I just gotta say, the map looks hilarious right now.
I just gotta say, the map looks hilarious right now.
Hilarious good or hilarious bad?
Kind of important for me to know -
Judging by the number of reinforcements, I'd say bad if people don't start moving.
Also, I don't think you revealed if my knowledge check gave me any indication of somewhere to lie low.
I didn't reveal that because we're not resolving yet - I'll let other people update their planned actions too.(otherwise we can do each of the rounds 1 by 1, just thought with pbp slow-downing we could fast-forward a bit)
I was under the impression that you were trying to figure out the best place you could think of, and head there...rather than "yay/nay", and your roll will represent how good your choice is.
As in, I assumed your intent was to pick what you think will be the best target location and get going. If I erred, do feel free to correct me-
You understood it right.
It's not hard for me to 'not guess at HD and such', as that's not really something for me to do. It's your job as the DM to make me realize I need to 'nope'. :) I do, definitely, like having access to the -x tallies, though, so we can see where we've been putting our attention. From a purely strategic standpoint we made so many mistakes in that. No big, though. The group will get more cohesive as things go. :)
@Miranda: TIL ability drain functions differently from ability damage.
We're not supposed to be a cohesive group at this point, just a bunch of random strangers that fate threw together, so I'd say we worked pretty well for people who aren't even aware of eachother's names entirely.
At least that's my reasoning behind not utilizing things like bardic performance, Juliette at this point isn't entirely certain she can trust all of these people.
It's also an IC reason why we get things like blocked lines of fire, as characters we aren't aware of eachother's tactics or abilities.
Oh wow. Paizo screwed me out of 3 gameplay posts. No new ones, all evening, just wanted to check state before going to bed once more and there's posts it didn't notify me about.
Never happened before -_- Maybe I accidently clicked the little X on my phone when I checked in(that x that's there to stop notifications)?
Either way, will resolve in morning.
@Lily: Right now, I'm trying to make it somewhat clear if it's wise to "nope" or not. There may be more...subtle...situations though.
In the end, you ARE rebels-to-be.
You are outnumbered, outgunned, and at least one of your opponents took a few levels in Chessmaster. There's Mythos creatures emerging at broad daylight, and an Asmodean/Chellish Inquisition hunting down opposition.(hey, you did appreciate I was going to change stuff around ^_^ first answer to my recruitment thread - I never stated those changes would make things EASIER for you...(don't worry though, I'll be fair as long as the group doesn't settle for stupid.))
Before you manage to turn things around, you should feel hunted, outclassed, and err on the side of caution when in doubt. If not, I'm failing at my job :)
No rush. Brain still feels like warm pudding. So not having to think about anything taxing, like game stuff, helps. As long as Boros is hauling butt away at his best speed, whether double move actions, running, or Torag's blessing teleporting him to safety, I'm good.
So I've been thinking about the escape we need to pull now. We know we have to hustle because we have people behind us. But we're also probably looking a little suspicious, I doubt we'd pass for shoppers and tourists on the streets...
What do you think about this? Nissim still has 5 or 6 rounds of Urban Grace left so without the rest of you slowing down at all, he could get out ahead and take point. We really don't want to run into anything unfriendly in front of us either. Nissim is uninjured, not dirty or bloodstained, and pretty average looking. He can just stay 40' or so ahead and use Message to communicate with you. If he sees something hinky, he'll just redirect the rest of you away from it down a different street.
Solid thinking, I'm all for it. And Boros will be too once it's mentioned.
I'm hoping Juliette knows of a place really close that the Asmodeus thugs won't search.
Would be great if there was somewhere they were contractually bound to not enter.
If all else fails, do a Ninja Turtle and take to the sewers, lol.
And ruin my perfect complexion?
What can I say, gotta' sacrifice for the cause. Plus, you know, not getting run through the Chelish prison system before our executions is a thing.
Nope. I will not be lured into TVTropes. NOPENOPENOPE.
If we really want to Miranda could go decoy mode with Pass Without Trace, Disguise Self and her Focus Power of basically Expeditious Retreat to slip away.
But that would be really hairy if they have ranged attacks or something like that! And a bit troublesome for her to find the rest of the party ...
Congrats, you made a 1-eyed recurring enemy!
