not overdone, it will usually pass.)
Since you bring it up: Of special note, possibly, is the "Retrain HP" option, which is available. Just pointing it out because the two options to choose were "half+1" or "GM roll", on level-up hp handling.(Maybe you want to play it safe, maybe someone wants to gamble, knowing they'd not be permanently screwed.)
@Juliette: And my answer is pretty identical. On versatile Performance, you can instantly retrain the associated skills, for free(I do admit I'd appreciate if you kind of show interest in a topic before suddently mastering it - e.g. if you retrain into Survival and Use Magic Device, you could show some interest in relevant aspects during the previous level. That also true for other instances where you suddenly sink a ton of skill points into a previously unused skill, though, not only for Versatile Performance)
Same things for other Class Features/Spells that duplicate a Feat/Spell you choose regularily. If either source would allow an alternate choice, you are allowed to re-do that choice.
I don't expect all of my skills to be maxed out at level 6 when versatile performance comes online for Juilette, so showing interest in skills shouldn't be difficult. A few skills, likely perform sing, stealth, and disguise will be maxed. Plus I may choose to spread out the extra points rather then focusing them.
Aye, I understand that. Just saying "instant mastery" is also ok, I just prefer if it's not completely sudden.
If you never worked with animals before, never were interested in any, then suddenly get 10 ranks and become a master trainer, that's weird - but yeah, I think you understood - just saying all options are open, including maxing a skill from 0 ranks, and I won't force fluff to support the pure mechanics, but I'd appreciate it if it is handled so. *shrug*
The short version of Unchained Crafting versus normal is as follows:
Base Crafting:
Rewards you for having exactly as much craft skill as is needed, and possibly 5 more.
Crafts simpler things faster (by a large degree).
Costs 1/3 the value in mats.
Has DCs that you generally just have to make up as you go. There are some... very open guidelines.
Has basically nothing for a Craft(Painter) or a Craft(Culinary), DM Fiat.
Is extremely rigid, despite the open guidelines.
Unchained Crafting:
Rewards you for investing in the skill that your character is good at.
Crafts complicated things faster (by a large degree).
Costs 1/4 the value in mats.
Gives you lists based on difficulty.
Has basic DCs and the amount of wealth you can meet by targeting a particular TN, as well as suggested objects to make. For example, non-masterwork heavy armor is DC 20. A clock is DC 25.
Has alternate kinds of materials that complicate things.
She can alternately press her luck, and roll. For every 5 she succeeds by, she'll gain an increment of money (moving from 1.5 gold to 3 gold to 4.5 gold).
She can also alternately press her luck, and roll, while trying to make a complex dish (DC 20). If she succeeds, she makes 3 gold, if she succeeds by 5 or more, she makes 6 gold. Succeeding by 10 or more is impossible at this time, but if she did, she would make 9 gold.
Lily decides to always target the 'Complex Dish' goal, as it's just outside of her usual range, which makes it a challenge.
If she rolls a 1 or 2, she fails by 5 or more and does something wrong, rendering the food inedible or a wasted effort (I was sure the mint would add a layer of smooth-ness to the egg drop soup...).
If she rolls a 3-11 she simply fails, catching her mistake in time, and can try again tomorrow (alternately, flavoring this as simply 'salvaging the failure'.)
If she rolls a 12-16, she succeeds at making her dish!
If she rolls a 17-20, she has a eureka moment, and creates something truly delicious that day.
I still suggest reading over it. You might wind up with a better idea than me, and might see something I didn't!
I am at work, as such, only a quick(well, not so, in retrospect) and dirty reply:
Boros, I will need to take a closer look at Unchained Crafting. Since Hotaru specifically pointed out it will be used in her game, I doubt it's something including gamebreaking elements.
As such, you can be cautiously optimistic in regards to it's inclusion.To be honest, I'll have to check with the Gunsmithing stuff. I never got to deal with Firearms before, but hailing from Alkenstar it seemed fitting. I did believe with you attempting not to draw attention to yourself and the high cost for every shot, I'd have time to check up on it before it becomes relevant. As such, I'll have to postpone answering this part.