Well at least he won't have to keep reintroducing himself every time he shows up.
Congrats, you made a 1-eyed recurring enemy!Well at least he won't have to keep reintroducing himself every time he shows up.
To say nothing of the horrid jokes that empty hole makes possible now.
Congrats, you made a 1-eyed recurring enemy!Well at least he won't have to keep reintroducing himself every time he shows up.
Aye, he'll get a name and a theme song... +10 Epic Nemesis-ness, -5 Depth Perception(but a surly eyepatch.)
A word of warning...if you cut of a hand and a leg in the next two encounters, he'll evolve into a pirate...with a parrot familiar delivering touch spells...
Congrats, you made a 1-eyed recurring enemy!Well at least he won't have to keep reintroducing himself every time he shows up.Aye, he'll get a name and a theme song... +10 Epic Nemesis-ness, -5 Depth Perception(but a surly eyepatch.)
A word of warning...if you cut of a hand and a leg in the next two encounters, he'll evolve into a pirate...with a parrot familiar delivering touch spells...
Gads. Aim for the heart everyone.
Congrats, you made a 1-eyed recurring enemy!Well at least he won't have to keep reintroducing himself every time he shows up.Aye, he'll get a name and a theme song... +10 Epic Nemesis-ness, -5 Depth Perception(but a surly eyepatch.)
A word of warning...if you cut of a hand and a leg in the next two encounters, he'll evolve into a pirate...with a parrot familiar delivering touch spells...
I'm almost tempted to make these mutilations happen, just to see if you'll go through with it, lol.
Congrats, you made a 1-eyed recurring enemy!Well at least he won't have to keep reintroducing himself every time he shows up.Aye, he'll get a name and a theme song... +10 Epic Nemesis-ness, -5 Depth Perception(but a surly eyepatch.)
A word of warning...if you cut of a hand and a leg in the next two encounters, he'll evolve into a pirate...with a parrot familiar delivering touch spells...
I'm almost tempted to make these mutilations happen, just to see if you'll go through with it, lol.
You know he will.
You're right. Strangely, this makes the prospect more tempting, not less.
@Mordred: Could we get a pinpoint on the Kintargo map that shows us where we're at in the city now? Doesn't have to be a dot on the map necessarily, just something visual or text to help navigate. It looks like The Maiden's Head isn't listed on the Player's Guide map.
Use the map only as an overall guideline. Since Kintargo has a larger population, there's more houses, more streets, more alleyways...that being said, I may need to replace that with an editable map.
You went to the lower right from Aria Park Protest in front of J3, fled through the streets and had your run-in with the Asmodeans in the area above O13(where they "filtered" out greycloaks moving towards Aria Park using these alleyways instead of one of the main streets). Fleeing from the scene(which was actually upside down...you entered from north, which was bottom on the combat map), you went towards the area above O11. And that street running north from O11 passing Aria Park and the Opera House is the busy street you have to cross to get to the Maiden's Head, which is not the corner building, but also not diagonally opposite to the park. Imagine between those two buildings there was space for another large building, and thats your current target, because it's not in the area with intense patrols, close by and discreet.
(Again, the houses on the map are all oversized. Consider the Opera House(since you've been there). A whole frigging Opera House. Now I don't know about you guys, but my house is nowhere near as large as even a quarter of an opera house. So imagine each of those roofs on the map actually represents a whole cluster of buildings, a block, so to say, with further alleyways, and the paths shown on the map are those mainly used and dividing blocks(in a modern day setting, streets, rather than walkways))
Hope that helps.
Okay, all that makes good sense.
I was wondering because depending on direction travelled etc. We might be looking at different shelter options after the Maiden's Head. I hadn't picked a particular spot, but I've placed the Siverto shop in Old Kintargo and, if we have gone that direction it might need to be considered as an option.
I was figuring it to be somewhere in the vicinity of O8-O10, not terribly far and accessible by back streets that Nissim knows well. It also has the advantages of medical supplies, friendly neighbors, and that it wouldn't look too strange to bring a "patient" there.
But man would the parents be pissed off :)
Had this pop into my head just now;
Nissim: Yes mom.
NM: Did you get those fresh leeches like I asked?
N: Not yet mom.