The only truly relevant crafting Boros is likely to do involving firearms in the next few levels is making his firearm masterwork quality, which'll take 1 day, 150gp, and the gunsmith's kit with no check required. For ammunition, you actually have a ready-made solution: that cache, mentioned in Boros' background, which the Hellknights seized. Recovering a bit of the ammunition from it can give him a source of reloads if Boros absolutely needs some, while you still have time to look things over. Plus, Boros does have those swords, since he's very much aware that sometimes another shot just can't be had when it is needed.
If ranged is a necessity, nearly all of his feat choices--not coincidentally--work quite nicely with daggers and throwing axes. Handy, no? I accepted from the start that ammunition availability was the other side of the "cool, guns!" coin, and planned accordingly. So no need to rush on the crafting rules for Boros :D. He can, in a pinch, fill those loops in his bandoliers with a few small thrown melee weapons, and roll on.
@Intelligence: It already affects skill points. You can happily invest your bonus skill points from high Int into background skills.
I can!?! Awesome, updating the relevant character data right now! However, in the interests of character development, I'll put Craft (alchemy) only into the background skills for now, and with your permission leave the last rank(s) unspent until I can come up with a solid in-game reason and occasion to learn Craft (weapons).
(Now, just to be clear, Boros will end up with 4 + Int + human for adventuring skills, and 2 + Int for background skills. Correct?)
Retraining will generally be available, in most cases, as written on the SRD. In some cases, I will find it gamey, though, and as such, not allow it. Favored Class Boni is one such thing, though mostly in the other direction you mentioned. Otherwise you could easily pick up 3 HP, then at 4th level, opt to retrain into getting a Grit Point.(Same for Magus Arcana or Slayer Talent). Those partial boni are supposed to present a pretty long-term investment. In certain cases, I may be reasoned with, though. Just don't assume everything can always be retrained despite it generally being available.(Common sense, again...if you find yourself struggling telling me why the retraining makes sense/is possible/can be done, then chances are I won't be very fond of the suggestion, either...mostly, I want choices to matter, if people can swap back and forth in their builds depending on what Feat Chain could be online at this or that level, we degenerate into roll-play/mechanics-fetishism, not roleplay. That is why I require reasoning for retraining. If it's not overdone, it will usually pass.)
Since you bring it up: Of special note, possibly, is the "Retrain HP" option, which is available. Just pointing it out because the two options to choose were "half+1" or "GM roll", on level-up hp handling.(Maybe you want to play it safe, maybe someone wants to gamble, knowing they'd not be permanently screwed.)
Makes sense, now that you've explained it. That was probably the reasoning Paizo's devs had when they omitted favored class bonus retraining to begin with. That's alright then, I'll just take x4 levels of grit to start to get the full point, then switch to the skill rank. That, at least, shouldn't cause a rules issue.
This is why I try hard to make sure that my characters are made so that retraining shouldn't be needed for them. Makes things neater and easier all around. Though I'll likely be hitting that offered HP retraining a few times when the dice are being unpleasant to my HP rolls.
Hm, my understanding is that background skills gives a flat +2 points per level that must be spent on the group of skills designated as eligible. No ability bonuses. Wish it were so! Then Nissim could be more than a pseudo skill monkey.
Apologies for the long wait. There's plenty going on in work right now...thanks for the patience.
Regularily, I should be able to update much sooner during the day, but at times, it may be as late as today, or later.
@Boros: No, you get 4+Int+human +2background. I am saying that Int already affects your Skill Points, and you can spend those freely. Nothing is telling you to place them in adventuring skills. In fact, you can place ALL your skill points in backgrounds skills if you so please.
It's just that 2 of your skillpoints per level HAVE to go to background.
But you complained about Int not affecting the number of backgrounds skills, which is a logical consequence of Int already affecting the number of skill points as a whole. I meant to clarify that but seemed to confuse you further. I hope I managed to clear this up?
@Lily: Thanks for the summary, I will take a look at it.
Yup! Background skills are a flat +2 skills in things that are generally not adventurer abilities. They represent either things you grew up doing, or things you've learned to do after you grew up and forgot about your childhood.
Side note, I absolutely love the Background Skills system simply because I almost always want 'fluffy' skills and it's soul-crushing to choose between Perception (which can be the cause of someone's death!) and being a chef. :(
I don't often use retraining, personally. I will use it if I see a path for organic growth that I screwed up on. :)
Apologies for the long wait. There's plenty going on in work right now...thanks for the patience.
Regularily, I should be able to update much sooner during the day, but at times, it may be as late as today, or later.