NM: Who's that with you?
N: Just some friends, mom.
NM: Friends? Do I know them?
N: No mom, these are new friends.
NM: Oh. Well have them sit and start some tea, your father and I will be down to meet them.
N: That's okay, mom, they can't stay.
NM: Nonsense, honey, there's always time for tea (a sentiment Boros would agree with).
N: Really mom, they're just here for a little bit.
Nissim's father: Then all the more reason to meet them now. Now do as your mother asked.
NM: Are any of these friends unwed young ladies, by chance?
N: *prays for the ground to swallow him and end his suffering as the other rebels start to snicker at him*
On a more serious note, I've decided that Boros' gun needs improvement. When I chose that particular model, I was under the impression that the free gun granted to gunslingers was a basic model with a set maximum gp value.
This is not, in fact, the case, but retconning my choice is just horribly meta, even if it would be allowed. So instead, I'd like to work out a method by which I can have Boros make upgrades to his existing weapon. The upgrade path would be pistol > pepperbox pistol (primitive six-shooter that uses six loaded barrels in a hand-rotated assembly instead of a modern revolving drum loaded with shots) > revolver.
Still a bit out from that bug, so all I have figured out now is that Knowledge (engineering) needs to be involved some way, and that the upgrades should have a minimum base cost equal to the difference between the price of the old gun and price of the the new gun, with maybe a bit extra to cover R&D. And, of course, the gun is out of service while the work is being done.
Success means the modification went through as intended.
Failure, but by a small margin (5 or so?) means the upgrade is applied, but incorrectly (say, a reduced range, in 5-foot increments; a range penalty at the first increment; additional -1 penalty to increments beyond the first; increased chance of misfire; or something along those lines). The flaw may be corrected, with a second check equal to the first, with increased DC for the failure itself.
Failure beyond that margin is treated as usual, with a loss of materials and time. Further, a second check must be made to see whether the base gun takes damage as a consequence of failing the upgrade.
Whether successful or not, the work would remove any existing masterwork quality the weapon has, requiring it be added again. As a result of the modifications, while the upgraded weapon is mechanically identical to the model listed in the rules for things like damage, range, and whatnot, Boros would be the only person able to wield it effectively; in addition to any non-proficiency penalty, anyone other than Boros would suffer an additional attack penalty of -1 or -2 for the first upgrade, and -2 or -4 for the second upgrade.
Miranda has an apartment also! But it isn't that big - and most of the furniture is properly sized for her which may be sorta annoying for everyone else :P (Well except her bed because I figured if you can easily get a bed twice your size one would probably do that. And a human sized rocking chair for guests/therapeutic purposes). Also since she lives in north-northeastern part of town (assuming N is straight up - too lazy to check atm :P) one would need to cross the bridge. Which could be troublesome!
Also @Boros:
At 1st level, a gunslinger gains one of the following firearms of her choice: blunderbuss, musket, or pistol.
So you didn't miss out : )
Phew, that is a relief. I did read a limitation, just not the one I thought. That'll teach me to read rules while I'm not totally together in my head, lol.
Had this pop into my head just now;
Nissim's mom from upstairs: Nissim, honey, is the you?
Nissim: Yes mom.NM: Did you get those fresh leeches like I asked?
N: Not yet mom.
NM: Who's that with you?
N: Just some friends, mom.
NM: Friends? Do I know them?
N: No mom, these are new friends.
NM: Oh. Well have them sit and start some tea, your father and I will be down to meet them.
N: That's okay, mom, they can't stay.
NM: Nonsense, honey, there's always time for tea (a sentiment Boros would agree with).
N: Really mom, they're just here for a little bit.
Nissim's father: Then all the more reason to meet them now. Now do as your mother asked.
NM: Are any of these friends unwed young ladies, by chance?
N: *prays for the ground to swallow him and end his suffering as the other rebels start to snicker at him*
Funny thing is that Nissim DID promise to bring something home, a portrait of Queen Abrogail II for the shop. :p
: )
Also Miranda is going to have to pick up a lead-lined box somewhere. Seems sorta dangerous to carry around a potential Scrying link. But also, once we get that sort of things in the far future, we have a sweet link to our soon-to-be nemesis :P
Park it in a privy in the meantime?
Side note. Yes, I'm very much aware of Lily's lack of awareness. I felt it was too good of an opportunity to pass up for her obliviousness. :)
@Considering people's homes: I think there's some english proverb or something stating "Don't shit where you eat!"
Of course, you are welcome to risk things by involving your private home or family, just be willing to accept the drama when the inquisition stands at the doorstep with a trio of mastiffs and ready to kill those who would deny them entry, subsequently seizing the property for harboring enemies of the state.
(Not saying that would happen, but if you checked the combat map again,...I suppose it depends on how confident you are about having cleaned everything up leaving no trace of smell for the hounds-)
@Boros: As miranda aptly pointed out, the selection is very limited at the beginning.
Also, there is a very strict distinction between "Early Firearms" and "Modern Firearms". Including things like "how many range increments for touch attack" and "how is reloading handled".
I am fine with upgrading to another early firearm, such as the Pepperbox, if you so choose. But Advanced Firearms(such as Revolver) are not available.
Reloading as a free action, a weapon that will target touch on full iteratives over 100 feet with a x4 crit modifier and deeds stacked on? Whole different level(thats when people no longer use bows because they are clearly inferior).
We can possibly revisit this in the future, down the line, if I feel your performance in combat is sub-par compared to the others, but you should not expect your build to depend on it. Both your "Party role" definition and your plan for sword+pistol style imply switch hitting, so I doubt it is a problem you can't single-mindedly focus on shooting a stream of bullets.
@Miranda: What, you'd suspect me of letting them scry on you with that thing? Why, I'd never...okay, good thinking on your part :P
Oh, don't think I was intending to get a revolver with two weeks of work by level 3. The way I picture it is pepperbox at about level 3-6, after Boros works out how to go about converting the weapon into one (the level spread depends on how much downtime he has free to work it out between rebel ops}. That's an early firearm, so he knows they're possible. Yeah, he could just build one new and use that, but it wouldn't be his gun.
Then, after a few levels noodling about with his new piece, he starts figuring on how to improve the clunky reload aspect, making more Knowledge check to gradually figure out a rotating drum for ammo combined with a single barrel. At around 15th level, he'd make the needed breakthroughs.
And no, not something I'm basing the build on, just idle musing while I'm sick as a dog. Aside from the target vs. touch AC thing, pretty much all of the revolver's abilities can be duplicated with the right combination of items, feats, and magic enhancements as it is. It's just that Boros would, as a result of where in Golarion he's from, see magic as the second option instead of the first as everyone else does. Magic on a sword or armor? Sure, because if it fails somehow, you still have the base item to use. Maybe not as effectively as when it was enchanted, but a sharp edge is a sharp edge, and so on. Magic on a firearm that becomes critical to the firearm's function? Not the optimal choice there.
Finally, Boros already knows that bows are clearly inferior. Just ask him, he'll tell you all about it, lol. But in summation? Bows are used by the unfortunate, ignorant masses who are too poor, too foreign, or too clueless to get a proper Alkenstar-made firearm. He pities these benighted primitives, and considers himself akin to a missionary among them, sent to spread the word of the gun.
As for the tracking dogs? The first time he sees that in action, Boros will be cranking out scentbreaker by the case. He'll drag anyone else with a lick of alchemical ability in to help, if he can. Boros has been hunted by scent-trackers before, and his response to that is short, to the point, and indescribably blasphemous and profane.
I differ on everything being able to be duplicated, or I simply have not considered some combinations. Alas, if it is possible to do that, as you claim, then there's no worry about Revolver not being available, right?
What I mean is that while it may not be your primary choice, at least it will have feat/magic enhancement taxes attached which cannot be used to FURTHER enhance it.(Unless you mean to say that with magic being only a second option means you intend to NOT make your pistol magical...if the revolver at most is masterwork, never becoming a magical weapon of any kind, thats a whole different story-)
@Bows: Only a private opinion, there. There was a very clear reason why for long periods, people brought multiple loaded guns to a fight, rather than opt to reload them during the battle. Or the fact that the highly inaccurate fire from muskets meant incredibly penetration but low effective range(while, in comparison, long bows could be used very effectively for volleys).