@Boros: No, you get 4+Int+human +2background. I am saying that Int already affects your Skill Points, and you can spend those freely. Nothing is telling you to place them in adventuring skills. In fact, you can place ALL your skill points in backgrounds skills if you so please.
It's just that 2 of your skillpoints per level HAVE to go to background.But you complained about Int not affecting the number of backgrounds skills, which is a logical consequence of Int already affecting the number of skill points as a whole. I meant to clarify that but seemed to confuse you further. I hope I managed to clear this up?
@Lily: Thanks for the summary, I will take a look at it.
Well, that was why I double-checked to be sure. Fortunately, the erroneous changes are easy to revert. And how would an all-background skill character play, I wonder?
@Lily, which is an fully acceptable use for retraining.
Also, I used a "Hobby Skill" System since 3.0 days...where all characters could pick up 2 skills not on their class list(or craft/profession/knowledge), and always have character level ranks in them. Before "class skills bonus" that meant they were always a bit weaker then "full" skills, but close enough to be fully useable. So yeah, I'm very happy that background skills gave an official variant and it's no longer homebrew ;)
From the the gameplay thread:
Search for a Contact: Some people might have come to the protest in search of a mysterious contact said to be wearing a black leather glove on his right hand and no glove at all on the left. Attempt an Perception check to find them.
Boros' sobriquet, Black-Hand, offers the intriguing prospect of false hits with him as the target for this. Though not totally black, the years of ingrained powder residue that have stained his left hand might be mistaken as a glove from a distance, or with just a passing glimpse in a crowd, the switch from right to left being passed off as a misheard detail.
True that, although those people who think they got a hit would PROBABLY double-check before chatting someone up, since they need to get close anyway.
True that, although those people who think they got a hit would PROBABLY double-check before chatting someone up, since they need to get close anyway.
As you say, probably. There's bound to be someone who's in a rush...
Being in a rush can be lethal. Those people prone to rushing, unless PC's, will likely end up having an extended meeting with "natural selection" to discuss their continued existance under the local circumstance to which they failed to adapt.
I mean, who knows what Barzillai cooks up? The next proclamation could outlaw running in the streets threatening punishment of de-toe-efication? Arson, Murder and Jaywalking? - Much healthier to double-check things...
Also, apologies since I have not made this very clear in the gameplay thread....you are supposed to pick ONE option among those, to perform, per time intervall. The protest will move forward by itself, and other things will happen, but you get one of those actions per "round", and it's assumed you spend a while doing it.
@Boros: Here, at this time, it does not matter as much, but please refrain from reading other people's spoilers unless they share the info.
Hmm better check the boards once more before I go to sleep!
"Oh..."
Eh who need sleep anyway :P
Miranda: I've been trying to put up a post for something like 2 hours now. But I keep getting drowned in the mistakes I've made regarding recruitment. :(
Also, apologies since I have not made this very clear in the gameplay thread....you are supposed to pick ONE option among those, to perform, per time intervall. The protest will move forward by itself, and other things will happen, but you get one of those actions per "round", and it's assumed you spend a while doing it.
@Boros: Here, at this time, it does not matter as much, but please refrain from reading other people's spoilers unless they share the info.
Apologies about spoiler thing, I plead unfamiliarity with the etiquette involved. Did try to stick to things that Boros could conceivably see for himself, if he looked closely. Being a bit twitchy at the moment, I think he would have reason to look at least a second time at anything or anyone that stands out.
And sheesh, I sure did make some good rolls there! Probably gonna pay for those in combat later on...
And I think I already screwed up the *always post required rolls first* rule already. Sorry about that! (I'll try and keep it in mind for the future : ) )
I'm not sure anyone other then the loyalists needs to be silenced, I see no reason why Juilette would silence the other groups. She already fully expects a riot, heck she might be starting it at this point!
It's a good thing I used disguise before painting this huge target on my back... Though these kinds of actions were why I was considering a vigilante gestalt.
I'm currently working on a notepad version of Vigilante that's significantly less... annoying to work with.
Color coding!
Will be late again, today, before I can manage to do a proper update. Just letting you know.
Finally. Also, tactical map SHOULD work now? Could someone provide feedback and or everybody check if they can move themselves?
It's working perfectly for me!
Seems to work, but I'm on my phone and cannot be 100% sure as its near impossible to move anything on mobile.