All in all, your gun IS exotic here, and it IS early-issue. Alkenstar is NOT on the verge of developing machine guns and self-propelled artillery. A single man, far from their research laboratories, will not single-handedly advance firearm technology by what took more than a century in real life, within a couple months.
Again: Power to the player, I'm all for you people realizing your dreams, but when things start breaking, I need to pull the brakes.
Weaponry, on the whole, is a very...delicate balance, to keep power levels somewhat in line. If a Swordsmith asked me if he could create a single-handed weapon with 18-20 crit range and a x3 modifier doing 1d10 damage using the "Create New Weapon" rules, the answer would be a resounding NO no matter how reasonable his reasoning could be. An early era gunsmith opting to make advanced/modern firearms seems to have the same potential for outclassing his companions.
As said, if it is felt to be necessary for you to be competitive, the issue can be revisited in the future. If it is felt that you ARE competitive as is, the increase in power level would likely result in breaking balance.
Do consider the setting specifics:
Firearms and gunslingers are not for every campaign, and even if you are excited about introducing firearms into your campaign, you should still make a decision about how commonplace they are. The following are broad categories of firearm rarity and the rules that govern them. Pathfinder’s campaign setting uses the rules for emerging guns, which is also the default category of gun rarity.
Regular, but not applicable: No Guns: If you do not want guns in your campaign, simply don’t allow the rules that follow. The Pathfinder Roleplaying Game plays perfectly well without them.
This is where we are: Very Rare Guns: Early firearms are rare; advanced firearms, the Gunslinger class, the Amateur Gunslinger feat, and archetypes that use the firearm rules do not exist in this type of campaign. Firearms are treated more like magic items—things of wonder and mystery—rather than like things that are mass-produced. Few know the strange secrets of firearm creation. Only NPCs can take the Gunsmithing feat.
THIS is our setting. Firearms are exceedingly rare. You ARE allowed to be Gunslinger(which is already a boon), and you ARE allowed to have gunsmithing(mostly to keep yourself supplied) - you are NOT supposed to break the setting, saturate the area with cannons and guns, or try to cheat around tech level.
This would be near Alkenstar...not here: Emerging Guns: Firearms become more common. They are mass-produced by small guilds, lone gunsmiths, dwarven clans, or maybe even a nation or two—the secret is slipping out, and the occasional rare adventurer uses guns. The baseline gunslinger rules and the prices for ammunition given in this chapter are for this type of campaign. Early firearms are available, but are relatively rare. Adventurers who want to use guns must take the Gunsmithing feat just to make them feasible weapons. Advanced firearms may exist, but only as rare and wondrous items—the stuff of high-level treasure troves.
Note that even with this level of availability, advanced firearms are RARE:Commonplace Guns: While still expensive and tricky to wield, early firearms are readily available. Instead of requiring the Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat, all firearms are martial weapons. Early firearms and their ammunition cost 25% of the amounts listed in this book, but advanced firearms and their ammunition are still rare and cost the full price to purchase or craft.
Just nope:Guns Everywhere: Guns are commonplace. Early firearms are seen as antiques, and advanced firearms are widespread. Firearms are simple weapons, and early firearms, advanced guns, and their ammunition are bought or crafted for 10% of the cost listed in this chapter. The Gunslinger loses the gunsmith class feature and instead gains the gun training class feature at 1st level.
Oh, the thing about how Boros views bows was purely meant for a laugh. Kind of a play on how some people consider anyone who doesn't use iOS/Android/Windows/Mac/Linux/Blu-ray/etc. to obviously be a complete backwoods primitive who can barely understand fire and indoor plumbing because they use something other than the "One True Whatever." It was not meant to be his actual opinion.
Boros is a soldier, he uses what works. If that's a gun, or a bow, or a rock to head, that's what he'll use.
And no, not worried about the revolver being available. As I said, just idle musing. Something to keep my brain busy when I'm too busy coughing to get the sleep I crave instead. It's this or think about how lousy I feel, which makes the lousy feeling worse, lol. This also generates some interesting discussion for me to ponder over. Since I'll give running a game a shot in the (very distant) future, picking the brain of someone experienced is handy.
@Reloading Pistol easily - Here you go!