Thanks. I also saw Varuzhan move and Hotaru, I'll assume it works, with the feedback I have. If someone runs into problems, let me know!
Yup, I'll pretty much be unable to move when I'm on my Kindle -but- I'll be more than happy to inform of where I'd like to move in the event it comes up. :)
On my tablet? Not a chance. Keeps bringing up the keyboard every time I try to move Boros' image using the touch screen. Or it tells me to install Google Drive, which I have already. Might need to dig up a mouse to try instead.
On my ancient PC, however, I can move Boros around easily. As long as that blasted browser doesn't lag my poor old beast into a coma, lol.
So mark me down as mostly capable of interacting with the map. I can't do it when I want to, but I can when I need to.
Yup! Same issue here, cept my old beast of a computer is still reliable. :)
On the bright side, you can see the full map, right? :)
Yup, the map is excellent!
The paranoid version of me expects that after the ground is covered in sleet, Brazillai goes "Release the Hounds" a la Mr. Burns, and everyone stumbles over themselves trying to escape.
Well, if that happened, we'd have a real lawsuit on our hands (somebody get Aldous!). Do you realize that he didn't even salt the sidewalks. He's clearly at fault for all of the injuries that would occur, and Aldous will clean out his vault.
Clearly, such a thing is for the good of the city.
Yup! Same issue here, cept my old beast of a computer is still reliable. :)
On the bright side, you can see the full map, right? :)
On my tablet? Sure, easy enough. And my PC is perfectly reliable, as long as running yet another game of my heavily-modded Baldur's Gate Trilogy install is all I ask of it. It's when modern browsers and ad-happy webpages get involved that it starts wheezing pathetically, lol.
Well, the important thing is that the map technically works as it should. You can always just state intent or exact positioning and be moved there.
...
And the hounds had small salt-shakers strapped to their spiked collars. They were SUPPOSED to be an anti-ice emergency response group. But since people did not clear the area, they had to voraciously chew their own path through the people to make sure the entire affected area was salted before somebody would get hurt...
You're dealing with Hell here. With Devils. Where do you think the souls of the most expert lawyers end up?
Sorta aiming for a specific rumour gathering here - who or what do they have that can summon local rain on us?
If you want to use the normal 'gather rumour' instead Miranda's total Diplo mod is +4 : )
---
And on the completely unrelated topic, good thing dogs can't climb. And that trees are seldom salted :P
Seeing others roll on checks they won't fail on a natural 1, I'm curious. Do you want us to expressly roll for such things when you request it, anyway?
Nope, never was a big fan of "autosucceed" or "autofail" on 1 or 20 respectively.
If a 20 is not enough to beat a DC and you roll one, you get to roll again and add it to the result.
There is no such thing in place for failure. If a DC is so low you could not possibly fail, there is no need to roll.
In the specific case with the weather: To anybody who knows a bit about nature, to basically any smart person, and even most stupid ones, it's pretty obvious that this sudden transition from warm autumn to sleet storm is suspect. It's a very low DC as result, and quite likely that some people(including both of you with it trained) are unable to actually fail on recognizing that :)
@Miranda: Noted, I'll keep it in mind when updating.
For the record, skills don't autofail or autosucceed on natural 1 and 20 - they are treated differently then everything else, you can succeed on a natural 1 and fail on a natural 20 for skills.
RAW of course, you are welcomed to rule otherwise.
@Knowledge checks - Miranda isn't trained in it, just taking advantage of the same thing as Juliette noted: DC 10 and lower checks can be made untrained : )
I know, Juliette, I just know it's a existant house rule. One I'm not a fan off.
Therefore, it is pointless to roll if even a 1 would be sufficient. The only reason I could imagine for someone to do so would be if they thought that house rule was in place.
The only deviation from RAW, as mentioned, is with the 20. If you roll a 20, you may roll again to do even better, and gain extraordinarily high values through combination of skill and luck.
It doesn't come up very often, and in many cases, an even better success won't help you at all, but in niche cases, it can make a difference...and those are the deeds that epic tales are sung about.
@Miranda: correct, as said, almost any smart person(and most stupid ones) will figure that one out(regardless of training) due to the low DC allowing untrained checks.