Might take some saving to afford it though :3
And as a bonus since Gnomes have a certain reputation no-one might question why this particular one needs a lead-lined pot right now and hurry! :P
(@Shitting/Eating - Which is why the number of visitors will also be limited by the castings of Pass Without Trace Miranda can cough up :P)
(Which is 2/day now - but from the same pool as Disguise Self so 1 is gone already ...)
Oh, it's not a first choice but we can't stay at the Maiden's Head indefinitely. We'll need to go somewhere else, and I'm not aware of any options at this point.
It does help a great deal that the guy had a potion of CLW with him. We might not have to wait overnight to get him conscious and mobile. Until he is we have a very big problem.
If they have dogs that are that good at scent tracking (they aren't in the real world, urban environments are very bad for preserving scent trails but there's always magic I guess) then not much point in trying to evade them anyway. I'm actually a mastiff owner btw and they're not particularly good trackers. Certain types of hounds and retrievers are what you want for that.
In fact, the mastiffs are in the Opera House getting cuddled by Thrune.
On the map, you will see that they are actually using insanity wolf-hounds to do their tracking. They have a very acute sense of smell.
(They are also insanely good at biting...hence their name)
(Also, true about urban environs...but your trail is very fresh, and there is little other traffic in the small alleys you use to evade further patrols)
@Reloading Pistol easily - Here you go!
Might take some saving to afford it though :3
Some is a bit of an understatement.
In fact, the mastiffs are in the Opera House getting cuddled by Thrune.
On the map, you will see that they are actually using insanity wolf-hounds to do their tracking. They have a very acute sense of smell.
(They are also insanely good at biting...hence their name)
Yep, lots and lots of scentbreaker. Lots.
Miranda's Wand Wishlist already included Shield and Mage Armour as to not get stabbed, but perhaps Pass Without Trace would be most efficient for that purpose :P
@Expensive-as-heck-gun - Indeed : ) But perhaps it can provide guidance to craft a similar magic gun but with perhaps only a +1 or +2 enchantment bonus?
But this one is probably more attainable : )
I'm not sure if the Swift Action conflict too much with something for you, but when I put together a sword-n-gun barbarian (Techno-something archetype?) I found it really nice! Then again the plan was basically only to shoot once first to proc the Opening Volley feat (also maybe something for you?) for some sweet Knockdown action!
Another cheap-ish option is this one. Personally I find that while it looks and feels really cool, an extra will save per round may turn out to be annoying. Especially since Close Up and Deadly might be affected by it.
Ah, it's so nice that Barzillai Thrune and I share some common ground. :p
Thanks for the nifty new token. Certainly is nicer than the book carrying mouse!
You're welcome, Nissim. The one you linked on the profile was not taking well to becoming sized down, too little contrast and colors, unrecognizable, so I picked another of what I believe to be the same character.
@Miranda: It's sweet you try and help out, but the basic idea is clear. No one-handed weapon that can endlessly full-attack without drawback. Because otherwise it's very simply to dual-wield that one-handed weapon and just keep shooting...and dual-wielding ranged weapons was something they very clearly attempted to avoid in pathfinder(what with weapon cords being turned into a swift action...incidentally after I asked if an inquisitor build I made dual-wielding hand crossbows(used about a ton of free actions each round) would be legal on rules forum and received several FAQ tags)
As you say, I consider firearms to be a potentially very strong opening volley before swapping over to melee. If one reaches a point where you have no reason to swap over to melee(which, for guns, is countered by the reloading tax or other drawbacks(like the will save or min-damage one)), then somethings broken in that by the crit multiplier and touch AC targetting(not even starting with deeds) they are vastly superior over the alternatives, something only supposed to happen in a higher tech setting.(because otherwise there's be no reason not to use them on a very very broad basis).
Hence as said, I'll adapt to you guys there. Just keep that in mind, none of you are acting in a vacuum.
There's actually a feat specifically for dual-wielding guns, Gun Twirling though it's harder to use then the prenerf weapon cords.
As far as the discussion of bows being inferior to guns, I have quite a few things I can do with a bow that are near impossible with a gun at later levels, even more-so if I decide to go into Arcane Archer.
I'm not trying to make the problem go away - I'm just saying one can throw piles of gold at it to make it better :P