In the specific case with the weather: To anybody who knows a bit about nature, to basically any smart person, and even most stupid ones, it's pretty obvious that this sudden transition from warm autumn to sleet storm is suspect. It's a very low DC as result, and quite likely that some people(including both of you with it trained) are unable to actually fail on recognizing that :)
I'm gonna go ahead and say that, as a someone with more exposure to freak weather than any reasonable person could ever want thanks to those damnable Mana Wastes, Boros isn't going to sweat any unusual occurences unless they're really, glaringly obvious ones like; a blizzard at mid-summer in the desert; someone on the other side--that he can shoot in response--doing a lot of clearly magical stuff right before weather turns; or something that tries to eat him and his friends raining down out of the sky.
Sleet out of nowhere on a mid-autumn day that was previously on the hot side? Meh, cover up to prevent catching a chill, keep rolling ;D. As long as his precious powder stays dry, he'll wait it out.
Your call. If your character history suggests that this may be "usual" and you have not made enough experience in the rest of the world to understand what's happening as something strange, then by all means, omit the check.
Oh, I'll make the check in my next post, since I was so busy writing up the last one that I totally forgot to add the check until it was too late to edit.
I'm just suggesting that, unless the unusual weather is outright dangerous or something that Boros can actually affect in a meaningful way, he wouldn't let it faze him. The Mana Wastes are (based on what I've read so far) just too dangerous for any sort of reaction to weirdness that doesn't produce a useful result.
In fact, given how the Mana Wastes remind me of a combination of Deadlands and Gamma World, with a bit of steampunk thrown in for seasoning, I'd guess that panic or confusion when faced with weird stuff are the worst responses to have. It wastes precious time you should spend shooting at the weird stuff, running away from the weird stuff, or some combination of the two.
One more thing that comes to mind: While right now, we're in a setting where everybody gets to pick something to do, and as such, progressing in intervalls rather than "freeform" social interaction, I will, in general, wait for everybody to chime in before updating. That means even if you feel your character has nothing to contribute in a given situation, you should make a short post where you stand at the sideline and watch, or offer some encouraging words to whoever IS doing something.
The reason for this is that I saw a few other games I was in fail during prolonged "specific" interactions, where characters decided to "sit out", then had nothing to post for 2 weeks, didn't really catch up, had no idea what was going on from skimming a wall of text, and lost interest. As mentioned in the recruitment, I aim for a daily update, but every other day is fine, too. If someone's post is missing after ~48 hours from the last update, I'll progress with the next update. In some cases, I will try and bot if the intent seems clear, in others, they will get to retcon their action.
Again: the basic idea of this is to keep everybody involved and active. It also prevents deadlock-situations where a player is waiting on an update because they feel they have nothing to do, and GM is waiting for the player to do something because they believe there is very well something they COULD do. So, every time I update, do post in-character, even if it's just a two-liner stating you're leaning against the wall and watching what's happening.(obvious exception in case you are dead/down+stable...not compulsory in these cases - "I'm still laying on the floor in a puddle of my own blood, unconscious but stable" is purely optional...)
Thought I should state this in time, before we end up in parts of the game offering more freedom to the party. I think many of you are doing this naturally, but I thought it's still better to bring it up since it will be the modus operandi. So in short(=summary), I'll try and wait for everybody to post after I update, i will try and update as soon as everybody posted, if someone is missing, I will update about 48 hours after the last update took place.
Given Nissim's actions - I assume he was derailed from his plan to visit the halfling tree?
Otherwise I'll retcon in a 'hi!' at least : )
Also @Stealth/concealment:
By RAW you can make a Stealth check as soon as you have any concealment. The Illusion Occultist Implement grants 5% concealment (scaling upwards, but this is the amount Miranda has) which is still concealment and thus lets her make Stealth checks wherever and whenever she wants.
Now this is obviously very very nice for someone that likes stealth checks - but also a bit powerful and perhaps unintended. So before I use it at any critical moment I thought I'd bring it up and ask for your thoughts on the subject : )
Concealment and
The implement allows its bearer to distort his form and location, protecting him from harm. As a standard action, the bearer can gain a concealment miss chance equal to 5% for every point of mental focus invested in the implement (to a maximum of 5% + 5% for every 2 occultist levels you possess) until the next time the bearer makes an attack. If this miss chance reaches 50%, it doesn't increase further, but the bearer gains all the benefits of invisibility. Creatures with see invisibility, true seeing, or similar abilities ignore the miss chance from this ability.